Melee Skirmisher Build Help (Uses UA)

[Exentia]

I'm currently working on a build that can easily dart in and out of combat while staying hard to hit and doing mediocre damage. The core of this build relies on being able to have enough damage to burst squishy creatures and "kite" around larger ones. We create this core by using the swashbuckler (rogue) and fighter. With this we gain the swashbuckler's ability to not provoke opportunity attacks if it hits anything. Fighter gives us our level 1 proficiencies and lets use use heavy armor and shield for high armor class. We take the dueling fighting style for some extra damage and we use cunning action always for dashing in order to move to an enemy, hit it, and move away.

I use a variant human and take the mobile feat for extra speed (I've considered Volo's Tabaxi for some extra flexibility.) The wording on swashbuckler lets you sneak attack with non-finesse weapons so you can use a longsword (you also need the strength to wear heavy armor.) I ran 16 Str, 13 Dex, 16 Con, 8 Int, 8 Wis, and 12 Cha. This gives me the stats needed to survive and multiclass into rogue (at second level). The charisma is needed to gain an extra initiative from the swashbuckler's feature.

The issue arises in damage my build can output. I can only do a longsword attack of +6 vs AC. 1d8+5 +2d6(sneak attack). This amount is calculated at Rogue 3/Fighter 2, the minimum needed for it to work. This gives me an average damage of 16.5 on a regular hit. I can boost this with action surge from fighter but that would only add an extra 9.5 extra damage. What classes can I go into next in order to increase my damage output (after Fighter 5 for two attacks)? I'm planning on taking the feat Blade Mastery for the attack bonus it gives and the reaction for bonus 1 AC. Should I go Rogue 3/Fighter 5? Or should I instead keep Fighter 2 and dip into Ranger for the Hunter Conclave? Paladin smite would also seem helpful but I wouldn't get many uses of it due to spell slots.

Please recommend ideas of what I can do to increase my damage.

Thanks!

[Nimlouth]

maybe monk? the marcial arts feature will give you extra damage on every attack... or just go hexblade/warlock and do vodoo stuff to boost your damage.

[Specter]

Swashbuckler doesn't let you sneak attack with non-finesse weapons. What you can do is use STR to attack with a finesse weapon and still get sneak attack, as any rogue would. But Strogues have no particular benefit over Dexrogues, so you should take DEX and a rapier for more skill synergy.

Consider going Wood Elf instead of taking the Mobile feat. If the speed is all you're after, 35 feet may already be fast enough. If you are going for Mobile, it would be almost mandatory to grab Booming Blade somewhere along the way to make the enemy eat damage every time they try to chase you.

[MrStabby]

There are a few things I would give some thought to that might help you.

Firstly is weapons with reach. Whip is obvious option but also polearms. If you are not tied to dex as a class then this works well. Your mobility is from not often needing to take disengage as you can attack from outside of the reach of enemies.

If you are using UA then you could take the kensei and use a polearm with dexterity.

This wouldn't preclude rogue, if you were just dipping. Rogue would still give you expertise, skills and cunning action in the first two levels - you would be missing 1d6 sneak attack damage - thats all, and only in melee. If you have some daggers to throw to extend your range then these still get the benefit.

If you throw in sentinel and pole arm mastery you can even keep the enemies away.

[Exentia]

Swashbuckler doesn't let you sneak attack with non-finesse weapons. What you can do is use STR to attack with a finesse weapon and still get sneak attack, as any rogue would. But Strogues have no particular benefit over Dexrogues, so you should take DEX and a rapier for more skill synergy.

Consider going Wood Elf instead of taking the Mobile feat. If the speed is all you're after, 35 feet may already be fast enough. If you are going for Mobile, it would be almost mandatory to grab Booming Blade somewhere along the way to make the enemy eat damage every time they try to chase you.

I need 40 speed so I can end and start a turn 40 feet away from a monster always (using dash via cunning action). Also, refering to your first point, the UA states "In addition, you can use Sneak Attack with any melee attack made against a target that has none of your allies adjacent to it."
Using RAW, the "any melee attack" lets me use a long sword (or any other melee weapon) as long as the criterion of none of my allies adjacent to the enemy.


maybe monk? the marcial arts feature will give you extra damage on every attack... or just go hexblade/warlock and do vodoo stuff to boost your damage.


There are a few things I would give some thought to that might help you.

Firstly is weapons with reach. Whip is obvious option but also polearms. If you are not tied to dex as a class then this works well. Your mobility is from not often needing to take disengage as you can attack from outside of the reach of enemies.

If you are using UA then you could take the kensei and use a polearm with dexterity.

This wouldn't preclude rogue, if you were just dipping. Rogue would still give you expertise, skills and cunning action in the first two levels - you would be missing 1d6 sneak attack damage - thats all, and only in melee. If you have some daggers to throw to extend your range then these still get the benefit.

If you throw in sentinel and pole arm mastery you can even keep the enemies away.

The issue with monk (and Kensei) is that they use their bonus actions in order to do more but I have to reserve mine for cunning action. I also need minimum of rogue 3 in order to get the swashbuckler features that let me run past enemies and keep distance between them and I as I attack them. (I start my turn 40 feet away, I bonus action dash via cunning action, I move 40 feet to them, attack, move 40 feet away.) Reach isn't important as I don't need to keep the enemies away. (Sentinel also needs me to be near them.) Polearm Master again rises the issue of using my bonus action for the 1d4 extra attack it gives.

After reading this, I think Warlock cantrips would give me some useful damage and flexibility.

[Crusher]

Using RAW, the "any melee attack" lets me use a long sword (or any other melee weapon) as long as the criterion of none of my allies adjacent to the enemy.

I don't have my books handy, but I believe SCAG rewrote that so its clear only finesse weapons can be used.

[Exentia]

I don't have my books handy, but I believe SCAG rewrote that so its clear only finesse weapons can be used.

Oh, thanks. I didn't realize SCAG changed that. I can instead run 16 Dex and use our party's Mithral Plate Armor.

[Specter]

I need 40 speed so I can end and start a turn 40 feet away from a monster always (using dash via cunning action).

Fine. But be aware that Mobile and Fancy Footwork are mutually redundant.

[FinnS]

Oh, thanks. I didn't realize SCAG changed that. I can instead run 16 Dex and use our party's Mithral Plate Armor.

SCAG
"In addition, you don't need advantage on your attack
roll to use your Sneak Attack if no creature other than
your target is within 5 feet of you. All the other rules for
the Sneak Attack class feature still apply to you."

Not sure how anyone gets "doesn't have to be a Finesse weapon" out of that?


Maybe you're confused about the Finesse property. It gives you the option to use DEX instead of STR to hit and damage. It doesn't restrict you to DEX only though.
Sneak Attack only requires the use of a Finesse weapon. There is nothing that restricts it to DEX only.

The only time there's a restriction for using DEX only to hit and damage is with ranged only weapons (bows, x-bows, dart, sling, net and blowgun).
It clearly states that weapons with the Thrown property used at range use the same ability to hit and damage that is used for melee attacks with said weapon.

Weapon properties can be confusing sometimes, although less in 5e than in other editions I think.
Had more than a few folk show up at my table dual-wielding Rapiers without the Two-weapon Feat.
Happens.

[Exentia]

SCAG
"In addition, you don't need advantage on your attack
roll to use your Sneak Attack if no creature other than
your target is within 5 feet of you. All the other rules for
the Sneak Attack class feature still apply to you."

Not sure how anyone gets "doesn't have to be a Finesse weapon" out of that?


Maybe you're confused about the Finesse property. It gives you the option to use DEX instead of STR to hit and damage. It doesn't restrict you to DEX only though.
Sneak Attack only requires the use of a Finesse weapon. There is nothing that restricts it to DEX only.

The only time there's a restriction for using DEX only to hit and damage is with ranged only weapons (bows, x-bows, dart, sling, net and blowgun).
It clearly states that weapons with the Thrown property used at range use the same ability to hit and damage that is used for melee attacks with said weapon.

Weapon properties can be confusing sometimes, although less in 5e than in other editions I think.
Had more than a few folk show up at my table dual-wielding Rapiers without the Two-weapon Feat.
Happens.

I was confused because I was using the old Unearthed Arcana Swashbuckler which is worded differently than the SCAG Swashbuckler.

[FinnS]

I was confused because I was using the old Unearthed Arcana Swashbuckler which is worded differently than the SCAG Swashbuckler.

Ahhh now that I understand.