Does anyone else like Bard/Warlock? Is it worth it?

[Prince_Vorrel]

Basically what the title says. Ive been playing a bard(1)/Warlock(2) for the past 2 sessions and have found it VERY enjoyable so far.

between vicious mockery and Eldritch Blast I always have an option in combat. I also have a good amount of spells for control/healing/utility since eldritch blast supports most of my offensive needs this early on. (dissonant whispers being my big hitter for low will targets when i can spare slots.

And thanks to (Variant) human I have medium armor and a shield for a pretty good armor score. (im going more caster based so lore bard for all its goodies)

And warlock gives me UBER dark vision. and of course Eldritch blast that scales with charisma making it the best cantrip in the game. AND delicious telepathy...which ive already used twice to mess with enemies and help the group out a ton. plus the sweet gosh darn flavor of being a Great old one pact warlock who uses the knowledge he gains from his otherworldly teacher to make sick ass creepy music!

i believe this multiclass needs more love...

[Sirdar]

Do I hear the Music of Erich Zann? :smallsmile:

Love the concept of a Lore Bard/GOO Warlock with focus on the otherworldly music. I have no idea how to make a strong build since I've never been interested in playing a Bard before, but I'm sure people on this forum will bring you good advice. If I would play this type of character I would have her/him cast Hunger of Hadar and Evard's Black Tentacles by playing an eerie, long-forgotten tune with a twisted black flute carved as an octopus tentacle.

UA College of Whispers could be an alternative to Lore Bard if you want to be really creepy.

[Citan]

Basically what the title says. Ive been playing a bard(1)/Warlock(2) for the past 2 sessions and have found it VERY enjoyable so far.

between vicious mockery and Eldritch Blast I always have an option in combat. I also have a good amount of spells for control/healing/utility since eldritch blast supports most of my offensive needs this early on. (dissonant whispers being my big hitter for low will targets when i can spare slots.

And thanks to (Variant) human I have medium armor and a shield for a pretty good armor score. (im going more caster based so lore bard for all its goodies)

And warlock gives me UBER dark vision. and of course Eldritch blast that scales with charisma making it the best cantrip in the game. AND delicious telepathy...which ive already used twice to mess with enemies and help the group out a ton. plus the sweet gosh darn flavor of being a Great old one pact warlock who uses the knowledge he gains from his otherworldly teacher to make sick ass creepy music!

i believe this multiclass needs more love...
Well, I had no chance to play my ultimate CHA gish character yet, but I do see very well how a Bard/Warlock multiclass may be fairly enjoyable. ;)

I envision a character that would end as the ultimate utility character, thanks to free spells (Disguise Self, Silent Image, Levitate), all rituals (Tome Pact), great array of cantrips (weapon cantrips, Vicious Mockery, Guidance, Shillelagh, Mold Earth, etc), Expertise in some skills, short rest slots to power buffs/debuffs, and either telepathy (GOO) or built-in damage (Fiend for Fireball).
Basically, a Fiend Tome Warlock would take away much of the usual weight of a pure Bard (taking some rituals such as Leomund's Tiny Hut or grabbing Ritual Caster feat, using Magic Secrets for some damage spells). ;)

Yes, I definitely see the potential fun in here. XD

[Tanarii]

Most multiclass options apparently feel awesome at low level. When they hurt is when you hit level 5 and don't get the massive power spike you normally get at that level. Playing AL (which is where I see MC players, since my campaign is single class) Tier 2 start is where I suddenly hear all sorts of bitching from MC dippers. Which is hilarious to me after hearing them go on and on about how awesome it is for the previous Tier.

Edit: okay that came out way more negative than I intended. Let me rephrase: I'd recommend playing it through at least level 7-8 so you can see how it plays out in terms of always being a level behind as a warlock before making a final judgement.

[Citan]

Most multiclass options apparently feel awesome at low level. When they hurt is when you hit level 5 and don't get the massive power spike you normally get at that level. Playing AL (which is where I see MC players, since my campaign is single class) Tier 2 start is where I suddenly hear all sorts of bitching from MC dippers. Which is hilarious to me after hearing them go on and on about how awesome it is for the previous Tier.

Edit: okay that came out way more negative than I intended. Let me rephrase: I'd recommend playing it through at least level 7-8 so you can see how it plays out in terms of always being a level behind as a warlock before making a final judgement.
What you say is generally true for all classes, but my feeling is that you actually feel it less for a Warlock at the level range you are talking about.

After all, with "only" 2 slots per short rest, you take a habit of carefully selecting spells that stay useful a long time and can be used in a variety of situations. A lot of low-level spells stay relevant throughout (Hex, Mirror Image, Blindness, Command, etc).
And Warlock is the strongest spellcaster when out of slots, between EB, other cantrips and free spells.
Sooo, I think it's much more manageable to be one level behind as a Warlock than as a Wizard for example, or worse, a Cleric (since "prepared" gets not one, not two, but a whole bunch of new spells to play with every two levels).

On the contrary, I think the point where it's the most frustrating as a Warlock to be one level behind is around 10th. Because you know you will have to wait "one more level" to get third slot, and levels begin to require a hefty amount of xp to clear...

[Tanarii]

At 5th level warlocks get access to level 3 spells just like any caster, and all their slots get the upgrade, so 6 a day on average not just 2 per day plus remainder lower level. They also get another invocation, as well as opening up the next tier of invocations, which they can take two of if they want by swapping out. Plus for pact of the blade warlocks (specifically) they get their boon defining ability. It's a big level for them. But it's still fair to say YMMV. :smallwink:

I absolutely agree that (in theory) level 11 with a 1 level dip is when folks would regret it the most. I've yet to see that specific level bump and MC dip happen in play myself yet, though. And I agree that in general, as you level up more, that level 1 dip is going to feel the '1 level later' pain more due to the XP curve.

[deathadder99]

Bard really struggles with at-will damage, especially early. Can be nasty to have a vicious mockery saved, and they don't really do much damage or have much utility once out of spell slots. I'm interested as to why you want to go Warlock for the majority of the levels - going majority bard will probably end up much better - magical secrets and more slots!

Plus the bard capstone is meh, but you do get magical secrets for wish, making you incredibly versatile and the short rest slots really help you keep going on a long adventuring day. Luckily you don't have as MUCH multiclass pain, as eldritch blast scales with total level rather than lock level. But you'll still miss third level spells, as well as your capstone being wish as you only get it at 18.

[BiPolar]

A lot of this depends on how far you think your character is going to get level-wise. I'm playing a Bard 10/Warlock 2 right now, but a lot of it was thematic and to cover for having gotten an instrument of the Bards that I didn't want to let go of to use a crossbow/bow.

Overall, I like having Eldridge Blast, but waiting 1-2 levels for the next tier of bard spells, magical secrets, etc. is incredibly painful. If you can get by without MC, I generally recommend doing so. Delaying magical secrets, increased bardic inspiration dice, etc. is a very big penalty for some extra low level spells.

[Prince_Vorrel]

A lot of this depends on how far you think your character is going to get level-wise. I'm playing a Bard 10/Warlock 2 right now, but a lot of it was thematic and to cover for having gotten an instrument of the Bards that I didn't want to let go of to use a crossbow/bow.

Overall, I like having Eldridge Blast, but waiting 1-2 levels for the next tier of bard spells, magical secrets, etc. is incredibly painful. If you can get by without MC, I generally recommend doing so. Delaying magical secrets, increased bardic inspiration dice, etc. is a very big penalty for some extra low level spells.

I am a bit worried about getting the magic secrets and level 3 spells 2 levels later (going only 2 warlock). But i still get a jump in power when i hit level 5. Eldritch blast upgrades AND i finally get the lore bard thing making me a group skill monkey. I get 2 level 1 spells on short rest thanks to warlock which i can use for shield or healing word.

Overall sure I lose a bit of power early on but gain recharging spell slots (which has synergy with song of rest) AND the ability to ALWAYS deal good damage with Eldritch blast since practically nothing resists it. That seems like a good trade for the offensive support build im going for.

[BiPolar]

I am a bit worried about getting the magic secrets and level 3 spells 2 levels later (going only 2 warlock). But i still get a jump in power when i hit level 5. Eldritch blast upgrades AND i finally get the lore bard thing making me a group skill monkey. I get 2 level 1 spells on short rest thanks to warlock which i can use for shield or healing word.

Overall sure I lose a bit of power early on but gain recharging spell slots (which has synergy with song of rest) AND the ability to ALWAYS deal good damage with Eldritch blast since practically nothing resists it. That seems like a good trade for the offensive support build im going for.

As many have said before me, MC is great for early levels, but as you progress you start to fall behind. Level 5 isn't that big a deal, it's more the magical secrets at Level 10 (now level 11 or later) where all of a sudden that 1-2 level dip makes those goodies (and magical secrets for 5th level spells is absolutely no joke) seem very very far away.

[djreynolds]

Any charisma based class would do well picking up 2-3 levels of warlock for EB and agonizing blast.

The combo allows you to have a "powerful" option during combat yet still focus on skills and utility

[rollingForInit]

As many have said before me, MC is great for early levels, but as you progress you start to fall behind. Level 5 isn't that big a deal, it's more the magical secrets at Level 10 (now level 11 or later) where all of a sudden that 1-2 level dip makes those goodies (and magical secrets for 5th level spells is absolutely no joke) seem very very far away.

I'm currently doing a Bard/Sorcerer where I'm level 5 Lore Bard, and 1 Stone Sorcerer. Character level 6 is gonna take quite some time in this campaign, so I'm feeling the pain of waiting for Magical Secrets.

However, without that Sorcerer level, my concept of a Bard with a shield in armor that's an off-tank and fighting with magical melee attacks (SCAG cantrips) would've been impossible to achieve in a good way. So I'm getting the entire character concept in exchange for waiting a bit longer. That's totally worth it.

[ZealousObject]

One of my backup character in my campaign is actually a Bard (4)/TomeFiendLock (6) (God that's a mouthful) going off of the old 50's style of music for the bard, basically I sold my sold to the devil (well duh). As for the race I was going with Drow and just having disguise self always on and just using save spells / suppourt when the target is out in sunlight. Overall I really want to use him and see how well I can play him, but he also seems to me to be really good just from my theorycrafting with him.

[BiPolar]

I'm currently doing a Bard/Sorcerer where I'm level 5 Lore Bard, and 1 Stone Sorcerer. Character level 6 is gonna take quite some time in this campaign, so I'm feeling the pain of waiting for Magical Secrets.

However, without that Sorcerer level, my concept of a Bard with a shield in armor that's an off-tank and fighting with magical melee attacks (SCAG cantrips) would've been impossible to achieve in a good way. So I'm getting the entire character concept in exchange for waiting a bit longer. That's totally worth it.

MCing for character concept is an entirely different animal :) If you've got an idea for a concept, you do what you can to make it work and you understand it may reduce the full power potential, but you get the character you want :)

[MrStabby]

Well there are always a couple of reasons why I would worry about this mechanically.

1) Magical secrets. Great ability to take a spell from any list to shore up a gap. The more classes you are able to pick spells from the lower value this is, as you are closer to having some kind of substitute for it.

2) Spell slots don't stack well. If you do have say 4 warlock levels and 4 bard levels and you take another bard level you gain 2 3rd level spell slots. If you had gone all bard you would be gaining two spell slots still, but a 4th and a 5th level spell slot instead of two 3rd level slots.



On the plus side...

1) Bard spells tend not to do much damage. It is the damage spells that become less effective at higher levels. Your spells will still retain relevance even if you don't have the highest level of spell slots.

2) You do gain versatility. When the battle is won and the trick is to manage to rout the enemy whilst minimising resource usage the bard is poor. Eldritch blast is superb for finishing off fights. Your spell slots will go further; you can be more effective without spending a spell slot so you can take more niche spells.