This party is crazy

[Grimjudgment]

So, I've been DMing for a group of mostly new players that are my friends, and honestly... Holy damn are they being really difficult to deal with.

It's a 4 player party and they've been stuck in a perpetual state of wanting more from the D&D sessions, but unable to remember even the most basic aspects of their classes. They want to stop getting wrecked by enemies, but still don't brush up on their classes. I even tell them every week "Hey guys, remember to read your PHB and ask me if you need help with anything". Yet, they never do.

They also have a ridiculous tendency to not use any imagination whatsoever or even ask if things could be done. There's only one player in the group that ever asked me about homebrew content, and I literally implemented an entire homebrew race and told everyone that if they ask for something, they'd most likely get it.


Another aspect is that they have no issues wanting to commit evil acts yet can't handle the consequences. I even told them that they'd be playing in a constant, persistent world and their decisions would affect the world at large. So when they went on a quest to absolutely bone the world for the sake of them gaining incredible power, and half the party got upset when I eventually NPC'd their characters as they succeeded in becoming puppets for a greater devil and had to play in a world that went to absolute apocalypse mode, because they literally opened the gates of the nine hells.

Does anyone have any clue at all that I could do to possibly push them in the right way?

I'm considering throwing one of them in the DM seat and see if they'd gain at least a bit of a respect for DMs.

[Honest Tiefling]

You can drag a princess to a dragon, but you can't make it eat. Have you considered that your group wants a hack-n-slash campaign? I get the feeling they do. Set the new stabby fun time campaign in the ruins of the old one, with them having to fight devils to free the world. They don't even need to be good aligned, just a better option then a bunch of devils which isn't THAT hard to do.

As for the combat...Use the kiddy gloves! Have them face lower level challenges utilizing one simple trick each time. Have the enemy demonstrate the tactic and see if they pick it up. Play to their strengths for the fist few combats if needed.

[Grimjudgment]

As for the combat...Use the kiddy gloves! Have them face lower level challenges utilizing one simple trick each time. Have the enemy demonstrate the tactic and see if they pick it up. Play to their strengths for the fist few combats if needed.

I might have to do that, otherwise, I might be absolutely screwed.

[jaappleton]

Alright. I have a suggestion.

Show them how its really done.

Show them an episode of Critical Role. I like the one where they defeat the Briarwoods, it shows a scale of power, imagination, consequence, etc. If that doesn't get their creative and imaginative juices flowing... They're without hope.

If Critical Role isn't your thing, try Acquisitions Incorporated. Viari and his chandeliers is usually enough.

[Grimjudgment]

Alright. I have a suggestion.

Show them how its really done.

Show them an episode of Critical Role. I like the one where they defeat the Briarwoods, it shows a scale of power, imagination, consequence, etc. If that doesn't get their creative and imaginative juices flowing... They're without hope.

If Critical Role isn't your thing, try Acquisitions Incorporated. Viari and his chandeliers is usually enough.

I myself hate watching liveplays, so I tend to watch Nerdarchy, DawnforgedCast, Web DM, Bacon Battalion and T the writer.

Although, I will suggest the liveplays and possibly show them a few videos that I used to start as a player years ago.

[jaappleton]

I myself hate watching liveplays, so I tend to watch Nerdarchy, DawnforgedCast, Web DM, Bacon Battalion and T the writer.

Although, I will suggest the liveplays and possibly show them a few videos that I used to start as a player years ago.

I get not liking Live Plays, but if you want to show them examples in action... I don't think there's any better way.

[Grimjudgment]

I get not liking Live Plays, but if you want to show them examples in action... I don't think there's any better way.

Yeah, I'll deal with it and point them towards the liveplays. I might hate them, but compromises are fine.

[Hrugner]

Use their background as a way to give them info about consequences, "your time spent as an acolyte lets you know that by joining the demon army, you are unlikely to retain free will." or "As a pirate you know this sort of power structure well. You aren't going to be the strongest so you'll likely be dead."

For lack of improvisation, I don't know exactly what you mean. You could prompt them with skill checks, a spot check to notice a better tactical position, useful terrain, or improvised weapons. As for playing their classes, it may be time for them to face mirrors of themselves. Maybe not literally, but have a representative of their class show up in some encounters to show them some other options.

[RSP]

I'd adjust your expectations: a group new to table top RPGs isn't going to work like an experienced one. It's not just a system mastery thing, it's a maturation as a player-thing: new players tend to like combat as it's easier to get your head around, shows cause and effect with actions, gives some cathartic release, etc.

Players that have a little more experience, I find, tend to start wanting a little more in their gaming: developing fun characters, finding cool game options and abilities, which in general leads to more creativity.

[Grimjudgment]

Use their background as a way to give them info about consequences, "your time spent as an acolyte lets you know that by joining the demon army, you are unlikely to retain free will." or "As a pirate you know this sort of power structure well. You aren't going to be the strongest so you'll likely be dead."

For lack of improvisation, I don't know exactly what you mean. You could prompt them with skill checks, a spot check to notice a better tactical position, useful terrain, or improvised weapons. As for playing their classes, it may be time for them to face mirrors of themselves. Maybe not literally, but have a representative of their class show up in some encounters to show them some other options.

I actually do try to give them information on their backgrounds, yet they tend to never use their background for problem solving unless I prompt them to, except for one player.


I'd adjust your expectations: a group new to table top RPGs isn't going to work like an experienced one. It's not just a system mastery thing, it's a maturation as a player-thing: new players tend to like combat as it's easier to get your head around, shows cause and effect with actions, gives some cathartic release, etc.

Players that have a little more experience, I find, tend to start wanting a little more in their gaming: developing fun characters, finding cool game options and abilities, which in general leads to more creativity.


I honestly never had a murderhobo phase, so it's difficult to empathize, but I'm going to try that. One of the players, the same one that uses his background in standard gameplay actually isn't a murderhobo at all, quite the opposite l, actually. They always play the support or ranged DPS. After a bit of talking, it seems the party gets together, but they're so quick to be inflexible sometimes.

The newest campaign is about to start on Sunday and I'm planning on giving them a great session.

I'm planning on them getting attacked by bandits that similarly mirror their characters in class and level now. I'll see how that works.

[TripleD]

If you have time, putting together a one-page "cheat sheet" for each of their classes may help them out. You can cut out 90% of the fluff and all of the stuff they won't be able to do until higher levels, and just focus on what they can do right now.

[Grimjudgment]

If you have time, putting together a one-page "cheat sheet" for each of their classes may help them out. You can cut out 90% of the fluff and all of the stuff they won't be able to do until higher levels, and just focus on what they can do right now.

I tend to do that already. I originally started each of our campaigns at level 1, but I've been slowly bringing it up at a start level of 2, then 3, and so on

Currently, they're about to start at level 6 with classes they're more familiar with.

We currently have a cleric, rogue, fighter and sorcerer. All of them have played the classes before and the cleric memorized most of his class features, so there's definitely some progress. If I designed my campaign just well enough, this might be the proving grounds for them to really wisen up.

Fingers crossed.

[jaappleton]

I'm sure you're already doing this, but craft scenarios for each of them to shine in their role.

Cleric, Rogue, Fighter, Sorc

Your mission? Clear out the Were Rats that're running the sewers by order of the city guard, who have lost enough of their own men trying to do so. But the leader of the Were Rats is the son of the mayor. So he doesn't want you going down there. So how will you get the key to the sealed sewers?

'Sup, Rogue? Sneak in to his office and steal the keys.

Cleric, create a distraction in the town square by preaching the gospel of your deity. Go full televangelist. Get rowdy, use Thaumaturgy to have your voice echo for the masses to hear.

Sorcerer, peruse the magic shop for anything to help against lycanthropes. You're the Arcane Caster, and the face.
See if you can get a good price.

Fighter? Talk to the local blacksmith, and have your blade covered in silver. (Or arrows if you're an archer, you get the idea)

[Grimjudgment]

I'm sure you're already doing this, but craft scenarios for each of them to shine in their role.

Cleric, Rogue, Fighter, Sorc

Your mission? Clear out the Were Rats that're running the sewers by order of the city guard, who have lost enough of their own men trying to do so. But the leader of the Were Rats is the son of the mayor. So he doesn't want you going down there. So how will you get the key to the sealed sewers?

'Sup, Rogue? Sneak in to his office and steal the keys.

Cleric, create a distraction in the town square by preaching the gospel of your deity. Go full televangelist. Get rowdy, use Thaumaturgy to have your voice echo for the masses to hear.

Sorcerer, peruse the magic shop for anything to help against lycanthropes. You're the Arcane Caster, and the face.
See if you can get a good price.

Fighter? Talk to the local blacksmith, and have your blade covered in silver. (Or arrows if you're an archer, you get the idea)

Yeah, this isn't my first gig, so I do that pretty often. Although, sometimes things happen and the players forget what they should be doing, such as the rogue shrugging when he tries to open a door and learns that it's locked.

Or when there's very specifically, an old, work out door that's locked, the fighter and the rogue said "Let's go around"

And I just looked at them and was like "Rogue, remember, you have thieves tools and fighter, it's an old door. You could just smash it the hell down"

They both facepalmed and realized their error, so maaaybe they're learning.