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loodwig
2017-02-24, 01:27 PM
So, I did an ass-pull the other night with my players. They were traveling to a moderately small town, investigating a possible slave trade, when they encountered a group of religious "pilgrims" on the road. They talked with them, and realized something was terribly wrong when only one guy was doing all the talking. His two companions were his captives, whom he had brutalized and planned to take to another city where they'd be executed properly as heretics. The party rolled (and more appropriately "role'd") and saw through this, and quickly took down the evil inquisitor. And this is where I painted myself into a corner.

The captives were druids who spoke (among other things) sylvan. However, they had their tongues removed, their mouths sewn shut, their scars obscured, and silence cast on them. The inquisitor was taking no chances... and he was a horrible human being. But this raised all sorts of problems for the group.

* How were the captives able to eat and drink during their captive journey? I can excuse some malnourishment, or figure there was a localized cast of "create food & water" in their mouths... but this really is stretching things. I kind of want to hand-wave this somehow, but dealing with two former captives who now have no means in which to feed themselves is an immediate concern of the party.
* How can the captives be restored to their former personhood? The only spell I found was the level 9 spell "regeneration," or the similar "ring of regeneration." This is not accessible to an APL4 party, not really. Could lesser restoration be used (somehow) to do something... anything?
* How can the party open their mouths without seriously hurting them? This seems "doable" because I can think of conventional means with which to do it. But would it be a "heal check" to cut open stitches and skin that has healed fast together? I can't find rules for field surgery in the PRD.

Obviously I want the party to solve this one, but I want to make sure it is solvable, or see if I should retcon certain aspects of the story to make it more believable. Maybe the mouths weren't sewn shut, but were bound by some kind of magic that the inquisitor could release only long enough for them to eat?

Any advice is appreciated.

Hawkstar
2017-02-24, 01:32 PM
Simple: Cut through the stitches in the lips. They didn't eat on their captive journey.

Yora
2017-02-24, 01:35 PM
I would simply admit that a mistake has been made and tell the players that certain details need to be changed because of it. I would probably have the two NPCs under a unique curse that prevents them from making any noise but doesn't interfere with eating and drinking. They still could have their tongues cut out for good measure if the players are already resolved to find healing magic for them.

All thw mechanical part depends on what game you're using.

Segev
2017-02-24, 01:39 PM
The inquisitor wasn't worried about their eating, nor was he a fine hand with stitching. They can't really open their mouths, but they can force a straw through them. He would have kept them hydrated, and let them otherwise starve. Humans can last a long time without food. Days, at least. Weeks, sometimes.

Depending on their level, the druids might have sufficient Wild Shape to stay in animal form a long time. If they can't be healed and returned to their priesthood, maybe they can become companions of the party and stay in animal form to avoid questions about their speechlessness.

If they can get back to their Circle, they could seek a level 7 fellow Druid (that's only one level above the party's average level) and be ritually sacrificed and reincarnated into healthy young adult humanoid bodies.

Darth Ultron
2017-02-24, 01:45 PM
Well, your talking ''sewed shut'' with like 12th century technology...right? Not like a 21st century battle field trauma master surgeon. Did the evil inquisitor do it? is he a ''doctor'' with like +10 ranks? If not the mouths might not be so ''shut'', just a bit ''closed''. There should at least be a ''straw hole''...if not more.

Honest Tiefling
2017-02-24, 01:49 PM
Rings of sustenance might explain a few things. Maybe they are special rings that got sewn in, and the druids, being exhausted, frightened and weary only now remember to mention that they have weird stuff in them. They might give this to the party in thanks for being freed and not wanting weird creepy stuff around.

The party isn't going to restore these guys to personhood...They're going to return them to an Archdruid who can. It's going to take more then a few spells given their trauma, and escorting them and treating them well will convince the archdruid (or a rival) who isn't too keen on these civilized folk to guide the party to a hideout the slavers use to capture slaves. Hence why the druids were so brutally treated, because they kept interfering and needed a bit of a lesson.
This means that by rescuing these people, they've uncovered more of the plot and it totally looks intentional.

Alternative rewards could be gear or spells or just a nice place to rest and be protected from the slavers.

Jay R
2017-02-24, 05:51 PM
Any custom spell you created yourself which has results you can't use has a duration that's almost up. Perhaps it lasted for one day, and their captor fed them in the morning and then re-cast it each day.

Alternatively, they were heretics who were to be executed in a few days. Why would their captor bother feeding them?

Nightcanon
2017-02-24, 09:12 PM
Once freed, the former captives can indicate who they are by writng (in the dirt with twigs, if necessary), and give sufficient information to the party that enables them to find a more powerful member of their faith who can restore them.

Pronounceable
2017-02-25, 03:39 AM
All seems relatively simple.

-He had a special "Feed A Dude" spell. You can let your players loot a scroll of it if you want, it can't be all that much higher level than Create Food+Water. Maybe ex captives can learn the spell themselves, they're also casters.
-Why do they need to be restored to personhood? They had a bad time but DnD is famously cavalier about all the trauma (except of course when high level magic is involved, in which case the solution is more high level magic). Refill their hp and they're good to go, they can just have their archdruid regenerate their tongues, assuming you don't simply rule that regular heals can fix them. If you really want them to be (very unDnDily) traumatized badly, lesser restoration might as well cure them of it.
-Skills mean characters know to do things players have no clue about. A Heal check will indeed be enough to solve the problem. If you want to go the pointlessly punitive way, just say there's no way to be gentle and make the players cast an extra heal spell for the extra hurting they need to put on the npcs.

There's no need to retcon anything here. You're right on track.

ImNotTrevor
2017-02-25, 09:50 AM
If the inquisitor has a ton of money and this is 3.5/PF he could have given them Clear Spindle ioun stones. If not the full deal, he could easily give them cracked or flawed versions. With the former we can assume they starve at half speed, giving about 6-8 weeks before they die. With the latter, they just need straws and water, easy to do between the stitches.

Honest Tiefling
2017-02-25, 11:47 AM
If the straw idea is used, I think a slurry like a porridge or ancient beer could be drunk through a thicker straw. Or a thinner one just broth or beer. Not terribly nutritious, but probably keeps them going long enough through calories alone.

Jarawara
2017-02-26, 09:17 PM
A lot of good ideas have already been posted, including the one on the straw and the comments on how you really haven't a problem at all. But I also wanted to focus a bit more on what Yora posted:


I would simply admit that a mistake has been made and tell the players that certain details need to be changed because of it.

This and so much more! Go ahead and admit your mistakes, and ask for your player's assistance. Say to them "I made a mistake that create's a logic fallacy and I don't know how to resolve it. What do you think?"

Your players will them analyse the situation and come up with solutions like "they could be fed by a straw", and suggest how the scars could be concealed to keep the inquisitor's actions hidden (since obviously, the players already solved that part, there's no problem with the players suggesting how it could have been done so that *most* people wouldn't see through it).

Obviously, in coming up with solutions on how to cure them, you shouldn't be asking the players to do that for you... and yet, you can do exactly that! Just wait to see what the players come up with as a solution, and if it sounds plausible, run with it. I have done that many a time, coming up with a situation that I myself do not see a solution to. My players, however, see it differently, and they find a resolution I had never considered.

By asking them for your advice, you show you trust their input, and that will lead to more of a co-operative design of your gameworld. They will know you value their input, and they will be more forgiving of small mistakes when you show you admit to them.

Get the players on your side by showing them you consider them to be on your side.

In fact, as a general rule, you want to train yourself to look to the player's resolutions, instead of coming up with a "this is the solution the players must discover". That path can lead you to unnecessarily shutting down a player's idea in favor of the idea you pre-conceived. Let them do the solving for you, and reward them for it.

The players have many more minds then you do. Use them.

*~*~*

Though it can be useful to have at least *one* possible solution in mind, just in case you really did create the unwinnable situation. But even if that occurs, just have a backup plan for "what if the players cannot solve this - then what?". And if it's really a problem... oh, I dunno, maybe ask your players for advice, as once you've done so in the past, and followed their advice, they'll be happy to help again in the future to fix the unfixable.

Your players are your friends. When you have a problem, turn to your friends.

Incorrect
2017-02-27, 08:41 AM
AFB, but aren't there a spoon that keeps you fed with gruel?
The evil guy has forced each of them to swallow such a spoon.

Its not coming out by it self, and the evil guy planned to retrieve the spoons after the execution.
They are now "cursed" to never grow hungry, unless the players can figure out a way to operate on them.

Their mouths needs to be cut open, and they will never be pretty again. Unless the players get creative.. its up to them to imagine a solution.

MrStabby
2017-02-27, 09:51 AM
Does the Knock spell work on any opening?

theasl
2017-02-27, 03:58 PM
Does the Knock spell work on any opening?

Hmm, maybe the evil guy cast Hold Portal on their mouths too :smallbiggrin: