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View Full Version : Help analyze a choice for my Bard?



Alejandro
2017-02-21, 12:31 PM
So, I am close now to my first attribute raising/feat taking point. Data:

- I'm the only primary caster in the group, as a cleric 1/bard 3 (Lore). Everyone else are things like monks, rangers, arcane trickster, barbarian, so some have limited spells.
- We have no wizard at all, and no dedicated cleric.
- I do the large majority of our healing, which makes me glad I took that one Life Cleric level to start with.
- I have a Charisma of 16.
- I'd like to obtain a familiar, if possible, but know that I can't do it without taking a feat for it (I don't have the INT to multiclass into wizard, and I don't want to spend Magical Secrets on Find Familiar.)

My options:

- Raise Charisma 2 points, to 18.
- Take the Magic Initiate feat, Wizard, and learn Find Familiar and two more wizard cantrips
- Take the Ritual Caster feat and learn Find Familiar and something else

What might be the best choice? More cantrips are always good, but my INT is 10, so attack roll ones are not as good of an idea, and my GM does not like us taking the melee cantrips from SCAG. We have no wizard at all, so any spellbooks or scrolls with rituals in them we find are wasted to us, so Ritual Caster might be useful for that, but it seems as if there aren't really that many wizard rituals in the first place.

solidork
2017-02-21, 12:49 PM
I took Ritual Caster: Wizard on my Arcane Trickster and it was pretty awesome. Wizards actually get the most rituals out of everyone, and I used almost all of the ones I got at least once (never used Feign Death or Gentle Repose). Find Familiar was great even though I didn't pick an owl to use in combat.

Sans.
2017-02-21, 01:16 PM
Actually, wizard rituals are pretty legion. (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?471722-Know-Your-Rites-A-Guide-to-Ritual-Casting-(Oraibi))

Specter
2017-02-21, 01:41 PM
The only reason to take Magic Initiate over Ritual Caster for Find Familiar is if you want a damage cantrip like Booming Blade for your attacks, otherwise the cantrips will be bad. And anyway, the AT should take Find Familiar. I suggest +2CHA in the end.

Alejandro
2017-02-21, 01:43 PM
Actually, wizard rituals are pretty legion. (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?471722-Know-Your-Rites-A-Guide-to-Ritual-Casting-(Oraibi))

I count 15 to 17 of them?

Alarm: Some use, but when we have access to Rope Trick, it doesn't seem that useful any more.
Comprehend Languages: Useful.
Detect Magic: I can already cast it as a ritual, as a Cleric.
Find Familiar: Great.
Identify: Useful.
Illusory Script: Not sure when this would ever get used.
Tenser's Disc: Neat, but not sure how often it would ever actually get used.
Unseen Servant: Useful, but the party arcane trickster can already do this.
Gentle Repose: Not sure this would ever get used.
Feign Death: Ditto.
Leomund's Tiny Hut: Great.
Phantom Steed: Not that great for a party of PCs. Not sure what I would do with it alone.
Water Breathing: Either great, or doesn't get used, depending on the adventures.
Contact other Plane: My INT isn't that great and I am not proficient in the save. Pass.
Rary's Telepathy: Has uses, I suppose, but not super valuable.
Drawmij's Summons: Too expensive to cast and I'm not sure what item as a bard I would need to summon so badly.

Edit: As for the Arcane Trickster, the player thinks that familiars are useless to have because they have low HP. I kind of want to show the player they are mistaken. :)

Aaron Underhand
2017-02-21, 02:06 PM
Played a similar bard myself. As the only arcane caster in the party, I took a level of wizard. This gave me all first level rituals, and it was fantastic. Of course, you've already done the dip to cleric, so another multiclass is contra indicated. I would go Ritual Caster in your circumstance. The party needs utility, and it will save you spells known, and prepared cleric slots. Detect magic doesn't need to be prepared - one extra slot, Leomund's Tiny Hut doesn't need to be a known bard spell - another known spell! Find familiar and unseen servant - disposable scouting and trap triggers - save the AT spell slot for when he really needs it.

The others are utility and situational but just ask - is a feat for a familiar and another known third level spell (Leomund's Tiny Hut) worth it? May not be optimal, but it is fun!

solidork
2017-02-21, 02:07 PM
Alarm - It's not only useful for taking rests. We use it a lot to make sure things don't sneak up behind us in dungeons.

Detect Magic - True, but that also means you have to prepare it. If you got it from Ritual Caster you could prepare a different Cleric spell in its place.

Tenser's Disk - We got a lot of use out of it because we only had 3 party members and two of us dumped Str so we had issues lugging all of our treasure around.

Water Breathing - Knowing this ritual opens up a potentially huge number of alternative strategies.

Rary's Telepathic Bond - Now you don't have to fight against PC hive-mind quite so much.

Herobizkit
2017-02-21, 04:11 PM
Pound for pound, taking Ritual Caster (Wizard) is likely your best bet. Let's just hope that your players have the patience to wait around while you cast them. :)

Idkwhatmyscreen
2017-02-21, 04:21 PM
Ritual Caster is a solid feat while you lack a wizard. More spells = Profit

Desamir
2017-02-21, 04:35 PM
Alarm: Some use, but when we have access to Rope Trick, it doesn't seem that useful any more.
Tenser's Disc: Neat, but not sure how often it would ever actually get used.
Unseen Servant: Useful, but the party arcane trickster can already do this.
Gentle Repose: Not sure this would ever get used.
Water Breathing: Either great, or doesn't get used, depending on the adventures.
Rary's Telepathy: Has uses, I suppose, but not super valuable.

Alarm vs. Rope Trick: Rope Trick costs a spell slot and only lasts an hour. Alarm has other uses besides resting.

Tenser's Floating Disk: This can come in handy if you stumble across a massive treasure trove or heavy artifact and need to haul it back to town in one trip.

Unseen Servant: It's almost never worth spending a slot on this, having it as a ritual makes it far more useful.

Gentle Repose: This is mostly useless as a ritual, since the lowest-level resurrection spell (Revivify) has a 1-minute time limit, and the next one (Raise Dead) gives you 10 full days. I use it on my Necromancer to keep corpses from decomposing.

Water Breathing: It'll probably never come up, but as a 24-hour ritual, there's little reason not to use it.

Rary's Telepathic Bond: Gives you an in-character explanation for all that combat table-talk you do anyways. :smalltongue: