Arcane Spellcasting in Heavy Armor: How do you do it?

[Wartex1]

I'm currently trying to build an NPC for a campaign setting whose defining combat trait is that he is a powerful, offense-oriented arcane spellcaster who always wears heavy armor. I've looked at various ways to remove or diminish the arcane spell failure chance (Magus class feature, Mithral Armor, Arcane Armor Mastery, etc.), but none have seemed particularly satisfying, due to either not fitting the character concept or not being effective enough. I could give the NPC magic armor which has no penalty as part of its enchantment, but that almost seems like a cop-out.

What solutions would you propose?

For an example of the concept in mind, I'm thinking of a Golbez or Darth Vader-type character who mostly forgoes the melee aspect, which is why I'm less keen on making the NPC a Magus or a weird Anti-Paladin archetype.


http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/6/6d/Golbez.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120706153946

[the_archduke]

Arcane Armor Training (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/arcane-armor-training-combat/)

Arcane Armor Mastery (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/arcane-armor-mastery-combat/)


Hell Knight Signifier (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/hellknight-signifer/)

Signifier Armor Training (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/signifer-armor-training/)

If you take all of these, you have 0 ASF by level 8 in Hellknight Plate (which is slightly better than fullplate)

[Wartex1]

Huh, that's really neat and actually very flavorful. It needs a hefty feat requirement depending on your spellcasting class for the armor proficiencies, but it works surprisingly well. It still eats a swift/immediate action though, but I may not need to go to my last resort, which was making a new Hybrid class entirely that focuses on armored spellcasting rather than gishing.

[khadgar567]

Experimental but spheres of might pulls the same combo in 4 levels via arcane armor talent

[Raxxius]

Can't you just use Twilight mithral plate (15% ASF) + Arcane armour mastery -20%

Or celestial plate (20% ASF) + Arcane armour mastery (-20%)?

Probably want a dip class in fighter to get the armour feats, but then you could go full caster after that.


Or spellsword for 3 levels for 15% ignore arcane spell failure, -1 caster level though, which would be -2 as you'd need a fighter level.

[Tuvarkz]

The Hellknight Obedience feat. The second boon for the Order of the Gate removes all arcane spell failure from wearing hellknight armor. Mithral+Comfort+a Steelbone Frame should remove all the armor check penalty so you don't have to worry about proficiency.

[Jasqua]

A level in Oracle with the Deaf curse would do it.
EDIT: Wait no, that's for talking of course. Nevermind.

There's also the psychic bloodline for sorcerers, but then they're technically not arcane casters anymore

[AnonMD]

Make the NPC an awakened fullplate construct that takes control of people. You don't get ASF from your armor if you are the armor.

[Piranha424]

Make the NPC an awakened fullplate construct that takes control of people. You don't get ASF from your armor if you are the armor.

This is a fantastic idea I will find a way to use in a campaign as soon as possible

[Dagroth]

Arcane Armor Training (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/arcane-armor-training-combat/)

Arcane Armor Mastery (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/arcane-armor-mastery-combat/)


Hell Knight Signifier (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/hellknight-signifer/)

Signifier Armor Training (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/signifer-armor-training/)

If you take all of these, you have 0 ASF by level 8 in Hellknight Plate (which is slightly better than fullplate)

If you start with Arcane Armor Training before you go to Hell Knight Enforcer, the class gives you Arcane Armor Mastery. Plus, it changes the Feat to an Immediate Action... which is... useless. At least if it were a Free Action, you could use the feat with Swift or Immediate Action spells.

[Wartex1]

Okay, I really like that construct idea.

But with this still bopping around my head, I had an idea about making a 6th-level caster class centered around the idea. Probably a Witch/Fighter hybrid which takes Witch Hexes and the Familiar along with the Fighter Armor Training (with features to remove Spell Failure chance at a faster rate than the Magus) plus some extra features to help boost tanking potential (cast touch spell in place of an AoO, doesn't work with Combat Reflexes, maybe later upgrade it to single-target ranged touch attacks and eventually single-target save spells or even hexes), or maybe even a control ability (passive difficult terrain within certain radius?). Maybe it could also get Merciful Metamagic for free (what kind of evil armored Overlord doesn't neglect to kill the protagonist the first time around :smalltongue:), which it could use spontaneously with a slight damage bonus for encouragement (possibly +INT modifier to damage, later levels multiplying the bonus?).

Archetypes could be a Wizard-esque one which trades some Hexes for bonus metamagic feats or arcane discoveries, a Sorc-esque one which trades some hexes and the familiar for bloodline powers and the bloodline spells as spontaneous options ala Cleric Cure/Inflict spontaneity, a less control-oriented archetype which trades the passive control ability for something like a Paladin auras, a Crafting-focused variant which gets free crafting feats as well as bonuses (maybe reduced crafting times) in exchange for some of the armor training stuff, and a Psychic archetype because why not.

Do you think something like that would work?

[Kurald Galain]

Mindblade Magus is a psychic caster so can wear armor without penalty.
Deep Marshal Magus gets heavy armor at a much earlier level.
Numerous Magus spells have no somatic components, meaning you can cast them in armor (e.g. True Strike, Bladed Dash, Displacement, Storm Step). Then use Still Spell + Wayang Spellhunter on your favorite offensive spell.
Or you could have him wear Glamered armor that actually isn't heavy, but looks like heavy.

Bear in mind that the Magus probably wants to use his swift actions on something else than reducing spell failure chance.

[dude123nice]

Still Spell?

[Roninn]

I have a +2 mithral, twilight casters segmented breastplate of nimbleness. I'm almost a flat sorcerer.

Caster and Segmented lower the ASF by 5% and increase max dex by 1 respectively. these are found in Dragon Mag #358

Twilight enchant drops ASF by 10%

Nimble enchant drops ACP by 2 and raises max dex by 1

mithral -> -10% ASF, +3 ACP, Max dex +2.

All said and done, a breastplate with a AC of 7, 0% ASF, 0 ACP, and a +7 Max Dex. All for 21,200

I also have thought about a mithral tessellated armor from the old Arms and Equipment guide.

[theasl]

Just in case you weren't aware, spells without somatic components (a non-exhaustive list of them here (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pdd3?NonSomatic-WizardSorcerer-Spell-List)) can be cast in any armor with no spell failure penalty. That said, the list is quite limited.

The Still Spell metamagic feat as mentioned above is another very cheap option, with only one spell level increase.

As far as items, scrolls (and other spell completion items) unfortunately are still subject to the penalty, but wands (and other spell trigger items - so potions, rings, staves, etc.) are not, so if you wanted him to use a weapon with a wand chamber or staff to cast, that could be an option (he could be the one making the wands/staves, so that he's still a caster). You could also have him carry a bunch of Rods of Still Spell to use with his regular spells, though that would be pretty costly and probably not worthwhile for an NPC.

[Gusmo]

Does Pathfinder have a good way to keep arcane concordance (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/arcane-concordance/) running on a regular basis? That would let you apply still spell as needed for free, plus other benefits.

[theasl]

Does Pathfinder have a good way to keep arcane concordance (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/arcane-concordance/) running on a regular basis? That would let you apply still spell as needed for free, plus other benefits.

Could be permanencied, I guess. Not too clear on how that works, but it is an option.

[Psyren]

Mindblade Magus is a psychic caster so can wear armor without penalty.
Deep Marshal Magus gets heavy armor at a much earlier level.
Numerous Magus spells have no somatic components, meaning you can cast them in armor (e.g. True Strike, Bladed Dash, Displacement, Storm Step). Then use Still Spell + Wayang Spellhunter on your favorite offensive spell.
Or you could have him wear Glamered armor that actually isn't heavy, but looks like heavy.

Bear in mind that the Magus probably wants to use his swift actions on something else than reducing spell failure chance.

I think he said he doesn't want Magus though.

@OP: I would personally recommend the Hellknight route, combined with Still Spell (rods) for the times when you need both a spell and an open swift action between swings.

[icefractal]

This way could be seen as somewhat cheesy, but ...

The feat Sacred Geometry lets you apply metamagic without using higher-level slots, assuming you can do some dice math. At low levels, it's unreliable, but once you get 11-12 dice or so, it becomes impossible to fail (someone mathematically proved this, I believe). So with that alone, you could apply Silent Spell to everything except your highest level slots.

But wait, there's more! If you also take the Heighten Spell (separately, not as one of the Sacred Geometry feats) and the Wayang Spellhunter (aka Metamagic Master) or Magical Lineage trait, then "the maximum level spell you can cast" is one level higher. Which means you can apply Silent to all your spells (except the 9th level ones, when you get that high; buy a rod for those I guess).

If you really want to be cheesy, take both of those traits, and be able to apply two levels of free metamagic on all your spells, or four levels on the spell that you picked for them. As an added benefit, you can potentially qualify for "must be able to cast Xth level spells" things eight levels early. :smallamused:

Re: Arcane Concordance - The Ring of Continuation was never technically errata'd (to add the 10 minutes/level restriction), a dev just said they were going to errata it and then never did. However, since the d20pfsrd has already included the pseudo-errata, and doing so is clearly the dev's intention, that's not something that I'd expect to be usable in anything but the most strictly-RAW campaign.

[Gusmo]

I thought the ring of continuation nerf was the result of a FAQ ruling, which is basically the same as errata? Either way, agreed that it's not a great item now, especially for the price.

[Mordaedil]

Still Spell?

Simplest is the best, I find.

You'll be a spell level behind, but eh, you are trying to cast while wearing a full plate.

[weckar]

There's always the Runesmith. It's kind of what they do.

[Psyren]

Re: Arcane Concordance - The Ring of Continuation was never technically errata'd (to add the 10 minutes/level restriction), a dev just said they were going to errata it and then never did. However, since the d20pfsrd has already included the pseudo-errata, and doing so is clearly the dev's intention, that's not something that I'd expect to be usable in anything but the most strictly-RAW campaign.

FAQ is RAW in PF (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1gg#v5748eaic9qf8) - errata is only issued for full reprints, and the FAQ rulings are official until that happens.

[grarrrg]

The feat Sacred Geometry lets you apply metamagic without using higher-level slots, assuming you can do some dice math. At low levels, it's unreliable, but once you get 11-12 dice or so, it becomes impossible to fail (someone mathematically proved this, I believe).
It's worse than that actually (or better depending on how you feel about the feat to begin with).
As low as level _4_ it's already ridiculously reliable.
4 Ranks> 2nd level spells is ~95%
5 Ranks> 3rd level spells is ~98.5%
With it only getting better from there, once you hit 13 ranks you cannot fail (although failure is a mathematical improbability LONG before 13).


So with that alone, you could apply Silent Spell to everything except your highest level slots.

The main issue with what you propose is the 'casting speed' clause of Sacred Geometry.
"Using a feat in this way increases the spell’s casting time to the casting time it would take if the character were a sorcerer or bard (sorcerers and bards using this ability increase the spell’s casting time by two categories); applying the Quicken Spell metamagic effect negates the increased casting time but still contributes to the modified spell’s effective spell level."

Meaning, if you Geometry a Standard Action spell, it becomes a Full Round action to cast. In order to get around this, you'd need to also apply Quicken, which also increases your 'Geometry spell level buffer' to +5 instead of just +1, which GREATLY limits what spells you can apply it to.

Granted, giving up your Move Action instead of your Swift Action can be worth it some rounds, but it's not the be-all end-all solution.