What Do You Do For Fun?

[Bartmanhomer]

For fun, I go to the movies with a friend, I read books at Barnes and Noble, I write stories and I play D&D 3.5. What do you do for fun? :smile:

[Aedilred]

For fun, I go to the movies with a friend, I read books at Barnes and Noble, I write stories and I play D&D 3.5. What do you do for fun? :smile:

You read at the bookshop... but do you buy the books you're reading?

[Bartmanhomer]

You read at the bookshop... but do you buy the books you're reading?
I rarely buy books.

[Razade]

Why is this it's own thread?

[Aedilred]

I rarely buy books.

You monster.

In all seriousness, it is a problem. Everyone likes bookshops, but the business model is struggling, and a chain of events that leads to pretty much all high-street book retailers folding is utterly plausible; in the UK at least, some already have and the remainder are either on their knees or have diversified so far out of books that they don't really qualify as "bookshops" any more. So it really can't help that some people treat the place like a library. While there is something to be said for providing a comfortable environment where customers can feel free to sit and read, if the browsing-only mentality becomes entrenched, I'm not sure that the benefits that accrue from having one are worth the losses in terms of product damage from people who read but don't buy, and the space lost to providing browsing areas that could otherwise be used for stock (or downsizing and thus saving on rents).

I'm not going to string anyone up for reading in a bookshop without buying anything*, but I would encourage habitual browsers to buy books they find interesting. It's only polite, after all. And you'd miss it if it weren't there.

*unless they break the spine, fold down page corners, or otherwise despoil the book, in which case death is too good for them


Why is this it's own thread?

It's Bartmanhomer. There's not much point fighting the madness.

[Bartmanhomer]

You monster.

In all seriousness, it is a problem. Everyone likes bookshops, but the business model is struggling, and a chain of events that leads to pretty much all high-street book retailers folding is utterly plausible; in the UK at least, some already have and the remainder are either on their knees or have diversified so far out of books that they don't really qualify as "bookshops" any more. So it really can't help that some people treat the place like a library. While there is something to be said for providing a comfortable environment where customers can feel free to sit and read, if the browsing-only mentality becomes entrenched, I'm not sure that the benefits that accrue from having one are worth the losses in terms of product damage from people who read but don't buy, and the space lost to providing browsing areas that could otherwise be used for stock (or downsizing and thus saving on rents).

I'm not going to string anyone up for reading in a bookshop without buying anything*, but I would encourage habitual browsers to buy books they find interesting. It's only polite, after all. And you'd miss it if it weren't there.

*unless they break the spine, fold down page corners, or otherwise despoil the book, in which case death is too good for them



It's Bartmanhomer. There's not much point fighting the madness.Oh yeah. I forgot to mention that I also go to the library to go on the internet and borrow a book from the library.

[Bicorn]

Yeah I mean it's ok to take a quick look or a small peek to check if that books is relaly what you want to buy.

But stay there reading it for free is kind of a thing people do that is actually wrong, like save places in lines.

Use goodreads to check if the book is good or not.

[Bartmanhomer]

Yeah I mean it's ok to take a quick look or a small peek to check if that books is relaly what you want to buy.

But stay there reading it for free is kind of a thing people do that is actually wrong, like save places in lines.

Use goodreads to check if the book is good or not.Well if that the case wouldn't the employee or the manager would mention that to me already? :confused:

[Bicorn]

Well if that the case wouldn't the employee or the manager would mention that to me already? :confused:

It's just that so many people do it that, I think they just gave up. But it still not something cool.

[Bartmanhomer]

It's just that so many people do it that, I think they just gave up. But it still not soemthing cool.

Well I read Barnes and Noble all the time and I never heard any problems or complaing about reading a book for free. And truthfully this is my first time hearing about this.

[Aedilred]

Well if that the case wouldn't the employee or the manager would mention that to me already? :confused:

Only if you are semi-actively causing a nuisance and bothering other customers, or causing obvious and visible damage to stock or furnishings, etc, I suspect. At a glance you can't tell whether someone has bought the book they're reading or have just taken it off the shelf; you might also have a good customer who buys a lot more than their fair share so who, even if they haven't bought the book they're currently reading, is still paying their way. Then there are some people who are using the space to kill time but intend to make purchases of the items they're reading on the way out. Ascertaining whether you belong to one of those categories or are just a freeloader is not easy and probably not worth the time it would take the employees. Moreover, they probably reckon they can't afford to alienate any potential customers, so challenging customers is a risk. Especially since if that customer causes a fuss or is difficult, it will cause a scene that will bother other customers and thus cause more problems than it solved. So I think things would have to get pretty bad for them to say something overtly.

Were I a manager of a bookshop - and as someone who loves books I think I am probably one of the last people who should be a bookshop manager, but that's beside the point - if there were an individual who came in once or twice a week and sat around reading the merchandise but never bought anything, it would infuriate me beyond measure. But I almost certainly wouldn't say or do anything about it unless they were causing a measurable problem; I'd just let it quietly give me an ulcer.

The most you're likely to get is an occasional approach by a member of staff to ask "if you need any help with anything", in the hope that people will be embarrassed into either buying something or leaving.

To put it another way: the bookshops provide you with a comfortable environment where you can sit and read because they need you to buy something from them. If you take advantage of the facilities without ever buying anything, it's a breach of that implied agreement. It's not illegal, but it's not wholly ethical either, in my opinion at least. Compare: regularly using the bathroom at a restaurant or café without ever buying anything from it.

[Red Fel]

Well if that the case wouldn't the employee or the manager would mention that to me already? :confused:

They really can't. Unless you're causing a disturbance or damaging the merchandise, they can really only be nice to you and hope you'll end up buying what you read. If they crack down on you, it's more likely you won't buy anything; if they let you graze, you at least might.


Well I read Barnes and Noble all the time and I never heard any problems or complaing about reading a book for free. And truthfully this is my first time hearing about this.

It's common sense. Think about it. If you go to a store with a salad bar - like a Whole Foods or Fresh Market or whatever - you don't expect that you can just linger around the salad bar and eat croutons, can you? Of course not; they sell those. That's their stock in trade. Or say you walk into a movie theater and decide to sit and watch for an hour or so. Of course you can't do that; showing movies is their stock in trade, you don't get to come in and do that for free. You don't get to partake of their stock in trade for free, is the point.

Similar premise with a book store - their books are their stock in trade. If you go there, read the book, and don't pay for it, you've basically gotten a free book. Sure, unlike the croutons, they can resell it (nobody wants your used croutons), but that doesn't change the fact that you got the experience of that book for free. The reason they let people read them is in the hope that you pick it up, glance over a few pages, and say, "I'd like to take this home with me." That you buy what they're selling.

We already have a place where you can read books for free. It's called a library. Booksellers are in the business, as their name suggests, of selling books. It's just sense.

[Bartmanhomer]

Only if you are semi-actively causing a nuisance and bothering other customers, or causing obvious and visible damage to stock or furnishings, etc, I suspect. At a glance you can't tell whether someone has bought the book they're reading or have just taken it off the shelf; you might also have a good customer who buys a lot more than their fair share so who, even if they haven't bought the book they're currently reading, is still paying their way. Then there are some people who are using the space to kill time but intend to make purchases of the items they're reading on the way out. Ascertaining whether you belong to one of those categories or are just a freeloader is not easy and probably not worth the time it would take the employees. Moreover, they probably reckon they can't afford to alienate any potential customers, so challenging customers is a risk. Especially since if that customer causes a fuss or is difficult, it will cause a scene that will bother other customers and thus cause more problems than it solved. So I think things would have to get pretty bad for them to say something overtly.

Were I a manager of a bookshop - and as someone who loves books I think I am probably one of the last people who should be a bookshop manager, but that's beside the point - if there were an individual who came in once or twice a week and sat around reading the merchandise but never bought anything, it would infuriate me beyond measure. But I almost certainly wouldn't say or do anything about it unless they were causing a measurable problem; I'd just let it quietly give me an ulcer.

The most you're likely to get is an occasional approach by a member of staff to ask "if you need any help with anything", in the hope that people will be embarrassed into either buying something or leaving.Well I definitely don't bother other customers and I don't damages the stored property. It's legal where I live and I see other people who read books, put the books back on the shelf and left the store without any problems at all.

[Avianmosquito]

I do tabletops when I can and I've got a D&D campaign setting I'm working on a bit here and there, but most of my free time I play video games. I tried For Honor recently, I liked it but can't get a copy for a while. I've been playing Bloodborne half to death, I can't get enough of that game.

[Aedilred]

Well I definitely don't bother other customers and I don't damages the stored property. It's legal where I live and I see other people who read books, put the books back on the shelf and left the store without any problems at all.

Nobody's saying it's illegal. But that's a very low bar for determining what's acceptable. That bookshops don't challenge "customers" over doing it is because they're polite and/or desperate, not because they're fine with it or it's not causing them problems. That a lot of people do it is evidence only that it's widespread, not that it's A-OK.

[Bartmanhomer]

Nobody's saying it's illegal. But that's a very low bar for determining what's acceptable. That bookshops don't challenge "customers" over doing it is because they're polite and/or desperate, not because they're fine with it or it's not causing them problems. That a lot of people do it is evidence only that it's widespread, not that it's A-OK.if I want to buy a book, Cool I'll do that. If I want to read a book, put it back on the shelf without being a pest, That's OK as well. I really don't see any red flags to it. :confused:

[Bicorn]

I do tabletops when I can and I've got a D&D campaign setting I'm working on a bit here and there, but most of my free time I play video games. I tried For Honor recently, I liked it but can't get a copy for a while. I've been playing Bloodborne half to death, I can't get enough of that game.

Bloodborne is one of my favorite games too. I started playing dark souls 3 but I just end up going back to bloodborne.

[Red Fel]

if I want to buy a book, Cool I'll do that. If I want to read a book, put it back on the shelf without being a pest, That's OK as well. I really don't see any red flags to it. :confused:

What is legal and permissible is a baseline. What is right falls above that. The fact that there's no law or rule saying you can't do something doesn't make it okay to do that thing.

And I just realized the horrible irony of me explaining that to, well, anyone.

[Bartmanhomer]

What is legal and permissible is a baseline. What is right falls above that. The fact that there's no law or rule saying you can't do something doesn't make it okay to do that thing.

And I just realized the horrible irony of me explaining that to, well, anyone.
Like I said before, if the employee and manager doesn't have an issue for what I'm doing. I'm good to go.

[Avianmosquito]

Bloodborne is one of my favorite games too. I started playing dark souls 3 but I just end up going back to bloodborne.

I also like Dark Souls 3, but I think it takes the wrong lessons from Bloodborne and uses mechanics that don't work as well with its setting or playstyle, though it is ultimately still a great game.

[Aedilred]

if I want to buy a book, Cool I'll do that. If I want to read a book, put it back on the shelf without being a pest, That's OK as well. I really don't see any red flags to it. :confused:

Let's imagine that instead of reading the book in the shop, you take it out of the shop with you without paying and go home or to a coffee shop to read it, then come back and put it back on the shelf when you're done. That would be illegal.

But morally, what is the difference between that and reading the book in the shop? You have paid no money in either scenario. You have read the book, and (assuming it takes the same amount of time) the book has been unavailable for purchase for the same period.

If anything, by staying in the shop to read it, you're taking up space that could be used by legitimate customers and therefore causing the shop more problems than if you'd taken the book somewhere else and brought it back later.

As you say, reading books in the shop and not buying them is legal. But it's only legal on what amounts to a technicality, and is, I would argue, dishonest on at least some level.


Like I said before, if the employee and manager doesn't have an issue for what I'm doing. I'm good to go.

They almost certainly do, or would, if they were aware you did this habitually. That they might not have expressed this problem to you in terms you recognise doesn't necessarily mean they don't have a problem with the behaviour. And in any case there is a responsibility to self-police, I think. Otherwise you're operating in the same sort of territory as "it's not illegal if you don't get caught".

[Bartmanhomer]

Let's imagine that instead of reading the book in the shop, you take it out of the shop with you without paying and go home or to a coffee shop to read it, then come back and put it back on the shelf when you're done. That would be illegal.

But morally, what is the difference between that and reading the book in the shop? You have paid no money in either scenario. You have read the book, and (assuming it takes the same amount of time) the book has been unavailable for purchase for the same period.

If anything, by staying in the shop to read it, you're taking up space that could be used by legitimate customers and therefore causing the shop more problems than if you'd taken the book somewhere else and brought it back later.

As you say, reading books in the shop and not buying them is legal. But it's only legal on what amounts to a technicality, and is, I would argue, dishonest on at least some level.



They almost certainly do, or would, if they were aware you did this habitually. That they might not have expressed this problem to you in terms you recognise doesn't necessarily mean they don't have a problem with the behaviour. And in any case there is a responsibility to self-police, I think. Otherwise you're operating in the same sort of territory as "it's not illegal if you don't get caught".
OK. You made your point. I didn't know it would be that much of a problem even though that none of the employees didn't assert them and do their jobs the right way. :annoyed:

[Aedilred]

OK. You made your point. I didn't know it would be that much of a problem even though that none of the employees didn't assert them and do their jobs the right way. :annoyed:

While it's a part of their job, it's a low-priority part of their job and one they wouldn't have to do if people weren't trying to take advantage of them. Bookshops can't afford to have too many idle employees, given the whole "struggling business" thing. I'm not 100% about the US, but now I think about it I don't think I've ever seen a visible security guard at a bookshop, even a big one. Employees already have to handle sales, answer queries, restock shelves, and so on. If they have time to monitor individual customers to the extent they'd be able to challenge them confidently about reading books they're not going to buy, they either have too much time on their hands or they have the sort of enthusiastic work ethic that'll either see them promoted out of that position pretty quickly or will be beaten out of them almost equally quickly by the demands of a retail job.

These things cut both ways. If someone is causing a problem, that's still their fault, even if there's someone who could have asked them not to continue causing the problem but for whatever reason hasn't.

[T-Mick]

For fun, I go to the movies with a friend, I read books at Barnes and Noble, I write stories and I play D&D 3.5. What do you do for fun? :smile:

All praise.

I read, but I'm really picky. Poetry and ancient literature. Maybe it's narrow minded, but hey. I study languages and linguistics; phonology is my kick right now. I write poetry, but it isn't very good. I love poetic theory though, so I'm a happy versifier. Sometimes I go on campus and play the fool with students. It's a lot of fun. I LOVE to dance, and sing too, but my dancing is much better than my singing. Drinking songs are the best though. I like picnics most of the year. I like to drive long distances. I'm not much a gamer; when I was younger, I played roguelikes, but not much anymore. Nethack gave me enough knowledge to enjoy the comics here, so I read them. I've never met a stranger, so I love talking to people. I run a local book club.

I want to get into conlanging, improve my poetry, and learn to play an instrument. Guitar maybe?

When you die, and they give you the reincarnation option, pick my life. It's a good one!

Also, I read Bartmanhomer's threads. Whenever I see a new one, I get all excited. It's the only thing that keeps me coming back here anymore!

[Bartmanhomer]

While it's a part of their job, it's a low-priority part of their job and one they wouldn't have to do if people weren't trying to take advantage of them. Bookshops can't afford to have too many idle employees, given the whole "struggling business" thing. I'm not 100% about the US, but now I think about it I don't think I've ever seen a visible security guard at a bookshop, even a big one. Employees already have to handle sales, answer queries, restock shelves, and so on. If they have time to monitor individual customers to the extent they'd be able to challenge them confidently about reading books they're not going to buy, they either have too much time on their hands or they have the sort of enthusiastic work ethic that'll either see them promoted out of that position pretty quickly or will be beaten out of them almost equally quickly by the demands of a retail job.

These things cut both ways. If someone is causing a problem, that's still their fault, even if there's someone who could have asked them not to continue causing the problem but for whatever reason hasn't.
How do you know so much about this information anyway. Do you have a college degree in business? :smile:

[Xanyo]

I find it interesting that there are two conversations on this thread - one about the original topic and one about reading books in book stores.

On the actual main topic, well, I'm completely obsessed with D&D, and don't really do much else other than drawing.

[lio45]

https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/bookstore.png

[Aedilred]

How do you know so much about this information anyway. Do you have a college degree in business? :smile:

No, although I have paid attention to some of the trends in the bookselling industry over the last few years out of general interest and because I was once looking at trying to make a career in publishing. I also worked in retail, once upon a time. But I don't think any particular specialist knowledge is needed in this case; I would consider most of what I've said to fall under the admittedly optimistically-named categories of common knowledge and/or sense. :smallwink:

[lio45]

I'm not going to string anyone up for reading in a bookshop without buying anything*, but I would encourage habitual browsers to buy books they find interesting. It's only polite, after all. And you'd miss it if it weren't there.

*unless they break the spine, fold down page corners, or otherwise despoil the book, in which case death is too good for them

But how can you find your page when you come back to the bookshop the next evening to resume your reading if you can't fold down the corner of the page where you left it last time?

[Bartmanhomer]

https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/bookstore.png
Funny. :smile:

[lio45]

Like I said before, if the employee and manager doesn't have an issue for what I'm doing. I'm good to go.

Yeah, no. That's really bad logic. "Hey, I just noticed that I can get away with being a douchebag, and as long as no one dares point it out to my face, then I'll happily continue to actively be a douchebag permanently."

[Xyril]

Well I definitely don't bother other customers and I don't damages the stored property. It's legal where I live and I see other people who read books, put the books back on the shelf and left the store without any problems at all.

This is borderline straw-manning/moving the goalposts. Nobody here has argued that what you're doing is illegal. So, well done refuting the argument nobody made.

They're arguing that the behavior is inconsiderate, and borderline unethical. It's the kind of thing that bothers most shop owners I've spoken too, but as others have mentioned in this thread, nobody has figured out a pragmatic way to stop it.

We can compare it to something I think even you would agree is both illegal and unethical: shoplifting. Shoplifting undeniably hurts stores. It is also undeniably something they want to stop. But in most circumstances, stores shop short of doing everything they can. For smaller stores, hiring security or installing those anti-theft systems and tagging every item would reduce shoplifting--but they don't do it because they can't afford the big investment, or they figure that their losses from shoplifting are smaller than the cost of paying for security. In bigger clothing stores that do have security, changing rooms remain a major point of failure. It's very hard to remove the security tags out in the open without attracting attention. It's easy, however, to quickly hide merchandise on your person (which is why those tags are useful in the first place), sneak them into the changing room, and remove security tags where there is nobody watching. In most places it would be legal--and arguably moral--to put cameras in there so long as the customer is fully informed that the cameras are there. However, I can't think of a single store that does that, not because they particularly want people to use the changing rooms for shoplifting, but because taking such extreme steps would be absolutely hated by their honest customers.

Actually, speaking of shoplifting, I have witnessed at least a half dozen incidents in my life where someone blatantly shoplifted from Walmart--they were pushing a cart full of unbagged items, the alarm went off, the guy started running faster. At this point, one time the old greeter at the door yelled at them to stop, but during all the other incidents, nobody actively tried to stop the guy.

By your logic, the shoplifting was acceptable. Nobody chased after the shoplifters, nobody tried to stop them physically, nobody said "Hey, you're taking that without paying and we strongly object!"

By my reckoning, "Walmart welcomes shoplifting" is a far less likely explanation than that maybe none of the Walmart employees near the door thought they were paid well enough to risk their lives stopping a guy brazen enough to steal from a Walmart in a bad neighborhood in broad daylight.


Like I said before, if the employee and manager doesn't have an issue for what I'm doing. I'm good to go.

Actually, this is untrue on two levels. First, you never said that the employee and manager don't have an issue with what you're doing. You said that they never tried to stop you.

Second, it's very unlikely that the employer and manager don't have a problem with it.

You infer that from the fact that they haven't actively confronted you... which frankly flies in the face of common understanding of how interpersonal interactions work. There are some people who say whatever comes to mind without much regard for the consequences; these people are a minority. Most people devote at least a small part of their minds to empathy and consideration, not to mention self-interest and self-presentation. Maybe your roommate's constantly leaving dirty dishes in the sink bothers you, but you don't say anything about it because the confrontation would be worse than dealing with his lack of consideration. Maybe the air crew has absolutely no interest in rewarding the unruly passenger by comping him free drinks and snacks--but they do it anyway because their first priority is to avoid the sort of mid-air confrontation that endangers the plane and inconveniences every other passenger when they have to land at the nearest airport. Maybe you have a big problem with the middle eastern looking guys in the big bulky jackets chanting "Death to America," or the guys wearing the white robes and hoods and carrying AR-15s telling black people to go back to Africa... but like the vast majority of people, you stay away rather than confronting them because those guys are probably crazy and you'd rather not die.

Of course, I could be wrong. So next time, ask them. As a regular, they probably recognize you, so have a chat. Mention that you enjoy hanging out there. Mention all the guys you see reading and never buying anything, and say that you're one of them, and ask them their opinion on the subject. And finally, try to remember what they say, in their own words, as best as you can, and repeat it here. Aedilred and I clearly already have our opinions, based on our own experiences and conversations with people we each know in the industry. But I always enjoy hearing someone else's perspective on a topic, and he seems like the sort of guy who might as well.

[Bartmanhomer]

This is borderline straw-manning/moving the goalposts. Nobody here has argued that what you're doing is illegal. So, well done refuting the argument nobody made.

They're arguing that the behavior is inconsiderate, and borderline unethical. It's the kind of thing that bothers most shop owners I've spoken too, but as others have mentioned in this thread, nobody has figured out a pragmatic way to stop it.

We can compare it to something I think even you would agree is both illegal and unethical: shoplifting. Shoplifting undeniably hurts stores. It is also undeniably something they want to stop. But in most circumstances, stores shop short of doing everything they can. For smaller stores, hiring security or installing those anti-theft systems and tagging every item would reduce shoplifting--but they don't do it because they can't afford the big investment, or they figure that their losses from shoplifting are smaller than the cost of paying for security. In bigger clothing stores that do have security, changing rooms remain a major point of failure. It's very hard to remove the security tags out in the open without attracting attention. It's easy, however, to quickly hide merchandise on your person (which is why those tags are useful in the first place), sneak them into the changing room, and remove security tags where there is nobody watching. In most places it would be legal--and arguably moral--to put cameras in there so long as the customer is fully informed that the cameras are there. However, I can't think of a single store that does that, not because they particularly want people to use the changing rooms for shoplifting, but because taking such extreme steps would be absolutely hated by their honest customers.

Actually, speaking of shoplifting, I have witnessed at least a half dozen incidents in my life where someone blatantly shoplifted from Walmart--they were pushing a cart full of unbagged items, the alarm went off, the guy started running faster. At this point, one time the old greeter at the door yelled at them to stop, but during all the other incidents, nobody actively tried to stop the guy.

By your logic, the shoplifting was acceptable. Nobody chased after the shoplifters, nobody tried to stop them physically, nobody said "Hey, you're taking that without paying and we strongly object!"

By my reckoning, "Walmart welcomes shoplifting" is a far less likely explanation than that maybe none of the Walmart employees near the door thought they were paid well enough to risk their lives stopping a guy brazen enough to steal from a Walmart in a bad neighborhood in broad daylight.



Actually, this is untrue on two levels. First, you never said that the employee and manager don't have an issue with what you're doing. You said that they never tried to stop you.

Second, it's very unlikely that the employer and manager don't have a problem with it.

You infer that from the fact that they haven't actively confronted you... which frankly flies in the face of common understanding of how interpersonal interactions work. There are some people who say whatever comes to mind without much regard for the consequences; these people are a minority. Most people devote at least a small part of their minds to empathy and consideration, not to mention self-interest and self-presentation. Maybe your roommate's constantly leaving dirty dishes in the sink bothers you, but you don't say anything about it because the confrontation would be worse than dealing with his lack of consideration. Maybe the air crew has absolutely no interest in rewarding the unruly passenger by comping him free drinks and snacks--but they do it anyway because their first priority is to avoid the sort of mid-air confrontation that endangers the plane and inconveniences every other passenger when they have to land at the nearest airport. Maybe you have a big problem with the middle eastern looking guys in the big bulky jackets chanting "Death to America," or the guys wearing the white robes and hoods and carrying AR-15s telling black people to go back to Africa... but like the vast majority of people, you stay away rather than confronting them because those guys are probably crazy and you'd rather not die.

Of course, I could be wrong. So next time, ask them. As a regular, they probably recognize you, so have a chat. Mention that you enjoy hanging out there. Mention all the guys you see reading and never buying anything, and say that you're one of them, and ask them their opinion on the subject. And finally, try to remember what they say, in their own words, as best as you can, and repeat it here. Aedilred and I clearly already have our opinions, based on our own experiences and conversations with people we each know in the industry. But I always enjoy hearing someone else's perspective on a topic, and he seems like the sort of guy who might as well.

First off I never said anything about shoplifting. I just said that I read the book and put it back on the shelf where I found it.

[golentan]

On topic: I hang out on gaming forums, play games, cook, go for long hikes, and listen to music. Listening to music (or, lately, people playing games/reviewing recipes/reading stories or news) is one of my favorites cuz it can enhance the experience of whatever else I'm doing at the time.


First off I never said anything about shoplifting. I just said that I read the book and put it back on the shelf where I found it.

Which still means you enjoyed the store's product without paying them for it, and are a lost sale. Most book stores are struggling to stay afloat (see the mass closures of both small stores and big chains like Borders) so they can't really afford to give away the product for free. To put it in restaurant, you're basically taking advantage of a policy of giving out free samples (intended so people can know what they intend to order and enjoy their experience) to eat a meal sized portion, saying "Wow, that was delicious," and when asked if you'd like a table saying "Oh, no thanks, I'm stuffed. I just ate."

It's not illegal. It's still a jerk move. Any time I go to my favorite bookstore, I'll at least order a coffee in the shop to support them even if none of the books I look at seems like a good read, in part to counterbalance out stuff like this.

[Bartmanhomer]

On topic: I hang out on gaming forums, play games, cook, go for long hikes, and listen to music. Listening to music (or, lately, people playing games/reviewing recipes/reading stories or news) is one of my favorites cuz it can enhance the experience of whatever else I'm doing at the time.



Which still means you enjoyed the store's product without paying them for it, and are a lost sale. Most book stores are struggling to stay afloat (see the mass closures of both small stores and big chains like Borders) so they can't really afford to give away the product for free. To put it in restaurant, you're basically taking advantage of a policy of giving out free samples (intended so people can know what they intend to order and enjoy their experience) to eat a meal sized portion, saying "Wow, that was delicious," and when asked if you'd like a table saying "Oh, no thanks, I'm stuffed. I just ate."

It's not illegal. It's still a jerk move. Any time I go to my favorite bookstore, I'll at least order a coffee in the shop to support them even if none of the books I look at seems like a good read, in part to counterbalance out stuff like this.
If you say so. :confused:

[Xyril]

First off I never said anything about shoplifting. I just said that I read the book and put it back on the shelf where I found it.

First off, I know what I wrote is long, but if you're going to comment on anything, please at least take the time to read what it is you're commenting on. I never accused you of shoplifting.

Let me repeat that, in case you had trouble parsing it the first time.

I never accused you of shoplifting.

(Thanks, by the way, for demonstrating a spot on straw man argument.)

I specifically raised shoplifting as an example because I wanted to use an analogy that is, and I quote (myself) "something I think even you would agree is both illegal and unethical." And, perhaps something more importantly, something that I think even you would agree that shop owners really don't find acceptable, regardless of whether they're willing to take steps to do anything about it.

You see, the point I was trying to make, which evidently sailed over your head as you were busy being offended by the fact that I you thought I was accusing you of shoplifting (Once more, with feeling: I never accused you of shoplifting.) is that people don't always confront people over things that bother them, for a number of reasons. The fact that they are too timid, too polite, too lazy, or too pragmatic to confront someone over their behavior does not necessarily mean that they condone or accept that behavior.

I'm rather disappointed that you are apparently unwilling to simply ask the shop owner and the manager whether or not they are okay with people doing as you do. If you're as much of a regular as you say you are, and you never buy anything, at the very least you could say hi, maybe make some conversation once in a while.

tl;dr version

I never accused you of shoplifting.

[Bartmanhomer]

First off, I know what I wrote is long, but if you're going to comment on anything, please at least take the time to read what it is you're commenting on. I never accused you of shoplifting.

Let me repeat that, in case you had trouble parsing it the first time.

I never accused you of shoplifting.

(Thanks, by the way, for demonstrating a spot on straw man argument.)

I specifically raised shoplifting as an example because I wanted to use an analogy that is, and I quote (myself) "something I think even you would agree is both illegal and unethical." And, perhaps something more importantly, something that I think even you would agree that shop owners really don't find acceptable, regardless of whether they're willing to take steps to do anything about it.

You see, the point I was trying to make, which evidently sailed over your head as you were busy being offended by the fact that I you thought I was accusing you of shoplifting (Once more, with feeling: I never accused you of shoplifting.) is that people don't always confront people over things that bother them, for a number of reasons. The fact that they are too timid, too polite, too lazy, or too pragmatic to confront someone over their behavior does not necessarily mean that they condone or accept that behavior.
OK then. I'm sorry if I misunderstood. :frown:

[Xyril]

OK then. I'm sorry if I misunderstood. :frown:

Seriously though, please talk to the book store owner. If you could misunderstand what I was pretty clearly stating, with the opportunity to read and reread and parse everything at a pace that you are comfortable with, then maybe, just maybe, when you're interacting with the shop owner and the manager, you could be missing some subtle social cues or some subtle hints that others might read between the lines. Maybe what they have to say will surprise you. Or maybe what they say will surprise me, and he'll say that I'm wrong, and that he actually likes having all the non-paying customers hanging out, perhaps because they make his day more fun, or they help create an atmosphere that the paying customers appreciate. Either way, I'm quite curious, and you might benefit from getting to know the guys who run one of the places you frequent.

[Razade]

I'm rather disappointed that you are apparently unwilling to simply ask the shop owner and the manager whether or not they are okay with people doing as you do. If you're as much of a regular as you say you are, and you never buy anything, at the very least you could say hi, maybe make some conversation once in a while.

I'd suspect that Homer's autism might have something to do with why this never occurred to him. Not defending him really, just pointing out that social situations are often difficult for people on the spectrum.

[Bartmanhomer]

Seriously though, please talk to the book store owner. If you could misunderstand what I was pretty clearly stating, with the opportunity to read and reread and parse everything at a pace that you are comfortable with, then maybe, just maybe, when you're interacting with the shop owner and the manager, you could be missing some subtle social cues or some subtle hints that others might read between the lines. Maybe what they have to say will surprise you. Or maybe what they say will surprise me, and he'll say that I'm wrong, and that he actually likes having all the non-paying customers hanging out, perhaps because they make his day more fun, or they help create an atmosphere that the paying customers appreciate. Either way, I'm quite curious, and you might benefit from getting to know the guys who run one of the places you frequent.I will asked the store owner about this. :smile:

[2D8HP]

Oh sheesh.

It's a rare month that I don't go to multiple bookstores and spend hundreds of dollars, so I'm sure that I buy enough that I don't find time to read, that my purchases balance out Bartmanhomer's reading.

I was once young with less money but more time than now and I did the same thing Bartmanhomer says he does, and I'm confident I've since paid back more than fourfold.

If bookstores are struggling I'm sure it's because rents are high and incomes are low.

Speaking of which:


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I-BYzaDwNoE

[Xyril]

I'd suspect that Homer's autism might have something to do with why this never occurred to him. Not defending him really, just pointing out that social situations are often difficult for people on the spectrum.

That's fair, and I hope that he didn't interpret my comment as an attack that required defending (though reading my wording, I can absolutely see that it was reasonable to read it that way.)

Also, I didn't know Barthomer was autistic--now that I do, I realize a couple offhand comments I made could be construed as making fun. That was not my intent, and I apologize for my insensitivity and any offense.

[Razade]

Also, I didn't know Barthomer was autistic--now that I do, I realize a couple offhand comments I made could be construed as making fun. That was not my intent, and I apologize for my insensitivity and any offense.

Well. He certainly claims it. This being the internet, there's no real way of knowing one way or the other 100%.

[Avianmosquito]

Well. He certainly claims it. This being the internet, there's no real way of knowing one way or the other 100%.

Right, this is the internet. And here's my two cents about unprovable claims, like every third claim on the internet tends to be. I pretended to have asbergers as an excuse to be a **** for four years starting around 2002. I was hardly the only teenage jerkass to have this idea. At one point or another, literally everybody I know has pretended to be something else on the internet to get preferential treatment, not counting how many pretend to be female.

Now I don't know the guy, but whenever somebody claims to have any traits or conditions that they can't prove and could conceivably be used as a shield against criticism of one's behaviour or otherwise would grant them preferential treatment, I immediately dismiss them. Turns out most unprovable statements made by people with something to gain are lies. Go figure.

Now I'm not saying they actually are lying as I have no way to know that, I'm not making a positive claim here, I'm just saying that as they present no evidence believing them could only make sense for practical reasons. So, do you have a practical reason to believe them? Is that reason worth it? If so, you can believe them, that's your prerogative. I don't, and will treat him in a manner consistent with his behaviour by itself, which I have not so far objected to. And that's all I have to say on this and all similar matters.

[lio45]

... then maybe, just maybe, when you're interacting with the shop owner and the manager, you could be missing some subtle social cues or some subtle hints that others might read between the lines.

Bartmanhomer could be missing some subtle social cues or some subtle hints that others might read between the lines? While at it, I suppose you'll say Belkar "could" be Evil? :P ;)

[Bartmanhomer]

Bartmanhomer could be missing some subtle social cues or some subtle hints that others might read between the lines? While at it, I suppose you'll say Belkar "could" be Evil? :P ;)

What subtle social cues? I've doing this for so many years and none of the employees and manager didn't have the guts to say anything about it. You know what. I'm not going to listen to take the internet advice anymore. I'm done with it. :furious:

[lio45]

First off, I know what I wrote is long, but if you're going to comment on anything, please at least take the time to read what it is you're commenting on. I never accused you of shoplifting.

Let me repeat that, in case you had trouble parsing it the first time.

I never accused you of shoplifting.

(Thanks, by the way, for demonstrating a spot on straw man argument.)

I specifically raised shoplifting as an example because I wanted to use an analogy that is, and I quote (myself) "something I think even you would agree is both illegal and unethical." And, perhaps something more importantly, something that I think even you would agree that shop owners really don't find acceptable, regardless of whether they're willing to take steps to do anything about it.

You see, the point I was trying to make, which evidently sailed over your head as you were busy being offended by the fact that I you thought I was accusing you of shoplifting (Once more, with feeling: I never accused you of shoplifting.) is that people don't always confront people over things that bother them, for a number of reasons. The fact that they are too timid, too polite, too lazy, or too pragmatic to confront someone over their behavior does not necessarily mean that they condone or accept that behavior.

I'm rather disappointed that you are apparently unwilling to simply ask the shop owner and the manager whether or not they are okay with people doing as you do. If you're as much of a regular as you say you are, and you never buy anything, at the very least you could say hi, maybe make some conversation once in a while.

tl;dr version

I never accused you of shoplifting.

Yeah, I will second your point. I think it's important.

It might sound logical to Bartmanhomer to use the argument "if they don't do much to stop it, then they must be okay with it" but as you demonstrated, it's incorrect.

The shoplifting example is perfect - sometimes the best way to manage a store is to allow for a certain rate of theft, which in the end is cheaper than any of the alternatives and gets baked into the business model...... but it doesn't meant they LIKE it.

I am also afraid of Bartmanhomer's logic being applied to relationships and courtship, because the result of that will be "sure, I raped her, but she wasn't resisting or complaining THAT actively, so she was probably okay with it..."

It's a total fallacy that "no one is explicitly telling you X is wrong" automatically means "X is not wrong".

There's a lesson here to be learned by Bartmanhomer.

[2D8HP]

Restaurants try to seat people by windows because crowds attract crowds, and most Barnes and Noble's are Cafes as well.

Bartmanhomer if your ever coming near Berkeley, California let me know and I'll suggest some bookstores.

[Bartmanhomer]

Restaurants try to seat people by windows because crowds attract crowds, and most Barnes and Noble's are Cafes as well.

Bartmanhomer if your ever coming near Berkeley, California let me know and I'll suggest some bookstores.
Thanks but no thanks. I'm not going to travel New York all the way to California.

[Razade]

What subtle social cues? I've doing this for so many years and none of the employees and manager didn't have the guts to say anything about it. You know what. I'm not going to listen to take the internet advice anymore. I'm done with it. :furious:

I for one hope you take that advice and run with it. I wouldn't make threads asking for advice or telling us about every small blip in my life either, because I'd just get advice and I don't want it.

[eggynack]

You know what. I'm not going to listen to take the internet advice anymore. I'm done with it. :furious:
But you haven't just been presented with advice. You've been presented with pretty straightforward logic in support of that advice. You don't need to rely on the credibility of arbitrary internet folk. You can just assess whether the logic is sound in a straightforward manner. This is the power of a justified argument.

[Bartmanhomer]

I for one hope you take that advice and run with it. I wouldn't make threads asking for advice or telling us about every small blip in my life either, because I'd just get advice and I don't want it.


But you haven't just been presented with advice. You've been presented with pretty straightforward logic in support of that advice. You don't need to rely on the credibility of arbitrary internet folk. You can just assess whether the logic is sound in a straightforward manner. This is the power of a justified argument.
You know right fine I'll take it because everyone in this forum beg me to do it so badly. :mad:

[eggynack]

You know right fine I'll take it because everyone in this forum beg me to do it so badly. :mad:
Look, do or don't do whatever you want. Just know what you're doing or not doing. You can hang out in a bookstore and read their books. But recognize that, unless you have some internal refutation to the claim that it's unethical, it's unethical. At least to you. You're jumping to conclusions. But, like, in a completely different sense than is typical. You're seeing five paragraphs followed by, "And that's why you shouldn't read in the bookstore," and you're skipping right to the conclusion of, "Don't read in the bookstore." Engage with the underlying argument. Understand that you can be wrong, not because someone is saying that you're wrong, but because there're fundamental reasons for that wrongness that make sense to you. Understand also that you can be right, not for some arbitrary reason, but simply because you can construct a logical counterargument, even if only in your head, to what's being said. You should, in a general sense, go along with the crowd if and only if the crowd is right, and you can frequently determine whether the crowd is right through pure force of rationality. And if you think I'm wrong right now, you should have a reason for thinking that too (though at this point it becomes recursive).

[Razade]

You know right fine I'll take it because everyone in this forum beg me to do it so badly. :mad:

No I'm begging you not to. Don't take our advice (other than this advice).

[2D8HP]

You know right fine I'll take it because everyone in this forum beg me to do it so badly. :mad:


Well I didn't, that's why your response of:


Thanks but no thanks. I'm not going to travel New York all the way to California.


puzzles me.

Usually "No thank you", means "That was a kind offer, but I politely decline it", wheras "Thanks but no thanks", usually means "The very suggestion is insulting".



In no particular order here are some things I do for fun.

1) Riding a bicycle in quiet streets.

2) Listening to old songs.

3) Making funny faces at an infant and getting them to laugh.

4) Chocolate.

5) Stew.

6) A pint of Ale while reading an entertaining book (The Invisible Library by Genevieve Cogman was a fun recent read).

7) Sitting under a tree while reading an entertaining book (Prisoner of Zenda by Alexander Hope has been good so far).

8) Watching Rick Steve's Travels in Europe on Television.

9) Watching Rich Trethewey fix a plumbing problem on Ask This Old House (watching someone else do the work is relaxing).

10) Watching cooking shows!

11) Planting Crimson Clover before the rains and watching it grow.

12) This Forum.

13) Getting and reading books.



Once upon a time I was very into table top adventure (role-playing) games, punk rock, and motorcycling, but those days are gone.



Best wishes!

[Eldariel]

All praise.

I read, but I'm really picky. Poetry and ancient literature. Maybe it's narrow minded, but hey. I study languages and linguistics; phonology is my kick right now. I write poetry, but it isn't very good. I love poetic theory though, so I'm a happy versifier. Sometimes I go on campus and play the fool with students. It's a lot of fun. I LOVE to dance, and sing too, but my dancing is much better than my singing. Drinking songs are the best though. I like picnics most of the year. I like to drive long distances. I'm not much a gamer; when I was younger, I played roguelikes, but not much anymore. Nethack gave me enough knowledge to enjoy the comics here, so I read them. I've never met a stranger, so I love talking to people. I run a local book club.

I want to get into conlanging, improve my poetry, and learn to play an instrument. Guitar maybe?

When you die, and they give you the reincarnation option, pick my life. It's a good one!

Huh. That sounds really familiar. Though I'm more into cognitive linguistics nowadays, that pretty much covers all my bigger activities as well. And well, I'm intent on learning the harp. You wouldn't happen to also enjoy the occasional trip to the nature and hiking, and using 19th century clothing in the urban environment? Which dance styles do you do?

[lio45]

What subtle social cues? I've doing this for so many years and none of the employees and manager didn't have the guts to say anything about it. You know what. I'm not going to listen to take the internet advice anymore. I'm done with it. :furious:

Well, y'know, by definition, subtle cues are subtle, which means it's entirely possible to miss them, and the argument "What social cues? I haven't perceived them, therefore they don't exist" is therefore totally flawed.

[Aedilred]

Well, y'know, by definition, subtle cues are subtle, which means it's entirely possible to miss them, and the argument "What social cues? I haven't perceived them, therefore they don't exist" is therefore totally flawed.

From what Bartmanhomer has previously told us about himself, I can entirely believe that any social cues on the part of the shop staff short of their shouting "get the hell out of my store, you freeloader!" woud be missed.

For the reasons discussed above, I suspect that any social cues given would have been significantly more subtle than that, but nevertheless it's worth considering (in general) that not only just because you haven't picked up on these cues doesn't mean they're not there, but, in particular if you know you have trouble picking up on social cues (for instance, due to autism), you're more likely to miss them.

[Avianmosquito]

Welp. This thread has been thoroughly derailed.

[Tiri]

asbergers

I have no desire to get involved in the ongoing discussion, but I'd like to point out that the word is 'Asperger's', with a P, a capitalised first letter, due to the syndrome being named after Hans Asperger and an apostrophe before the S at the end.

Alternatively, you can spell it without the apostrophe, but in that case there is no S at the end and the word 'syndrome' must come after it.

[Murk]

Things I Do For Fun:

- Sitting around. This is arguably my greatest hobby.
- Reading books (and comics). I, too, rarely buy books, but that is just because my father likes books as much (if not more) as I do, and he has collected quite a lot of them over the years.
- Writing books. Or, well, as most hobbyist writers: trying to write books while rarely finishing one.
- Playing games. Both board games and computer games, but since you need other people for board games and I don't have many other people lying around, I more often play computer games. Of all sorts, as long as they're crappy enough for my computer to handle.
- Running. I wouldn't call it a hobby, since I really dislike it, but I still spend quite a lot of my time, voluntarily, doing it, so what else would it be than a hobby?
- Looking at axolotls. They are always silly and can keep me occupied for a looooong time.
- Looking at maps. I love maps.
- Making maps. I currently enjoy making maps for a risk-like online game, though I always have trouble with vector programs.
- Eating. And making food, but mainly eating it. Hence the running.
- Arguing with strangers on the internet. One of my guilty pleasures.
- Watching movies. I might enjoy movies I dislike more than movies I do like. Which leads to another guilty pleasure:
- Complaining. Doesn't matter about what.
- Baking stuff. A tough one, since my baking skills are horrible. Whatever I bake, it fails. I really like doing it, though, so that puts me in a difficult position.
- Drawing. I can draw slightly better than I can bake. Let's just keep it at that.

[lio45]

I have no desire to get involved in the ongoing discussion, but I'd like to point out that the word is 'Asperger's', with a P, a capitalised first letter, due to the syndrome being named after Hans Asperger and an apostrophe before the S at the end.

Alternatively, you can spell it without the apostrophe, but in that case there is no S at the end and the word 'syndrome' must come after it.

On the other hand, it's very possible that Avianmosquito's statement was rigorously exact, i.e. that he did pretend to have asbergers, whatever that is, back in 2002. :p

[Aedilred]

Welp. This thread has been thoroughly derailed.

I think that, like most Bartmanhomer threads, this thread was never really a train heading from A to B (and possibly further destinations along the rails) but more like a car with a drunk driver flailing around aimlessly at top speed and which is also on fire. If anything, it's a surprise if it ever does get anywhere it was trying to go without crashing and/or exploding.

[Tiri]

I think that, like most Bartmanhomer threads, this thread was never really a train heading from A to B (and possibly further destinations along the rails) but more like a car with a drunk driver flailing around aimlessly at top speed and which is also on fire. If anything, it's a surprise if it ever does get anywhere it was trying to go without crashing and/or exploding.

To be fair, this thread actually had a goal in mind when it was started; people listing what they do for fun. If anything, you derailed it by trying to debate the morality of reading in bookshops with Bartmanhomer, and you've been around long enough to know where that'll get you.

[VincentTakeda]

I have very little disposable income, thus my hobbies outside of gaming forums are mostly internet meme scrapbooking. I'm averaging about 100 gigs a year. I go to 'wing night' with my friends once a week.
I used to buy movies and comics until I couldnt afford it anymore. Now I dont even have cable or any other kind of tv service like netflix so I don't even watch tv anymore.
One of the reasons I got into tabletop gaming is that once you buy the gaming books, its an infinite amount of entertainment without a constant investment in cash. Tabletop gaming is some of the best ROI there is.
Unless your playstyle is to own a hundred different gaming systems. Thankfully I'm pretty much satisfied with one.

[2D8HP]

...Tabletop gaming is some of the best ROI there is.
Unless your playstyle is to own a hundred different gaming systems. Thankfully I'm pretty much satisfied with one.


I"'ll biten

I am one of those who owns, well maybe not a hundred games, but something close to it, but really the only game I play anymore is 5e D&D in PbP form, and the most important rules are free online plus the "core" books can be checked out from the library.

What is your one game?

How did you decide on it?

[Aedilred]

Depends what you mean by tabletop gaming. Miniature wargaming, after all, falls into that category, and I can say with assurance that even if you settle on only playing one system, you can never have enough figures.

I have not managed to settle on only one system over the course of my life, although I have narrowed it down to only one or two I'm going to continue to make purchases for unless something new and amazing comes along (which, of course, it probably will).

[Xyril]

11) Planting Crimson Clover before the rains and watching it grow.





I had no idea what crimson clover was or that this was a thing people did for fun, so thanks for bringing it to my attention.

[2D8HP]

I had no idea what crimson clover was or that this was a thing people did for fun, so thanks for bringing it to my attention.


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/32/Trifolium_incarnatum.jpg/220px-Trifolium_incarnatum.jpg

I like flowers and round leaves more than lawn grass.

There's also the song:


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hdhonK8NMm8

[VincentTakeda]

What is your one game?

How did you decide on it?

I get a lot of flack for it, but my system of choice is palladium's sdc system. Heroes/aliens/powers unlimited with ninjas and superspies on the side. Up until I'd found this system I had been mostly a 2e guy. Newer systems with fate points and metacurrencies and dice pools, point builds, players creating their own powers... all that never really did it for me. Of course every system takes a little retooling to make it work, so the good news is I've got a reliable set of houserules to fix the stuff about it I dont like, and unlike the MDC/Rifts version of the system, the SDC system hasnt really been touched in decades, so its not been subject to a lot of the wrecking that's happened to the mdc system over the years. 2e was always my favorite system, but I never felt like it could do anything other than what it did... After getting hooked on supers campaigns, and then trying every super system under the sun, palladiums the one I prefer.

Kevin Siembieda's antics chased a lot of people away from his systems, but this system has basically been untouched by him for decades, so I can compartmentalize my appreciation for the mechanics separate from my personal feelings about Kevin's antics. I almost exclusively gm, so the only challenge is finding willing players, which, I wont lie, can be a bit tricky sometimes. I'd rather that than find a ton of willing groups that are vested in systems I have no interest in though. At worst you find folks who wont touch it due to preferring newer system mechanics or who wont touch it due to Kevin's behavior within the industry on principle. But there are a lot of folks out there who say even though its a gonzo system, those gaming sessions are almost always a whole lotta fun and really memorable... and thats the point at the end of the day.

Not that I dont dabble in other systems from time to time... I've even icorporated some modern gaming rules into my houserules. The advantage to picking a system and sticking with it is that you have all the rules memorized and they never change, so you dont have to waste time during a gaming session to go look something up, and as anyone with experience digging through palladium manuals can attest to, not needing to rifle through those books is a pretty big deal, because the layout of the books has a reputation all its own... But if you know every rule... doesnt matter what a mess the books are.

[FinnLassie]

I have really gotten into crossword puzzles lately. It's soothing but also makes me aware of the complexity ofthe Finnish language as well as keeps me up with dialect terms.

[ArgentumRegio]

For fun I read books, write programs, build stuff for my virtual tabletop aka Neverwinter Nights (http://playnwn.hopto.org). In the right season, I like to garden (veggies and fruits!).

[JobsforFun]

Fridays and Saturdays I play DnD with friends and the rest of the week I am either playing video games online or doing homework, not much to do in the life of an 18 year old high school student...

[DataNinja]

Fridays and Saturdays I play DnD with friends and the rest of the week I am either playing video games online or doing homework, not much to do in the life of an 18 year old high school student...

I was expecting you to say "Jobs". :smalltongue:

[JobsforFun]

I was expecting you to say "Jobs". :smalltongue:

Believe it or not I have only had one job and it was being a bagger at a grocery store called Kroger. I ended up qutting since I kept asking for a schedule change and they never did anything...

[Winter Road]

I like to play some Baldur's Gate, or whatever new Rogue-lite indie games are around~

[Bifko]

I like to read Bartmanhomer threads in my spare time.

[junlogji]

https://s10.postimg.org/do9afcdvd/Screenshot_88.png

[Beaverton]

Let's see for fun, for fun.

My primary hobby is boxing. Love it. I spend 2-3 hours training every night.
BUT
I came to the realization that I needed more hobbies that didn't involve decking schnozes/getting decked in the schnoz.
So recently I've taken up MTG (kinda bad at it, but a buddy is helping me through). I've got a Mardu Vehicle standard deck that is pretty quick.
Aside from that, I just joined a book club, but we're reading this totally lame book. Some biography about Elon Musk. Boooooring (to me anyway). I get that some people find it fascinating, but I couldn't care less. I'm really just in the club to try and round myself out more.

I like to get with my dope friends and do dope things.

Also, I love to cook.

[Scarlet Knight]

Oooo! MTG!

Thanks to my kids, I play when they're home. I just blew the dust off my old decks and got readdicted. Then I spend the night complaining how every power created in the last 10 years (planeswalkers, deathtouch, lifelink, etc) is overpowered. :smallmad:

When I'm alone, I watch baseball or hockey, depending on the season. When my wife is home, we break out the popcorn and blankets and watch mysteries.

[Beaverton]

Oooo! MTG!

Thanks to my kids, I play when they're home. I just blew the dust off my old decks and got readdicted. Then I spend the night complaining how every power created in the last 10 years (planeswalkers, deathtouch, lifelink, etc) is overpowered. :smallmad:


From what I've seen, the game is pretty (very) fast paced. It's a bit hard to get used to, but with some guidance (and a pretty penny) I've sorta gotten into the groove. Since my deck involves a lot of cheap drops and haste, I try to just shoot out the planeswalkers as soon as I possibly can.

And the time spent with your wife sounds very relaxing! I must say, I'm fairly envious of people with that kind of comradery(? Maybe a better word can fit here). Marriage sounds dope.

[Atreyu the Masked LLama]

I love geocaching! There is a whole hidden world of adventure out there. Tiny treasures are hidden throughout the city. Containers are placed in the woods for those with the determination to find them.

[Bohandas]

For fun. I mostly play computer games (mostly citybuilders, turn-based strategy, fps, and singleplayer rpgs), watch tv/dvds/netflix (mostly comedies and mythbusters), and surf the internet (mostly forums like this and webcomics) and sometimes I draw. Or at least those are the things the terms of service allow me to mention.

[Arcane_Snowman]

Firetwirling: I used to do fire breathing as well, but the dangers are a little bit too much for me nowadays. I just find that there's something meditative about spinning poi. I've got a Fire staff also, but have put significantly less time into it.

Krav Maga: I've always been fascinated with martial arts, and now that I'm studying again I've got the energy to do some more involved exercise (manual labor was not conducive to my motivation).

General Nerding: I read manga/visual novels, watch anime, play computer games and play tabletop games.

[aloysius]

Drink choccy milk