Hit Points and Wounds

[tedcahill2]

How do people generally feel about the wounds system presented in unearthed arcana?

Short version: hit points work as normal, but once hit points are gone you start taking wounds. You can take a number of wounds equal to your Con before death. Additionally, critical hits no longer deal extra damage, instead a critical hit bypasses hit points and damages wounds directly.

[emeraldstreak]

How do people generally feel about the wounds system presented in unearthed arcana?

Short version: hit points work as normal, but once hit points are gone you start taking wounds. You can take a number of wounds equal to your Con before death. Additionally, critical hits no longer deal extra damage, instead a critical hit bypasses hit points and damages wounds directly.

Haven't played with this UA rule, however pre-SAGA SW d20 had a similar rule as core. It wasn't a bad rule, but I wasn't overly impressed. Also, SAGA's hitpoints+condition track system is superior as gameplay experience.

[Elkad]

I'm playing in a roll20 game with this. And no divine magic, so healing took some strange optimization.

Rather enjoying it actually.

We are still low level, so most of the critters we meet are running around on wound points only. One AoE from the DFA and all the badguys are fatigued. Handy.

I'm playing a 2/2 Crusader/Incarnate. Ability to heal myself for 5 wound (or vitality) on every hit - and more if I play Crusader Strike - is proving downright useful. I was at what would be -15 last session, but instead I was just at 0. Hit a monster, go back to 5wp. (of course if I'd missed, I'd be Dying - so don't miss)

[Fouredged Sword]

Fun at low levels, a bit of a problem at higher levels when base damage goes up enough that critical hits are always lethal. A keen scythe wielded by a high strength character WILL kill anyone it cits with power attack.

[Elkad]

Fun at low levels, a bit of a problem at higher levels when base damage goes up enough that critical hits are always lethal. A keen scythe wielded by a high strength character WILL kill anyone it cits with power attack.

What? Dying is even harder at high levels. It's an easy DC15 fort save, amount of damage doesn't change that. Make the save, you are still at 0 (disabled, but not dying). Then you heal yourself and get back in the fight.

The stun save is a problem (Fort, 5+dmg) is a problem, but as long as the whole party isn't stunned, you'll never die.

And of course all the regular ways to become resistant/immune to critical hits still apply. If you can manage that plus immunity to stunning, just don't fail that DC15 fort save and you'll live forever. (Unless the enemy manages to coup-de-grace you). Sure, you'll be at 0hp, but I can hit you for another 1000dmg and you'll still be at 0.

[Ashtagon]

What? Dying is even harder at high levels. It's an easy DC15 fort save, amount of damage doesn't change that. Make the save, you are still at 0 (disabled, but not dying). Then you heal yourself and get back in the fight.

The stun save is a problem (Fort, 5+dmg) is a problem, but as long as the whole party isn't stunned, you'll never die.

And of course all the regular ways to become resistant/immune to critical hits still apply. If you can manage that plus immunity to stunning, just don't fail that DC15 fort save and you'll live forever. (Unless the enemy manages to coup-de-grace you). Sure, you'll be at 0hp, but I can hit you for another 1000dmg and you'll still be at 0.

It's not the massive damage that gets you in this variant. It's the fact that critical hits bypass hp (aka vitality) and go straight to wounds. You have wound points equal to your Constitution score. And if you can't deal damage equal to the target's Constitution with a scythe critical hit, you're just not trying very hard.

[Fouredged Sword]

It basically becomes you ether make a DC 15 fort save imposible to fail or disabled is out of combat. Every standard action is a fort save VS death. Yeah you can do some funny stuff to make an immortal who cannot fail a DC 15 fort save and can act normally while disabled, but that's system abuse.

[Elkad]

It's not the massive damage that gets you in this variant. It's the fact that critical hits bypass hp (aka vitality) and go straight to wounds. You have wound points equal to your Constitution score. And if you can't deal damage equal to the target's Constitution with a scythe critical hit, you're just not trying very hard.

You need to read all the rules for Wound Points I think. No dmg multiplier on crits. So a scythe and a falchion are functionally identical, other than weight.

[Ashtagon]

You need to read all the rules for Wound Points I think. No dmg multiplier on crits. So a scythe and a falchion are functionally identical, other than weight.

Base damage is 5 points average. And if you haven't got +6 from Strength, another +1 enhancement, another +1d6 from some kind of elemental damage bonus, and another +2 because of a virtual (or real) size increase), you're not trying. That's 17.5 damage average. And I'm not used to playing melee, so I'm clearly not trying very hard. Imagine the average damage that someone who is serious about melee damage could do. Remember, you only need to crit and then beat their Con score to down the enemy.

So yeah. The thing that takes people down in vitality + wounds is the "skip the hp" bit about critical hits.

[Fouredged Sword]

That 4xcrit turns into a wide crit range. Add Keen and you crit a lot. Pair that with two handed power attack for +10 or so damage (a crit fisher wants to hit on a 15 or so) and it is VERY easy to hit a 24-30 damage crit. At low levels power attack has yet to take off and turn into something crazy, but it gets there pretty quick with 1-2 conversion of attack to damage. Add on 1.5 str modifier and even weapon focus and specialization if you really want to get silly.

2d4 (5 av) + 6 (19 str) + 10 (-5 power attack)+ 1 enhancement = 22 average damage.

Not many things have a 22 con at level 10 and that isn't eventrying to hard. Charge will add another two, barbarian rage another 3 and pounce...

I actually like the system, you just need to be aware that there are builds that exploit the system to be very deadly in a way that extra HD does not help to defend.

And on the other hand it is possible, easy even, to get a +14 fort save and the ability to pass fort saves on a 1 and act normally while disabled. If you do so, you cannot die to HP damage.

[Telok]

So how does the system deal with ToB stuff? Or does it just fall apart when exposed to "damage equals 1d20 + concentration skill" or "normal damage + 1d6+IL fire damage"?