Where am I going with this build? 3.5 barbarian

[Akyron]

I am gettling lost with where I am supposed to go with this build.

I can only pull from midnight and core feats and skills. So virtually none of the builds I have seen on this site are applicable. No adamantium tiger monk kryptonite powered world eating monstrosities allowed.

Torque is third level and I feel some suckage. 1 swing and i usually miss. To be fair I am a poor d20 roller.

What skills and feats should i be getting with this character? I am only allowed core and midnight access. What prestige classes could I possible go for in midnight?


I read the being bane and its helpful general info but not in any leveling order.

I am kind of torn between going for more offense and trying to find feats to keep me alive defensively.

Torque- Son of Dunkar
Male Orc; Medium Humanoid ( Orc )
Barbarian3
Hit Dice:
(3d12)+3
Hit Points:
31
Initiative:
+2
Speed:
Walk 40 ft.
AC:
16 (touch 12, flatfooted 16)
Attacks:
Oversized Greater Vardatch +7; Longbow +5; Javelin +5; Dagger +7; Dagger (Thrown) +5; Chain, Spiked +7;
Damage:
OS Greater Vardatch 3d8+4; Longbow 1d8; Javelin 1d6; Dagger 1d4+4; Dagger (Thrown) 1d4; Chain, Spiked 2d4+4;
Vision:
Darkvision
Face / Reach:
5 ft. / 5 ft.
Special Attacks:
Rage
Special Qualities:
+1 racial bonus on attack rolls against Dwarves, +1 racial bonus to attack rolls when fighting in groups of 10 or more orcs whether they are enemies or allies, Fast Movement, Rage, Weapon and Armor Proficiency, Darkvision, Favored Region ~ Northern Marches, Intimidating Size, Rock Throwing, Size Features, Humanoid Traits, Light Sensitivity, Natural Predators, Nightfighting, Resistant to Cold, Spell Resistant, Trap Sense, Uncanny Dodge
Saves:
Fortitude: +4, Reflex: +3, Will: +1
Abilities:
STR*19*(+4), DEX*14*(+2), CON*12*(+1), INT*13*(+1), WIS*10*(+0), CHA*8*(-1)
Skills:

Feats:
Combat Expertise, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Chain (Spiked), OS Vardatch (Greater))
Challenge Rating:
3
Alignment:
Neutral Good
Region: Eredane
Possessions: Hat; Studded Leather; Owlbear Cloak; Boots; Shield, Light Wood; Oversize Rock (8lb); OS Greater Vardatch; Longbow; Javelin; Dagger; OS Chain, Spiked; Saddlebags; Water (Pint); Rations (Trail/Per Day); Flint and Steel;

My next planned feat was combat reflexes. Its possible I should have gone powerattack and cleave.

Thanks for any input. I thought this guy might be a good grappler or tripper but the feats are coming way too slow. If I lose this character during play which seems possible I think I will just be a human with 3 starter feats. I would like to somehow save him though.

[Graysire]

Well, I think the biggest problem might be building a Barbarian as a tripper, because you have your vardatch for damage and your Spiked Chain for tripping, that's all well and good, but it's two feats already, and we pile on Combat Expertise(going for Improved Trip I assume?), and unfortunately, you can't use Combat Expertise while raging, meaning that it has a lot less use than it might for a fighter.

Without some feat retooling I don't think it will be very easy to retool him mechanically, however we do have a bright side.

Without knowing your character well, It's possible he's a bit conflicted, raised barbarically and thus that is how he is accustomed, but instead he prefers to try to fight smarter and doesn't like his Rage ability? The nice thing about Combat Expertise is you can use it when you aren't raging.

[Aimeryan]

If you can use the Tribe Totem ACF from Unearthed Arcana (Page 48) you can swap out your Uncanny Dodge class feature that you get at level 2 for Improved Trip without requiring any prerequisites (so no need for Combat Expertise).

[Akyron]

Well, I think the biggest problem might be building a Barbarian as a tripper, because you have your vardatch for damage and your Spiked Chain for tripping, that's all well and good, but it's two feats already, and we pile on Combat Expertise(going for Improved Trip I assume?), and unfortunately, you can't use Combat Expertise while raging, meaning that it has a lot less use than it might for a fighter.

Without some feat retooling I don't think it will be very easy to retool him mechanically, however we do have a bright side.

Without knowing your character well, It's possible he's a bit conflicted, raised barbarically and thus that is how he is accustomed, but instead he prefers to try to fight smarter and doesn't like his Rage ability? The nice thing about Combat Expertise is you can use it when you aren't raging.

Combat Expertise,
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Chain (Spiked)

are the only feats i have at third level. the vardatch thing came with the race. That it appears in the feat section is a pcgen program anomaly. Thanks for pointing that out.
Does the spiked chain come with some kind of trip ability inherently?
I never noticed if so.

I usually avoid rage until it is clear we are about to lose. Maybe i should just lead off with that. Last night a party of 5 led an ambush against a hundred agents of the shadow that are following us in a mission to deliver something. Anyway our diplomacy guy convinced some Sarcosan bandits to aid us in the ambush and we were able to decimate the band of shadow agents before fleeing. Had I chosen to use barbarian rage at any time I would have been forced to die valiantly but my story would have ended there. Barb rage can be useful but sometimes the combat expertise let me survive long enough for the archers to do their work. I need more survivability somehow.

[Akyron]

If you can use the Tribe Totem ACF from Unearthed Arcana (Page 48) you can swap out your Uncanny Dodge class feature that you get at level 2 for Improved Trip without requiring any prerequisites (so no need for Combat Expertise).

Nope.

Core and midnight books only.
I would love to have been able to do that Though.
Sometimes we just have to work with what we have.

Thanks.

[Aimeryan]

Does the spiked chain come with some kind of trip ability inherently?

It allows you to trip with the weapon, which provides some advantages over having to make an unarmed trip. Futhermore, if you fail to trip and they succeed in their counter trip you can drop the Spiked Chain to avoid being tripped.


Nope.

Core and midnight books only.
I would love to have been able to do that Though.
Sometimes we just have to work with what we have.

Thanks.

Ah, that is unfortunate. Could I recommend a Wizard for you, instead? :annoyed:

The problem with playing Core-only is that it massively disadvantages the non-caster classes; most of the Core stuff is very poor for mundanes. Good luck, though!

[Akyron]

It allows you to trip with the weapon, which provides some advantages over having to make an unarmed trip. Futhermore, if you fail to trip and they succeed in their counter trip you can drop the Spiked Chain to avoid being tripped.



Ah, that is unfortunate. Could I recommend a Wizard for you, instead? :annoyed:

The problem with playing Core-only is that it massively disadvantages the non-caster classes; most of the Core stuff is very poor for mundanes. Good luck, though!

Yeah we are top heavy with casters. I think everyone is a caster except me and one archer. I guess I just need advice on where to go with this for survivability. With what you said about the spiked chain I will try out the trip. I should be pretty good at it with a 19 str.

[emeraldstreak]

permanency enlarge person then, more trip mod, more reach

[Grod_The_Giant]

There's not much in Core that will help your survivability. Heavy Armor Proficiency, maybe, though you'd be best off getting that from dipping Fighter or something. Combat Reflexes and Power Attack will round out your melee strategy. Another level of Barbarian will get you an extra rage, giving you some more wiggle room in how you use it. Then maybe Fighter 2 for feats, Ranger 1 for skill points, and into Horizon Walker for utility?

(I'd generally recommend a variant on the Horizon Tripper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?80415-The-Horizon-Tripper-%28Core-Melee-Build%29), a path you're already treading fairly well.)

[Soranar]

Core only , I don't know midnight books so I'll just assume they don't have anything of note for you.

Core means no pounce , so forget about that

Tripping/Bull rushing , basically every combat strategy gets nerfed when faced with larger creatures and everything will be larger than you so I would avoid those

Mounted combat and archery still works just fine though so I would go for one of those

Mounted combat option:

-get a mount (you rneed one for mounted combat). You can borrow the druid's animal companion if you have one, otherwise buy a horse until you can afford something more exotic
-a normal heavy horse has 4 HD , with armor and a decent ride skill it should survive a while
-once you need something better go for a more exotic mount (griffon, pegasus, plenty of options)
-use a lance (double damage while mounted charging)
-use the lance 2 handed (1.5 times STR and double power attack damage+
-take mounted combat/ride by attack/spirited charge
-once you have those then you can take power attack and sacrifice some BAB for damage (not to much , if you miss it's not worth it)

due to your high STR , you should deal reasonable damage and stay safe due to ride by attack

Archery

-get point blank shot + rapid shot
-shoot at things until they die

[Akyron]

There's not much in Core that will help your survivability. Heavy Armor Proficiency, maybe, though you'd be best off getting that from dipping Fighter or something. Combat Reflexes and Power Attack will round out your melee strategy. Another level of Barbarian will get you an extra rage, giving you some more wiggle room in how you use it. Then maybe Fighter 2 for feats, Ranger 1 for skill points, and into Horizon Walker for utility?


Horizon tripper is exactly what I was going for but about the third session the dm outlawed that move since the world we are in is dimensionally locked down..Midnight.

Good try though. thanks.

[Akyron]

Core only , I don't know midnight books so I'll just assume they don't have anything of note for you.

Core means no pounce , so forget about that

Tripping/Bull rushing , basically every combat strategy gets nerfed when faced with larger creatures and everything will be larger than you so I would avoid those

Mounted combat and archery still works just fine though so I would go for one of those

Mounted combat option:

-get a mount (you rneed one for mounted combat). You can borrow the druid's animal companion if you have one, otherwise buy a horse until you can afford something more exotic
-a normal heavy horse has 4 HD , with armor and a decent ride skill it should survive a while
-once you need something better go for a more exotic mount (griffon, pegasus, plenty of options)
-use a lance (double damage while mounted charging)
-use the lance 2 handed (1.5 times STR and double power attack damage+
-take mounted combat/ride by attack/spirited charge
-once you have those then you can take power attack and sacrifice some BAB for damage (not to much , if you miss it's not worth it)

due to your high STR , you should deal reasonable damage and stay safe due to ride by attack

Archery

-get point blank shot + rapid shot
-shoot at things until they die

Archery may be the way to go. Perhaps dip fighter for a feat then pursue wildlander for the archery feats and greater mobility.. i will have to check it out. thank you.

[weckar]

So umm.... What is midnight? Like Ptolus or something?

[lylsyly]

This (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midnight_(role-playing_game)) is the midnight they are referring to. We have used it sometimes. It not a bad setting, what's holding him done of course is the core only thing.

Unless I am missing something in the setting though, what exactly is keeping you form using the also recommended Horizon Tripper Build?
You don't have to take any of the planar terrains if you don't want/can't.

[Eldariel]

If retraining is on the table, you could always run with Barbarian 1/Wizard 6/Eldritch Knight. Power Attack, Improved Trip and Spirited Charge are the best Core combat feats and you'll have enough feats to pick them all up.

This gives you the inherent ability to Enlarge yourself, Alter Self yourself, Polymorph yourself, Quicken True Strike + Power Attack Spirited Charge and all sorts of sweet utility. And you need Int for Improved Trip anyways. Barbarian's fast movement & proficiencies are nice and Rage is a last resort (since you can't cast under it). Spells are just so good in Core, you'll want some.

Alternatively, coreish Dragon Disciple Barbarians are decent.

EDIT: To extrapolate, a Dragon Disciple can go:
Barbarian 12/Fighter 2/Sorcerer 2/Dragon Disciple 4 (not necessarily in that order) - without Polymorph, this has some of the highest physicals you can run. It has the highest average Spirited Charge charge damage of the base form builds too.

At the present, you'll be served well by either more Barbarian-levels, a Fighter-dip or some casting levels to cast Enlarge Person (though sadly you'd need 11 Charisma to cast Sorcerer-spells). My immediate choice would be to take a level of Fighter for your next level and wear a Fullplate or similar - while it will restrict your movement, the AC bump will be rather noticable. Combine this with picking up Improved Trip as your bonus feat and the bonus to strength and you'll also be better able to protect yourself against melee opponents without letting them get a hit in. And then you can carry a Tower Shield for when you need to just block hits - don't forget the defensive fighting option either.

You'll want to pick up Power Attack, Improved Trip and Spirited Charge either way; those feats are fairly good, especially compared to the rest of the Core-feats. Most importantly Spirited Charge enables moving and attacking efficiently, which is otherwise really hard (casters can use Planar Binding/Phantom Steed/etc. to produce mounts if you have trouble creating them yourself). Sadly I don't know the Midnight content so I can't help you there.


Your Dex leaves something to be desired Archery-wise. You could do far better with enough mobility to get into melee, such as a flying mount. However, if you do want Archery, I generally just take two levels in Ranger for Rapid Shot (forces you to use light armor, but Mithril Breastplate is a great option anyways) and forget about the other feats; you don't need them if Archery is only a part of your arsenal, and most of them are fairly cruddy anyways.

[Akyron]

Core only , I don't know midnight books so I'll just assume they don't have anything of note for you.

Core means no pounce , so forget about that

Tripping/Bull rushing , basically every combat strategy gets nerfed when faced with larger creatures and everything will be larger than you so I would avoid those.



sylvos com/gaming/midnight/midnight_feats.htm is a pretty accurate synopsis website of available midnight feats. I am still digging through them to find something useful.

One of the interesting things about midnight is magic is messed up a bit and all players have a "heroic path" to choose. Mine is giant blooded and basically makes my hands huge to use oversized weapons and throw rocks like a hill giant. I think at 10th level I essentially become a large creature. That helps with str feats. when things are looking grim the casters in the party hit me with enlarge and bull strength and I somehow get close to a 29 strength. My skills and feats are lacking but muscle I have been getting. I hate to get distracted with other things on my way to be able to trip effectively but brutal throw seems pretty nice. I like the archer idea. I think I get improved uncanny dodge soon as a class feature.

[Akyron]

If retraining is on the table, you could always run with Barbarian 1/Wizard 6/Eldritch Knight. Power Attack, Improved Trip and Spirited Charge are the best Core combat feats and you'll have enough feats to pick them all up.

This gives you the inherent ability to Enlarge yourself, Alter Self yourself, Polymorph yourself, Quicken True Strike + Power Attack Spirited Charge and all sorts of sweet utility. And you need Int for Improved Trip anyways. Barbarian's fast movement & proficiencies are nice and Rage is a last resort (since you can't cast under it). Spells are just so good in Core, you'll want some.

Alternatively, coreish Dragon Disciple Barbarians are decent.

EDIT: To extrapolate, a Dragon Disciple can go:
Barbarian 12/Fighter 2/Sorcerer 2/Dragon Disciple 4 (not necessarily in that order) - without Polymorph, this has some of the highest physicals you can run. It has the highest average Spirited Charge charge damage of the base form builds too.

At the present, you'll be served well by either more Barbarian-levels, a Fighter-dip or some casting levels to cast Enlarge Person (though sadly you'd need 11 Charisma to cast Sorcerer-spells). My immediate choice would be to take a level of Fighter for your next level and wear a Fullplate or similar - while it will restrict your movement, the AC bump will be rather noticable. Combine this with picking up Improved Trip as your bonus feat and the bonus to strength and you'll also be better able to protect yourself against melee opponents without letting them get a hit in. And then you can carry a Tower Shield for when you need to just block hits - don't forget the defensive fighting option either.

You'll want to pick up Power Attack, Improved Trip and Spirited Charge either way; those feats are fairly good, especially compared to the rest of the Core-feats. Most importantly Spirited Charge enables moving and attacking efficiently, which is otherwise really hard (casters can use Planar Binding/Phantom Steed/etc. to produce mounts if you have trouble creating them yourself). Sadly I don't know the Midnight content so I can't help you there.


Your Dex leaves something to be desired Archery-wise. You could do far better with enough mobility to get into melee, such as a flying mount. However, if you do want Archery, I generally just take two levels in Ranger for Rapid Shot (forces you to use light armor, but Mithril Breastplate is a great option anyways) and forget about the other feats; you don't need them if Archery is only a part of your arsenal, and most of them are fairly cruddy anyways.


I think wizard is a prestige class in midnight. Need to be about a tenth level arcane based channeler to get there. There is a horseman prestige class. Charger something. I will take a serious look at switching to fighter as soon as I get improved uncanny dodge barb class feature.. Thanks for a response.

[Eldariel]

I think wizard is a prestige class in midnight. Need to be about a tenth level arcane based channeler to get there. There is a horseman prestige class. Charger something. I will take a serious look at switching to fighter as soon as I get improved uncanny dodge barb class feature.. Thanks for a response.

Ah yes, Midnight was the settings with Channeler. Right, I can't really offer arcane tips then. Either way, taking one level of Fighter next level and then continuing Barbarian might be in your best interests. The immediate benefits of Fighter improve your survivability tremendously and the feat also brings the Tripping suite on immediately. Nothing stops you from spending some time on weapon training and then going back to your roots, particularly since Orc favored class is Barbarian.

[Pugwampy]

Assuming you are allowed to respec your orc .

I dont like your two feats . There are better options.

You already have an awesome weapon , you dont need a spike chain . I am very intrigued which book has a vardach wielding orc in it ?

Your combat expertise feat is is very situational . I would rate cleave as higher chance of being used .

In theory being offensive is more satisfying and fills the stereotype Orc role .

Given your limited book choices , if you want offense replace your feats with power attack and cleave . If you want defense dodge and mobility or perhaps even Endurance and Die hard .

If you had no fancy wtf uber weapon . I probably would have said . Exotic weapon Dwarven Axe and mix that with Tower shield feat. That would be an excellent basic damage and defense upgrade and used 100 percent .

Why can your Orc Barbarian not hit anything ? Your average enraged barbarian hits almost everything all the time .
Do you play with your rage ? Does your fancy weapon give penalties ?

[Akyron]

Assuming you are allowed to respec your orc .

I dont like your two feats . There are better options.

You already have an awesome weapon , you dont need a spike chain . I am very intrigued which book has a vardach wielding orc in it ?

Your combat expertise feat is is very situational . I would rate cleave as higher chance of being used .

In theory being offensive is more satisfying and fills the stereotype Orc role .

Given your limited book choices , if you want offense replace your feats with power attack and cleave . If you want defense dodge and mobility or perhaps even Endurance and Die hard .

If you had no fancy wtf uber weapon . I probably would have said . Exotic weapon Dwarven Axe and mix that with Tower shield feat. That would be an excellent basic damage and defense upgrade and used 100 percent .

Why can your Orc Barbarian not hit anything ? Your average enraged barbarian hits almost everything all the time .
Do you play with your rage ? Does your fancy weapon give penalties ?


I am just a bad roller. I went a session with about 13 rolls none above a 6. Midnight players handbook orc grants the vardatch. Combine that with the giant blood heroic path lets one use oversized weapons in one or both hands. That bad part is getting less feats starting out than a human. The DM actually gave me the oversized weapons when we rescued a city of dwarves from an invasion. The oversized adds another weapon die and with an enlarge the die increases to d10 so thats pretty cool. I was using a regular spiked chain for the reach. I would rage every time but then I cant flee when we get overrun. It happens three out of four sessions. Midnight reminds me of Ravenloft. There is no hope and the struggle is pointless. Always outnumbered and always outgunned. The entire campaign is based on trying to turn that around. This weekend a 3rd level party of five was hunted down by 130+ 3rd level orcs. We survived with judicious use of entangle and talking some sarcosan nomads into a guerilla attack.

We ended up fleeing anyway. I needed to be a bit smarter than an enraged orc to survive. I think I have used it twice. I want the power attack and cleave. I just havent been able to get that many feats yet.

I am sure that urda dwarf axe is an exotic weapon feat for me anyway. A nice axe like that showed up awhile back and the DM told me i could not use it without the extra exotic weapon feat.

With the giant blood I can use both the vadatch and the spiked chain at once but my to hit REALLY goes down. The damage is pretty good though when I can hit. I have judged I hit better using one and a shield or one two handed for the extra damage. Can I even use uncanny dodge with heavy armor?

[Pugwampy]

I would rage every time but then I cant flee when we get overrun.

Is this DM ruling ? As far as I know , You can flee while enraged . Frenzy is the condition that makes you fight till you drop .



I am sure that urda dwarf axe is an exotic weapon feat for me anyway. A nice axe like that showed up awhile back and the DM told me i could not use it without the extra exotic weapon feat.

If that was a one handed weapon you can use it for free if you use both hands .

[Akyron]

Is this DM ruling ? As far as I know , You can flee while enraged . Frenzy is the condition that makes you fight till you drop .




If that was a one handed weapon you can use it for free if you use both hands .

I reread the rage thing and it may be a DM ruling. I will keep it in my pocket and rules lawyer diplomatically if it comes up again.


Where is that rule about the free use or a non proficient weapon two handed? That would save a million people a million feats.

Thank you for your input.

[Pugwampy]

Where is that rule about the free use or a non proficient weapon two handed? That would save a million people a million feats.

NOOOOO . The magic words are ...... Non proficient exotic one hand weapon in two hands . :smallbiggrin:


PHB 3.5 .Check the weapons section and go to bastard sword or dwarven waraxe . It says these weapons are too large for anyone to use in one hand without special training < exotic weapon feat> .A medium character can use these in two hands as a martial weapon .

Its not that great .
First you must know martial weapons and it must be a one hand exotic weapon
Second its kinda pointless since you can get better numbers from greatsword or greataxe . That leaves out two handed exotic weapons . I also highly doubt you could a throw shuriken using two hands.

This is only a sweet idea if you found a nice enchanted exotic weapon


My Orc barbarian played with a +3 cold iron Warmace and later on a +8 katana of golem and earth elemental slaying . My DM was rather shocked that i could do that for free if I used both hands

Soo back to you whats the skinny on that exotic weapon you found ?

[Akyron]

Soo back to you whats the skinny on that exotic weapon you found ?

It was some kind of dwarven mithril axe. The snow elve in the party traded it to some dwarves who went ape over it. Its gone now.

[BobsYourUncle!]

what are you considering core books? I mean I figure PH1 DM and MM but are you including Completes? and PH2?

There is always the option of a two handed reach weapon, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, :)

The D12 HP die if rolled well of course should help you survive a bit and the casters in your party could help by buffing your AC :) and maybe a true strike from time to time to let you swing hard with power attack. :)

If completes are available then Monkey Grip that big pole arm of yours and have lots of fun!

[Akyron]

what are you considering core books? I mean I figure PH1 DM and MM but are you including Completes? and PH2?

There is always the option of a two handed reach weapon, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, :)

The D12 HP die if rolled well of course should help you survive a bit and the casters in your party could help by buffing your AC :) and maybe a true strike from time to time to let you swing hard with power attack. :)

If completes are available then Monkey Grip that big pole arm of yours and have lots of fun!


Midnight books allowed. Players handbook for 3.5 players for fighter and barbarian.


I have a different problem now. Torque the orc is dead.
Surrounded by the fell undead and many more coming I sacrificed him so the rest of the party could escape after we stupidly entered a deserted village that was actually full of fell undead.

It was a valiant death where one stood against many so I have no regrets save I was not knowledgeable enough to do Torque justice and make him a better character capable of surviving.

The fact that I am a terrible d20 roller did not help.
At least 60% were 3 or less on a d20.

So anyway now I need to start over.

I need a new starter character for midnight probably around 4th level.


The party is full of channelers.

I was thinking one of those

Steelborn dorn fighters since there are no other melee classes.

I do know I need a crapload of feats to survive. Torque just had str and 2 feats. Not nearly enough.

Armor class seems very important.

Ugh I hate starting over.

In a side note the DM offered me an infiltration character.
It seems super easy to destroy the party so I am not sure why to even bother.

It feels like a trap to let him off the hook for killing everyone.
I would get the blame for it.
Why even play if he is tired of dming? I feel he is getting tired of the DM work. On several occasions he said he doesn't think we are going to make it very far.

I'm tempted to say yes and make everyone start over but actually doing that would be mean spirited.

So if anyone can come up with a cool optimized survivable build in 3.5 Using midnight I would say Thanks!

I think you are right about the power attack cleave great cleave thing. I need to figure out how to get armor class.

We have never seen any better armor than chain mail.

I did find a feat list.

http://www.sylvos.com/gaming/midnight/midnight_feats.htm

[Akyron]

Well, I think the biggest problem might be building a Barbarian as a tripper, because you have your vardatch for damage and your Spiked Chain for tripping, that's all well and good, but it's two feats already, and we pile on Combat Expertise(going for Improved Trip I assume?), and unfortunately, you can't use Combat Expertise while raging, meaning that it has a lot less use than it might for a fighter.

Without some feat retooling I don't think it will be very easy to retool him mechanically, however we do have a bright side.

Without knowing your character well, It's possible he's a bit conflicted, raised barbarically and thus that is how he is accustomed, but instead he prefers to try to fight smarter and doesn't like his Rage ability? The nice thing about Combat Expertise is you can use it when you aren't raging.

What would be a good tripper as a fighter or rogue?

[Eldariel]

What would be a good tripper as a fighter or rogue?

Barbarian is fine. You get Improved Trip for free from Wolf Totem anyways saving you both the 13 Int requirement and two feats. Barbarian gets inherent strength bonuses which is incredible for a tripper since it's a pure Strength-check. No other martial matches Barbarian in that task.

[Akyron]

Barbarian is fine. You get Improved Trip for free from Wolf Totem anyways saving you both the 13 Int requirement and two feats. Barbarian gets inherent strength bonuses which is incredible for a tripper since it's a pure Strength-check. No other martial matches Barbarian in that task.

Well heck. I am still limited to the 3.5 players handbook and midnight players handbook. I did not see any totems in there.

http://choisey.free.fr/3.5/Core/Indexed%20Player%20Handbook%20v3.5.pdf

http://www.sylvos.com/gaming/midnight/midnight_feats.htm

4th level seems like alot to work with as a Steelblooded human dorn fighter.

With no metals armors available in game yet , I am still digging around with defensive feats. it may be better to go mostly defensive.

This is what im looking at for the moment.
I was thinking one more level of barbarian for the uncanny dodge then defender as far as i can go.

I think I can do better with more study..

Sun Cho
Male Dorn; Medium Humanoid ( Human )
Fighter2 Barbarian1 Defender1
Hit Dice:
(2d10)+(1d12)+(1d8)
Hit Points:
28
Initiative:
+3
Speed:
Walk 40 ft.
AC: 14 (touch 14, flatfooted 11)

Face / Reach: 5 ft. / 5 ft.
Special Attacks: Rage
Special Qualities:
Fast Movement, Rage, Weapon and Armor Proficiency, Weapon and Armor Proficiency, Bonus Feats, Weapon and Armor Proficiency, Favored Region ~ Northlands, Offensive Tactics, Skilled Warrior ~ Fighting defensively, Strategic Blow, Humanoid Traits, +1 racial bonus on attack rolls when fighting in groups of five or more Dorns, +1 racial bonus on attack rolls when using a melee weapon two-handed, +1 racial bonus on Fortitude saving throws, 1 extra feat at 1st level
Saves:
Fortitude: +6, Reflex: +5, Will: +0
Abilities:
STR*17*(+3), DEX*16*(+3), CON*10*(+0), INT*13*(+1), WIS*10*(+0), CHA*9*(-1)
Skills:

Feats:
Cleave, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Eschew Materials, Improved Unarmed Strike, Mobility, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike)
Challenge Rating:
4
Alignment:
Neutral Good
Region: Eredane

[Akyron]

Well he opened up pathfinder feats so now I am just confused.

So now I have to pick feats from pathfinder, midnight, and core.

I was too slow and they threw a 4 erenlander barbarian at me tonight.

They took damage resistance feats with ironborn like 4 times and added power attack.

I don't even think it stacks.

This is messed up.

What feats should I take with that layout?

They gave me some kind of frenzy archetype.

He said I can change it around.