Assassin Class

[Mourne]

Version 7.0 now available. I'm thinking, as far as the base class features go, this is probably (hopefully!) near the final product barring some minor balance tweaks. I'm kind of at the bottom of the creative well on any further base feature changes. Just a note... this is designed for my own campaign world (and, obviously reflects my preference/style). I tend to gravitate towards low-magic and a little more gritty feel. I prefer shades of grey and have, in fact, ditched the alignment system in favor of a custom "slider".

The included Guilds are mainly complete and have been revised to all share the same design framework. Hopefully each is true to its theme. I've still worries about balance... it's almost as hard to balance the archetypes against one another as it is to build the base class.

In addition, I'm working on adding three more guilds: One to fill a niche I think is missing (martial/weapon based) and two to indulge a couple of creative exercises (complete rework of the Arbiter's Guild and the Sparrows, a small race themed guild).

Homebrewery Link: Assassin, Book of Knives (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/rkwnXyxmg)

The art and fluff are still WIP.

Please don't be shy about voicing an opinion, even if it's only on a single feature. It would be a great relief to finally wrap this one up and move on to polishing the Gallant, Vagabond, Skinchanger, or (spell less) Bard. :smallsmile:



Version 6.0 now available (thanks MrStabby for your insights!). Please ignore the text wall version of the class and follow the link.

Homebrewery Link: Assassin, Book of Knives (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/rkwnXyxmg)

Lots of changes, so many that I didn't even try to capture on the version history. Not a complete overhaul, but definitely a major revision. The Homebrewery link includes the "Poison Lite" rules I was too lazy to type initially that help support a slightly expanded use of poisons.

Concerns that I have at the moment:


Opted to go with proficiency with the 3 "weak" saves... we'll see how it goes
I've only included the Guilds that are complete though I still feel the power curve is a notch too high



Please let me know what you think. I'll be adding the remaining (updated) Guilds in the next few days.

EDIT: If you're not familiar with the Homebrewery, it is optimized for Chrome (other browsers work but can go "sideways" occasionally). If you're having issues even with Chrome (e.g. some of the text is pushed off the screen), try adjusting your browser's zoom setting.



Everything below is now out of date.

I've been working on this Assassin class for a while now (part of the triumvirate of "stealth" classes for my custom campaign: Assassin, Rogue, and Vagabond). It has gone through some limited playtesting, more than a few nights of beer drin....err....group discussions, and a few rounds of asking for review on Reddit (where I seem to be able to get a lot of downvotes but very little feedback). I've yet to hit a state where I feel it's final enough to add in all the fluff text and artwork, though I think (fingers crossed) it's close.

Originally, the class chassis was loosely based on the Rogue, but (oddly) ended up resembling the Barbarian more. Currently, I've worries about how the Assassin will be able to sustain damage and perform defensively (d10 Hit Die and the Uncanny Intuition feature are both fairly recent). The saves are also problematic as, thematically, STR and INT make the most sense (to me) but they're both weak saves. I could arbitrarily just swap STR for DEX or CON but I didn't want to force this class down the DEX path (as of right now, it play surprisingly well as either a STR or DEX focused build as long as INT is not neglected).

Please let me know what you think. Thanks!

Homebrewery Link: homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/rkwnXyxmg

Ugh! Not allowed to link yet. Well, most of my work is on Homebrewery. Until such time as I meet the post requirements, I'll work with the forums preset formatting (so please excuse anything that doesn't look just right... first timer here). In the interest of saving my fingers, I'm not going to include the section on new poisons, some of the "asides", the version history, and credits at this time.





-----Level
-----Proficiency Bonus
-----Feature


-----1st
-----+2
-----Assassin’s Mark, Reflexive Insight


-----2nd
-----+2
-----Deadly Assailant, Uncanny Intuition


-----3rd
-----+2
-----Guild Affiliation, Guild Secret


-----4th
-----+2
-----Ability Score Improvement


-----5th
-----+3
-----Extra Attack


-----6th
-----+3
-----Guild Secret


-----7th
-----+3
-----Ambuscade, Trained Senses


-----8th
-----+3
-----Ability Score Improvement


-----9th
-----+4
-----Guild Secret


-----10th
-----+4
-----Anatomical Strike


-----11th
-----+4
-----Infiltrator


-----12th
-----+4
-----Ability Score Improvement


-----13th
-----+5
-----Guild Secret


-----14th
-----+5
-----Unreadable


-----15th
-----+5
-----Lethal Attacks


-----16th
-----+5
-----Ability Score Improvement


-----17th
-----+6
-----Guild Secret


-----18th
-----+6
-----Prescient Evasion


-----19th
-----+6
-----Ability Score Improvement


-----20th
-----+6
-----Death Mark




CLASS FEATURES
As an Assassin, you gain the follow class features.

HIT POINTS
Hit Dice: 1d10 per Assassin level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 10 + your Constitution modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d10 (or 6) + your Constitution modifier per Assassin level after 1st

PROFICIENCIES
Armor: Light armor
Weapons:Simple weapons, martial weapons
Tools:Disguise kit

Saving Throws:Strength, Intelligence
Skills:Choose two skills from Acrobatics, Athletics, Deception, Insight, Intimidation, Investigation, Perception, Performance, Persuasion, Sleight of Hand, and Persuasion

EQUIPMENT
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:

(a) long sword or (b) a rapier
(a) light crossbow and quiver with 20 bolts or (b) three daggers
(a) burglar's pack or (b) an entertainer's pack or (c) an explorer's pack
(a) Studded leather armor, a short sword, and a disguise kit

ASSASSIN’S MARK
You are a true master of death, able to identify a foe’s weak points and exploit them. As a bonus action, you may mark a single creature within 30 feet of you that you can see. When attacking a marked creature, you have the following benefits:

- You have advantage on Disarm, Grapple, Hide, Shove, and Tumble checks
- When you make a weapon attack, you gain a bonus to the damage roll equal to your proficiency bonus
- You are not subject to opportunity attacks from the marked target
- The marked target has disadvantage on any concentration checks due to damage you inflict

This effect lasts until the target has been killed, rendered unconscious, or you use a bonus action to mark a new target. You may only have a single marked target at any one time.

You may use this feature a number of times equal to 2 + your Intelligence modifier (minimum of two). You regain any expended uses when you complete a long rest.

A marked target reduced to 0 hit points suffers from disadvantage on death saving throws.

REFLEXIVE INSIGHT
While you are not wearing any armor, your Armor Class equals 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Intelligence modifier.

DEADLY ASSAILANT
Your training gives you a masterful degree of control with heavier weapons. At 2nd level, though more comfortable with finesse weapons, you are skilled with the use of the heavier and deadlier weaponry of the warrior. You treat any weapon with the versatile property as if it also had the finesse property as long as you are wielding the weapon with both hands.

In addition, you are particularly deadly when your foes are unaware or unprepared. You have advantage on attack rolls against any creature that is surprised, hasn’t taken a turn in combat yet, or that you are hidden from.

UNCANNY INTUITION
Beginning at 2nd level, you are able to innately predict the attacks and actions of your foes, seemingly benefitting from a sixth sense (and maybe a seventh and an eighth) that keeps you guarded in dangerous situations. Any time you do not have an ally within 10 feet, you may take the Dodge action as a bonus action on your turn.

You may use this feature a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus. You regain any expended uses when you complete a short or long rest.

GUILD AFFILIATION
At 3rd level, you join an Assassin’s guild, a collection of like-minded practitioners that help you advance your knowledge and skill. You may select one of the options listed in the Guild Affiliation section.

GUILD SECRET
Beginning at 3rd level, your guild passes on one of the secrets of their trade; a special feature or ability that augments your already formidable abilities. You gain additional guild secrets at 6th level, 9th level, 13th level, and again at 17th level.

ABILITY SCORE IMPROVEMENT
When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can’t increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.

EXTRA ATTACK
Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.

AMBUSCADE
Assassins are trained to strike first and strike hard. At 7th level, when you roll initiative, you gain a special turn that takes place before other creatures can act. On this turn, you can use choose to use your Assassin's Mark feature, take the Dash, Dodge, or Hide actions, or use an action to apply a poison to your weapon.

If more than one creature in an encounter has this feature, they all act first in order of initiative, then the regular initiative order begins.

If you would normally be surprised at the start of an encounter, you are not surprised but you do not gain this extra turn.

TRAINED SENSES
Starting at 8th level, due to your training in darkness and shadows, you do not suffer disadvantage on perception checks while in areas of dim light and, while in areas of darkness, you have blindsight to a range of 10 feet.

ANATOMICAL STRIKE
By 10th level, you have developed a studied knowledge of anatomy and physiology. You gain proficiency with the Wisdom (Medicine) skill and may add one half your Intelligence modifier to any checks.

Your insights into anatomy allow you to strike at your opponent’s vital areas; you add your Intelligence modifier to your weapon damage in addition to any Strength or Dexterity modifiers. Anytime you score a critical hit, you regain one expended use of Assassin’s Mark. You cannot exceed your maximum number of uses in this manner.

INFILTRATOR
At 11th level, you gain the ability to unerringly mimic another person’s appearance, speech, writing, and behavior. You must spend an hour studying these four components of the person’s behavior, listening to speech, examining handwriting, and observing mannerisms.

Your ruse is indiscernible to the casual observer. If a wary creature suspects something is amiss, you have advantage on any Charisma (Deception) check you make to avoid detection.

UNREADABLE
Beginning at 14th level, you are immune to any effect that would sense your emotions or read your thoughts without your permission.

LETHAL ATTACK
Starting at 16th level, you become a master of deadly and precise strikes. When you successfully hit a foe with a weapon attack while you have advantage on the attack roll, you can use a bonus action to attempt to drive your weapon towards a vital area. Your target must make a Constitution saving throw (DC 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier). On a failed save, you double the damage of your attack against the creature and it gains the *poisoned* condition until the end of its next turn.

You may use this feature a number of times equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of one). You regain any expended use upon completion of a short or long rest.

PRESCIENT EVASION
Beginning at 18th level, your sense of danger and innate understanding of your foes is so advanced you can completely evade attacks where you are the direct target. Once per short rest as a reaction, you can turn one successful attack against you into a miss. You do not have to be aware of this attack.

DEATH MARK
At 20th level, you are exceptionally deadly against foes you have marked for death. When you make an attack against a target you have marked with the Assassin's Mark feature, your attacks deal double the normal damage and a roll of 19 or 20 results in a critical hit. In addition, your attacks ignore any damage resistances a marked opponent may have and treat immunities as resistance.

Finally, you have learned how to leave a lingering poison or sliver lodged in a vital organ within your victims. Upon being returned from death (such as through a raise dead or resurrection spell), any creature that was killed while marked must make a Constitution saving throw (DC 15) or die again after 1 minute. On a successful save, the target immediately suffers 10d6 necrotic damage.





POISON CRAFTER
At 3rd level, you gain proficiency with the poisoner’s kit and can apply an injury poison to your weapon as a bonus action. You must have a poison on your person in order to use this feature.

You also have advantage on any Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) checks made to move or manipulate poisons as long as the item or container is no larger than your palm.

POISON ARTISAN
At 6th level, you add your proficiency bonus to the DC of any poison you use.

ALTERED METABOLISM
To you, poison is also a bringer of life and tastes like a sweet wine. At 9th level, you may consume poisons as though they were potions, healing you for points of damage equal to the damage normally dealt by the poison. For example, consuming a basic poison heals 1d4 hit points.

In addition, due to extended exposure to poisons, you have advantage on all saving throws to resist the effects of poisons.

CONCENTRATION EXPERTISE
Your knowledge of poisons allows you to modify even the most basic of poisons to be even more lethal. At 13th level, any time you successfully use a poison that inflicts damage, you add your Intelligence modifier to the rolled damage.

Additionally, if you have a poisoner’s kit, you can spend an 1 hour modifying a poison, changing the poison’s application type to a different application type of your choice. You must spend material costs in an amount of gold equal to 50% of the poison cost to make this alteration and succeed on a DC 15 poisoner’s kit (Intelligence) check. Failure results in loss of the material costs but the base poison is not destroyed.

PERSISTENT VENOM
By 17th level, your weapons are perpetually saturated with the remnants of one type of poison or another. As long as you are the wielder of the weapon, every attack where you do not apply another poison is treated as if a basic poison was applied.

In addition, any weapon that you apply a poison to is also treated as magical for purposes of overcoming damage resistance and immunity for as long as the poison lasts.





SAGACIOUS REVELATION
At 3rd level, you may use your Wisdom modifier or Intelligence modifier with the Reflexive Insight feature, whichever is higher.

In addition, you use your Wisdom modifier for the extra damage portion of Anatomical Strike and the number of uses for Lethal Attack.

UNERRING DIRECTION
At 6th level, you gain the Wisdom (Survival) skill and have advantage on tracking. If you are tracking a creature that is fleeing judgment or that you have an Assassin’s Mark applied to, you apply double your proficiency bonus to tracking checks.

TRUTH SPEAKER
At 9th level, you are able to determine truth from lie. This ability functions as per the spell *zone of truth* using your Wisdom ability as the casting ability and Assassin level as the caster level. You may use this ability once per short rest.

JUSTIFIED PURPOSE
At 13th level, you are single-minded in your pursuit of justice. You have advantage on Wisdom (Insight) checks as well as saving throws to avoid the effects of mind-affecting enchantments or illusions.

FOCUSED JUDGMENT
At 17th level, you may pronounce judgment upon a single target as part of your Assassin’s Mark. The effects of the judgment are in addition to those of the Assassin’s Mark feature.

- You have resistance to all damage inflicted on you by the target
- Your attacks are considered magical for the purpose of overcoming damage resistance and immunity to non-magical attacks
- As part of your attack action, you may spend one of your available Hit Die to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon’s damage. The extra damage is 2d8.

While the judgement is in effect, any attacks you attempt on targets other than the marked target are at a disadvantage and any saving throws to resist a spell or ability you use on a target other than the marked target are made with advantage.

You may use this feature once before requiring a long rest.





SHADOW DENIZEN
At 3rd level, you have spent much time dwelling in the darkness and shadows. You are gifted with the ability to see in the dark and gain darkvision to 30 feet. If you already have darkvision (such as through a racial ability or feat), the range of your darkvision is extended by 30 feet.

In addition, in areas of darkness or dim light, special vision such as darkvision does not work to detect your presence. A creature with darkvision must make normal checks to perceive you, or attack you.

DARK DOORWAYS
Beginning at 6th level, you can see the hidden doorways and paths into the realm of shadow. You can teleport up to 30 feet to an unoccupied space within dim light that you can see as a bonus action. This movement is treated as an alternate form of movement and any distance travelled counts toward your total allowed movement.

In areas of bright light, the space immediately behind a creature is considered dim light (the shadow of the creature).

CLOAK OF NIGHT
At 9th level, you are able to manifest a shadowy mantle, a piece of darkness torn from the plane of shadow. In areas of dim light or darkness, you have advantage on all Dexterity (Stealth) checks and can make Dexterity (Stealth) checks to hide even if there is no nearby cover.

During combat, as a reaction, you can use the Cloak of Night as a defensive tool. In areas of dim light, you gain cold resistance and gain the benefit of half cover. When used in this manner, the Cloak of Night lasts for a number of minutes equal to your proficiency bonus. Upon expiration, you lose all benefits of the Cloak of Night feature until you have completed a long rest.

SHADOWED EDGE
At 13th level, you call upon the powers of shadow to aid in your battles, creating a nimbus of shadow and cold to enshroud you weapon. You use a bonus action to imbue your weapon with shadows. The weapon’s damage type changes to cold, it inflicts an additional 1d6 cold damage, and any sources of non-magical bright light in a 30 foot radius are reduced to dim light.

If you use Shadowed Edge in an area of magic light or a source of magic light is introduced in an area affected by this feature, you may immediately end the benefit, causing any magical light to be dispelled.

Shadowed Edge lasts for a number of rounds equal to your proficiency bonus. You may use this feature a number of times equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of one) before needing a short rest.

NIGHT MASK
At 17th, you become one with the night, making your form shadowy and insubstantial. You gain the following benefits:

- Your base movement speed increases by 10 feet
- You have advantage on all Dexterity (Acrobatics) and Strength (Athletics) checks and double your running and standing jump distance
- You gain immunity to cold damage
- You gain resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage
- You cannot benefit from healing magic
- Any creature you kill during this time forms into a lesser shadow under your control. The lesser shadow remains in existence for 2 rounds and follows your commands until it is killed or is exposed to bright light.

Night Mask lasts for 1 minute. It ends early if you are knocked unconscious or if your turn ends and you haven’t attacked a creature since your last turn. You can also end Night Mask on your turn as a bonus action.

You must finish a long rest before you can use this feature again.





COMPANION COMBAT STYLE
At 3rd level, you learn a combat style selected from the following list:

DEFENSE
While you are wearing armor, you gain a +1 bonus to AC.

SKIRMISHER
When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack.

PROTECTION
When a creature you can see attacks a target other than you that is within 5 feet of you, you can use your reaction to impose disadvantage on the attack roll. You must be wielding a shield.

RESOLUTE ADVANCE
At 6th level, as long as your ending location is within 5 feet of an ally, you can use Dash as a bonus action and any opponents that attack you with an opportunity attack during the Resolute Advance do so at disadvantage.

MASTERFUL ALLY
At 9th level, you have extensive training on aiding others in combat situations. You are always considered to have Help as a readied action. This is in addition to any other readied action you may have though you are still limited to using a single readied action during any given round.

PRECEPTOR
At 13th level you are expert at imparting your tactical knowledge to your allies. As a bonus action, you can apply one feat you know to a number of allies equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of 1) within a 10 foot radius. Any allies gaining the feat have access to the feat’s features, with the exception of ability score increases, until the end of their next turn.

You may use this ability once per long rest.

SHARED DEFENSE
At 17th level, you gain the ability to interpose yourself between an ally and immediate danger. A number of times equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of one), you can use your reaction to move up to 15 feet to an ally that is the subject of an attack by a hostile creature, adding your proficiency bonus to your ally’s AC for that attack.





STRANGLER
At 3rd level, you have advantage on any Strength check to grapple an opponent of your size or smaller.

While you have a creature under the control of your grapple, you can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of unarmed strikes and roll a d4 for unarmed damage against the grappled creature. Furthermore, you can make one additional attack with an unarmed strike or weapon with the light property as a bonus action against any opponent maintained in your grapple.

The damage from your unarmed strikes increase to d6 at 11th level, and d8 at 17th level.

EFFORTLESS ABDUCTION
At 6th level, you increase your base movement by 10 feet and when attempting to move an opponent you have successfully grappled, you speed is not reduced.

IRON GRIP
At 9th level, you gain proficiency with the strangler’s cord and treat any Strength checks that involve hand strength or grip as if your Strength was increased by an amount equal to your proficiency bonus (maximum of 24). In addition, any attempts to disarm (DMG, p. 271) you are at a disadvantage

PRESSURE POINTS
At 13th level, your hands become deadly weapons even when not wrapped around an opponent’s throat. You can make unarmed strikes at any time, not just when an opponent is grappled. Your unarmed strikes all use the base damage from the Strangler feature.

As an action, you can perform a pressure point attack against an opponent’s never centers. To do this, you make one unarmed melee attack against a selected target. On a successful hit, you do not inflict any damage but your opponent must make a Constitution saving throw (DC 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength bonus). On a failed save, you can select one of the following effects:

- The target spasms with sudden pain, dropping a random object held in its hands.
- The target is deafened and blinded until the end of its next turn
- The target momentarily loses control of its motor functions and moves 5 feet in a direction of your choice; this movement provokes opportunity attacks
___
Creatures without functioning nervous systems are immune.

PARALYZING TOUCH
At 17th level, your unarmed strikes are blurs and your fingers are hard as steel. Your unarmed attacks inflict your choice of bludgeoning or piercing damage and, any time you have advantage on an attack roll when making an unarmed attack, you can choose to instead make two attacks without advantage.

Additionally, when you hit another creature with an unarmed attack, you can strike at its nerve center. The target must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or be paralyzed until the end of your next turn. You may perform this attack once per long rest.


STRANGLER’S CORD
martial melee weapon
Cost: 50 gp
Damage: N/A
Weight: 1 lb
Properties: special, two-handed

Typically made from black or red silk or fine wire, the “cord” is usually one to two feet in length and anchored at both ends with grips or handles. Some strangler’s cords are constructed in a manner similar to a noose to allow for greater freedom of the wielder’s off-hand.

While using a strangler’s cord, any unarmed attacks you make against an opponent that you have grappled are counted as slashing damage, do an extra die of damage, and score a critical hit on a roll of 19 or 20. Effective use of a strangler’s cord requires two hands and is an exception to the rule requiring one free hand to initiate a grapple. Creatures grappled with a strangler’s cord are unable to speak or use spells or features that have a verbal component.

Proficiency with this weapon can only be gained through this class feature, the training downtime activity (with a proficient instructor), or the Weapon Master feat. If you do not have proficiency with the strangler’s cord tool, you do not gain the benefit of the extra damage die and make all unarmed attacks at disadvantage while wielding it.

A strangler’s cord is considered a slashing weapon for interaction with injury poisons.





CALM DETACHMENT
At 3rd level, you have advantage on saves versus any effect that causes the *frightened* or *charmed* condition.

VISAGE STEALER
Starting at 6th level, when you kill or render a foe of the same race as yourself unconscious, as a bonus action you can assume the appearance of that target as if using the *disguise self* spell. You keep the stolen face until you take a new face from another victim, you dismiss it as a bonus action, or 24 hours pass. The save DC to see through this disguise with an Intelligence (Investigation) attempt is equal to 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier.

You may use this ability a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus before having to take a long rest to renew the ability.

At 15th level, Visage Stealer works on any humanoid creature and acts as the change appearance option of the *alter self* spell, with the exception of duration. This effect is considered magical and requires concentration to maintain.

FEIGNED REVERENCE
Upon reaching 9th level, due to exposure to the Faceless religion, you gain the Intelligence (Religion) skill and you have advantage on any checks to imitate religions figures, either through use of a disguise kit or a skill such as Charisma (Deception) or Charisma (Performance).

In addition, your exposure to the Faceless gives you a certain degree of protection from the machinations of deities. Once per short rest as a reaction, you can declare advantage on any saving throw against a spell or feature of divine origin such as a spell cast by a Cleric. If the effect does not normally allow a saving throw, you gain a saving throw to resist the effect.

UNSEEING GIFT
The Faceless god can take sight as well as memory. At 13th level, when fighting an opponent you have marked with your Assassin's Mark feature, you may attempt to steal the vision of your target. By using a bonus action upon a successful attack, a marked target must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed saving throw, the target gains the *blinded* condition until the end of its next turn.

You may use Unseeing a number of times equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of one) before needing a short or long rest.

FACELESS PRIEST
Starting at 17th level, you are considered a priest of the Faceless and gain the Channel Divinity features of either the Knowledge or Trickery Cleric domains, your choice.

When you use your Channel Divinity, you choose which effect to create. You can use your Channel Divinity once and regain the expended use when you finish a short or long rest.

Some Channel Divinity effects may require a saving throws, which is equal to DC 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier.

[MrStabby]

Heh, there is a lot of overlap here with a class I created for one of my players so I actually have some experience of seeing stuff like this in a game.

Firstly, it seems reasonably well balanced. I have concerns, but for once balance isn't one of them. Some features are maybe a bit powerful but I am not overall worried. I will review the base class piece by piece, but will do the archetypes just as a few notes.

HP/Proficiencies/Equipment

d10 HP seems more than I would expect. I realise you are looking for a defensive boost but thematically I would expect something more like a rogue or a monk. I would prefer to have the bonus elsewhere but this may just be personal taste. Proficient saves are two "weak" saves as you note. Int/Con might work if you want to avoid dex. Alternatively you might consider breaking the pattern somewhat and having Int/Str/Cha - three weak saves. If you lowers the HP die it would at least be some defensive recompense. On skills - just a note that persuasion is there twice. Equipment is pretty much expected but a bit more range might enable more styles.

Assassins Mark
A very powerful ability and kind of the core of the class.
Advantage on checks - just be careful of wording. I think it is clear but these are not skills listed, commonly it would be "advantage on strength checks to shove a creature" or similar. I think its fine.
Weapon damage is fine, but bear in mind this is powerful for those multiclassing out.
No opportunity attacks seems a bit tagged on and not that thematic. I might be missing part of your vision here though. It seems like it should be a more offensive than defensive ability. I would prefer to see this replaced by something like the tracking bonus from hunter's mark or they get disadvantage on hide checks or similar.
Disadvantage on concentration checks - seems fine and fun and sets you apart from other classes. However it makes it harder to specialise through things like the mage slayer feat. Maybe adding Int to DC would let characters become very specialised mage-slayers and open up new character options.

The number of times this can be used is quite high. This means that even early on you can use this for most encounters in a day. It is also a little odd that there is no time limit. You can spot someone one day, use the ability and come back the next to kill them.

Reflexive Insight
This is fine

Deadly Assailant
This needs a bit of a fix. Mainly, again due to multiclassing. Now a rogue can get a quarterstaff, pole arm mastery/sentinel combination and get lots of sneak attacks off-turn. Using the monk wording from martial arts might be better - just allowing use of dex for these weapons. This ability is small and the class is already quite front-loaded for dipping so I might shift it up to a higher level. Also, if you are successfully hidden from a creature you probably have advantage anyway.

Uncanny Intuition
I don't like this ability. In many ways it's fine but it does encourage players to split the party and go off by themselves. The PC either getting more or less attention as a result and breaking the team dynamic somewhat. The radius is short though, which does mitigate this a little. As usage scales with proficiency bonus you again invite dips for multiclassing. This is fine but as written I think the class offers too much in this regard. It may also be frustrating for a player if they cannot use a class ability because of how a team-mate chose to position themselves.

Guild affiliation - will deal with later

Extra attack
Legitimate, powerful and expected.

Ambuscade
Maybe some clarity is needed. This isn't a restriction on actions, as the mark ability is a bonus action. Can you only use one from the list or can you mark and hide? Can you move? I think the word "only" should appear in the description somewhere.

Trained senses
Table says level 7, text level 8? I am guessing level 7 as well as ambuscade. The dim light thing is fine. The 10ft blindsight is very, very powerful if the party can cast darkness (and it pretty good otherwise anyway).

Anatomical strike
Add half int to any checks? I assume this refers to medicine checks. If it is half int to ANY check then it is a) a bit out of theme for the ability and b) very powerful, especially as there is no skill boos that it doesn't stack with (jack of all trades, proficiency, expertise, advantage). Intelligence to damage is fine, although a big boost. I would put this to level 11 though when classes get their big damage step up, it is comparable with the paladin auto-smite ability. Swapping the 10 and 11 abilities round would appeal to me more.

Regaining use of assassins mark seems to take this over the top a bit. There are so many ways to gain advantage, and the class gets two attacks plus any bonus action/reaction attacks per round. With an archetype that has expanded critical range I think this could be a bit much. Probably a niche issue (and not optimal, but maybe an unintended interaction) but you can also get something like eldritch blast for lots of attack rolls per turn to help recharge. Text does not specify critical hit with a weapon.

Infiltrator
A nice almost ribbon ability. I would swap with the level 10 ability though to match convention.

Unreadable
Perfectly fine. It is worth making sure that the level 13 archetype abilities are solid though as this is not a big power boost in most campaigns. If level 11 is low power then there would be a real feeling of dry levels if the archetype is not powerful.

Lethal attack
I don't like this. Thematically it is great but it does allow doubling of a critical hit (and you would have advantage). I think just making it a critical on a failed save avoids this doubling up and potentially ruining encounters in an anticlimactic fashion.

Prescient evasion
Yeah, fine. I would make it per long rest rather than short rest though. If you are towards the back line you may only get one serious attack per short rest anyway.

Death Mark
Totally over the top and has the ability to instantly kill a lot of enemies. Yes the class might be about single target damage but this takes it to the point where certain types of encounter are just not fun for anyone anymore. It may be fine in terms of average power (actually I still think it's too much but meteor swarm has been in play for a couple of levels already), but the power is concentrated in a way that is likely to diminish fun at the table. On the other hand it is level 20 so probably wont see too much play.


Overall I would need to run some rough calculations to check damage was within roughly normal ranges before I allowed it. You seem to have done a solid job on everything else so i assume this easily quantified aspect has also been taken care of. One thing that did jump out was that this class does require a LOT of bookkeeping. Multiple abilities usable different numbers of times per day recovering on different short/long rest cycles. Might I suggest changing every ability to a resource based system like monk Ki? Unifying it this way makes it potentially more powerful (use the abilities you need, not what you have spare) but it is also likely to make it easier to remember at the table for little functional loss of choice.

I would consider some more the impact of multiclassing though. Some interactions are powerful and the number that use proficiency will tend to favour multiclassing as well. The unique power of the early levels will also disproportionately favour dips.

Onto the archetypes - and there are a lot of them
Some of these don't really feel like guilds or assassin archetypes. They feel like they might be better saved for another class.

Some of these also seem to be more than ideally DM dependant. Poisoner's guild, for example, requires you to have access to poison and enemies that are not immune to poison.

Others, like stranglers guild seem a little overpowered.

I think you have a base class that is at the upper end of power for a base class but you are cramming a lot into the subclasses as well.


I am not saying you should do the same, but when i built my similar class my archetypes were:

Alchemy - mainly crafting poisons, after a long rest you got a certain number of items to use by the end of the day. Also included non poison items as well so you had something useful if up against poison immune enemies. The poisons were more about debilitating status effects added to attacks.

The surgeon - More anatomy based. Called shots on different body areas to stun, paralyse and immobilise the enemy. Could use some class resources for healing as well.

The trapper - deployed traps and other devices - both physical and magical. Major theme was restricting movement and punishing enemies for going into certain areas.

Anyway - hope you made it to the end of the wall of text.

[Mourne]

d10 HP seems more than I would expect. I realise you are looking for a defensive boost but thematically I would expect something more like a rogue or a monk. I would prefer to have the bonus elsewhere but this may just be personal taste.


Yeah, the d10 was a last minute addition. The class was originally d8 which seemed the right choice but I thought I’d change things and see how it went. I do envision this class a little more frontline than a Rogue, but maybe not d10.


Proficient saves are two "weak" saves as you note. Int/Con might work if you want to avoid dex. Alternatively you might consider breaking the pattern somewhat and having Int/Str/Cha - three weak saves. If you lowers the HP die it would at least be some defensive recompense.


That’s funny. I had originally thought about having the three weak saves but the response from the masses was not in favor. I think, at this point, substituting CON for STR is probably the cleanest and route of least resistance.


On skills - just a note that persuasion is there twice.


Maybe they’re just really persuasive? ; ) Thanks. Will fix it.


Assassins Mark. A very powerful ability and kind of the core of the class.

Truly, this is meant to be the core feature. It’s somewhat designed to be similar to rage.


Advantage on checks - just be careful of wording. I think it is clear but these are not skills listed, commonly it would be "advantage on strength checks to shove a creature" or similar. I think its fine.

I’ll clean up the wording. It’s always so clear in my head.


Weapon damage is fine, but bear in mind this is powerful for those multiclassing out.

Multiclassing always bites me. It would probably help to base the damage bonus on Assassin level similar to how the Barbarian’s rage bonus is handled, de-couple it from proficiency (I was probably just too lazy to add another column to the class way back when).


No opportunity attacks seems a bit tagged on and not that thematic. I might be missing part of your vision here though. It seems like it should be a more offensive than defensive ability. I would prefer to see this replaced by something like the tracking bonus from hunter's mark or they get disadvantage on hide checks or similar.

Thematically, it was meant to be that the marked victim was so in fear of the Assassin’s attacks and counterattacks that they went totally defensive, not even bothering to strike when the opportunity presented itself. I had considered allowing the Assassin to always know the general direction/location of a marked (living) marked creature within 1 mile.


Disadvantage on concentration checks - seems fine and fun and sets you apart from other classes. However it makes it harder to specialise through things like the mage slayer feat. Maybe adding Int to DC would let characters become very specialised mage-slayers and open up new character options.

Interesting thought.


The number of times this can be used is quite high. This means that even early on you can use this for most encounters in a day. It is also a little odd that there is no time limit. You can spot someone one day, use the ability and come back the next to kill them.

It was supposed to be somewhat comparable to the number of uses for Barbarian rage though I can see how it may be a little too high (you should’ve seen when it had no limit). It’s a limiter that you can only ever have one active target marked at a time…so spotting someone one day and marking them for later would lock you out of the feature. Losing line of sight might be a simple solution.


Deadly Assailant. This needs a bit of a fix. Mainly, again due to multiclassing. Now a rogue can get a quarterstaff, pole arm mastery/sentinel combination and get lots of sneak attacks off-turn. Using the monk wording from martial arts might be better - just allowing use of dex for these weapons. This ability is small and the class is already quite front-loaded for dipping so I might shift it up to a higher level. Also, if you are successfully hidden from a creature you probably have advantage anyway.

Why they included quarterstaff in Polearm Mastery (/grumble)…

I’m not sure this feature is even really needed. It was mainly a way to allow for a DEX based Assassin to be as viable as a STR based.


Uncanny Intuition. I don't like this ability. In many ways it's fine but it does encourage players to split the party and go off by themselves. The PC either getting more or less attention as a resonly every have one active target marked at a time…so spotting someone one day and marking them for later would lock you out of the feature.ult and breaking the team dynamic somewhat. The radius is short though, which does mitigate this a little. As usage scales with proficiency bonus you again invite dips for multiclassing. This is fine but as written I think the class offers too much in this regard. It may also be frustrating for a player if they cannot use a class ability because of how a team-mate chose to position themselves.

The tethering was a last minute addition though, as noted, the range is not so great that the Assassin would be operating alone. Thematically, it was to allow for the Assassin to mark a target and be able to advance and attack them without getting ground into paste. I’ll fix the proficiency thing… perhaps consume a use of Assassin’s Mark when activating or just once per short rest.


Ambuscade. Maybe some clarity is needed. This isn't a restriction on actions, as the mark ability is a bonus action. Can you only use one from the list or can you mark and hide? Can you move? I think the word "only" should appear in the description somewhere.

Intended to be only one from the list. I’ll work on clarity.


Trained senses. Table says level 7, text level 8? I am guessing level 7 as well as ambuscade. The dim light thing is fine. The 10ft blindsight is very, very powerful if the party can cast darkness (and it pretty good otherwise anyway).

Yes, same level as Ambuscade. I do realize it is powerful but it’s a very limited range (so would prohibit ranged attacks). I really wanted to stay away from the very boring granting of darkvision (which everyone and their brother seems to have anyway). I’ll see if I can come up with something else for this…


Anatomical strike. Add half int to any checks? I assume this refers to medicine checks.

Just medicine checks…and maybe not needed anyway (the extra bonus that is).


Intelligence to damage is fine, although a big boost. I would put this to level 11 though when classes get their big damage step up, it is comparable with the paladin auto-smite ability. Swapping the 10 and 11 abilities round would appeal to me more.

Easily done as I can’t find a reason not to. One interesting thing about the Assassin at this level as, while they don’t do the most damage, there isn’t a lot of variance in the damage they do output. It’s very “dependable damage” if that makes sense.


Regaining use of assassins mark seems to take this over the top a bit.

Another last minute panic addition. Certainly not needed, unless the number of Assassin Mark uses is cut considerably.


Unreadable. Perfectly fine. It is worth making sure that the level 13 archetype abilities are solid though as this is not a big power boost in most campaigns. If level 11 is low power then there would be a real feeling of dry levels if the archetype is not powerful.

The archetypes were all meant to have a significant feature at 13th.


Lethal attack. I don't like this. Thematically it is great but it does allow doubling of a critical hit (and you would have advantage). I think just making it a critical on a failed save avoids this doubling up and potentially ruining encounters in an anticlimactic fashion.

I hadn’t considered the doubling of the critical. Good Catch. Your solution works fine but what happens if the attack is already a critical?


Prescient evasion. Yeah, fine. I would make it per long rest rather than short rest though. If you are towards the back line you may only get one serious attack per short rest anyway.

I’d meant this as a skirmisher type character, in and out of the front lines. A change here either way will probably not have too much of an impact.


Death Mark. Totally over the top and has the ability to instantly kill a lot of enemies...

Could eliminate the double damage and just allow the extended critical range?


Might I suggest changing every ability to a resource based system like monk Ki? Unifying it this way makes it potentially more powerful (use the abilities you need, not what you have spare) but it is also likely to make it easier to remember at the table for little functional loss of choice.

I had considered fueling everything with Assassin’s Mark (maybe why I had the uses set so high...).


Some of these don't really feel like guilds or assassin archetypes. They feel like they might be better saved for another class.

Truth be told, I dislike some of the archetypes and have an issue with the balance…things just got out of hand.


Some of these also seem to be more than ideally DM dependant. Poisoner's guild, for example, requires you to have access to poison and enemies that are not immune to poison.

Truthfully, I balanced around the PHB’s basic poison. I have a poison rules-lite addendum whenever I’m able to add links to posts. I don’t feel it’s unreasonable for a DM to allow the basic poison to a PC (the DMG poisons, on the other hand…).


Others, like stranglers guild seem a little overpowered.

I definitely overtuned this one in the last pass. I may have to revert back to the previous version. Though, if things did fuel off of Assassin’s Mark, would help balance it out a little bit.


I think you have a base class that is at the upper end of power for a base class but you are cramming a lot into the subclasses as well.

I think if I had to redo the guilds, I’d keep the poisoner’s, stranglers, shadow (not because I love it, just because it’s a popular theme), and the faceless (Games of Thones homage). I’d add one more guild that was more about toe-to-toe execution. I'd be interested in your take on alchemy.

Whew! That quoting is painful (I have to be doing something wrong).

Thank so much for your comments! Not only do I not mind the wall of text replies, I think they’re great!

[MrStabby]

Thematically, it was meant to be that the marked victim was so in fear of the Assassin’s attacks and counterattacks that they went totally defensive, not even bothering to strike when the opportunity presented itself. I had considered allowing the Assassin to always know the general direction/location of a marked (living) marked creature within 1 mile.

Maybe not for this ability, but a fear based ability might be a nice addition to the class, or to a subclass. If you find abilities are not working and want to have something to swap in it could work.



It was supposed to be somewhat comparable to the number of uses for Barbarian rage though I can see how it may be a little too high (you should’ve seen when it had no limit). It’s a limiter that you can only ever have one active target marked at a time…so spotting someone one day and marking them for later would lock you out of the feature. Losing line of sight might be a simple solution.
Losing line of sight would work. It also makes it a bit more interactive as, like barbarian rage, the enemies can do something about it. It would weaken it significantly though. Alternatively give it a duration of 1 minute. Most fights are over in less than 10 rounds.


I’m not sure this feature is even really needed. It was mainly a way to allow for a DEX based Assassin to be as viable as a STR based.
I agree. It isn't like dex is a bad stat either.


Yes, same level as Ambuscade. I do realize it is powerful but it’s a very limited range (so would prohibit ranged attacks). I really wanted to stay away from the very boring granting of darkvision (which everyone and their brother seems to have anyway). I’ll see if I can come up with something else for this…
This has grown on me a little. It is a nice perception boost and gives something that other classes don't get. It is a powerful ability, maybe some adjustment of other abilities to make the space for something this powerful?


I hadn’t considered the doubling of the critical. Good Catch. Your solution works fine but what happens if the attack is already a critical?
If it's already a critical then I would imagine it would have little effect. It is also worth considering the interaction with things like paladin smites, rogue sneak attack and spells like booming blade. Maybe an extra amount of damage rather than doubling could work?


I think if I had to redo the guilds, I’d keep the poisoner’s, stranglers, shadow (not because I love it, just because it’s a popular theme), and the faceless (Games of Thones homage). I’d add one more guild that was more about toe-to-toe execution. I'd be interested in your take on alchemy.
I agree these are probably the best/most fitting ones.

My take on alchemy would be something like: at the end of a long rest you may expend a use of your assassins mark. If you do you may create up to 2 items from this list. You may create duplicates of the same item. These items persist until consumed or until you complete another long rest.
1) Poison - gives access to pretty good poison, possibly with some riders attached. Damage could scale with level maybe.
2) Potion - when you learn the ability, select a spell of 1st or 2nd level which targets self. The potion mimics that spell cast on the imbiber (spell level can be adjusted to balance). Potentially a very powerful ability though so maybe just 1st level spells? Maybe scaling with level like a 1/3 caster or something?

Conceivably the two of these could be combined - just pick a spell and if friendly then it can be drunk as a potion, if hostile then applied as a poison.

3) Acid flask/alchemists fire - this is harder to balance as it represents a replacement for an attack. As you attacks get better this would get worse. To be honest, I would probably just skip this aspect of alchemy.

[Mourne]

I’ll have version 6.0 completed shortly. It’s not a complete rewrite but does include a lot of your comments (in some form or another) and improves clarity on some of the features. I think the biggest change is moving to something I toyed around with earlier but never implemented: The use of marks as a resource.

Hopefully my post count will be high enough soon to post links…



Maybe not for this ability, but a fear based ability might be a nice addition to the class, or to a subclass. If you find abilities are not working and want to have something to swap in it could work.

I’m doing a pass (for balance to the new resource mechanic, flavor, and general “does it belong”) through the various guilds at the moment. Fear might be a useful tool in one of them.


Losing line of sight would work. It also makes it a bit more interactive as, like barbarian rage, the enemies can do something about it. It would weaken it significantly though. Alternatively give it a duration of 1 minute. Most fights are over in less than 10 rounds.

I had hesitated on the duration as it would affect another planned feature. I think I’ve found a work around and so may tack on a duration cap similar to the Rage feature.


This has grown on me a little. It is a nice perception boost and gives something that other classes don't get. It is a powerful ability, maybe some adjustment of other abilities to make the space for something this powerful?

Before I tinker with things, I’d like to hear your thoughts on what makes this so powerful. I know there’s some interaction with the darkness spell, it weakens the invisibility condition, and has a slight impact on stealth (though, at 10 feet, I think it’s fairly moot).


If it's already a critical then I would imagine it would have little effect. It is also worth considering the interaction with things like paladin smites, rogue sneak attack and spells like booming blade. Maybe an extra amount of damage rather than doubling could work?

The poisoned condition would remain even if a critical couldn’t be counted twice (talking to myself). I’m thinking the cleanest way to handle this would be to just add a static amount of extra amount of damage.

I cleaned up the wording/conditions of the feature to only apply to weapon damage though that still doesn’t fix the extra damage from the features you mentioned. Something to think on. (Note: I don’t want to use the easy way out: “use of extra damage from another feature negates the benefit of Lethal Strike.”)


My take on alchemy would be something like: at the end of a long rest you may expend a use of your assassins mark. If you do you may create up to 2 items from this list. You may create duplicates of the same item. These items persist until consumed or until you complete another long rest.

Here’s the original Poisoner’s Guild 17th level feature… I felt it was a little too complex and overpowered:

ALCHEMICAL POSTULANT
At 17th level, through dabbling in the alchemical arts you gain proficiency with alchemist’s supplies and learn the secrets of mind altering chemicals and herbs. You can create a number of non-lethal “poisons” using either your poisoner’s kit or alchemist’s supplies. These poisons mimic the effects of certain spells and are applied either through contact, ingestion, or inhalation (your choice at time of creation). You gain a number of recipes for these poisons equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of 1).

You must spend 24 hours and a number of gp equal to 150 twice the level of the base spell to create a special poison, making 1d3 doses. Only you know how to correctly apply or use the poison, anyone else trying to use the poison finds it to be inert.

The following recipes can be created (as per the spell) using your Intelligence as the casting ability to determine the DC and your assassin level as the caster level for the effect (if applicable): bane, beacon of hope, blindness/deafness, charm person, compulsion, confusion, death ward, dissonant whispers, enthrall, faerie fire, fear, friends, harm, hold person, levitate, modify memory, Otto’s irresistible dance, phantasmal force, ray of enfeeblement, ray of sickness, sleep, Tasha’s hideous laughter, suggestion, zone of truth.

If the spell has a concentration requirement, the creature instead gets a saving throw at the end of each of its turns, even if it has already made a saving throw against the effect that turn. If the base spell affects multiple targets, the poison instead affects only a single target and the range is always considered to be touch.

If a victim would normally take damage from the spell, the poison version instead gives that creature a level of exhaustion. These poisons differ in that instead of death, the final level of exhaustion is a deep slumber that lasts a number of hours equal to your Intelligence modifier + your proficiency bonus.



1) Poison - gives access to pretty good poison, possibly with some riders attached. Damage could scale with level maybe.

I’ve done this somewhat with my “Poison Lite” rules that I was too lazy to type in my original post. Will be available with the Homebrewery link.


2) Potion - when you learn the ability, select a spell of 1st or 2nd level which targets self. The potion mimics that spell cast on the imbiber (spell level can be adjusted to balance). Potentially a very powerful ability though so maybe just 1st level spells? Maybe scaling with level like a 1/3 caster or something?

Similar to the feature I posted?


3) Acid flask/alchemists fire - this is harder to balance as it represents a replacement for an attack. As you attacks get better this would get worse. To be honest, I would probably just skip this aspect of alchemy.

I avoided this as I have an Alchemist base class that this type of thing is much more applicable to. Nothing like complicating homebrewing by having to account for interactions with your own new classes. ; )

Again, thank you! Your input has been the “outsider view” that I’ve been lacking. I can’t believe I had so many flaws in a product that I had considered to be nearly done.

[MrStabby]

Before I tinker with things, I’d like to hear your thoughts on what makes this so powerful. I know there’s some interaction with the darkness spell, it weakens the invisibility condition, and has a slight impact on stealth (though, at 10 feet, I think it’s fairly moot).

Pretty much the things you mentioned. I would note that you generally know where things are unless they take the hide action. You have a movement speed so you can still walk over to the invisible creature to get it within your 10 ft. One thing you did miss was fog effects and smoke that would obscure an enemy. In addition to darkness (and variants like hunger of Hadar) there are also a lot of spells with cloud effects where this can be useful.


The poisoned condition would remain even if a critical couldn’t be counted twice (talking to myself). I’m thinking the cleanest way to handle this would be to just add a static amount of extra amount of damage.

I cleaned up the wording/conditions of the feature to only apply to weapon damage though that still doesn’t fix the extra damage from the features you mentioned. Something to think on. (Note: I don’t want to use the easy way out: “use of extra damage from another feature negates the benefit of Lethal Strike.”)

Maybe just add a couple of d12s or something? A typical attack would be doing roughly that much damage anyway and it wouldn't leave things open for abuse from features from other classes. Also, d12s are awesome and underused.





At 17th level, through dabbling in the alchemical arts you gain proficiency with alchemist’s supplies and learn the secrets of mind altering chemicals and herbs. You can create a number of non-lethal “poisons” using either your poisoner’s kit or alchemist’s supplies. These poisons mimic the effects of certain spells and are applied either through contact, ingestion, or inhalation (your choice at time of creation). You gain a number of recipes for these poisons equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of 1).
A few things - you get an ASI after this, if you increase your Int do you retroactively gain more recipes?



You must spend 24 hours and a number of gp equal to 150 twice the level of the base spell to create a special poison, making 1d3 doses. Only you know how to correctly apply or use the poison, anyone else trying to use the poison finds it to be inert.
This bit I don't like. You cant use the ability when in a rush and it consumes party resources, meaning you may not always want to use it. If you do use it it applies just a touch of bookkeeping burden to the ability (you may also guess I am not a fan of the find familiar spell). d3 doses also puts this ability quite strongly in the hands of the dice. You may sometimes not even get to do your awesome stuff much because of the d3 result - and it still costs the same.


If the spell has a concentration requirement, the creature instead gets a saving throw at the end of each of its turns, even if it has already made a saving throw against the effect that turn. If the base spell affects multiple targets, the poison instead affects only a single target and the range is always considered to be touch.
My instinct would be to skip concentration and just let it be a powerful ability. It is only a small number of times per day and a tight review of spells should keep it safe. Ensuring that the resource usage (in terms of per day abilities) is steep enough to make people think about not using it at every opportunity should keep this in balance.


If a victim would normally take damage from the spell, the poison version instead gives that creature a level of exhaustion. These poisons differ in that instead of death, the final level of exhaustion is a deep slumber that lasts a number of hours equal to your Intelligence modifier + your proficiency bonus.
Personally I would just not have damaging spells on the list. Simpler and makes the class easier to read. As it is you are just putting a competing status effect on the table but one that can stack in a very powerful manner. As the damage spells listed either don't use a save for the damage or do damage even on a successful save, it is pretty powerful. No save exhaustion that can bypass legendary saves?!


Again, thank you! Your input has been the “outsider view” that I’ve been lacking. I can’t believe I had so many flaws in a product that I had considered to be nearly done.
No problem. It is quite nice to see something that is thoughtful, aiming to be the right power level and that is also mechanically interesting.

[Mourne]

No problem. It is quite nice to see something that is thoughtful, aiming to be the right power level and that is also mechanically interesting.

I'll count on you to be as forgiving on my next post. ; )

[MrStabby]

Ok, the new version is looking pretty solid. I think thematically most things are good - down to balancing and fine tuning now I think.

A few points on the overall side of things:

1) Balance. I feel the class is still a little front weighted, a slight switch away from some of the early abilities might be good. I also feel the class has a pretty weak midgame. A lot of those mid level abilities are just not that powerful. The slowing of the progression of getting uses or marks isn't helping so much. The subclasses are varied - the strangler seems strong, the others less so.

2) Related to 1: The use of the assassins marks to power other abilities is neat. It offers flexibility, however it does mean that whenever you get an ability that uses this resource it isn't a big bump in power as it drains resources from other uses.

3) Related to 2: you learn new uses for your mark but not all of these uses are equal. I think you may suffer from the problem that the monk has in that a cool and flexible ability doesn't see as many different uses as it could as Ki is most efficient in one ability. Ideally all uses should be as powerful.

As a thought - if different uses of the same resource should be roughly as powerful, it shouldn't matter in which order they come. Could you have something like battle master manoeuvres where you select which abilities to learn from a list as you level up? No power or balance issues but should let players customise a little more?


As to specific features:
Deadly assailant. You said you wanted Str builds to be viable as well as Dex builds. This pushes people a bit towards dex builds. In terms of balance testing the best use I can think of this might be to take rogue levels to sneak attack with and to take a level of fighter for great weapon fighting. Even this isn't really over the top. Great weapon fighting would add an extra 2/3 of a point of damage to every sneak attack die. Even at level 20 (17 rogue, 1 fighter, 1 assassin) you are still behind on sneak attack damage relative to a single classed rogue and only ahead by about 1-2 damage per round (although you would have other advantages).

Uncanny intuition
A bit of a niche ability. Monks can use Ki to do this, they get more of it and it comes back on a short rest. It doesn't mean it's wrong - as there is more power here in non resource dependant abilities.

Guild secret (3rd)
The guild attributes are a little uncharacteristic in that they start off pretty modest. Most classes get something defining that will see a lot of use - battlemaster manoeuvres, access to domain spells, spellcasting...

Poison: a use for a bonus action. This gets replicated at 7th level for ambuscade so it is missing the mark a little.

Shadow: Useful but not high powered abilities. More darkvision is always nice though.

Strangler: Advantage on grapples - awesome, even by itself. Using dex for unarmed strikes is pretty irrelevant I think as if you are wanting to grapple you will be strong. Bonus attack if grappling is a really nice addition though. Strike damage increase - pretty marginal but always nice with the strangulation cord*.

Faceless: Another marginally useful ability

Guild Secret (6th level)
Poison: Adding int to DC is pretty cool. It really relies on a stable flow of coin though to funt poison.

Shadow: This move is very cool as well. Natural comparison is with shadowmonk - which i think is a little stronger (advantage and not costing your movement vs bonus action). Still cool.

Strangler: So this one gets the extra speed. And can drag people around. A solid ability.

Faceless: A weaker version of a warlock invocation that consumes limited daily resources? Is this supposed to compete with or compliment the 10th level infiltrator ability? Probably in need of a bit of pepping up.


Ambuscade
This is a nice touch, but is not a really substantive ability. Assassins Mark frees up a bonus action (only useful if you can use it), dash and hide are what a rogue can do as a bonus action at level 2 (hide is also pretty useless unless you are already in cover as you cant move as part of this turn), likewise poison is a more specific use of the thief fast hands ability. This is nice to have, but in practice it may be not much more use than a free bonus action once per combat. What I like about this is that it has a different feel depending on whether you dump dex or not. With low dex it lets you get out of likely AoE spells or kill zones before enemies get a chance to cast walls of force, fireballs or whatever. With high dex you get to prep for your turn a bit more to make you a little more effective, knowing that you are likely to get a turn before these other effects would happen.

Trained senses
Discussed before really. With ambuscade it is a solid level 7 ability. Both are unique, but not character defining, both are useful but not overpowered.

Guild secret (9th level)
Poison: use a poison as a potion? Sure it's useful but it also feels wasteful - potentially 2d4 extra damage on 20 hits vs 2d4 healing? A weak specilism ability in the middle of a set of lower power class abilities kind of hurts.

Shadow: does this require an action? A bonus action? Makes the ambuscade hide option better if its up (which seems a little unlikely). The combat use of the skill - occasionally useful but is a weaker version of shield/absorb elements. Not a powerful ability.

Strangler: is this supposed to affect grapples? It makes the difference between very powerful and very weak

Faceless: "divine origin" is kind of ill-defined in the game and may slow things down if the player is constantly asking if something is divine. From an ease of play perspective resistance to necrotic and radiant damage might be simpler?

Infiltrator
No big deal, but an occasional weak level is to be expected.

Anatomical Strike
Not at all bad as an ability - comparable to level 6 spells or a fighters extra attack? Yeah probably about right. Fighters extra attack is a big deal when you add damage bonuses from fighting style, the extra ASIs, not needing high secondary stat, and any feats. The natural comparison to the Paladin's damage boost - slightly higher damage on average, although allows ranged weapons but none of the bonuses that radiant damage often gets.

Guild secrets (13th level)
Poison: a situational ability. You are probably wanting to build up a small stock of super-poisons which are great when you can use them. If the campaign has a lot of downtime where you can spare your marks this is a lot better. Maybe very, very powerful (2d10 extra damage per hit).

Shadow: Like a slightly better divine favour. Its ok, but at level 13 it will not change things that much. Some side benefits/limitations as well.

Strangulation: Is this an action as well? The 1st bullet you can pretty much do anyway by trying to disarm an enemy - possibly more easily as well. Blindness is nice - is it worth using your action to do this? Expending a mark as well? Seems a bit steep. Moving 5ft - well the opportunity attacks are nice but other than those you could do the same thing with a shove and still have a spare attack.

Faceless: Blindness is solid and it lasts a while. I would compare to the monk though. On a hit expend a resource for a con save or have deleterious effect on the target till end of your next turn. Only monks get more resources, recover theirs on a short rest and stunned is much more powerful than blinded. I would say have this hit another stat to avoid direct comparisons and maybe have them blind until a save is made.

Unreadable
More fluff than anything else.

Lethal attack
A bit weak. Again use of common resources hinders this. I would boost available resources but also maybe make the damage automatic and the save to be vs being poisoned. 2d6 damage as a boost is worse than what a paladin gets for expending their long rest resources, and they will get many more of them by level 16. Maybe the poisoned condition can be they make a save at end of each of their turns - a little more long lived? It also helps separate the ability from the paladin smite.

Guild Secrets
Poison: An average 2.5 points of damage added per hit at 17th level? The type with the most immunity? Hardly overpowered
Shadow: Ok, this looks more like a level 17 ability, it is somewhat situational but a lot of bonuses here so something should apply (with assassin mark using abilities situational is good - it means there is value to other abilities as it is not the universal BEST use, whilst still being sometimes useful). The tightness of marks diminishes this power somewhat.
Strangulation: Is the an "as an action" text missing here? Paralysed is good but as 17th level sorcerers are quickening hold person, eldritch knights are hiting them to make them fail their save then casting it, monks are keeping the enemy stunned for the whole combat with multiple saves per turn... It is a bit unimpressive.

Prescient Evasion
Fine

Death Mark
This needs punching up a bit - last iteration was problematic as it made it too easy for dumb luck to destroy encounters. This is just a bit of an underwhelming capstone on a class that has not had a particularly powerful set of abilities leading up to the top.

*Strangulation cord is really, really scary. Imagine an open hand monk who learned proficiency in this. Attack (grapple), Attack (unarmed strike - using monk damage die doubled, and doubled again on a 19 or 20), flurry bonus action attack (more double die and increased hit range, plus save or be prone), final attack (advantage if prone, more monk damage die, even greater chance of a critical hit).

I think, possibly a first for homebrew here, this class is a little underpowered. Assassins mark progression is slow. Yes you get more than barbarians get rages, but rages will help an entire combat not just taking down one guy (and they get unlimited at level 20). It was ok before when there were a bunch of per day and per short rest abilities to supplement them but now I think the pool should be a little deeper. Barbarian rages also offer more benefits than assassins mark. Furthermore I think the barbarian base class offers more at-will power than the Assassin does. This is good news though. Now all of those abilities you wanted to put in but were worried would be over the top - now there is a bit of space for them.

[Mourne]

Ok, the new version is looking pretty solid. I think thematically most things are good - down to balancing and fine tuning now I think.

Thanks! Yeah, I feel it’s in a good place right now. The mechanic is settled and the general power level is taking shape (seemingly on the low side). As you said, time to fine tune. In regards to the guilds (archetypes), I think I need to approach them in a more systematic manner and I’ve some ideas on how to do this.


1) Balance. I feel the class is still a little front weighted, a slight switch away from some of the early abilities might be good. I also feel the class has a pretty weak midgame. A lot of those mid level abilities are just not that powerful. The slowing of the progression of getting uses or marks isn't helping so much. The subclasses are varied - the strangler seems strong, the others less so.

Some of the mid-game stuff was intended to be balanced by the archetype having a power spike in the same level range (this obviously wasn’t followed as closely as I should have). Balance between the archetypes is still an issue I acknowledge – probably the bulk of the required work in the next version.


2) Related to 1: The use of the assassins marks to power other abilities is neat. It offers flexibility, however it does mean that whenever you get an ability that uses this resource it isn't a big bump in power as it drains resources from other uses.

Always a downside with this type of shared resource (especially given that I essentially guessed at the initial number of and progression of marks).


As a thought - if different uses of the same resource should be roughly as powerful, it shouldn't matter in which order they come. Could you have something like battle master manoeuvres where you select which abilities to learn from a list as you level up? No power or balance issues but should let players customise a little more?

I’ve thought about it but tried to avoid it as I feel I’ve already married the barbarian’s Rage feature (Assassin’s Mark) with a monk’s ki feature. I could probably segregate them better by increasing the power with a commiserate increase in cost…though, as you noted, this dilutes the other abilities as they’re all keying off the same resource.

I won’t dive into addressing each of your other points (I will touch a few that I think are key), but they’re well reasoned and I’ll certainly take them into consideration on the next version. I guess I lied…wall of text replies incoming. Woot!


Deadly assailant...

It almost ends up a fluff ability as I think, in the end, it doesn’t do much for the base class other than letting a DEX based character do a small amount of extra damage (by tying up their free hand)  For some reason, I just can’t let it go. I either need to rework this or cut it.


Uncanny intuition. A bit of a niche ability. Monks can use Ki to do this, they get more of it and it comes back on a short rest. It doesn't mean it's wrong - as there is more power here in non resource dependant abilities.

Maybe coupled with the benefits of Withdraw also…


Guild secret (3rd). The guild attributes are a little uncharacteristic in that they start off pretty modest. Most classes get something defining that will see a lot of use - battlemaster manoeuvres, access to domain spells, spellcasting...

Point taken. I plan on designing a framework for how the guilds should be structured and then revising each one to fit this blueprint.


Poison: a use for a bonus action. This gets replicated at 7th level for ambuscade so it is missing the mark a little.

Not quite. For a non-poisoner assassin, applying a poison to a weapon normally requires a full action.

Being able to apply in the Ambuscade round gives the non-Poisoners an option if they want to dabble with poisons and not lose the action. Obviously, this particular action would probably not be the choice of a poisoner unless they didn’t want a conflict in Round 1 between firing off Assassin’s Mark and applying a poison.



Strangler: Advantage on grapples - awesome, even by itself. Using dex for unarmed strikes is pretty irrelevant I think as if you are wanting to grapple you will be strong. Bonus attack if grappling is a really nice addition though. Strike damage increase - pretty marginal but always nice with the strangulation cord*.

Note that this grapple advantage is only on targets of the same size or smaller (does not apply to large + targets), so it’s a little watered down.



Guild Secret (6th level) Poison: Adding int to DC is pretty cool. It really relies on a stable flow of coin though to funt poison.

True. If you ever do a damage/cost breakdown between poison and magic items, it’s incredibly sad how weak and expensive poison is for the cost. : (


Shadow: This move is very cool as well. Natural comparison is with shadowmonk - which i think is a little stronger (advantage and not costing your movement vs bonus action). Still cool.

I had thoughts about increasing the range and handling it like a fly speed in regards to base movement but ultimately believed that the ability to avoid difficult terrain, moving through enemies, etc. was a good enough benefit that offsetting it with consumption of base movement was warranted.


Faceless: A weaker version of a warlock invocation that consumes limited daily resources? Is this supposed to compete with or compliment the 10th level infiltrator ability? Probably in need of a bit of pepping up.

That was always a concern with the Faceless… their ability completely competes with Infiltrator (and outshines it in certain ways). I’ve some thoughts on how to perk this up some. It's funny, this particular archetype was never intended to be serious... it was kind of theory-crafting to see if I could build something along the lines of GoTs "Faceless".


Guild secret (9th level)
Poison: use a poison as a potion? Sure it's useful but it also feels wasteful - potentially 2d4 extra damage on 20 hits vs 2d4 healing? A weak specilism ability in the middle of a set of lower power class abilities kind of hurts.

It’s poorly worded as the healing effect is per “dose”, intended to mimic the 1 minute duration of the poisons . So, an injury poison has 10 doses that are all applied at the same time (thus the 1 minute/10 round duration in combat). In essence, this gives 10 weak healing potions for each injury poison.


Shadow: does this require an action? A bonus action? Makes the ambuscade hide option better if its up (which seems a little unlikely). The combat use of the skill - occasionally useful but is a weaker version of shield/absorb elements. Not a powerful ability.

Yeah, always up.


Strangler: is this supposed to affect grapples? It makes the difference between very powerful and very weak

No, needs work. The cheery on the sundae was the introduction of the strangler's cord.


Faceless: "divine origin" is kind of ill-defined in the game and may slow things down if the player is constantly asking if something is divine. From an ease of play perspective resistance to necrotic and radiant damage might be simpler?

True. I really stuggled with coming up with something here thematically. This feature is indeed imperfect and will probably be replaced (it just doesn’t fit).



Strangulation: Is this an action as well? The 1st bullet you can pretty much do anyway by trying to disarm an enemy - possibly more easily as well. Blindness is nice - is it worth using your action to do this? Expending a mark as well? Seems a bit steep. Moving 5ft - well the opportunity attacks are nice but other than those you could do the same thing with a shove and still have a spare attack.

I’ll revisit this.


Faceless: Blindness is solid ...

Fair points.


Unreadable. More fluff than anything else.

I’m going to add some more fluff to this one to make it “fluffier” (slightly more useful).


Lethal attack. A bit weak. Again use of common resources hinders this. I would boost available resources but also maybe make the damage automatic and the save to be vs being poisoned. 2d6 damage as a boost is worse than what a paladin gets for expending their long rest resources, and they will get many more of them by level 16. Maybe the poisoned condition can be they make a save at end of each of their turns - a little more long lived? It also helps separate the ability from the paladin smite.

The base resource progression needs to be re-examined. It was essentially based off barbarian rage + 1 even knowing that rage isn’t use to power any features. It was a starting point though. Maybe this is now the time to consider adding back the recovery mechanic (e.g. regain 1 mark every time you crit)?



Poison: An average 2.5 points of damage added per hit at 17th level? The type with the most immunity? Hardly overpowered

Hrm. Even the “considered magical” doesn’t help much. Hardly an archetype capstone.


Strangulation: Is the an "as an action" text missing here? Paralysed is good but as 17th level sorcerers are quickening hold person, eldritch knights are hiting them to make them fail their save then casting it, monks are keeping the enemy stunned for the whole combat with multiple saves per turn... It is a bit unimpressive.

I really need to define a niche for Stranglers… is it monk-like pressure points? Is it just raw damage through unarmed attacks? Or is it all-in on grappling?


Death Mark. This needs punching up a bit...

Well, at one point I had a limited use/resource cost feature as an add-on (sort of an “Execute” move) that was similar to the current rogue assassin archetype’s Death Strike… I think this could serve as baseline and build from there. Maybe something along the lines of:

Execute: Once per long rest you may modify a mark you have placed on a creature to the feared “Uh Oh! I’m screwed”. For as long as your mark is in effect, when you attack and hit a creature, it must make a Constitution saving throw (DC 8 + your Dexterity modifier + your proficiency bonus). On a failed save, double the damage of your attack against the creature.

Alternately…

Open Season: Once per long rest, you may modify a mark you have placed on a creature, displaying it’s vulnerabilities and weakness for all to say. For as long as your mark is in effect, all allies gain the benefits of your Assassin’s Mark feature when attacking the marked creature.

Keep in mind one of these would be in addition to the core parts of the feature.



*Strangulation cord is really, really scary. Imagine an open hand monk who learned proficiency in this. Attack (grapple), Attack (unarmed strike - using monk damage die doubled, and doubled again on a 19 or 20), flurry bonus action attack (more double die and increased hit range, plus save or be prone), final attack (advantage if prone, more monk damage die, even greater chance of a critical hit).

It’s really damn hard to make a class-specific weapon that can’t (reasonably) be interacted with/used by other classes. My only thought here (assuming I want to keep this option, which I kind of like) would to add another restriction in addition to proficiency such as requiring the Iron Grip feature to use.


I think, possibly a first for homebrew here, this class is a little underpowered...

Ha! Yeah, but better coming in under the curve than over… I don’t really want to tack on more features (as I’m usually careful to cap the number of features to be equivalent to the class I’m building off of – in this case barbarian). It does give opportunity to buff some of the existing features.

Well, thanks again! On to working on version 7. I’m finding building reasonable full classes to be very challenging…obviously, you’re never going to satisfy everyone (or catch every permutation) but even ending up with something generally acceptable to the consensus is hard. I fear for my “completed” Gallant, Vagabond, and Skinchanger classes when I get around to posting them.

[Mourne]

Any comments on the latest version would be greatly appreciated. This one's close to the finish line (or trash bin)!