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Superglucose
2007-07-23, 06:31 PM
Right, so the idea for this villain is that at first he has the PCs securing various objects of 'power' against the 'evil' people, who eventually are defeated by the villain... so basically this guy has the PCs doing his dirty work for a while, then the PCs fight him as he bids for domination of Sigil, the city in the Outlands, whos name escapes me for the moment.

Right now, his first name given to the PCs is Nierndil Songslinger. He appears as a mid level bard at first, and during the first part of the quest he'll appear to be CG (and he has a spell that makes his alignment appear as such to any attempt to discern his alignment... if the spell doesn't exist I can easily make it myself). I expect the PCs to defeat him around level 15-17, so I'm thinking he'll be a Bard 5, Sorceror 15. He's a human, and his real alignment is NE.

At the point where he kills the origional group who is 'thwarting him' that he uses the PCs to neutralize (they will witniss the group's destruction and possibly help, unkowingly) someone tells the PCs the name the villain usually goes by, Brising Master of Darkness. And at some point during the campaign someone refers to him as Albequith, Teller of Tales (or perhaps Teller of Tall Tales, I haven't decided yet).

Generally the idea is, after they help Nierndil/Brising thwart the first group, Nierndil/Brising departs the plane. Shortly afterwards, an inevitable-equivalent comes after them, sent by the current ruler of Sigil as punishment for their hand in helping Nierndil/Brising take over Sigil. Then the PCs have a chance to diplomacize and role-play their way out of combat with the inevitable-equivalent, and eventually offer their services to correct the evil they unleashed. Or they can defeat the inevitable-equivalent, go to the city of the outlands, demand explenation for why they are being hunted down (because there's no way the ruler of Sigil stops after one try), and from there have the option of helping Nierndil/Brising (I strongly suspect they won't... I know these players but I like to have all options available) or joining Sigil etc. etc.

So, my question is, what do you guys think of this so far?

Oh, and some additional information:
Detect alignment abilities are subject to a will save, and therefore aren't infallible. If you succeed the save, the detector can't discern ANY alignment, and gets no reading. There are spells which allow you to fake alignment, and requires a CL check to overcome. These changes are made only for the purposes of allowing some of the flavor to exist (after all, a Paladin in the party would ruin the entire campaign with a simple 'detect evil' spell).

I've increased the methods by which a castle etc. can be magically protected. Now instead of requiring anti magic fields you can have anti-magical effect fields, allowing you to cancel out certain effects (say, all dodge bonuses to armor class, or flying, or fire damage etc.) (this is seventh-level spell, which operates the same way an anti-magic field works only you can elliminate spells by school, effect, etc.)

As a first-time villain builder (I have DMed, but only campaigns made by friends), any advice would be welcome.

Also, I know the DMs guide says stuff about "Lady of Pain" but that isn't the case for this campaign. The ruler of Sigil is very powerful, but not ultimately so, and with enough support it is possible (though difficult) to overthrow said ruler.

jindra34
2007-07-23, 06:34 PM
The city is SIgil.

Triaxx
2007-07-23, 07:57 PM
The Lady of Pain is the cannonical ruler. Most citizens supposedly live in fear of her. If, like me, you cut her out of the picture, you can completely change the way the city functions. I let the power of the city be represented in an epic class scepter, with various powerful abilities. So you could overthrow the ruler, but you'd have to throw a lot of man power at the job.

Your villain is great. Powerful, cunning, and intelligent enough to outwit the Wizard that's likely in the party. (Too often I've seen wizards played as less intelligent than fighters.) What no villain can have too much of, is class, and one like you're describing should have it by the bucket. He should always do his best to wine and dine the PC's making them as willing as possible to do his bidding. Consider a split personality. One the calm, debonair good guy, the other a magically disguised power monger. So he can ensure the PC's do his bidding by providing an enemy to give them no choice but to obey. (And if you understand me, good for you.)

Now, once he starts to try and take control of Sigil, you have a golden Role-playing opportunity for your PC's. Gang wars. By removing the Queen of Blades, you can have groups of creatures, from different places, and planes, all fighting for control of the city. But because it takes so much power to take down the big cheese, most of the time is spent fighting to increase army sizes. So the PC's can spend time creating truces, or killing enemy leaders. A rogue with a knife can change the course of the entire campaign.

Of course this means enemies will send groups of hired killers, or their own troops against the PC's providing incentive, XP, and equipment for further ventures.

Superglucose
2007-07-24, 01:23 PM
Thanks for the help all!

Lady of Pain is far too canonically powerful for the purpose I need her to fill, so yes I got rid of her, and that's a great idea for taking over Sigil. And as for why he wants to control sigil, well, control of sigil is control over the passages between the planes (or at least most passage between the planes) and therefore sits on a very nice trade route (in my campaign at least) so he wants the money/power etc. He's doing all this based on greed, and the emotion he is supposed to first instill in the party is favor (the party should at first like him) etc. etc. And yes I read Rich's articles :smallwink:

He does have the split personality, it's why he has the bard class. But it's not split like, multiple personality disorder, it's more like, he has several 'surface' personalities that he puts on for show (which is why he's a sorceror, he has rather high charisma) and the true personality, underneath. He's perfectly in control of himself.

Thanks again for the help, that scepter thing is a great idea.

puppyavenger
2007-07-24, 04:46 PM
I'd just make the Lady of Pain a demigod and let 'im kill her.

and don't forget a few scapegoats for the party to kill and think they've won.

Triaxx
2007-07-24, 07:01 PM
That's exactly what I meant by personalities. Plus there might be a seperate group that tires to take down the villain, so the heroes end up trying to stop them from stopping him, while stopping him from killing them at the same time. Guaranteed to make them crazy.

I ended up a with a +20 scepter allowing instant if not unlimited teleportation anywhere within the city, along with the ability to summon troops from anywhere. Not to mention it could duplicate any elemental energy, including positive, and negative. Speed, keen, and +5.

Darke
2007-07-26, 05:19 AM
Wow, you just created me, except with slightly less evil intent.:smalltongue:

This is awesome, I wish I could create campaign ideas like that.

ringsnake
2007-07-26, 09:35 AM
As far as implementation goes, why not just make him a 20th level Bard, and have him "play down" his bardic powers to appear mid-level?

Then the PCs will get rewarded for separating the bad guy from his minions, and punished for just charging in blindly when he has a dozen or two low to mid level minions that he can boost.

Granted, you give up those superkeen groovy cool sorcerer spells, but the bard has some nasty stuff at his disposal in the 5th and 6th level bard spells that no one else can get.