Could You Make A Wrestler In 3.5?

[Scorponok]

In either the classic Greco Roman or even the WWE wrestler such as Hulk Hogan, Macho Man Randy Savage or Stone Cold Steve Austin? I'd like to create an NPC that rushes the player, grapples them, then does a move such as a suplex or pile-driver. Or even jump and kick with both feet, or clothesline.

One of my former players is a huge wrestling fan, and would probably love this. I'm looking for actions characters can do after their grapple check succeeds. Is it opposed STR checks to resist the suplex, or is there another mechanic for this sort of thing? What about damage and what die it is?

[Uncle Pine]

Setting Sun specialist with a cool-looking mask?

[gorfnab]

1. Barbarian - Spirit Totem: Lion ACF (CC), Whirling Frenzy ACF (UA), City Brawler ACF (Drg#349) , Skilled City Dweller (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) (trade Ride for Tumble)
2. Barbarian - Wolf Totem ACF (UA)

You could choose Ferocity (CityS) instead of Whirling Frenzy.

After that Setting Sun and maybe Tiger Claw based Swordsage like Uncle Pine suggested.

Feats: Improved Grapple, Battle Jump, Stand Still, Knockdown, Combat Reflexes, Snap Kick, Robilar's Gambit etc.

[Shinzutalos]

I've played quite a few wrestlers in Pathfinder which is close to 3.5 in my opinion. Anyway, if you don't mind implementing house rules, my group came up with a system in which if you succeeded in a grapple check against your opponent you could release said grapple in the same round in order to perform a wrestling move such as a suplex, piledriver, etc., and deal damage with that. If I recall correctly, the damage we agreed on is 1d8+Str mod with additional effects based on what move you used for example, a piledriver would stun the target for 1 round, a suplex would leave the opponent prone, it really gives grapplers more flavor and usefulness in my opinion.

[Winthur]

According to the easily googlable but fairly vulgar story of Los Tiburon, the half-orc luchadore - which is, to be fair, probably fabricated - it should be possible.

Lurking otherwise, because I'm always on the lookout for how to make an unarmed fighter that is not trash.

[flappeercraft]

Pugilist fighter variant from Dragon magazine could fit your needs. IIRC its on dragon mag 341

[Flickerdart]

1. Barbarian - Spirit Totem: Lion ACF (CC), Whirling Frenzy ACF (UA), City Brawler ACF (Drg#349) , Skilled City Dweller (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) (trade Ride for Tumble)


Why Spirit Lion? Spirit Bear gives you Improved Grab.

[SirNibbles]

If you want to Grapple, check out Bear Warrior (Complete Warrior, page 16). Barbarian 7/Bear Warrior lets you shift into a Bear Form when you Rage/Frenzy, giving you a static bonus to Str/Dex/Con. Bear Warrior 1 gets +8/+2/+4, Bear Warrior 5 gets +16/+2/+8, and Bear Warrior 10 gets +20/+2/+8. While in the 5th or 10th level bear forms, you also get Improved Grab.

If you don't like the Bear Warrior flavour, you can just go straight Barbarian.

Barbarian ACFs that you might want for a charge in and grapple build:
Wolf Totem Variant Class for Improved Trip (allowing you to pick up Knock-Down without 13 Int)
Lion Spiritual Totem ACF for Pounce
City Brawler ACF for Improved Unarmed Strike and Two Weapon Fighting/Improved Two Weapon Fighting/Greater Two Weapon Fighting (Unarmed only)
Whirling Frenzy ACF for an extra max-BAB attack while raging

[Thurbane]

I love how in a topic about creating a wrestler, everyone has specifically avoided mentioning Reaping Mauler - quite telling on just how poor the design of that class really is! :smalltongue:

[Grod_The_Giant]

Setting Sun specialist with a cool-looking mask?
Yeah, if you want "cool wrestling moves," you need Setting Sun, probably with splashes of Stone Dragon for added fun. A level 1 Swordsage can chuck a guy ten feet, and it only builds from there. (Wolverine Stance is also decent for grapplers)

[daremetoidareyo]

You need to fix the freedom of movement spell to make grappling work after 6th level. Because...caster.

[khadgar567]

You know there is rey mysterio class in third party pathfinder called luchador and has manuever focused archtype so why not google that

[flappeercraft]

I love how in a topic about creating a wrestler, everyone has specifically avoided mentioning Reaping Mauler - quite telling on just how poor the design of that class really is! :smalltongue:

Oh, I was going to mention it but I forgot the name and in what complete it was. But you're right, it is trash.

[SangoProduction]

This might be of interest.

https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Grapplemancer_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)

Ignore that it's on that site.

[ben-zayb]

Expert with ranks in Perform (Acting) and Profession (Sports Entertainer), clearly:smalltongue:

Seriously, though, Setting Sun and Stone Dragon maneuvers pretty much has it thematically. Also check out Stormwrack's Leviathan Hunter PrC, for a Clever Wrestling that isn't limited to small or medium characters.

If you are fine with a "wrestler" NPC that doesn't stick to mundane mechanics, check out my take on the Undertaker:
Reviving this a bit with something a little more old-school...
The Undertaker

Lawful Evil Silverbrow Human Monk 2 / Sorcerer 1 / Savage Ghost Progression 2 / Fighter 2 / Master of the Unseen Hand 3 / Earth Dreamer 5 / Warlock 1 / Mindbender 1 / Marshal 3

ACF: Monk (Overwhelming Attack, Invisible Fist), Fighter (Hit and Run, Dungeoncrasher), Sorcerer (Dragonblood)
Aura: Motivate Charisma, Art of War, Motivate Urgency
Invocation: Beguiling Influence, Summon Swarm
Feats:
1: Able Learner, JotunbrudB, Improved Unarmed StrikeB, Power AttackB, Earth SenseFlaw, Evil's BlessingFlaw
2: Improved Bull RushB
3: Draconic Aura (Vigor)
4: Improved GrappleB
6: Ghostly Grasp
9: Imperious Command
12: Ascetic Mage
15: Mindsight
18: Dark Speech


Level 5: His main trick is to use Violent Thrust to either throw his enemy 120ft into the air (DC15+CHA, 12d6 falling damage) or throw up to 12 objects (for 12 large greatswords, that's 3d6*12) at that enemy. Once per 3 rounds, he can turn invisible, and thus make his enemies flat-footed against his attacks. He also has Cha to attack (Telekinesis), AC (Incorporeal), and Saves (Evil's Blessing).


Level 10: Same as above, except his Violent Thrust's damage becomes (weapon die + CHA)*12 when used against a flat-footed enemy within 30ft. Additionally, he can now Bull Rush 3x per round (modifier of CHA+8), each dealing 4d6+2*CHA when pushed against solid surfaces; One of his favorite trick, the "Tombstone Piledriver", involved flying atop his enemies and Bull Rushing them to the ground. He can also demoralize foes really well, with maxed-out Intimidate (19+CHA), and Never Outnumber skill-trick to demoralize in a 10ft-radius 1/encounter.

Most importantly, he can now do his signature move of burying his enemies alive. With Telekinesis being maintained using only a move action, he can Grapple 3x per round (modifier of 23+CHA) and use his remaining standard action to Move, in order to drag his grappled enemies 5ft underneath the ground. Furthermore, if he can see his enemies (such as via Ring of X-Ray Vision, which never harms him), he can dungeoncrash-Bull-Rush them underground because there's literally nowhere else to go. This is doable partly due to Supernatural Abilities not necessarily requiring Line of Effect.

Alternatively, another trick of his is the "Choke Slam", where he uses this grapple option while hovering 200ft or so off the ground, dragging his enemies to that altitude, and then dropping them off at the next opportunity for 20d6 damage.


Level 15: Same as above, except he just no longer bury his enemies 5ft underground: he practically drags them to the deepest domains of the underworld. He does this using Earth Glide to move further underground, Earthsight to perfectly see through 30ft of earth with the help of his Darkvision, and using the Move option of Telekinesis to move up to half his move speed (15ft unmodified).

Additionally, he now has 6th-level Sorcerer casting for whatever that's worth, and an additional CHA to AC via Ascetic Mage. His demoralization further improves with an Intimidate modifier of 24+CHA, and Imperious Command to turn demoralized creatures Cowering.


Level 20: Same as above, except he can now detect (via Mindsight) and speak telepathically to anyone (such as those being buried) with an Int score within 100ft. He finishes off with a Grapple modifier of 29+CHA, a Bull-Rush modifier of 8+2*CHA, and an Intimidate modifier of 35+2*CHA. He now has access to Dark Speech and Summon Swarm, too, for whatever that's worth.

[weckar]

I think the main issue with any of these builds is that it still doesn't give you more options of things to do WHILE in a grapple. Any way we could get Swallow Whole on a PC? Because that's about all I got.

Also, could this be the ONE correct application of Master of Masks dip?

[daremetoidareyo]

I think the main issue with any of these builds is that it still doesn't give you more options of things to do WHILE in a grapple. Any way we could get Swallow Whole on a PC? Because that's about all I got.

Also, could this be the ONE correct application of Master of Masks dip?

Rilkan with body pouch from serpent kingdoms???

[Ruethgar]

WWE wrestlers are completely different than what most are suggesting. Perform(Acting) and Bluff would cover most of it along with a high Str and Con score for the appearance and the endurance.

[Telonius]

I never actually put the build together for it, but a Swordsage with Earth's Embrace and a Crystal Mask of Mindarmor Item Familiar has been an idea on my backburner for a while now.

[Stealth Marmot]

They could play a monk with improved Grapple, but to be perfectly honest I would look at what everyone else is suggesting first because the Monk class has issues.

[Telonius]

They could play a monk with improved Grapple, but to be perfectly honest I would look at what everyone else is suggesting first because the Monk class has issues.

I suppose you could do that if you're going to be modeling Barry Horowitz. :smallbiggrin:

[Scorponok]

I misplaced my ToB. Can any of these builds be done at levels 1 to 4, or must the character be higher than that to suplex his enemies?

[Uncle Pine]

I misplaced my ToB. Can any of these builds be done at levels 1 to 4, or must the character be higher than that to suplex his enemies?

Clever Positioning, Counter Charge and Mighty Throw are all potentially flashy tricks available to a Swordsage of 1st-3rd level.

[ShurikVch]

Besides everything already mentioned...

PrCs:
Gladiator (Sword and Fist) - CFs such as Study Opponent, Exhaust Opponent, Roar of the Crowd, and The Crowd Goes Wild should be OK
Brawler (Dragon #295) - CFs Crowd Fighting, Subdual Damage Reduction, and Bludgeoning Substitution may be useful
Fierce Grappler (Dragon #295) - Great Grappler (2nd level CF) allow to hold and pin creatures up to two size categories larger
Streetfighter (Complete Adventurer) - Always Ready gives initiative bonus, and Stand Tough allow with Fortitude save to turn lethal physical damage into halved amount of nonlethal damage
Giant-Killer (Silver Marches) - Diehard CF (isn't a copy of the feat) allow to stay conscious at less than 0 hp; at 10th level, it upgraded to stay conscious at less than -10 hp (required Con checks, and works only until -30 hp)

"Glory and Triumph" article (in Dragon #303) have some stuff for gladiators - such as Fame subsystem - which may be also useful for Wrestler

[The Viscount]

Representing running around with environmental damage can be done well with Dungeoncrasher Fighter.

If you want to play up the grappling and forceful maneuvers, this one time Stone Dragon comes to the rescue with Crushing Weight of the Mountain.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Representing running around with environmental damage can be done well with Dungeoncrasher Fighter.

If you want to play up the grappling and forceful maneuvers, this one time Stone Dragon comes to the rescue with Crushing Weight of the Mountain.
Ooh, Dungeoncrasher is good.

[Cenric]

Ok, bear with me here...

Human Battle Dancer/Spirit Lion Barbarian 1

Pros:
Full BaB (Better than full monk, needed to get SuS at the earliest availability)
Unarmed Damage Progression (Makes your grapple damage actually hurt, rather than tickle)
Pounce (More grapple when you run up and start grappling)

Now here's where we get into run and suplex some pcs

1: Improved Grapple (Duh)
H: Scorpion's Grasp (Sandstorm, Grapple check on a sucessful unarmed strike)
3: Superior unarmed strike (Requires 3 BaB, +4 effective level for unarmed damage)*
6: Improved Natural Attack[My Fists] (Inreases size category for unarmed damage)**
9: Snapkick (ToB essentially another attack at -2)
*This technically says effective monk level, but it should be extendable to battle dancer
**Only damage, not grapple check

Note: Only Imp Grapple and Scorpion Grasp are really important to make the strategy work, the other ones simply raise damage and can be replaced by anything you like for whatever reason

So here's the strategy,
1) Charge and start a full attack thanks to pounce
2) When you land an attack on someone you immediately get a free grapple check (If you succeed you do your unarmed strike dmaage AGAIN)
3) Continue your full attack making grapple checks instead of attack rolls dealing unarmed damage on each success
3a) Fluff this as slamming them into the ground repeatedly
3b)You can also attempt a pin if you'd rather begin crushing them against the ground
3c) You can also do non-lethal damage at no penalty

Other options to make it more fun:
-Some method of enlarge person
-Stone Dragon maneuvers are generally regarded as bad, but this is a niche they perform well in, so a warblade or crusader dip is pretty nice


Edit:
This build is "viable" at all levels in that at all levels its primary trick of grappling things is available and should work >80%, provided your not grappling something larger than yourself

[Deadline]

I think the main issue with any of these builds is that it still doesn't give you more options of things to do WHILE in a grapple. Any way we could get Swallow Whole on a PC? Because that's about all I got.

Yes, you can. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21014322&postcount=121) :smallbiggrin:

[LordOfCain]

I just want to second the recommendation (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/188895/The-Luchador?src=hottest_filtered) for luchador from DDS that I saw upthread.

[The Viscount]

Ooh, Dungeoncrasher is good.

I mentioned it because I was reminded of one of the coolest builds (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=12527123&postcount=173) I've seen from way back when in Iron chef who used wall of ice to run people into.