I would like to hear your thoughts on my situation

[EightBitEngine]

I have been playing table top rpgs most my life, At lest 13 years but lately I haven't wanted to play so I haven't played in a long time.

However recently my older brother asked if I would play in a PATHFINDER game he was starting and I agreed. He needed one more player and hes my bro so I did it for him.
Now my favorite class is and has been for a long time WIZARD.
Now keep in mind the story my brother wrote was mostly contained to one very large independent city and was kind of a medieval crime drama.

So when all the players meet to make characters I said that I would like to play a wizard, however another player (My brothers best friend and likely the most annoying, stubborn and dumb person in the world) said he was really hoping to play a witch doctor and he didn't want to have to compete with another spell caster.
Not wanting to double down on the magic and leave the party with no face man I instead made a rogue that focused on charisma/Intelligence, stealth, bluff, diplomacy, disguise, escape artist, knowledge local, sense motive.
I remember using the exact words "Well I don't want to steal any of the chances you might have to shine so I'll be a rogue instead. I'll be the information and face man." and he AGREED

My plan was to be the guy who knew the city, could get information and could get into any place (I even picked a small race so I could stealth better.)
Also I had written a story for my character where the villain had killed a friend of mine and the guards wouldn't help so I decided to become a detective and do it myself.

Last I had heard this other guy was going to be a witch doctor... so imagine my surprise when I get to the table on day one of the game and after the dm asks us to introduce our characters he says this. "My character is an information broker for a living. He buys and sells information so if we need to know anything then I can figure it out for us with a simple Profession role and a few days." That is when he turns to me and with a big cartoonishly over sized smile looks me right in the eyes and says "Hay.... whats your stealth bonus? Also I have a spell that gives me plus 20"

So this guy intentionally did this to piss me off right? Like am I crazy? Because it feels like he made his character with the express intent to try and make mine useless immediately after I agreed not to be a spell caster because he said he don't want to have to compete with me.

[inuyasha]

That sounds like a pretty crappy situation, especially considering you completely changed your original idea to let him do what he wanted, a nice gesture. A Wizard and a party-face-Rogue are very very different things.

What does your DM have to say on the matter?

[EightBitEngine]

My brother is the dm and unfortunately this guy is his best friend and owns the house they both live in so you have to understand my brother can't really be confrontational with him.
When I told my brother why this upset me all I got was a "sorry man." and a shrug.

This is the kind of guy who all ways feels righteously entitled so there is no way I can ask him to change his character. The only solution I can see is to just make a completely different character who does a different role, which I'm not so proud and stubborn that I cant do that.... but man I really liked my character a lot and coming up with another one I'll like just as much is gonna be hard.

[Karl Aegis]

I feel like asking this person directly would be more helpful to your situation than asking a bunch of random strangers who weren't there what happened.

[Krazzman]

This sounds like a situation you could have avoided with playing a face/information retrieval caster instead of glorified expert. (Sorry if this sounds hostile but Rogue is not a class I would recommend anyone rolling for any situation... like at all in Pathfinder).

Since he said Witch Doctor which at least in my mind equals the dude from Kiss the Frog (Dr. Falicier?) or something similar with a magic casting deal broker... I assume less douchebaggery than normal but would say that you are justified in your position since you EXPLICITLY called out what you wanted your role to be.

I would probably ask my brother: "Hmm want an NPC while I roll something useful to the party?".
Then just roll an easy-bake wizard (if I could play casters[I am rubbish at them]) or would just roll another class that would be needed.

He might not be doing it on purpose but could just be a massive ****... maybe this will lead to ingame problems... keep at least one eye on him.

[Piranha424]

Personally it sounds like a game you don't want to be in. in the end it's a GAME and games are about FUN so if you have someone in the party who is making the game not fun and it's not something you can talk to him about and maybe change his mind on (which from your description it does not appear so) I personally just wouldn't play. He sounds like a a standard griefer who is going to make the whole game a pain for everyone.
If you really want to keep playing, roll up a wizard real fast and move on, 1st level characters aren't terribly difficult to build. It's stupid that he did it that way but if you can play the class you wanted to in the first place and the game doesn't end up sucking win-win.

[Honest Tiefling]

I've been in this position before, in that a player was being very uncooperative. I think some people just think of it as a friendly form of teasing? Others are just way more competitive with their games, especially newer players. Sometimes they cool down, sometimes they find a party where that works better.

I would personally just bow out of the game. It sounds like it would put your brother into a bind to choose between you and his best friend. Unless you think you can discuss this reasonably with the other player, I would just not put him into that position.

Also, solving entire issues with a profession roll? That's not even allowed (I think), so he sounds like a cheater. Bail.

[Grod_The_Giant]

That's... pretty not good, yeah. It's possible that he'd already been thinking of being an information broker and, just... didn't tell you, but the taunt about stealth is just... a bad sign all around. Given that you already don't like the guy, bowing out is not at all a bad plan. If you do decided to stay and give it a try, I think switching characters isn't a bad idea; you can probably keep the personality and marry it to a different mechanical class. Alchemists (especially Vivisectionists), Investigators, and Inquisitors all make fantastic magic-augmented roguish types, with varying degrees of socialite potential via Archtypes and Traits...

[EightBitEngine]

I know the man very well and to Karl Aegis yes I did ask him directly. After he introduced his character I looked at him and asked this "Did you make your character like that knowing that's exactly what I wanted my character to do?" He just waved his hand and said "Whats wrong with a little healthy competition." and dropped the conversation there.

I'm not asking for advice about my relationship with this man or what to think about it. I'm not looking for a shrink here.

I was hoping for advice on what to do about my the game it's self. Should I drop out or just make another character or some possible third option I had not considered.

Also that's a good idea just playing a basic wizard instead but he might take that as me being aggressive about the whole situation. So perhaps if I take Grod's Idea of being an Alchemist that would be a more neutral change then just going back to wizard and he wont think anything of it.

I think that is what I'll do. Thanks for the help guys.

[Dagroth]

It's a bit of work, but change to a Dex/Int focus. Become the burglar who gathers his own information. You're now Chaotic Good. The villain who killed your friend is "part of the problem". The city guards are "part of the problem". The Law is corrupt because Power corrupts.

And don't leave out UMD. The Witchdoctor has a spell that gives him +20 "stealth"? Well, in a few levels you'll have a Wand that does the exact same thing... and you'll have more ranks in the skill and a higher Dex too.

[EightBitEngine]

Changing my focus from charisma to dex could also help. I'll talk to him and see what his skill and attribute focuses are and I'll shape a rogue around what ever the opposite is. That way there will be zero competition. Whether he likes it or not.

[Blu]

"Whats wrong with a little healthy competition."

Jerk alert... pretty red one.
I would recommend two options:
A) Passive: Leave the table, that is a pretty bad alarm that the player is not up to good stuff. He may try to constantly make is character shine or outwright be a nuisance to you or the party. It is hypocritical that he made you gave up on wizard because of competition but makes a character to compete with you.

B) Agressive[Warning: May contain discussions]: Change back to wizard and show him who's the boss. This may injure his relationship with your brother.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I know the man very well and to Karl Aegis yes I did ask him directly. After he introduced his character I looked at him and asked this "Did you make your character like that knowing that's exactly what I wanted my character to do?" He just waved his hand and said "Whats wrong with a little healthy competition." and dropped the conversation there.
This the same guy who didn't want to compete with another spellcaster?

Abort. Just... abort. This isn't going to end well no matter what you do.

[Aetis]

Simply walk away.

[thoroughlyS]

I have a few different suggestions about this scenario:

Let's start with the most obvious one. You mentioned not playing a tabletop game in a while, and only joining because your brother asked you to. You also seem to have some familiarity with this person, based on how much you've said and how you describe them. If you think that this kind of problem is going to happen again, drop the game and tell your brother why.

If you want to keep playing, I have to go against the consensus here. Don't change your character. You shouldn't let this other person's actions change the decisions you've made about the character you're going to play. So what if he has "a spell that gives [him] plus 20" stealth? He has to use his limited resources to cast that; by the time he has a wand of it, you do too. I don't think you should compete with him, but honestly it seems like he's going to try regardless. Don't play his game, just play your character. As your character evolves, you can find ways to carve your own niche.

If you want to change your character, don't give him anything that can seem like validations of his actions. Either go with your original character concept, because you wanted to play it, or find a new concept to work with. Don't build a character that matches his, because he can take that as a challenge, and that can cause inter-party strife.

Bottom line, don't do something you don't want to because of his actions - do something because you choose to.

[Pleh]

This the same guy who didn't want to compete with another spellcaster?

Abort. Just... abort. This isn't going to end well no matter what you do.

Very much this. He isn't playing the game, he's playing you.

You said your brother isn't in a position to defend you, so this guy must know the position he is putting you in.

Drop him like a bag of moldy spider nests.

You were doing the group a favor by adding another player. They don't get to use you as a doormat when you were trying to do something nice for them.

[icefractal]

I would agree - drop that ****. It sounds like this guy is a jackass, and will probably continue to behave in an aggravating way even if you switch characters.

However, if you did want to stay, switch to Wizard. If he starts complaining about two arcane casters, just turn to him and say "What's wrong with a little healthy competition"? :smallamused:

[Deophaun]

I would say "Congratulations. You won a D&D." Then leave. There's zero point gaming with this guy; even if you get past this incident, there are just going to be more and further escalations down the pipe.

[Blu]

I would agree - drop that ****. It sounds like this guy is a jackass, and will probably continue to behave in an aggravating way even if you switch characters.

However, if you did want to stay, switch to Wizard. If he starts complaining about two arcane casters, just turn to him and say "What's wrong with a little healthy competition"? :smallamused:

Toxic players don't follow logic. Unless he wants trouble, he should leave

[Kelb_Panthera]

Toxic, entitled player that can't be kicked? Walk. There's nothing to do here but walk away and tell your brother, "I'll see you at the next family thing."

[Darrin]

He just waved his hand and said "Whats wrong with a little healthy competition." and dropped the conversation there.


Sounds like he's a First Class A-Hole. In my experience, they get most of their success just through bluster and empty threats, but when the chips are down they have very little system mastery to back it up. As in, he may think he's a stupendous information broker because he's got a bunch of Profession ranks or a spell that gives him +20, but he will be nearly incompetent at actually doing any decent information-brokering outside of what the DM just gives to him to move the plot along.

Best advice if you're going to stay in the game is to play something non-confrontational and make sure your character is self-sufficient enough to survive when the A-Hole bites off more than he can chew...

...up until the d-bag said something about "healthy competition", at which point I would design a Face Rogue with max ranks in Bluff/Diplomacy/Linguistics/etc. and create an entire underground criminal organization to make this bozo look like a world-class poopwaffle. I would pay off his primary contacts to give him false information, set up some fences to trade him unreliable scrolls, and start forging a pile of documents that all point back to him, so that when the fit finally hits the shan, the only way to straighten things out is for him to take a permanent dirt nap.

It would all end badly, and nobody would learn anything, but you might fool yourself for a bit that you're teaching him a valuable lesson (you aren't, and he won't learn anything).

[EightBitEngine]

Sounds like he's a First Class A-Hole. In my experience, they get most of their success just through bluster and empty threats, but when the chips are down they have very little system mastery to back it up. As in, he may think he's a stupendous information broker because he's got a bunch of Profession ranks or a spell that gives him +20, but he will be nearly incompetent at actually doing any decent information-brokering outside of what the DM just gives to him to move the plot along.

Best advice if you're going to stay in the game is to play something non-confrontational and make sure your character is self-sufficient enough to survive when the A-Hole bites off more than he can chew...

...up until the d-bag said something about "healthy competition", at which point I would design a Face Rogue with max ranks in Bluff/Diplomacy/Linguistics/etc. and create an entire underground criminal organization to make this bozo look like a world-class poopwaffle. I would pay off his primary contacts to give him false information, set up some fences to trade him unreliable scrolls, and start forging a pile of documents that all point back to him, so that when the fit finally hits the shan, the only way to straighten things out is for him to take a permanent dirt nap.

It would all end badly, and nobody would learn anything, but you might fool yourself for a bit that you're teaching him a valuable lesson (you aren't, and he won't learn anything).


You sir are my new hero.... I WON"T be doing this though

Just know that if I could... this is exactly what I would do.

[EightBitEngine]

Toxic, entitled player that can't be kicked? Walk. There's nothing to do here but walk away and tell your brother, "I'll see you at the next family thing."


Toxic players don't follow logic. Unless he wants trouble, he should leave


I would say "Congratulations. You won a D&D." Then leave. There's zero point gaming with this guy; even if you get past this incident, there are just going to be more and further escalations down the pipe.


I won't be walking ether. I agree that he won't change and that there will be more issues down the line but I'm doing this to help out my brother so I won't walk. I think I'll just make the most self-sufficient non confrontational character I can and just sorta glide through this disaster.

[Pleh]

I won't be walking ether. I agree that he won't change and that there will be more issues down the line but I'm doing this to help out my brother so I won't walk. I think I'll just make the most self-sufficient non confrontational character I can and just sorta glide through this disaster.

In this case, your brother is the dm. Work very closely with him. Roleplaying >> rollplaying. If you are in this to help your brother run his game, keep your character focused on doing everything possible to help keep the party on the dm's rails. Really work to support his story. Best way to deny the toxic player his little game is to change the game. If he wants to see which character is better, focus on helping craft a solid story. It puts his shenanigans out of context and reminds the group the point of the game.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I won't be walking ether. I agree that he won't change and that there will be more issues down the line but I'm doing this to help out my brother so I won't walk. I think I'll just make the most self-sufficient non confrontational character I can and just sorta glide through this disaster.

Then just remember that you've resolved yourself to a -bad- game.

That said; multiclass into wizard, then into arcane trickster (or the like), then proceed to do it just plain better than him. When he whines (and he will) throw that "healthy competition" line back in his face.

This -will- end in a social explosion. There's no way around that with players like this. ...unless it dies with a whimper when your brother gets sick of his crap and just quits DM'ing. Either way, this is gonna -suuuuuck- :smallsigh:

[JNAProductions]

Talk to him OOC.

Assuming you portrayed him accurately, this will accomplish nothing. In which case... Don't game.

[Blu]

I won't be walking ether. I agree that he won't change and that there will be more issues down the line but I'm doing this to help out my brother so I won't walk. I think I'll just make the most self-sufficient non confrontational character I can and just sorta glide through this disaster.

Good idea. I would recomend some sort of divine gish or simply cleric for being good at combat, able to heal and not competing with him. Besides skills you would be pretty self sufficient and can support for the party, helping them without outshining anyone.
The arcane trickster idea also sounds good.

[Honest Tiefling]

I won't be walking ether. I agree that he won't change and that there will be more issues down the line but I'm doing this to help out my brother so I won't walk. I think I'll just make the most self-sufficient non confrontational character I can and just sorta glide through this disaster.

So...Is weed legal in your state? If not, get booze.

It's a joke. Well, partially. If you know it's a bad game going in, but you're doing it...For some reason, find a way to not be attached to it. Be silly, and find entertainment where you can. Don't antagonize the other players, but this might be the time to roll up with a crazy alchemist and just let the dice fall where they may. That's the ONLY way I can see this going...Not so badly.

[Deophaun]

That said; multiclass into wizard, then into arcane trickster (or the like), then proceed to do it just plain better than him.
Grab magic mouth while you're at it. Enchant his gear to shout "over here!" whenever he's sneaking and comes within 30' of another creature.

Yeah, what's your Stealth modifier now?

[P.F.]

I am concerned that when you say "helping your brother" you mean "enabling your brother's control freak combination roommate/landlord."

I would explain to my brother that I don't see this ending well and politely excuse myself.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I won't be walking ether. I agree that he won't change and that there will be more issues down the line but I'm doing this to help out my brother so I won't walk. I think I'll just make the most self-sufficient non confrontational character I can and just sorta glide through this disaster.
How 'bout a Heretic Infiltrator with the Reformation Inquisition?
You get 6+Int skill points/level and Wisdom as a bonus/base stat for Bluff, Stealth, Diplomacy, and Intimidate. Given that it's also the stat for Perception and Insight, that lets you be a pretty strong scout/face.
You get pretty good weapon and armor proficiencies, a sort of fine-tunable-Rage, Bane weapons on command, and generally decent face-beating prowess.
You get up to 6th level spells off a pretty solid list. No need to go to anyone else for healing, buffs, or anything else.
You get teamwork feats that you can activate without needing anyone else. Go self sufficiency!
Plus, high Wisdom fits well with that sort of "quiet, competent one" roleplaying.

[Epic Legand]

I think your response should be based on what your goal is.
1) Main goal is "Get your toes wet with paying again", even at the cost of gaming with dusch bag
- Play a wizard like you wanted to in the first place, play for a while then leave if its not fun. He lost all rights to an opinion when he asked you to skip being a caster, then made a character designed to overshadow yours. Don't worry about game balance with him, that's not your job. Not a long term solution.

2) Main goal is not to **** up your brothers situation: Bow out quickly
-Continue the hunt for a game, go to local gaming stores, post some flyers there. Search the boards. Hope to find a good game, and have zero chances for making your brother homeless.

3) Show the **** who's better:
- Zero ways this results in a win. You make better character, or just play better...he becomes a bigger ****, and can't be punished or taught to change. Or play his patsy, and always be overshadowed, who wants that ? All outcome are not fun in the long run. Some result in worse situation for your bro.

[EightBitEngine]

Grab magic mouth while you're at it. Enchant his gear to shout "over here!" whenever he's sneaking and comes within 30' of another creature.

Yeah, what's your Stealth modifier now?

Hahah yeah this is awesome... but still no. I don't want to be directly disruptive.

[EightBitEngine]

In this case, your brother is the dm. Work very closely with him. Roleplaying >> rollplaying. If you are in this to help your brother run his game, keep your character focused on doing everything possible to help keep the party on the dm's rails. Really work to support his story. Best way to deny the toxic player his little game is to change the game. If he wants to see which character is better, focus on helping craft a solid story. It puts his shenanigans out of context and reminds the group the point of the game.

This is exactly the solution I need. Thank you for this it's perfect.

[One Step Two]

I am concerned that when you say "helping your brother" you mean "enabling your brother's control freak combination roommate/landlord."

I would explain to my brother that I don't see this ending well and politely excuse myself.

Double what this guy says. I've gamed with people like this before, and it never ends well. Feelings will be hurt, yours, theirs or your brothers, someones regardless of your intentions.

He's your brother's friend, not yours, explain the issue to your brother, apologise, then walk, it will be far less frustrating in the long run.

[thoroughlyS]

In this case, your brother is the dm. Work very closely with him. Roleplaying >> rollplaying. If you are in this to help your brother run his game, keep your character focused on doing everything possible to help keep the party on the dm's rails. Really work to support his story. Best way to deny the toxic player his little game is to change the game. If he wants to see which character is better, focus on helping craft a solid story. It puts his shenanigans out of context and reminds the group the point of the game.I'd like to second this as hard as possible. If you're doing this for your brother anyway, it might as well be with him too. Just have your character be super interested in the main story.

[EightBitEngine]

I'd like to second this as hard as possible. If you're doing this for your brother anyway, it might as well be with him too. Just have your character be super interested in the main story.

Yep this is exactly what I plan to do.

[Stryyke]

There is one tried-and-true way to deal with this kind of situation; keep your character, and find a way to fit your character and his together seamlessly. Aggressively confrontational people don't respond well to perceived attacks. You can actually help him grow, as a person; make the game really fun; and give the campaign itself character all in one fell swoop. Find a way to turn competition into cooperation.

If you aren't opposed to taking a secondary role, just pull the guy aside and ask him how you two can work your information gathering, in tandem. You could offer to be his "apprentice." He could be the magic man, while you are the one that gets your hands dirty. Maybe you are the face, while he compiles information. There are any number of ways for 2 information brokers to work together toward a common goal.

Heck, if you really want to, give him the competition he's yearning for. The two of you could be in a perpetual state of competition about which could be the more helpful to the group. Rolling dice isn't going to give him ideas about what to ask in the first place, right. So you could be the subtle, deep thinker; while he is the blunt object. Just be careful not to get to the point where either of you is significantly better than the other. That will lead to collapse.

Aggressively confrontational people expect one of two things: A) you will bow out, and they will think of you as weak (regardless of whether you are or not), or B) you to stay and get trampled by them. Feeding either of these preconceived notions will not end well for anyone in the group. If you can find a way to keep your character, and make it work with this guy, not only will you and he be happier, your brother will appreciate the effort.

[Pleh]

If you aren't opposed to taking a secondary role, just pull the guy aside and ask him how you two can work your information gathering, in tandem. You could offer to be his "apprentice." He could be the magic man, while you are the one that gets your hands dirty. Maybe you are the face, while he compiles information. There are any number of ways for 2 information brokers to work together toward a common goal.

Heck, if you really want to, give him the competition he's yearning for. The two of you could be in a perpetual state of competition about which could be the more helpful to the group. Rolling dice isn't going to give him ideas about what to ask in the first place, right. So you could be the subtle, deep thinker; while he is the blunt object. Just be careful not to get to the point where either of you is significantly better than the other. That will lead to collapse.

Aggressively confrontational people expect one of two things: A) you will bow out, and they will think of you as weak (regardless of whether you are or not), or B) you to stay and get trampled by them. Feeding either of these preconceived notions will not end well for anyone in the group. If you can find a way to keep your character, and make it work with this guy, not only will you and he be happier, your brother will appreciate the effort.

I disagree. Becoming this guy's "sidekick" would be the weakest thing you can do. Might as well tape the "kick me" sign to your own back. This guy clearly has no intention of deriving pleasure from cooperative play, so offering to be his whipping boy is the worst idea I can think of.

Giving him the competition he's asking for is a dead end. That only leads to either him winning, making you the whipping boy, or you winning and him turning your brother into the whipping boy in real life.

The reason bowing out is a good plan is that it won't matter that he thinks you're weak, he won't be able to use it as an excuse to abuse people. It defuses the situation.

That's why I turned to recommending that he focus on cooperating with his brother (who has dm authority) to try to supplement a toxic group with some healthy gamer behavior.

Lead by example.

[weckar]

Yep this is exactly what I plan to do.Do avoid the risk of becoming the 'main character'. DM's girlfriend syndrome applies to relatives too, is my experience.

[Rhyltran]

I know the man very well and to Karl Aegis yes I did ask him directly. After he introduced his character I looked at him and asked this "Did you make your character like that knowing that's exactly what I wanted my character to do?" He just waved his hand and said "Whats wrong with a little healthy competition." and dropped the conversation there.

I'm not asking for advice about my relationship with this man or what to think about it. I'm not looking for a shrink here.

I was hoping for advice on what to do about my the game it's self. Should I drop out or just make another character or some possible third option I had not considered.

Also that's a good idea just playing a basic wizard instead but he might take that as me being aggressive about the whole situation. So perhaps if I take Grod's Idea of being an Alchemist that would be a more neutral change then just going back to wizard and he wont think anything of it.

I think that is what I'll do. Thanks for the help guys.

Here's what you do. As others suggested you bail out. Your brother really needs someone to fill the gap? He might go to you and ask why you left. You explain the situation if he still wants you to play tell him you'll only play if you get to be a Wizard. If your brother brings up that the guy doesn't want to compete with another spellcaster you can bring up that he undermined your rogue and waived it off as "What's wrong with healthy competition?" If he doesn't mind competition then he won't mind if you're a wizard.

Also don't be a jerk about the above. Just use it to get the character you want. Don't try to step on his toes as the Wizard just play your character the way you want to play him.

[Blu]

I think the point is that his fun is already compromised. The moment that there is a toxic player on the tabble that already specifically targeted him is a warning that dude may be trying to ruin your fun or the group's fun. That is why bailing out is easier and more safe.

If you still play on the table you will be either "forced" to play in order to help your brother or trying to have fun with a dude harassing, besides the obvious agressive routes that sound even worse.
Might add that you aren't the guy's parents to try to teach him positive stuff and neither should you go out of your way to do that.

[Pleh]

I think the point is that his fun is already compromised. The moment that there is a toxic player on the tabble that already specifically targeted him is a warning that dude may be trying to ruin your fun or the group's fun. That is why bailing out is easier and more safe.

If you still play on the table you will be either "forced" to play in order to help your brother or trying to have fun with a dude harassing, besides the obvious agressive routes that sound even worse.
Might add that you aren't the guy's parents to try to teach him positive stuff and neither should you go out of your way to do that.

I think we've come across a slightly rare case where fun is no longer the primary goal. Neither are we trying to fix a toxic player. Now we're trying to help the DM getting through his game with a toxic player.

What game options do we have for becoming the DM's MVP?

[Blu]

I think we've come across a slightly rare case where fun is no longer the primary goal. Neither are we trying to fix a toxic player. Now we're trying to help the DM getting through his game with a toxic player.

What game options do we have for becoming the DM's MVP?

Wizard with all the goddamn chesse you could find :smallbiggrin:

[Dagroth]

Divination specialist. It's a city game, after all.

He wants information gathering? Nobody better than a Divination specialist.