Monk Sun soul 6 / fiend warlock 1 Booming blade-Flurry of blows

[BladeWing81]

So I finally did it, I made my DBZ Monk with a fiend warlock to get some OP warlock goodies like the two spells that comeback with Short rest(Hex and protection from evil and good),and two great cantrips (booming blade, true strike) as an added bonus 2 temp hp points on each kill (I know they don't stack so don't worry) from the fiend subclass.
This gives me the chance to add an extra 1d6 per hit of my weapon attacks or my radiant sun bolts. I added booming blade and true strike in case any enemy dares to get close to me will get a face full of fire/necrotic/bludgeoning quarterstaff damage in a single attack. but my questions are these:
Does booming blade interact with Martial arts extra attack or flurry of blows in case the enemy already has hex?
Are there other interactions I'm missing?
Is it worth another warlock lvl for another spell slot and 2 eldritch invocations?
Are there any good Magic Items I can get to improve the sun bolts now that I have access to warlock magic items?
Does Booming blade scales with overall level or just warlock level?
Did I make a mistake in MCing Monk to begin with?

Thanks for any feedback.

[RulesJD]

Booming Blade is the "Casting a Spell" Action, not the "Attack" Action, so you can't use it with Flurry of Blows.

[Bahamut7]

I have been noticing not a lot melds with Sun Soul. The slightly different wording of Radiant Sun Bolts has thrown a major wrench into a lot of options. Assuming the sage advice is correct about it not being a spell (yet it is a ranged spell attack :smallconfused: ) you can't use Spell Sniper to double its range. When you start going through the feat list you realize besides the generic options (alert, athlete, mobile, etc) most feats are a waste of time. Combine this with the lack of Monk related items and you have a class that HAS to be self-sufficient.

As for booming blade...this comes down to are the Cast a Spell and Attack option of an Action merely categories? Or are they very distinct differences that mechanically are completely separate?

Booming Blade

As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature within the spell's range, otherwise the spell fails. On a hit, the target suffers the attack's normal effects, and it becomes sheathed in booming energy until the start of your next turn. If the target willingly moves before then, it immediately takes 1d8 thunder damage, and the spell ends.

Based on this wording, I don't see why it wouldn't work.

[BladeWing81]

Booming Blade is the "Casting a Spell" Action, not the "Attack" Action, so you can't use it with Flurry of Blows.

I figured as much, just wanted to make sure. but the spell requires a melee attack does that mean I acn use Martial arts Dexterity or strength depending on My Monk weapon? or does this change the quarterstaff attack as a normal attack making it only strength based? (again interactions with Monk Martial arts can become confusing).

[BladeWing81]

I have been noticing not a lot melds with Sun Soul. The slightly different wording of Radiant Sun Bolts has thrown a major wrench into a lot of options. Assuming the sage advice is correct about it not being a spell (yet it is a ranged spell attack :smallconfused: ) you can't use Spell Sniper to double its range. When you start going through the feat list you realize besides the generic options (alert, athlete, mobile, etc) most feats are a waste of time. Combine this with the lack of Monk related items and you have a class that HAS to be self-sufficient.

As for booming blade...this comes down to are the Cast a Spell and Attack option of an Action merely categories? Or are they very distinct differences that mechanically are completely separate?

Booming Blade

As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature within the spell's range, otherwise the spell fails. On a hit, the target suffers the attack's normal effects, and it becomes sheathed in booming energy until the start of your next turn. If the target willingly moves before then, it immediately takes 1d8 thunder damage, and the spell ends.

Based on this wording, I don't see why it wouldn't work.


I´m not really worried about Feats since the only really valuable ones for the Monk in my mind are Mobile and Magic initiate (maaaybe Defensive duelist or Blade Mastery for the extra reaction to AC). but Sun soul takes care of mobile because of the range attack I no longer need to go Melee and warlock takes care of hex and the cantrips I want to use.

about booming blade I'm biased to take your side since getting hex along with a single powerful attack plus two more attacks for a single Ki point would make the Monk a real damage powerhouse.

[Idkwhatmyscreen]

. . . and two great cantrips (booming blade, true strike) as an added bonus 2 temp hp points on each kill (I know they don't stack so don't worry) from the fiend subclass. . . .

. . .Does booming blade interact with Martial arts extra attack or flurry of blows in case the enemy already has hex?
Are there other interactions I'm missing?
Is it worth another warlock lvl for another spell slot and 2 eldritch invocations?
Are there any good Magic Items I can get to improve the sun bolts now that I have access to warlock magic items?
Does Booming blade scales with overall level or just warlock level?
Did I make a mistake in MCing Monk to begin with?
Thanks for any feedback.

First True Strike is really bad, you are burning your whole action to get advantage on the next turn (on only 1/4 potential attacks), not the next attack. And if you get hit in the mean time you will have to make a Con save to keep the effect alive long enough to use it.

I would recommend grabbing almost anything else ( aside from blade ward)

As far as booming blade interaction with martial arts, that falls into the "Ask your Dm category" Did you really take an attack action or did you cast a spell that had you make a non-magical attack as part of the spell?

It won't ever work with Flurry of Blows however, as Booming has a casting time of 1 Action and Flurry is a bonus action. If you are asking if Booming Blade triggers a Flurry of Blows, it is again in the "Ask your Dm category"
As far as Going higher in warlock. You already gave up the monk capstone ( Meh ) another level and loose one ASI ( kind of important as your build is a little MAD. ) Going another level will cause you to loss the ability to go astral ( not a big deal for a DBZ character) Anything after that and you loose your subclass capstone and that is no good. I would say if you are going to go to level 2, you will be better off if you go to level 3 as well, but no higher
You won't find any magic items to improve you "KI BLASTS" but Booming Blade will scale with charter level, not warlock or monk.

Overall it depends on what the Dm thinks of all of this to make this work or not. Your very much in the grey area of the rules

[BladeWing81]

First True Strike is really bad, you are burning your whole action to get advantage on the next turn (on only 1/4 potential attacks), not the next attack. And if you get hit in the mean time you will have to make a Con save to keep the effect alive long enough to use it.

I would recommend grabbing almost anything else ( aside from blade ward)

As far as booming blade interaction with martial arts, that falls into the "Ask your Dm category" Did you really take an attack action or did you cast a spell that had you make a non-magical attack as part of the spell?

It won't ever work with Flurry of Blows however, as Booming has a casting time of 1 Action and Flurry is a bonus action. If you are asking if Booming Blade triggers a Flurry of Blows, it is again in the "Ask your Dm category"
As far as Going higher in warlock. You already gave up the monk capstone ( Meh ) another level and loose one ASI ( kind of important as your build is a little MAD. ) Going another level will cause you to loss the ability to go astral ( not a big deal for a DBZ character) Anything after that and you loose your subclass capstone and that is no good. I would say if you are going to go to level 2, you will be better off if you go to level 3 as well, but no higher
You won't find any magic items to improve you "KI BLASTS" but Booming Blade will scale with charter level, not warlock or monk.

Overall it depends on what the Dm thinks of all of this to make this work or not. Your very much in the grey area of the rules

I just reread true strike and you're right so either eldritch blast, chill touch or green flame blade.

Booming blade doesn't interact with flurry as it can't trigger it and with Martial arts its is more of a DM thing I guess too.

I don't think I would go farther than lvl 2 warlock just to have the invocations and an extra spell slot in case hex concentration was lost or no time for short rest. I only need dex and wis to top off; using the normal Human I got the following stats at lvl 5 with point buy:
str 9
dex 18 (ASI lvl 4)
Con 14
Int 9
Wis 16
Cha 13

losing 1 ASI isn't that much of a lost except maybe I can't get CON o CHA to got up after topping of DEX and WIS. but I do feel emtpy body is a must for the Monk.

Lastly I found something that might work is the staff of power that improves by +2 my AC, saves, melee attacks-damage and spell attacks, unless RANGED SPELL ATTACK doesn't count in for the staff of power, along with all the other spell it has. I know its very rare for charatcters lvl 11 and above but it still works in many ways for my unless I'm mistaken.

[Maxilian]

I´m not really worried about Feats since the only really valuable ones for the Monk in my mind are Mobile and Magic initiate (maaaybe Defensive duelist or Blade Mastery for the extra reaction to AC). but Sun soul takes care of mobile because of the range attack I no longer need to go Melee and warlock takes care of hex and the cantrips I want to use.

about booming blade I'm biased to take your side since getting hex along with a single powerful attack plus two more attacks for a single Ki point would make the Monk a real damage powerhouse.

But the Hex will take more advantage of multiple attack (Aka your Extra Attack feature), you can't use Extra attack and Booming Blade.


I figured as much, just wanted to make sure. but the spell requires a melee attack does that mean I acn use Martial arts Dexterity or strength depending on My Monk weapon? or does this change the quarterstaff attack as a normal attack making it only strength based? (again interactions with Monk Martial arts can become confusing).

You can, as long as you're using a weapon, you can't use Booming Blade with an Unarmed Strike, if the weapon is a Monk weapon you can use STR or DEX.

Note: BB does not count as an Attack action, so you won't be able to use Flurry of Blows with it (Unless your DM rules other wise, but that would be a house rule)

[Maxilian]

When the Sun Soul Monk came out, we had a thread and talked about all the things it interact with and how it would work, here its a copy of one of my comments that point out how it works with some Feats.

At lvl 1 you get the ability to use your attack action (does work with Extra attack and anything that works around the Attack action, but no OA for you with this -still... not like you're going to use it-) to make a Range Spell Attack (uses DEX) -30 feet range- that does radiant damage (damage equal to the martial art column) and give you an ability that's Flurry of Blows but with the range attack, sadly you can't use your bonus action attack to also make a range spell attack :S (the one given by martial arts)

Note: You can use the Crossbow Expert feat to ignore the disadvantage of your attacks on melee, the Spell Sniper lets your attack ignore Half cover and Three-quarters cover, also you could like to use a feat to take the place of your bonus action attack (Shield Master would be a nice option, but sadly you're a monk and shields are normally a big no, MC into War Cleric would be nice -would be able to use the War priest ability after attacking with your range attack, but would need a weapon -a bow could work, you're using the same DEX either way-), also... the is a Range Spell Attack, but you're not casting a spell, so it doesn't work with War Caster (and other things that work around spells unless they say Range Attacks or Range Spell Attacks -at least you can use it as a Raging barbarian!)

At lvl 6 you get Burning Hands lvl 1 that can only be used after you make the attack action... as a bonus action! (2 ki points), and cost 1 ki points to increase its lvl (can only use half of your monk lvl as ki point in this ability -rounded down, minimun 2 ki points-) That's pretty good!

At lvl 11, you get the ability to cast an orb of light as an action with a 150 range (target its a point not an object), each creature in a 20-f radius sphere make a CON save or take 2d6 (auto win save if in full cover that's opaque) doesn-t cost Ki Points, but you can use 1 ki point (max 3) to add 2d6 (per ki point).

At lvl 17 you get an aura of light (30-f radius bright light and dim light for another 30) can put it on or off as a Bonus action, if you are hit while you have this aura on, you can use your reaction to deal radiant damage (5 + WIS Mod), have in mind... that you DEAL 5 + WIS, so save, no AC, no anything...

Note2: You can use the range spell attack in any animal form if you Multiclass into a druid (Laser monkey, laser lizard, laser flying snake and so on)

Here the link to the whole thread if interested in checking it out

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?454935-Sun-Soul-Monk

[BladeWing81]

When the Sun Soul Monk came out, we had a thread and talked about all the things it interact with and how it would work, here its a copy of one of my comments that point out how it works with some Feats.

Details about Sun Soul Monk]At lvl 1 you get the ability to use your attack action (does work with Extra attack and anything that works around the Attack action, but no OA for you with this -still... not like you're going to use it-) to make a Range Spell Attack (uses DEX) -30 feet range- that does radiant damage (damage equal to the martial art column) and give you an ability that's Flurry of Blows but with the range attack, sadly you can't use your bonus action attack to also make a range spell attack :S (the one given by martial arts)

Note: You can use the Crossbow Expert feat to ignore the disadvantage of your attacks on melee, the Spell Sniper lets your attack ignore Half cover and Three-quarters cover, also you could like to use a feat to take the place of your bonus action attack (Shield Master would be a nice option, but sadly you're a monk and shields are normally a big no, MC into War Cleric would be nice -would be able to use the War priest ability after attacking with your range attack, but would need a weapon -a bow could work, you're using the same DEX either way-), also... the is a Range Spell Attack, but you're not casting a spell, so it doesn't work with War Caster (and other things that work around spells unless they say Range Attacks or Range Spell Attacks -at least you can use it as a Raging barbarian!)


Here the link to the whole thread if interested in checking it out

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?454935-Sun-Soul-Monk

Thanks for the Link, I participated on this thread when the sun soul came out. you mention radiant sun bolt is not a spell but since I have the MC warlock does it still work with magic items like staff of power or staff of the pack keeper for the +2 to spell attacks? those items especially the staff of power would make this build incredibly strong with the bonus to AC, saves, Melee attack/damage but I'm specially interested in the +2 spells attack. Does the +2 to spell attack count for radiant sun bolt?

[Citan]

So I finally did it, I made my DBZ Monk with a fiend warlock to get some OP warlock goodies like the two spells that comeback with Short rest(Hex and protection from evil and good),and two great cantrips (booming blade, true strike) as an added bonus 2 temp hp points on each kill (I know they don't stack so don't worry) from the fiend subclass.
This gives me the chance to add an extra 1d6 per hit of my weapon attacks or my radiant sun bolts. I added booming blade and true strike in case any enemy dares to get close to me will get a face full of fire/necrotic/bludgeoning quarterstaff damage in a single attack. but my questions are these:
Does booming blade interact with Martial arts extra attack or flurry of blows in case the enemy already has hex?
Are there other interactions I'm missing?
Is it worth another warlock lvl for another spell slot and 2 eldritch invocations?
Are there any good Magic Items I can get to improve the sun bolts now that I have access to warlock magic items?
Does Booming blade scales with overall level or just warlock level?
Did I make a mistake in MCing Monk to begin with?

Thanks for any feedback.
Per curiosity, why did you choose Fiend Warlock, considering that you know THP don't stack and you get Fireball option with Sun Soul?

I'm not sure I understand the reasoning. ;)
The most thematic would have been Undying Light I guess, but maybe UA was not allowed in your game...

As for your answer.
Not, it is not necessarily a bad option. Let's consider...
- Do you want your Monk to be a Face (= not just being "the one who blasts away")? Then it was a good choice, and going another level to get social related skills may be worth it.
- Do you want to max DEX first and keep WIS at 16 for a good part of your career? Then it may be worth going another Warlock level to get free Mage Armor.
- Did you make a Monk without any Darkvision, yet want to be the scout/infiltrator of your party? Then it is definitely worth going Warlock 2 for Devil Sight invocation.
- Do you have a high enough CHA to really make spells shine? Then ask DM if Patron swap is allowed, and take the Patron that grants the Command spell. Or push the idea up to (Tome) Fiend Warlock 5 with Burning Hands and Fireball (so you can conserve your Ki for mobility/stunning strike), free Mage Armour and plenty of rituals (Tome related Invocation), third invocation being Repelling Blast.

If answer to all these question is no, then... Dipping was not a "bad" choice, but basically the only value was cantrips and Hex (not sure Protection will be useful that often, but I may be wrong), and maybe a Magic Initiate would have been sufficient to this effect (only downgrade would have been 1/long rest instead of 1/short rest). Or rather go War Cleric to get either Bless or Divine Favor to all your attacks with 2 slots for the day.

If at least one answer is a solid yes, then the dip is probably worth enough.

[BladeWing81]

Per curiosity, why did you choose Fiend Warlock, considering that you know THP don't stack and you get Fireball option with Sun Soul?

I'm not sure I understand the reasoning. ;)
The most thematic would have been Undying Light I guess, but maybe UA was not allowed in your game...

As for your answer.
Not, it is not necessarily a bad option. Let's consider...
- Do you want your Monk to be a Face (= not just being "the one who blasts away")? Then it was a good choice, and going another level to get social related skills may be worth it.
- Do you want to max DEX first and keep WIS at 16 for a good part of your career? Then it may be worth going another Warlock level to get free Mage Armor.
- Did you make a Monk without any Darkvision, yet want to be the scout/infiltrator of your party? Then it is definitely worth going Warlock 2 for Devil Sight invocation.
- Do you have a high enough CHA to really make spells shine? Then ask DM if Patron swap is allowed, and take the Patron that grants the Command spell. Or push the idea up to (Tome) Fiend Warlock 5 with Burning Hands and Fireball (so you can conserve your Ki for mobility/stunning strike), free Mage Armour and plenty of rituals (Tome related Invocation), third invocation being Repelling Blast.

If answer to all these question is no, then... Dipping was not a "bad" choice, but basically the only value was cantrips and Hex (not sure Protection will be useful that often, but I may be wrong), and maybe a Magic Initiate would have been sufficient to this effect (only downgrade would have been 1/long rest instead of 1/short rest). Or rather go War Cleric to get either Bless or Divine Favor to all your attacks with 2 slots for the day.

If at least one answer is a solid yes, then the dip is probably worth enough.

The reasoning for fiend is that I'm playing in adventure league so undying light is not allowed, also is that fiend gets me a few useful spells and also basically some free temp HP per kill which maybe low but when you can block a couple of damage at a time it can make a difference in the long run. along with having an extra burning hands if I use up all of my ki. the other options would have been undying for the spare the dying cantrip and the protection from undead. for me it was a coin toss between the two and the fiend won.

On your considerations

1 and 3 -I was planning a warlock second lvl to get free false life and either Darkvision or the proeficiency in intimidation persuation.

2 and 4-Dex and Wis are my main goal to get AC 20+ any magic items to boost that stat (ring of protection, bracers of defense and staff of power would be my perfect load-out) Char will probably stay 13 since I only need Hex and the cantrips I want are dependent on my dex attack (booming blade and greenflame blade) I don't think I want to go beyond 3 warlock lvls and might even just stick with 1 depending on how much I like the MC 2 lvl would be ideal just for the invocations available and the extra spell slot.

[Laserlight]

You can, as long as you're using a weapon, you can't use Booming Blade with an Unarmed Strike

"Jeremy Crawford ‏@JeremyECrawford Addressing a nuance in the PH errata: the rule lets melee weapon attacks use unarmed strikes, despite those strikes not being weapons."

[BladeWing81]

"Jeremy Crawford ‏@JeremyECrawford Addressing a nuance in the PH errata: the rule lets melee weapon attacks use unarmed strikes, despite those strikes not being weapons."

Normally you'd be right but the component requirements of booming blade and greenflame blade require a weapon not just a weapon attack.

[Maxilian]

Thanks for the Link, I participated on this thread when the sun soul came out. you mention radiant sun bolt is not a spell but since I have the MC warlock does it still work with magic items like staff of power or staff of the pack keeper for the +2 to spell attacks? those items especially the staff of power would make this build incredibly strong with the bonus to AC, saves, Melee attack/damage but I'm specially interested in the +2 spells attack. Does the +2 to spell attack count for radiant sun bolt?

The Sun Soul Monk attack is a spell attack, but the Rod of the Pact Keeper, specify it have to be done with a Warlock Spell (The SSM attack may be a Spell attack, but its not a spell nor a warlock thing), so it wouldn't work.

While holding this rod, you gain a bonus to spell attack rolls and to the saving throw DCs of your warlock spells.


But it works with:

The Staff of power, the Staff of Magi, the Staff of Woodland beings and the Robe of the Arch-mage does work for the Sun Soul attack (give +2 to Spell attack rolls).

Also the Talisman of Pure Good / Ultimate Evil also work

also the Wand of War Mage also does the trick.

Note: The Sun bolt is a Spell Attack (so as long as it mentions its a spell attack, then it works, but if it points out that its a Spell attack that is made with a Spell then its a no -weird, i know-)

[BladeWing81]

The Sun Soul Monk attack is a spell attack, but the Rod of the Pact Keeper, specify it have to be done with a Warlock Spell (The SSM attack may be a Spell attack, but its not a spell nor a warlock thing), so it wouldn't work.

While holding this rod, you gain a bonus to spell attack rolls and to the saving throw DCs of your warlock spells.


But it works with:

The Staff of power, the Staff of Magi, the Staff of Woodland beings and the Robe of the Arch-mage does work for the Sun Soul attack (give +2 to Spell attack rolls).

Also the Talisman of Pure Good / Ultimate Evil also work

also the Wand of War Mage also does the trick.

Note: The Sun bolt is a Spell Attack (so as long as it mentions its a spell attack, then it works, but if it points out that its a Spell attack that is made with a Spell then its a no -weird, i know-)

Just yesterday I got into a discussion about the sun bolts, WTF are they?
they are a range spell attack that can be done with the attack action. so they aren't cast

[Maxilian]

Just yesterday I got into a discussion about the sun bolts, WTF are they?
they are a range spell attack that can be done with the attack action. so they aren't cast

They are range spell attacks, but they are not spells, they are attacks (don't even count as weapon attack like the Unarmed Strike), they are just weird (That may or may not be good).

You could say that the Sun bolt is just a form of Ki (Instead of using Ki to empower you or your strikes, you use the Ki itself to hit people in the face)

[BladeWing81]

They are range spell attacks, but they are not spells, they are attacks (don't even count as weapon attack like the Unarmed Strike), they are just weird (That may or may not be good).

You could say that the Sun bolt is just a form of Ki (Instead of using Ki to empower you or your strikes, you use the Ki itself to hit people in the face)

Seems like MC with a caster class is the best thing for the sun soul since I get access to Magic items that improve my bolts then, maybe not damage wise but I can image the monk channeling the wand of the war mage or the staff of power seem like something pretty cool.