Crossbow expert: offhand damage?

[The Shadowdove]

Hey forum-lurkers,

We have two fighters in our adventure league game at the local comic store. One is dual wielding melee weapons and the other is dual wielding crossbows.

I've seen the erratta regarding how the loading of hand crossbows is handled. That's all very clear.

However, I am unsure about how the damage should be calculated.

A dual wielding meleer needs the the dual-wielding fighting style and duel wielding feat to gain their modifier with offhand damage.

A hand crossbow build needs crossbow expert as a feat, but does not need the dual wielding fighting style to gain their dex modifier to damage?

So does that mean that the dual wielding hand crossbow expert build is overall better due to higher hit rate with the archery fighting style?

I guess it works like this.

Crossbow expert + archery fighting style:
+2 to hit
Dex to onhand and offhand damage.
Better range.
Other feat bonuses.

Dual wielding fighting style + dual wielding feat:
+1 ac
Dex or STR to onhand and offhand damage.
Can now use 1d8 non-light weapons
Other feat bonuses.

Now it's range and accuracy vs potential damage gain and +1 ac?

I'm just trying to understand how the feats and fighting styles benefit both of these players differently so I'm not calculating anything incorrectly.

Thanks in advance,

Dove.

[MeeposFire]

Duel wielding crossbows is redundant since you get the bonus action attack with crossbow expert with just one crossbow. Using a second crossbow can work but with no ability to reload at will it is far less useful than going with one crossbow and doing it that way.

As for stat to damage if you are using the bonus action attack from the crossbow expert feat you get dex to damage because the general rule is that when you make a weapon attack you add the stat to damage. Two weapon fighting is the exception to this but remember it is two weapon fighting NOT attacks granted by a bonus action that this rule applies to.

Essentially using the crossbows with the fighting style and the feat deals almost the same damage as two weapon fighting style and feat but with better range and accuracy (also only need one weapon rather than two which can be important for magic weapons).

Crossbows do pull ahead once the archer decides to take sharp shooter.

[Mortis_Elrod]

yes? i think this checks out. the crossbow wielder isn't using the two weapon fighting, hes using the feat, which doesn't say he changes the damage calculation from the normal. So yes.

[Crgaston]

Crossbow Expert is generally ruled as letting you make a Bonus Action attack with the same hand crossbow you use for your regular attack action. So, you're not technically dual wielding them, just getting an extra attack at the cost of a feat. But if that's how you want to imagine it, no biggie. And yes, it looks like you understand the mechanics perfectly.

[Sicarius Victis]

Just FYI, the dual-wielding melee Fighter doesn't need the feat. They just need the FS, and even then they only need it to add the damage to a single attack.

[The Shadowdove]

Just FYI, the dual-wielding melee Fighter doesn't need the feat. They just need the FS, and even then they only need it to add the damage to a single attack.

But without the fear they can only dual wield with a light weapon in both hands, right ?

[The Shadowdove]

Crossbow Expert is generally ruled as letting you make a Bonus Action attack with the same hand crossbow you use for your regular attack action. So, you're not technically dual wielding them, just getting an extra attack at the cost of a feat. But if that's how you want to imagine it, no biggie. And yes, it looks like you understand the mechanics perfectly.

Thanks for clarifying.

It seems kind of redundant letting someone use a bonus action for an offhand crossbow attack with the main hand weapon, but that's how it reads.

It's almost like allowing someone to use the dueling fighting style by attacking, then tossing the weapon into their offhand and making an attack that gains the +2 damage bonus.

[Sicarius Victis]

But without the fear they can only dual wield with a light weapon in both hands, right ?

There's an average damage difference of one point. That's really not enough to matter.


Thanks for clarifying.

It seems kind of redundant letting someone use a bonus action for an offhand crossbow attack with the main hand weapon, but that's how it reads.

It's almost like allowing someone to use the dueling fighting style by attacking, then tossing the weapon into their offhand and making an attack that gains the +2 damage bonus.

Except it isn't an offhand attack. It's a bonus action attack with a crossbow. Nothing about it is even particularly related to TWF, except for the fact that it lets you attack using a bonus action. And that isn't enough of a similarity to classify both of them as the same thing.