Asking for helpful suggestions for lvl4 Monk strats...

[Aell]

Hi, I've played for about a year with my wood-elf monk (yes, I wanted to minmax him, so there) in a very friendly group with a fair DM and amicable partymembers.
People have said that the DnD5e monk is great if used to "zip in and out of combat" to avoid reprisals. I would love if someone could give me some examples, I describe my usual strat below.

Char: I am level 4, I need about 1600 more xp for lvl5, when I can finally get the coveted second main attack and Stunning Strike. But at the moment I have 45ft speed, my stats are 14Str 18Dex 16Con 13Int 18Wis 9Cha.

Weapons: My main weapon is a silvered spear and ranged weapon is a longbow (I chose the sharpshooter feat). I literally wear a steel ball necklace, which I haven't used for fighting yet, and I don't know which weapon analogue it would count as if I did use it. Anyone know?

Party: My party is a lvl4 human fighter (sword/shield), a lvl4 human rogue (daggers), and a lvl3 gnome druid.

My usual (very unsophisticated strategy) is to fire arrows at an enemy until they close, then use spear for main and fists for 2 bonus attacks.
What I have heard people repeat often when it comes to monks nowadays is that they should not be front line fighters but should rush in, blast-attack, then move back out of range.

My main question: I have only 4 ki-points at the moment. I didn't know how useful "Mobility" would have been for disengaging at will, so I didn't get it at lvl4 and will have to wait until lvl8 now. What would be the best attack strat without "Mobility"? I reach lvl5 soon, so can I stun an enemy with Stunning Strike and then move away from him to attack a weaker foe, without the Stunned enemy doing an Attack of Opportunity? This would be considered a "Mobile" light, sort of?



What kind of weapon does a steel-ball necklace count as?

[solidork]

You're a melee character so you are going to be in melee most of the time. Your mobility means that (compared to other classes) it makes it easier for you to retreat if you get into trouble instead of just taking the punishment, though bonus action dodge means you actually not that bad off even if you do stick to your guns and have the ki to spend. Alternatively, you can use your mobility is to slip past the front line and attack vulnerable enemies like spellcasters.

What monastic tradition did you pick? If you are open hand, then using your ki to knock down enemies could be very strong since you have two other melee characters.

[Aell]

I am Open Hand, yes! I often forget the value of knocking enemies prone, I have tried it about 4 times and the enemies have always Con-saved. I will try it more now that I know how good it could be for the party.

[solidork]

I actually just commented on your post on Reddit :D. But yeah, they can't attack you. You also get advantage if you continue to attack them and they will automatically fail if you try to knock them down or push them back. The rules for all the various conditions (stunned, prone, poisoned, etc) are in the PHB page 290.

[Specter]

How monks can dash in and out of combat? Ok, some examples:

- Your main enemy (probably a caster) is behind his load of minions. You use Step of the Wind to disengage (or Patient Defense) and run through the enemy lines to reach him.

- You're fighting some heavily armored badass on your own. You start, 30 feet away from him. On your first turn, you walk up to him and attack as normal. On your second turn, you disengage and go back more than his speed, so he wastes his turn dashing after you. If he doesn't close in on you, attack him at range. If you're fighting him with friends, he can't even close in on you without an opportunity attack.

- You see a friend of yours nearly dying, surrounded by two bad guys. You walk up to them and attack three times, using the last two to remove their reactions so he can escape.

And so on. I don't know why anyone would take Sharpshooter on a Monk, but to each his own.

[Deleted]

Damn, I was hoping you was a small race... Those ghoul/ghost whatever halflings make for a fun monk race.

You are a flanker. You are fast enough to get to an enemy's flank and cut off retreat or movement. Your priorities are...

1: Casters
2: Mooks
3: Creature an ally is attacking
4: Other

Ask the DM if you can use the "cleaving through creatures" rules in the DMG. This helps the monk spread out the damage a bit more and can lead to more mook deaths.

[Fishyninja]

How monks can dash in and out of combat? Ok, some examples:

- Your main enemy (probably a caster) is behind his load of minions. You use Step of the Wind to disengage (or Patient Defense) and run through the enemy lines to reach him.

- You're fighting some heavily armored badass on your own. You start, 30 feet away from him. On your first turn, you walk up to him and attack as normal. On your second turn, you disengage and go back more than his speed, so he wastes his turn dashing after you. If he doesn't close in on you, attack him at range. If you're fighting him with friends, he can't even close in on you without an opportunity attack.

- You see a friend of yours nearly dying, surrounded by two bad guys. You walk up to them and attack three times, using the last two to remove their reactions so he can escape.

And so on. I don't know why anyone would take Sharpshooter on a Monk, but to each his own.

You need to be hugely aware of your surrounding, and use them to your advantage.
- Climb high and jump on people
- Dart from cover to cover to annoy the ranged people

- Also deflect/catch their missles and use them on them
- disengage, move through enemy lines and put the hurt on the casters, ranged, or mooks.
- If you know your Rogue's turn is after you, Move next to them so they get Sneak Attack.

The Monk is primarily a controller. You will never hit as hard as a paladin (until really higher levels) but ideally think of yourself as a sniper in modern warfare. You are there to distabilise an attacking party by taking out/incapacitating the leaders/creatures causing the most harrassment.

[retaliation08]

With the Mobile feat you basically have Spring attack from 3.5. At level 5 you will be getting 4 strikes per round (2 from action, 2 from bonus if FoB). This means that theoretically you could hit 4 different targets on your turn without taking an OA.

You do this by splitting up your attacks. Now, I don't think you can mix your FoB attacks in with your regular attacks as they use a separate action. I think you would have to do either your regular attacks first, or your FoB first.

Anyway if you did FoB first, you could run up to the first enemy, do one FoB attack and make it prone. Continue on to the next enemy, finish your FoB to make that one prone too.

Then you can use your attack action to lay more damage on the prone enemies, or to try to avoid OA as you move to a different location on the battlemap by whacking them before leaving reach.

There are really sooooo many ways to use Mobile with an OH monk and it all depends on the battlemap and using proper tactics mixed with creativity and teamwork.

[Deleted]

With the Mobile feat you basically have Spring attack from 3.5. At level 5 you will be getting 4 strikes per round (2 from action, 2 from bonus if FoB). This means that theoretically you could hit 4 different targets on your turn without taking an OA.

You do this by splitting up your attacks. Now, I don't think you can mix your FoB attacks in with your regular attacks as they use a separate action. I think you would have to do either your regular attacks first, or your FoB first.

Anyway if you did FoB first, you could run up to the first enemy, do one FoB attack and make it prone. Continue on to the next enemy, finish your FoB to make that one prone too.

Then you can use your attack action to lay more damage on the prone enemies, or to try to avoid OA as you move to a different location on the battlemap by whacking them before leaving reach.

There are really sooooo many ways to use Mobile with an OH monk and it all depends on the battlemap and using proper tactics mixed with creativity and teamwork.

I always want to put Mobile on a monk but I never can justify it as Step of the Wind exists. Yes, SotW takes ki, but if I ever really need it then it will be worth it.

I love the mobile feat, don't get me wrong I put it on almost anything, but I always feel like another feat or ability boost is more worth it.

[Fishyninja]

I love the mobile feat, don't get me wrong I put it on almost anything, but I always feel like another feat or ability boost is more worth it.
Indeed. However I can;t really think of any feats that make a monk more monk-ey maybe apart from Lucky.

[ad_hoc]

Mobile will do very little for you, especially as an Open Hand Monk.

The best thing to do is boost your Dex and Wis.

Sharpshooter was a terrible choice.

[Deleted]

Indeed. However I can;t really think of any feats that make a monk more monk-ey maybe apart from Lucky.

Well, I don't think a feat needs to make you more of a Monk. You are already all the monk you can ever be.

Some good feat options for a Monk (who has good stats already)

Healer: Monks are seen as healers, this is a good way to spread some love.

Mage Slayer: Ok, so this feat doesn't win versus shocking grasp and some other spells and it doesn't really make you a good mage slayer BUT the monk has attacks that stun which work off a hit and not the attack action...

Magic Initiate: Magic Monk

Ritual Caster: Magic Monk with a pet (find familiar)

Sentinel: Your single attacks don't do a lot of damage, but stunning a creature is downright nasty.

Skulker: Sneaky monk. Also, if you have darkvision, you no longer have disadvantage while using said darkvision.

Spell Sniper: Magic Monk, gives a good ranged option for when you can't throw your fists far enough. Refluff this as a wave fist attack.

[Fishyninja]

Magic Initiate: Magic Monk
I forgot about that one!.

I get what you mean, Monk's are pretty good anyway!.

One other one could be Spear Mastery from UA. However I feel it only has limited uses.

[Desamir]

I personally think Mobile is a must-have for Monks. Yes, you can get away by spending ki points and bonus actions, but darting in and out of combat is something you want to be doing every turn. Especially at early levels, when your ki pool is small enough that you want to be saving it almost exclusively for stuns.

[Fishyninja]

I personally think Mobile is a must-have for Monks. Yes, you can get away by spending ki points and bonus actions, but darting in and out of combat is something you want to be doing every turn. Especially at early levels, when your ki pool is small enough that you want to be saving it almost exclusively for stuns.
I see the huge advantages of this but I always think on whether it is worth saving the odd ki point for, however as the distance between levels does increase quite a lot, it seems like a good choice.

[Deleted]

I personally think Mobile is a must-have for Monks. Yes, you can get away by spending ki points and bonus actions, but darting in and out of combat is something you want to be doing every turn. Especially at early levels, when your ki pool is small enough that you want to be saving it almost exclusively for stuns.

Monks can use it, sure, but it isn't something that is needed. When it is really needed you have access to it.

I love the mobile feat, I'm not saying it is a horrible choice, but there are better choices for the monk because you already cover that when you really need to.

Between Patient Defense, Step of the Wind, and Stunning Strike... You shouldn't be having too many issues.

[ad_hoc]

I personally think Mobile is a must-have for Monks. Yes, you can get away by spending ki points and bonus actions, but darting in and out of combat is something you want to be doing every turn. Especially at early levels, when your ki pool is small enough that you want to be saving it almost exclusively for stuns.

You really don't need to and it will often have little to no effect. Most enemies do have a movement speed. You feel like you are doing all sorts of fancy stuff but you're really not.

With Mobile you are often wasting attacks on creatures that other characters will be better suited to take out. You want to get in and stun the powerful threats.

You are much better off taking +2 Dex to increase your ability to hit, AC, damage, skills, etc. After Dex, +2 Wis is better.

I would even rather take Resilient than Mobile if I had to take a feat.

Mobile is just overkill. You already have a ton of abilities that cover what Mobile does. It's not only not a 'must have' it's actually a bad choice.

[Desamir]

You really don't need to and it will often have little to no effect. Most enemies do have a movement speed. You feel like you are doing all sorts of fancy stuff but you're really not.

With Mobile you are often wasting attacks on creatures that other characters will be better suited to take out. You want to get in and stun the powerful threats.

You are much better off taking +2 Dex to increase your ability to hit, AC, damage, skills, etc. After Dex, +2 Wis is better.

I would even rather take Resilient than Mobile if I had to take a feat.

Mobile is just overkill. You already have a ton of abilities that cover what Mobile does. It's not only not a 'must have' it's actually a bad choice.

All of the abilities you have that let you disengage safely cost ki points, which are in short supply early on. Each ki point you spend on staying alive is one less stun.

Enemies can't easily chase you without risking opportunity attacks from your allies. It's the same reason cunning action is effective, except your base movement speed is much higher, so later on you're capable of moving entirely out of range.

[ad_hoc]

All of the abilities you have that let you disengage safely cost ki points, which are in short supply early on. Each ki point you spend on staying alive is one less stun.

That isn't true.




Enemies can't easily chase you without risking opportunity attacks from your allies. It's the same reason cunning action is effective, except your base movement speed is much higher, so later on you're capable of moving entirely out of range.

What allies are those? Who is taking all of these hits? Why are the monsters okay with this?

If you are able to move entirely out of range why are you fighting these monsters in the first place? How are they a threat?

I am not sure what game you are describing but it is not what I have experienced in 5e.

[Desamir]

That isn't true.

Can you elaborate?


What allies are those? Who is taking all of these hits? Why are the monsters okay with this?

The fighter, paladin, barbarian, and/or ranger in the frontline.


If you are able to move entirely out of range why are you fighting these monsters in the first place? How are they a threat?

I'm not really sure what you're asking here.


I am not sure what game you are describing but it is not what I have experienced in 5e.

Likewise.

[Deleted]

All of the abilities you have that let you disengage safely cost ki points, which are in short supply early on. Each ki point you spend on staying alive is one less stun.

Enemies can't easily chase you without risking opportunity attacks from your allies. It's the same reason cunning action is effective, except your base movement speed is much higher, so later on you're capable of moving entirely out of range.

Stun is nice, but its a Con save. Creatures with a big con save should only be targeted as a last resort. Your Wis will usually be a secondary stat...

If you are fighting mooks or a non-boss you won't want to stun anyways as you could just kill things.

When your goal isn't specifically to kill stuff, fighting just slows down your progress.

[ad_hoc]

Can you elaborate?

There are many. I will give you a hint, it is in your own original quote.



The fighter, paladin, barbarian, and/or ranger in the frontline.

Looks like the solution to all problems. Just have a party of 4 Fighters. You will be invincible.

[Desamir]

There are many. I will give you a hint, it is in your own original quote.

Disengage wastes your action, which means you'll likely be spending a full round in melee range before you can use it. How is that a good solution, exactly?


Looks like the solution to all problems. Just have a party of 4 Fighters. You will be invincible.

Obviously if you're the only melee in the party, Mobile is a bad feat (and Monk is probably the wrong class to play). If your 5e experience involves solely zero-frontline parties, I can see the disconnect.

[ad_hoc]

Disengage wastes your action, which means you'll likely be spending a full round in melee range before you can use it. How is that a good solution, exactly?

I never said disengage. Really, if you are going to say something is a must have option for a class, you should know the class well enough to know what they can do.

I will give you another hint: There are conditions which prevent you from taking reactions.




Obviously if you're the only melee in the party, Mobile is a bad feat (and Monk is probably the wrong class to play). If your 5e experience involves solely zero-frontline parties, I can see the disconnect.

So what you're saying is all you need for an invincible party is 1 Fighter and 3 ranged classes?

Thanks for solving 5e. You should start a thread.

[Desamir]

Stun is nice, but its a Con save. Creatures with a big con save should only be targeted as a last resort. Your Wis will usually be a secondary stat...

If you are fighting mooks or a non-boss you won't want to stun anyways as you could just kill things.

When your goal isn't specifically to kill stuff, fighting just slows down your progress.

Agreed, but most of the non-Mobile options for disengaging also cost you damage by eating your bonus action (with the exception of Open Hand Technique, which has its own caveats).

[Desamir]

I never said disengage. Really, if you are going to say something is a must have option for a class, you should know the class well enough to know what they can do.

I will give you another hint: There are conditions which prevent you from taking reactions.

You didn't say anything, actually. You still haven't really made an argument. I'll respond to it when you do.


So what you're saying is all you need for an invincible party is 1 Fighter and 3 ranged classes?

Is that what I said?

[Deleted]

Agreed, but most of the non-Mobile options for disengaging also cost you damage by eating your bonus action (with the exception of Open Hand Technique, which has its own caveats).

And?

There are still better feat choices for the Monk than Mobile.

[ad_hoc]

Agreed, but most of the non-Mobile options for disengaging also cost you damage by eating your bonus action (with the exception of Open Hand Technique, which has its own caveats).

It sounds like your optimal way to play a Monk is to run around hitting each mook once.

It's really not their thing. They are great at getting through defenses to take out powerful but squishy creatures.

If mooks are all there are, then they are better off concentrating on one at a time. If you take a creature down to 0 HP there is no need to run away from it.

I'm not saying that Mobile is never useful to a Monk. It just happens so rarely, and the benefit when it does is so minor that it really isn't worth it.

I would take +1 Dex over Mobile. It's mind boggingly to me that you would take Mobile over +2 Dex. You are losing out on so much effectiveness.

Please describe an actual common in game scenario with a standard party where this makes sense. I'm even playing a Monk right now in a published adventure so these sorts of things are fresh in mind.


You didn't say anything, actually. You still haven't really made an argument. I'll respond to it when you do.

You made an argument with no evidence. You essentially said that the only way a Monk can avoid OA is to spend KI on just that purpose. You also made the implied argument that avoiding OA with Mobile doesn't have an inherent cost.

I called that into question because it is rubbish.



Is that what I said?

Yes. Not in those exact words but this is the result of your argument. You said a Monk needs to run away to be safe. So I said, how does that make them safe? And then you said a Fighter will protect them. If that is the solution to the game then 1 Fighter is all you need.

Of course that's ridiculous but that is what you are saying.

[Deleted]

It sounds like your optimal way to play a Monk is to run around hitting each mook once.

It's really not their thing. They are great at getting through defenses to take out powerful but squishy creatures.

If mooks are all there are, then they are better off concentrating on one at a time. If you take a creature down to 0 HP there is no need to run away from it.

I'm not saying that Mobile is never useful to a Monk. It just happens so rarely, and the benefit when it does is so minor that it really isn't worth it.

I would take +1 Dex over Mobile. It's mind boggingly to me that you would take Mobile over +2 Dex. You are losing out on so much effectiveness.

Please describe an actual common in game scenario with a standard party where this makes sense. I'm even playing a Monk right now in a published adventure so these sorts of things are fresh in mind.

Oh yeah, +2 Dex will generally be worth so much more to a Monk because the Monk takes the "god stat" and sends it into overdrive.

[ad_hoc]

Oh yeah, +2 Dex will generally be worth so much more to a Monk because the Monk takes the "god stat" and sends it into overdrive.

+2 Wis is also much better than Mobile.

I would take Resilient (Wis) far sooner than Mobile.

(Now if you want to take Mobile for flavour reasons knock yourself out. Personally, I like Mage Slayer. I realize it's something Monks are already good at, but so is Mobile. It can be fun. This is a far cry from saying it is required to play the class.)

[Deleted]

+2 Wis is also much better than Mobile.

I would take Resilient (Wis) far sooner than Mobile.

(Now if you want to take Mobile for flavour reasons knock yourself out. Personally, I like Mage Slayer. I realize it's something Monks are already good at, but so is Mobile. It can be fun. This is a far cry from saying it is required to play the class.)

My issue with Mage Slayer, which is an ok feat, is that it doesn't actually make you better at slaying mages (the reaction happens after the spells as confirmed by JC). However, a lot of the time the monk can stun or catch up to a caster running away so it becomes a better option than on other classes.

If I'm going for boosting wis, I would hit up +2 Wisdom or Observant. Resilient Wis only depends on what level I may get to. Monks eventually get more saving throw proficiencies after all :P

Sentinel is a fun feat for a monk, mainly due to that Stunning Strike feature.

There are so many ways to go, I just feel like if you are picking up a feat, don't pick one you can already cover.

[Desamir]

It sounds like your optimal way to play a Monk is to run around hitting each mook once.

My optimal way to play a Monk is to not get stuck in the frontline. That is easy to do while you have ki points, and difficult to do when you run out, which happens extremely quickly at low levels.


It's really not their thing. They are great at getting through defenses to take out powerful but squishy creatures.

If mooks are all there are, then they are better off concentrating on one at a time. If you take a creature down to 0 HP there is no need to run away from it.

I'm not saying that Mobile is never useful to a Monk. It just happens so rarely, and the benefit when it does is so minor that it really isn't worth it.

I would take +1 Dex over Mobile. It's mind boggingly to me that you would take Mobile over +2 Dex. You are losing out on so much effectiveness.

Please describe an actual common in game scenario with a standard party where this makes sense. I'm even playing a Monk right now in a published adventure so these sorts of things are fresh in mind.


You made an argument with no evidence. You essentially said that the only way a Monk can avoid OA is to spend KI on just that purpose.

Did I say that? You might want to reread the wording of my post.


You also made the implied argument that avoiding OA with Mobile doesn't have an inherent cost.

It seems like you're making a lot of arguments on my behalf that I never made.


Yes. Not in those exact words but this is the result of your argument. You said a Monk needs to run away to be safe. So I said, how does that make them safe? And then you said a Fighter will protect them. If that is the solution to the game then 1 Fighter is all you need.

Of course that's ridiculous but that is what you are saying.

Some classes are better at surviving in the front line than others. Fighters, Barbarians, and Paladins are generally pretty good at it. Monks and Rogues are generally not. Coincidentally, the former are not particularly mobile and the latter are extremely mobile.

Put simply--what do you do when you're out of ki points? Do you stand next to the Barbarian and slug it out against melee creatures?

[ad_hoc]

My optimal way to play a Monk is to not get stuck in the frontline. That is easy to do while you have ki points, and difficult to do when you run out, which happens extremely quickly at low levels.

And you're not really helping out your party much in the process. That's the problem. Yes, your character may survive longer but that isn't very helpful when there is a TPK.





Some classes are better at surviving in the front line than others. Fighters, Barbarians, and Paladins are generally pretty good at it. Monks and Rogues are generally not. Coincidentally, the former are not particularly mobile and the latter are extremely mobile.


Great, thanks for my making argument for me.

This sounds a lot like the Warlock argument over Hex. Some think Hex is the best thing ever because it lasts 8-24 hours. When it is pointed out to them that it only lasts until your concentration fails simply point out the solution is to just not get hit.

This is what is happening here. If you have the opportunity to just not get hit, then the fights you are engaging in are trivial so it doesn't really matter what choices you make. In this case it's not really hurting you to take Mobile, but then you could take Athletic for that matter too.

The Barbarian is also the only one who is much better at taking hits. Fighters and Paladins might be, but generally are only 1 or 2 AC higher than a Monk, if that.

Of course, if you waste your ASIs on mostly useless feats then you aren't going to have much in the way of AC.

What I'm trying to get at is that your conception of Monk is all turned around. You have zeroed in on one type of strategy which only works because the fights you are having are easy anyway.

Monks are very flexible. They can shift tactics to match a number of scenarios. Mobile only slightly improves their ability to do that. What they need is raw power which is what stats are for.

[Scarytincan]

I noticed you put that the enemies made con saves when you tried to knock prone, kinda skimmed the rest of the thread so dunno if someone addressed, but unless I'm mistaken that should be a dex save, and str save if you use it as a knock back

[retaliation08]

I think he was referring to stunning fist when he mentioned the con save.

[djreynolds]

Well you took sharpshooter. I actually like my monks to have viable ranged attack. As a skirmisher IMO it really opens it up for battle.

Mage slayer has one perk players often forget, anyone you hit regardless of distance has disadvantage on concentration checks.. this has no 5 foot requirement, so like crosswbow expert allowing all ranged attacks to work in melee including spells... the second perk of mage slayer coupled with sharpshooter can work out to 600feet. Not bad

Ranger becomes an attractive dip for 3 levels, archery style is +2 for sharpshooter, goodberries is nice, pass without a trace is nice, horde breaker is very nice... so is hunter's mark

You can still become 17 open-hand/ 3 hunter. The likelihood of a campaign going to 20th level is far off anyhow, let alone 17th for quivering palm. So any multiclassing will prolong getting the big prize.

Mobile saves on KI points, and your bonus action. If you strike twice in melee you are offered a BA which you can hit again, or spend a KI point to attack twice. But since you have used that KI point/BA... you are stuck in melee.

You could have saved the BA and used patient defense and dodge for 1 KI and BA, but lost that 3rd attack or use step of the wind, because you spent that BA

Mobile saves not only KI... but the BA associated with it. Now you attack 3 times and walk away.

Does it work with a gang of mooks? No.

But you are a skirmisher, leave the gangs to the fighter, and take care of all the stragglers, kill that wizard waving his fingers, kill the orc running away to get reinforcements. And with sharpshooter you can shoot one orc and the run off to kill his buddy taking cover.

[Citan]

Hi, I've played for about a year with my wood-elf monk (yes, I wanted to minmax him, so there) in a very friendly group with a fair DM and amicable partymembers.
People have said that the DnD5e monk is great if used to "zip in and out of combat" to avoid reprisals. I would love if someone could give me some examples, I describe my usual strat below.

Char: I am level 4, I need about 1600 more xp for lvl5, when I can finally get the coveted second main attack and Stunning Strike. But at the moment I have 45ft speed, my stats are 14Str 18Dex 16Con 13Int 18Wis 9Cha.

Weapons: My main weapon is a silvered spear and ranged weapon is a longbow (I chose the sharpshooter feat). I literally wear a steel ball necklace, which I haven't used for fighting yet, and I don't know which weapon analogue it would count as if I did use it. Anyone know?

Party: My party is a lvl4 human fighter (sword/shield), a lvl4 human rogue (daggers), and a lvl3 gnome druid.

My usual (very unsophisticated strategy) is to fire arrows at an enemy until they close, then use spear for main and fists for 2 bonus attacks.
What I have heard people repeat often when it comes to monks nowadays is that they should not be front line fighters but should rush in, blast-attack, then move back out of range.

My main question: I have only 4 ki-points at the moment. I didn't know how useful "Mobility" would have been for disengaging at will, so I didn't get it at lvl4 and will have to wait until lvl8 now. What would be the best attack strat without "Mobility"? I reach lvl5 soon, so can I stun an enemy with Stunning Strike and then move away from him to attack a weaker foe, without the Stunned enemy doing an Attack of Opportunity? This would be considered a "Mobile" light, sort of?

What kind of weapon does a steel-ball necklace count as?
Hi!

Honestly, imo your tactic is totally good for now.
What people tell about Monks rushing in and out for surgical strikes is usually pertaining lvl >=5 Monks, meaning Monks that have Stunning Strike. I'd even say >=8 in fact, because such strikes are usually Ki-heavy (1 for Dashing / Disengaging or Flurry of Blows, 1 Ki for each Stunning Strike attempt), and it's only when both your ability modifier and proficiency bonus grow that Stunning Strike becomes reliable enough to count on it.

It is also usually more true "in general" that it is for your specific character, because basic Monk doesn't get "good" ranged attack (daggers have limited range) and most players don't invest heavily (or rather, anything at all) in ranged attacks.

Because you have Sharpshooter with a longbow, your strategy is the best one: weaken at range, finish in melee.
Once you get Stunning Strike, you will have to start making "surgical strikes" sometimes, so you will have to think a bit more about tactical position so you can, if/when needed, make a break through enemy lines to try and disable a dangerous foe.
Still, the most important for you is to stay safe, so until you get more life/defense and related features (Open Hand Regen, Evasion, ASI) you have to make such strikes only when you are sure you can come back safely (= at worst minimal damage).

TL;DR: you are playing your strengths rightly. Once you get Stunning Strike, start to think about how to use it efficiently while limiting resource consumption, and most importantly, staying safe (one Monk pinned down / circled by enemies is never gonna help the party).

I always want to put Mobile on a monk but I never can justify it as Step of the Wind exists. Yes, SotW takes ki, but if I ever really need it then it will be worth it.

I love the mobile feat, don't get me wrong I put it on almost anything, but I always feel like another feat or ability boost is more worth it.
I guess it's different for each player, and also depends on campaign. In a campaign when you have chances to take short rest nearly every time you really need it (= you don't feel "on the rocks"), sure Mobile is kinda a waste.

But for low-level campaigns or when you never know, on a given adventuring day, if you will have any chance to short rest before the next encounter (which should happen fairly often when you think about it), having a disengage that costs "only" a weapon attack greatly improve your resource management so your overall efficiency.


Mobile will do very little for you, especially as an Open Hand Monk.

The best thing to do is boost your Dex and Wis.

Sharpshooter was a terrible choice.
On the contrary!!
1) Open Hand Monk wants, much more than the other monks, use his bonus action for Flurry of Blows because he can apply his free effect on it. With Mobile, he has no competition between offense (attack) or defense (disengage), since everything is combined in his weapon attacks.
Also, extra 10 feet is always great on a class that want to hit and run.

2) Sharpshooter is a peculiar choice, but not "terrible" by far as you pretend. It brings another dimension to Monk's flexibility.
A normal Monk, in a fight that start from afar, has to consider whether rush in head on, so "alone" (and risk getting several ranged/melee attacks while he going up and back) because his mobility is that much greater than the rest of his party.
A Monk with Sharpshooter can better preserve his own safety by advancing just enough to be able to throw daggers and pull back, so potentially sparing 1 Ki (either Dash or Disengage).
A Monk with Sharpshooter and longbow is plain better than a normal Monk because, in the time a normal Monk would just have to dash to reduce the distance, this one could unleash one/two turns of Attack. Without consuming any Ki.

Another situation: you'd like to damage a powerful enemy that is firmly enclosed by a personal guard.
A normal Monk would have no chance of reaching it and going out without taking several OA. He could try to throw daggers instead, but will suffer a -2 AC penalty at least because the guards provide cover for his target. He could use his bonus action to Disengage but then he can only make 2 attacks, and he will still consume much movement to go in and back, so he will stay close to danger.

A Monk with Mobile won't make much of a difference here (except a 4E Monk who can extend his reach).
A Monk with Sharpshooter just have to come within 60 feet of his target, attack and fall back. Minimum move expenditure, maximum efficiency, still has his bonus action for anything he wants.
A Monk with Sharpshooter and longbow will laugh away as his arrow pierces the head from >300 feet away.
More generally, having a good ranged attack means the Monk has a chance to hit all his enemies with lesser resource expenditure.

Both options greatly improve the array of options available for a Monk on any given turn, so they are both nice for his character (would not recommend Sharpshooter without longbow, not because it's bad, but because Monk has higher priorities usually, between WIS bump, Mobile, Mage Slayer, etc).


Well, I don't think a feat needs to make you more of a Monk. You are already all the monk you can ever be.

Some good feat options for a Monk (who has good stats already)

Healer: Monks are seen as healers, this is a good way to spread some love.

Mage Slayer: Ok, so this feat doesn't win versus shocking grasp and some other spells and it doesn't really make you a good mage slayer BUT the monk has attacks that stun which work off a hit and not the attack action...

Magic Initiate: Magic Monk

Ritual Caster: Magic Monk with a pet (find familiar)

Sentinel: Your single attacks don't do a lot of damage, but stunning a creature is downright nasty.

Skulker: Sneaky monk. Also, if you have darkvision, you no longer have disadvantage while using said darkvision.

Spell Sniper: Magic Monk, gives a good ranged option for when you can't throw your fists far enough. Refluff this as a wave fist attack.
Agreed on this list, except Spell Sniper is a bad choice for OP since both INT and CHA are bad.
To OP though, I'm not sure still Mobile would be the next choice for your next ASI. If you plan on using Stunning Strike, maxing WIS may be very well the best choice.
You may also consider somewhere a single level dip in Life Cleric: you could use Bless on yourself, fighter and rogue (since you don't have anything else to use concentration on), or Shield of Faith on yourself when you are about to try a dangerous stunt. Only 2 slots is sad, but I think it may be worth it though.
Or you may consider, if your DM is nice, taking the Ritual Caster feat on Wizard list. It does not improve your combat abilities, but I see nobody in your party has any ritual, and many of them go from good to lifesavers in most campaigns (Alarm, Comprehend Languages, Find Familiar, Detect Magic, Gentle Repose, Silence, Leomund's Tiny Hut, Phantom Steed, Water Breathing, Water Walk).

[Scarytincan]

I think he was referring to stunning fist when he mentioned the con save.

Unlikely since he said he was lvl 4. It's possible he simply put the wrong save however

[Deleted]

Hi!

Honestly, imo your tactic is totally good for now.
What people tell about Monks rushing in and out for surgical strikes is usually pertaining lvl >=5 Monks, meaning Monks that have Stunning Strike. I'd even say >=8 in fact, because such strikes are usually Ki-heavy (1 for Dashing / Disengaging or Flurry of Blows, 1 Ki for each Stunning Strike attempt), and it's only when both your ability modifier and proficiency bonus grow that Stunning Strike becomes reliable enough to count on it.

It is also usually more true "in general" that it is for your specific character, because basic Monk doesn't get "good" ranged attack (daggers have limited range) and most players don't invest heavily (or rather, anything at all) in ranged attacks.

Because you have Sharpshooter with a longbow, your strategy is the best one: weaken at range, finish in melee.
Once you get Stunning Strike, you will have to start making "surgical strikes" sometimes, so you will have to think a bit more about tactical position so you can, if/when needed, make a break through enemy lines to try and disable a dangerous foe.
Still, the most important for you is to stay safe, so until you get more life/defense and related features (Open Hand Regen, Evasion, ASI) you have to make such strikes only when you are sure you can come back safely (= at worst minimal damage).

TL;DR: you are playing your strengths rightly. Once you get Stunning Strike, start to think about how to use it efficiently while limiting resource consumption, and most importantly, staying safe (one Monk pinned down / circled by enemies is never gonna help the party).

I guess it's different for each player, and also depends on campaign. In a campaign when you have chances to take short rest nearly every time you really need it (= you don't feel "on the rocks"), sure Mobile is kinda a waste.

But for low-level campaigns or when you never know, on a given adventuring day, if you will have any chance to short rest before the next encounter (which should happen fairly often when you think about it), having a disengage that costs "only" a weapon attack greatly improve your resource management so your overall efficiency.


On the contrary!!
1) Open Hand Monk wants, much more than the other monks, use his bonus action for Flurry of Blows because he can apply his free effect on it. With Mobile, he has no competition between offense (attack) or defense (disengage), since everything is combined in his weapon attacks.
Also, extra 10 feet is always great on a class that want to hit and run.

2) Sharpshooter is a peculiar choice, but not "terrible" by far as you pretend. It brings another dimension to Monk's flexibility.
A normal Monk, in a fight that start from afar, has to consider whether rush in head on, so "alone" (and risk getting several ranged/melee attacks while he going up and back) because his mobility is that much greater than the rest of his party.
A Monk with Sharpshooter can better preserve his own safety by advancing just enough to be able to throw daggers and pull back, so potentially sparing 1 Ki (either Dash or Disengage).
A Monk with Sharpshooter and longbow is plain better than a normal Monk because, in the time a normal Monk would just have to dash to reduce the distance, this one could unleash one/two turns of Attack. Without consuming any Ki.

Another situation: you'd like to damage a powerful enemy that is firmly enclosed by a personal guard.
A normal Monk would have no chance of reaching it and going out without taking several OA. He could try to throw daggers instead, but will suffer a -2 AC penalty at least because the guards provide cover for his target. He could use his bonus action to Disengage but then he can only make 2 attacks, and he will still consume much movement to go in and back, so he will stay close to danger.

A Monk with Mobile won't make much of a difference here (except a 4E Monk who can extend his reach).
A Monk with Sharpshooter just have to come within 60 feet of his target, attack and fall back. Minimum move expenditure, maximum efficiency, still has his bonus action for anything he wants.
A Monk with Sharpshooter and longbow will laugh away as his arrow pierces the head from >300 feet away.
More generally, having a good ranged attack means the Monk has a chance to hit all his enemies with lesser resource expenditure.

Both options greatly improve the array of options available for a Monk on any given turn, so they are both nice for his character (would not recommend Sharpshooter without longbow, not because it's bad, but because Monk has higher priorities usually, between WIS bump, Mobile, Mage Slayer, etc).


Agreed on this list, except Spell Sniper is a bad choice for OP since both INT and CHA are bad.
To OP though, I'm not sure still Mobile would be the next choice for your next ASI. If you plan on using Stunning Strike, maxing WIS may be very well the best choice.
You may also consider somewhere a single level dip in Life Cleric: you could use Bless on yourself, fighter and rogue (since you don't have anything else to use concentration on), or Shield of Faith on yourself when you are about to try a dangerous stunt. Only 2 slots is sad, but I think it may be worth it though.
Or you may consider, if your DM is nice, taking the Ritual Caster feat on Wizard list. It does not improve your combat abilities, but I see nobody in your party has any ritual, and many of them go from good to lifesavers in most campaigns (Alarm, Comprehend Languages, Find Familiar, Detect Magic, Gentle Repose, Silence, Leomund's Tiny Hut, Phantom Steed, Water Breathing, Water Walk).


Produce Flame for Spell Sniper. So many times ive seen monks standing around because a creature is behind 3/4th cover and they didn't want to waste their ammo (see darts... Shurikens).

Mobile just isn't worth it compared to almost every other option because just about every other option is something you couldn't already do.

[Specter]

Mobile may not be the best option for monks, but it's definitely a good one. You go from 'skirmisher' to 'ninja vanishing kicking machine'.

+10 feet of movement: Having the speed of a 10th-level monk on 4th-level one, or the 18th-level speed on a 10-level one is not to be underestimated. If you have a fleeing enemy, you can move your normal speed and still attack them in full. It can be the difference between making one thrown dagger attack, or all three of them. But of course, this is the kind of thing that gets no respect from most optimizers, because they rarely consider adversities in the field.

Not being hampered by difficult terrain: This is very campaign dependant, naturally (I've played in some where we saw no difficult terrain at all). But it also goes nicely to coordinate effects with your caster. He could create an area where enemies are slowed down (like with Sleet Storm) and you can move in and out easily. This works best if the party is not melee-heavy, otherwise your other friends could be hurt. In any case, if the enemy caster Spike Growths your whole party, it's up to you to punch him in the face.

Getting no opportunity attacks from the attacked: This is where the gold lies. A 4th-level monk could close in on one enemy (or many), attack them and a) move back behind the tanks (to be safe), or b) move deeper into the enemy line to reach unprotected menaces (like casters). A regular monk could do this, but wasting his bonus action and a ki point (with less speed).
Or, if you yourself and hurt and need to pull back, you can still launch two attacks before moving away (and doing whatever you want with the bonus action). And when you're focused on one enemy, you can kite like hell. Attack them, move away, and watch them follow. Next round, attack and move beyond his reach so he can't attack you. Third turn, close in again, and so on. Half the normal 'duel' damage.
______________________________
Basically, Mobile lets you do what you already do well, masterfully. If you're trying to optimize those strenghts, take it.

I don't like Resilient for Monks, because they will eventually get all saving throws, and Stillness of Mind is there to thwart those charm/fear effects.

[BillyBobShorton]

Monk "strats"?? Like Jimi Jendrix? Hmmm. Interesting. I always thought of Bards being the musical class, but they come in all shapes and sizes.

[Bahamut7]

Specter already stated this well, but here is my 2 cents as a monk player.

Mobile is a fantastic feat for a monk but not necessary. It will make your Monk better without expending resources (BA and Ki), but you don't need it to play effectively. Especially on an open Hand monk. The Open Hand Monk could knock prone every person they hit during their 3 - 4 attacks and never need Mobile...but if the enemies save, then you would wish to have it. If you were using a different Sub Class, you would have to reconsider (Sun Soul shouldn't need it for example). Just make sure you can still max out your Dex and Wis. If the feats take away too much and your Dm is cool with letting you find the Manual of Quickness and Tome of Understanding, you can make up for a +2 increase to your Dex and Wisdom.

Otherwise, don't worry too much about it. Play your character how you want them to behave, this version isn't optimized required.

[Citan]

Produce Flame for Spell Sniper. So many times ive seen monks standing around because a creature is behind 3/4th cover and they didn't want to waste their ammo (see darts... Shurikens).

Mobile just isn't worth it compared to almost every other option because just about every other option is something you couldn't already do.
Your last sentence is a good point indeed. Most other feats allow you to expand abilities towards a totally new direction, whereas Mobile is just "more Monk".

It's a matter of taste I guess (I'm personally fan of single level dip in Cleric or Druid ^^).

[Deleted]

Your last sentence is a good point indeed. Most other feats allow you to expand abilities towards a totally new direction, whereas Mobile is just "more Monk".

It's a matter of taste I guess (I'm personally fan of single level dip in Cleric or Druid ^^).

Mobile is probably my favorite feat, so I don't say any of the things about Mobile out of disrespect for what it is.

Honestly, it's the only way I can play a Fighter (Champion/Battle Master) for more than two seconds and I absolutely love it on a Barbarian.

[Scarytincan]

Specter already stated this well, but here is my 2 cents as a monk player.

Mobile is a fantastic feat for a monk but not necessary. It will make your Monk better without expending resources (BA and Ki), but you don't need it to play effectively. Especially on an open Hand monk. The Open Hand Monk could knock prone every person they hit during their 3 - 4 attacks and never need Mobile...but if the enemies save, then you would wish to have it. If you were using a different Sub Class, you would have to reconsider (Sun Soul shouldn't need it for example). Just make sure you can still max out your Dex and Wis. If the feats take away too much and your Dm is cool with letting you find the Manual of Quickness and Tome of Understanding, you can make up for a +2 increase to your Dex and Wisdom.

Otherwise, don't worry too much about it. Play your character how you want them to behave, this version isn't optimized required.

iirc, could only knock up to 2 prone as it only applies to the flurry attacks

[BillyBobShorton]

Monk "strats"?? Like Jimi Jendrix, Eric Clapton, Gilmour, and Stevie Ray? Hmmm. Interesting. I always thought of Bards being the musical class, but they come in all shapes and sizes, I guess.

[Specter]

Jimi Jendrix,

The more you know, huh?

[BillyBobShorton]

The more you know, huh?
It's a soft "J"...

[Aell]

Thank you all for your input, you have given me a lot to think about regarding strategies and versatility. The question now comes to what I will spend at level 8 ASI?

Citan:


To OP though, I'm not sure still Mobile would be the next choice for your next ASI. If you plan on using Stunning Strike, maxing WIS may be very well the best choice.

I think I will definitely want to max either Dex or Wis to 20. Can you help me with arguments for and against? All I can see at first glance is that Dex would give me more To Hit?, more AC, better dex-saving throws, and a boost to my Acrobatics, Stealth, and Sleight of Hand. What other Pro:s have I missed?

What does maxing Wisdom give me? Is it To Hit or attack damage? And then a little armor-boost, as well as boost to Perception and Survival (not had one Survival check in a full year of play, though). How does high Wis help my future Stunning Strike?

By the way, I chose the Outlander background, so my Proficiency skills are currently:
Acrobatics 6
Athletics 4
Perception 6
Stealth 6
Survival 6

[BillyBobShorton]

Thank you all for your input, you have given me a lot to think about regarding strategies and versatility. The question now comes to what I will spend at level 8 ASI?

Citan:



I think I will definitely want to max either Dex or Wis to 20. Can you help me with arguments for and against? All I can see at first glance is that Dex would give me more To Hit?, more AC, better dex-saving throws, and a boost to my Acrobatics, Stealth, and Sleight of Hand. What other Pro:s have I missed?

What does maxing Wisdom give me? Is it To Hit or attack damage? And then a little armor-boost, as well as boost to Perception and Survival (not had one Survival check in a full year of play, though). How does high Wis help my future Stunning Strike?

By the way, I chose the Outlander background, so my Proficiency skills are currently:
Acrobatics 6
Athletics 4
Perception 6
Stealth 6
Survival 6

Wis is Basically your Spell Save DC modifier/Special Effect enhancer, so when you (attempt to) stun them, for example, they make a con save vs your wis modifier+proficiency bonus+8. Just like a spell.

[Fishyninja]

TI think I will definitely want to max either Dex or Wis to 20. Can you help me with arguments for and against? All I can see at first glance is that Dex would give me more To Hit?, more AC, better dex-saving throws, and a boost to my Acrobatics, Stealth, and Sleight of Hand. What other Pro:s have I missed?

What does maxing Wisdom give me? Is it To Hit or attack damage? And then a little armor-boost, as well as boost to Perception and Survival (not had one Survival check in a full year of play, though). How does high Wis help my future Stunning Strike?


Wis is Basically your Spell Save DC modifier/Special Effect enhancer, so when you (attempt to) stun them, for example, they make a con save vs your wis modifier+proficiency bonus+8. Just like a spell.

As BBS said, maxing your Wis makes it hader for enemies to resist your Monk abilities (Stunning Strike being the greates one). Also do not forget Wis also adds to your AC.

I think you have covered most of the Dex based items.

[Aell]

Wis is Basically your Spell Save DC modifier/Special Effect enhancer, so when you (attempt to) stun them, for example, they make a con save vs your wis modifier+proficiency bonus+8. Just like a spell.

But when I reach level 8 my proficiency bonus is up from 2 to 3, so for a Stunning Strike I have Prof 3 + Wis 4 plus 8 =15. If I max out Wis I get 16.

What would be the argument for maxing Dex instead?

[Desamir]

But when I reach level 8 my proficiency bonus is up from 2 to 3, so for a Stunning Strike I have Prof 3 + Wis 4 plus 8 =15. If I max out Wis I get 16.

What would be the argument for maxing Dex instead?

Ideally, you want both, but Dex is more important. It grants you a bonus to attack, damage, and AC. Wisdom grants you an AC bonus and an increase to your stunning strike DC. While stunning is important, landing hits to stun in the first place is also important, and having accurate, damaging attacks always matters, even when you run out of ki.

(By the way, your proficiency bonus goes to +3 at 5th level, not 8th.)

[Fishyninja]

But when I reach level 8 my proficiency bonus is up from 2 to 3, so for a Stunning Strike I have Prof 3 + Wis 4 plus 8 =15. If I max out Wis I get 16.

What would be the argument for maxing Dex instead?

Greater chance to hit and damage rolls.

So far example if you have 20 Dexterity, your damage bonus will be +5. Your Attack Bonus will be +11 not including any loot you have picked up.
Also again Your AC will be going up too.

[Aell]

Greater chance to hit and damage rolls.

So far example if you have 20 Dexterity, your damage bonus will be +5. Your Attack Bonus will be +11 not including any loot you have picked up.
Also again Your AC will be going up too.

That sounds amazing! My current attack bonus is +6, how will it get to +11 by level 8?

[Citan]

Thank you all for your input, you have given me a lot to think about regarding strategies and versatility. The question now comes to what I will spend at level 8 ASI?

Citan:



I think I will definitely want to max either Dex or Wis to 20. Can you help me with arguments for and against? All I can see at first glance is that Dex would give me more To Hit?, more AC, better dex-saving throws, and a boost to my Acrobatics, Stealth, and Sleight of Hand. What other Pro:s have I missed?

What does maxing Wisdom give me? Is it To Hit or attack damage? And then a little armor-boost, as well as boost to Perception and Survival (not had one Survival check in a full year of play, though). How does high Wis help my future Stunning Strike?

By the way, I chose the Outlander background, so my Proficiency skills are currently:
Acrobatics 6
Athletics 4
Perception 6
Stealth 6
Survival 6
What others said.
To give a small other detail...
For a Monk, AC-wise, bumping WIS or DEX is the same.
DEX gives a slightly better initiative, but 1 point won't usually make a true difference anyways.
The most important thing is: beyond that, DEX covers "only" attack chance and damage, which can be boosted in so many other ways (Help, spells/allies providing advantage, Shoving, Bless, Lucky, magic weapons etc).

As for WIS, unless you have a Wild Magic Sorcerer, a Diviner Wizard or a Lucky "feater", you are the only one that can improve the odds of your Monk abilities succeeding: Flurry of Blows extra effects, Stunning Strike, Tranquillity (don't disregard this, sometimes very useful).
And, while you are perfectly right to ask yourself this...

But when I reach level 8 my proficiency bonus is up from 2 to 3, so for a Stunning Strike I have Prof 3 + Wis 4 plus 8 =15. If I max out Wis I get 16.

What would be the argument for maxing Dex instead?
Otherwise said, "why should I bother with only +1 increase on spell DC?"...
Well, it's because you usually want your Stunning Strike to succeed, because everyone is counting on it to succeed. So on occasions when enemy would make the save, if you stayed at current WIS, you would always wonder if "that" point more could have made the difference and turn the encounter... ;)


That is why I usually suggest WIS first. Of course, I'm supposing you are playing in a party. For a solo character, choice would be much harder imo. :)

EDIT: While I think about it, forget the "advice" about taking Resilient: Wisdom (or any "Resilient" feat for that matter). That is (sorry to be harsh) utter crap "advice" to tell to a Monk who will gain proficiency in all saves anyways at level 14. Poster probably just forgot about it. ^^

[Maxilian]

It sounds like your optimal way to play a Monk is to run around hitting each mook once.

It's really not their thing. They are great at getting through defenses to take out powerful but squishy creatures.

If mooks are all there are, then they are better off concentrating on one at a time. If you take a creature down to 0 HP there is no need to run away from it.

You're under the assumption that you are going to kill your enemy in one turn.



I'm not saying that Mobile is never useful to a Monk. It just happens so rarely, and the benefit when it does is so minor that it really isn't worth it.


It depends a lot on play style, i have played the Monk a couple of times, and Mobile have always been usefull (the +10 speed and the ability to ignore the need of disengage is quite nice -Letting me use more ki points for more attacks or more speed)



I would take +1 Dex over Mobile. It's mind boggingly to me that you would take Mobile over +2 Dex. You are losing out on so much effectiveness.


That could be debated, Dex give you better Hit and damage, better AC (That if you work with a hit and run tactic may not even be that needed) and give you a better chance on catching proyectile (A mobile monk biggest problem are basically range attacks)



Please describe an actual common in game scenario with a standard party where this makes sense. I'm even playing a Monk right now in a published adventure so these sorts of things are fresh in mind.


Any scenario that includes a caster (they are going to be in the backline, so you could go in there, beat the **** of the caster and end up at the other side of the enemy, so they will be forced to ignore you (and leave the caster on their own) or try following you (and they won't be able to reach you unless they use their action to dash to you, wasting their opportunity to actually attack you) and leaving your teanmates with less mobs on them at the same time.

In the end, there are a lot of ways you can take advantage of the Mobile feat (I agree that its not a MOST HAVE) but its a great feat.




Yes. Not in those exact words but this is the result of your argument. You said a Monk needs to run away to be safe. So I said, how does that make them safe? And then you said a Fighter will protect them. If that is the solution to the game then 1 Fighter is all you need.


I think he means that he will be out of range of most melee attack, having range attacks as its only true problem

[Fishyninja]

That sounds amazing! My current attack bonus is +6, how will it get to +11 by level 8?

That would be based on having full dex at level 20. At level 8 if you had a full Dex your Attack Bonus would be: +8.

I.e. +3 From Prof Bonus and +5 from Dex Modifier.

[Bahamut7]

When it comes to a Monk, prioritizing Dex over Wis or vice versa comes down to play style and subclass. Early on Dex will help immensely, while Wis doesn't become important until a subclass (level 3) relies on it or Stunning Strike (level 5). If you plan on multiclassing a Wis class and have at least a +3 in Dex from the start you can focus on wis. Either way both dex and wis will boost your AC.

Monk core abilities: Stunning Strike is Wis dependent and Evasion is Dex dependent. I would prioritize Stunning Strike over Evasion here.

Monk subclasses:

Open Hand: OH Technique, Tranquility, and Quivering Palm are Wis dependent.

Shadow: Opportunist is Dex based.

4 Elements: Practically everything is Wis dependent.

Long Death: 3/4 abilities are Wis Dependent.

Sun Soul: Radiant Sun Bolt is Dex dependent and everything else uses Wis.

Kensai: Slightly Dex dependent...oddly enough dex and wis aren't that important for this path in regards to dependency.

Tranquility: Wis dependent...though more reliant on Monk levels.

As you can see, all physical aspects are Dex based with Wis contributing to the supernatural stuff. While maxing out Dex is good, Wis can be your priority moreso if you are going to focus on other monk abilities.

[Aell]

Interesting. Yes, once I get to level 8 I will probably boost Wis for the stunning strike. I have a question regarding the mechanics of stunning strike and knock prone, though:

When I do a stuning strike the opponent must roll against my Wis modifier (4), prof bonus (3 at lvl 5), plus 8, so 15. What number do opponents roll against when I try to knock them prone during my flurry of blows? They do a "Con save", against what?

[Citan]

Interesting. Yes, once I get to level 8 I will probably boost Wis for the stunning strike. I have a question regarding the mechanics of stunning strike and knock prone, though:

When I do a stuning strike the opponent must roll against my Wis modifier (4), prof bonus (3 at lvl 5), plus 8, so 15. What number do opponents roll against when I try to knock them prone during my flurry of blows? They do a "Con save", against what?
Same: your "spell" DC. Hence the importance of WIS. :)

[Desamir]

Interesting. Yes, once I get to level 8 I will probably boost Wis for the stunning strike. I have a question regarding the mechanics of stunning strike and knock prone, though:

When I do a stuning strike the opponent must roll against my Wis modifier (4), prof bonus (3 at lvl 5), plus 8, so 15. What number do opponents roll against when I try to knock them prone during my flurry of blows? They do a "Con save", against what?

Same number.

[Aell]

Great. I am going to remind my DM of these numbers, because I don't think he has taken all of them into account when handling my earlier prone-knock attempts. And we play tomorrow, so very handy that I asked this.

[Bahamut7]

Great. I am going to remind my DM of these numbers, because I don't think he has taken all of them into account when handling my earlier prone-knock attempts. And we play tomorrow, so very handy that I asked this.

Yea remember like a caster, the DC is decided by your 8 + Proficiency + Wisdom Modifier and the type of roll the target has to make is this total number but based on the stat the ability states.

So let's say you are a level 5 Monk with 20 Wis. You hit a target with Stunning Strike. The DC is 8 + 3 + 5 = 16. They must make a Constitution Saving throw that meets or beats that number. So 1d20 + Con mod + proficiency (if they are proficient in Con saving throws).

[Aell]

Yes, I'll remember that.

Another question I have wanted to ask, for those of you who are actively playing a monk at this time or remember what their old monk used to wield (maybe this deserves a thread of its own, actually?), what kind of weapon loadout is your monk using? Main, ranged? Any backup weapons?

As I said, I have a silvered spear, a longbow, and a thick steel-ball necklace (mostly for RP, but I will use it practically when the opportunity presents itself). I have had the spear for about 5 sessions, and I have already happened upon one creature whose immunities I pierced (Bearded Devil). Was great.

[Desamir]

Yes, I'll remember that.

Another question I have wanted to ask, for those of you who are actively playing a monk at this time or remember what their old monk used to wield (maybe this deserves a thread of its own, actually?), what kind of weapon loadout is your monk using? Main, ranged? Any backup weapons?

As I said, I have a silvered spear, a longbow, and a thick steel-ball necklace (mostly for RP, but I will use it practically when the opportunity presents itself). I have had the spear for about 5 sessions, and I have already happened upon one creature whose immunities I pierced (Bearded Devil). Was great.

My wood elf shadow monk used a short sword in melee, with a longbow and darts for backup.

Quarterstaff is technically the best weapon you can use until 11th level (1d8 vs. 1d6) but I didn't care about the extra 2ish points of damage per turn, so I stuck with the shortsword since it's more thematic for an assassin-type monk.

Also, and I'm kicking myself for not thinking of this earlier, you should read the 5e monk handbook (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?469111-GUIDE-Meditation-Mediation-Devastation-A-Monk-s-Guide). I think you will find it useful.

[Bahamut7]

Yes, I'll remember that.

Another question I have wanted to ask, for those of you who are actively playing a monk at this time or remember what their old monk used to wield (maybe this deserves a thread of its own, actually?), what kind of weapon loadout is your monk using? Main, ranged? Any backup weapons?

As I said, I have a silvered spear, a longbow, and a thick steel-ball necklace (mostly for RP, but I will use it practically when the opportunity presents itself). I have had the spear for about 5 sessions, and I have already happened upon one creature whose immunities I pierced (Bearded Devil). Was great.

My monk is a failed Wizard and can cast a few cantrips and make goodberries. He is seeking a new path and is following an old book that talks of a different type of magic that requires the Mind, Body, and Soul to be in balance. So mechanically I am a Monk (with magic Initiate) that will be taking the Sun Soul Tradition that can already shoot mini fireballs and magically repair items. I have reflavored Darts as Force darts (still just darts) and unarmed attacks as Mage Fist (a nod to the hilarious Fist Wizard). I still wield a quarterstaff and joke that a good old knock to the head should never be underestimated. I will drop the staff once my unarmed damage reaches 1d8 (so level 11). Any perceptive character will realize that I am doing very little magic and realize something is up...until I reach level 3 and then level 11.

Honestly your loadout is fine for what you are RPing. If you want to drop your weapon earlier and goes fist a cuffs, you can ask your DM for a homebrew item that ups your unarmed damage by one tier (something I have been considering).

My question to you, are you going the full 20 levels in Monk? I know if you are Open Hand you will at least hit 17 (and get that 1d10 as well).

[Aell]

Honestly your loadout is fine for what you are RPing. If you want to drop your weapon earlier and goes fist a cuffs, you can ask your DM for a homebrew item that ups your unarmed damage by one tier (something I have been considering).

My question to you, are you going the full 20 levels in Monk? I know if you are Open Hand you will at least hit 17 (and get that 1d10 as well).

Thanks! I do like my spear, and it has some RP-value since casting the spearhead and silvering it was financed with the money of a dead former partymember, so he kind of lives on in the spear, in a way. Old Babar the barbarian, had the sense to run swordless up to an Illithid and punch him in the face. The sound of the mindflayer's tentacles ripping his skull open lives on in my monk.

About my future level progression, I have no idea how long the current campaign will be allowed to go on. My DM started it a year ago just to show me how D&D works, and he also invited one of his friends, and later his son. We only get to play about once or twice a month, usually, when schedules align. It has taken one year to get within spitting distance of level 5 (6500xp, I am at 5200 IIRC).

I am the only player in the current party whose original character is still alive, I will want to get my monk as far as he can go, I really like the class. I want to feel the power of at least an lvl-11 crazy ass slaughtermonk. But it's up to the DM and how long he feels like doing this with us.

It can be very hard to play since the party has very little cohesion or experience with group strategy, the guy playing the fighter doesn't even know what a tank is or what they do.

[Bahamut7]

Thanks! I do like my spear, and it has some RP-value since casting the spearhead and silvering it was financed with the money of a dead former partymember, so he kind of lives on in the spear, in a way. Old Babar the barbarian, had the sense to run swordless up to an Illithid and punch him in the face. The sound of the mindflayer's tentacles ripping his skull open lives on in my monk.

About my future level progression, I have no idea how long the current campaign will be allowed to go on. My DM started it a year ago just to show me how D&D works, and he also invited one of his friends, and later his son. We only get to play about once or twice a month, usually, when schedules align. It has taken one year to get within spitting distance of level 5 (6500xp, I am at 5200 IIRC).

I am the only player in the current party whose original character is still alive, I will want to get my monk as far as he can go, I really like the class. I want to feel the power of at least an lvl-11 crazy ass slaughtermonk. But it's up to the DM and how long he feels like doing this with us.

It can be very hard to play since the party has very little cohesion or experience with group strategy, the guy playing the fighter doesn't even know what a tank is or what they do.

I love the RP flair...those Mindflayer's :shudders:

I would hold onto the character if the campaign falls apart. If you can't find another group locally, you can always look for something on roll20.net and continue your Monk's path. I know my DM on roll 20 loves good RP especially on a character's development.

[Aell]

That sounds nice, didn't know about roll20.net. I will definitely keep my papers if this falls apart. My character feels like a dark wooden figure I am whittling on, and for every levelup, clothes-switch, wound, and heal, the figure gets more detailed, defined. The Illithid tattoo on his chest made a permanent mark.

Just got word that today's play is cancelled due to illness (again). And we just got a 5th member, which makes scheduling even harder. Fml.

I am very much for the RP of it all, even though I try to improve my guy as fast as I can. Are your exchanges on roll20.net typing-based or voicechat? How are rolls kept honest? Digital dies or just honor system?

[Fishyninja]

To reflect Desamir.

For physical weapons, Shortswords, daggers, darts, knives, spears.

You can refluff these as liong as the damage is the same.

For example my monk uses a Quarterstaff which I have refluffed as a lantern pole.
My Daggers are Kerambits etc, but they keep their Damage Die.

[Fishyninja]

Are your exchanges on roll20.net typing-based or voicechat? How are rolls kept honest? Digital dies or just honor system?
Double post my bad.

First of all, exhanges:
4 ways to do this:

Text in game
Voice and Video in game
Discord
Skype


In regards to rolls, you can either hand type in your rolls (eg. /roll 1d20+[modifier], then if you hit, 1d8+[modifer]) and they appear in the type feed.
Also if you click on the weaon on the character sheet in roll 20 it will auto roll all of that for you.

You also have the option to have graphical die appear as well.

[Desamir]

Are your exchanges on roll20.net typing-based or voicechat? How are rolls kept honest? Digital dies or just honor system?

Roll20 has a virtual tabletop with a map, digital dice, text chat, and video chat. It also has pretty detailed digital character sheets that calculate everything for you and execute roll macros.

[Fishyninja]

Roll20 has a virtual tabletop with a map, digital dice, text chat, and video chat. It also has pretty detailed digital character sheets that calculate everything for you and execute roll macros.

Hey Aell if you sign up search for me (same user name) I'll give you a tutorial if you want.

[Bahamut7]

We use discord for talking and the digital dice on roll20. You can set up macros or just spec your character sheet out and click each ability and it will roll. It accounts for crits and advantage/disadvantage. Though I miss rolling my actual dice.

[Fishyninja]

We use discord for talking and the digital dice on roll20. You can set up macros or just spec your character sheet out and click each ability and it will roll. It accounts for crits and advantage/disadvantage. Though I miss rolling my actual dice.

Indeed but for a free website it fits the bill really well.

[Desamir]

We use discord for talking and the digital dice on roll20. You can set up macros or just spec your character sheet out and click each ability and it will roll. It accounts for crits and advantage/disadvantage. Though I miss rolling my actual dice.

I miss rolling dice too, but I have to say, being able to click a button and roll eight skeleton archer attacks simultaneously makes it almost worth it. Roll20 makes playing a necromancer practical.

[Fishyninja]

I miss rolling dice too, but I have to say, being able to click a button and roll eight skeleton archer attacks simultaneously makes it almost worth it. Roll20 makes playing a necromancer practical.
Definately makes rolls for Touch of the Long Death and Quivering Palm extremely handy......get it ......Handy.....

I'll show myself out.

[Bahamut7]

Indeed but for a free website it fits the bill really well.

the first level of paid gives you dynamic lighting...worth it

[Fishyninja]

the first level of paid gives you dynamic lighting...worth it
Oh indeed I never never DM'ed on Roll20, on in real life but I play in one game where we use dynamic lighting and it is really effective, however it is only effective for half the party. My character, Our ranger and Warlcok all have dark/truevision. the rest of the party stumble around.

[Aell]

Hey Aell if you sign up search for me (same user name) I'll give you a tutorial if you want.

Thanks for the offer, man. I will see how I can fit it into my current uni schedule, we'll see how it goes.

[Fishyninja]

De Nada.
For ease I have Pm'd you my discord Tag.