What Does It Take To Kill An Endbringer?

[JNAProductions]

Specifically, Behemoth. 200 layers, each about 1.5 inches thick, each one twice as tough as the last, the outermost layer comparable to steel.

Assuming twice as tough doubles hardness and HP, the final layer (the core) will have Hardness 1.606938e+61, and HP 4.8208141e+61.

So, how does one kill, using raw physical damage?

Edit: Other than a d2 Crusader or Pun-Pun.

[InvisibleBison]

Well...

A 3rd level warblade with 18 Strength and a greatsword can use Mountain Hammer to deal an average of 20 damage that ignored hardness every other round. At that rate, it would take 2.41e60 rounds, or 4.58e53 years, to break the innermost layer. Since each higher layer has half as many hit points, it would take half as long to break through; thus, breaking through all 200 layers would take 9.16e53 years. Not a particularly practical approach, but I think it can serve as a reasonable baseline.

I don't know if Lighting Mace is compatible with martial maneuvers; if it is, you can use Lightning Mace cheese and Mountain Hammer to get an arbitrarily large number of attacks in one round that ignore hardness, which would do the job as well. If it isn't, any effect that lets you ignore hardness for one round could be substituted, but I don't know if there are any.

[Venger]

Hulking hurler with an osmium yoyo standing inside a planar shepherd's bubble is probably a starting point, from there it's just a matter of getting good enough numbers with festering anger or similar.

[Zanos]

Endbringers can't be killed by physical damage as D&D presents it. Scion is a physical god and pretty much had to molecularly disassemble Behemoth for it to actually die.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Use Masochism with the The Perpetual Damage Machine, then hit it once with the Insightful Strike maneuver. That gets an infinite bonus to the attack roll and makes an infinitely high Concentration check to deal infinite damage.

[Lans]

Use Masochism with the The Perpetual Damage Machine, then hit it once with the Insightful Strike maneuver. That gets an infinite bonus to the attack roll and makes an infinitely high Concentration check to deal infinite damage.

This reminds me of the plan to kill B with a laser, 2 portals and a time machine

[Technetium43]

Judging by the calculations I remember some people in the comments doing, literally more energy than the entire physical universe. How that translates to a D&D world, I don't know, but I imagine the answer would still be roughly the same. 'No'.

[ShurikVch]

How about the good old Sphere of Annihilation?

[Zanos]

How about the good old Sphere of Annihilation?
I'm pretty sure this would actually work, although it's not exactly damage.

[Hamste]

There is also infinite caster level loops and burning blood (if it is a creature). Stab yourself and deal infinite damage (note I think the spell happens to share the same name with another spell which means despite them being completely different it might have been replaced by the other spell). Venomfire also works if you don't want to blast an area.

[Buufreak]

Got a source for these critters?

[lord_khaine]

Specifically, Behemoth. 200 layers, each about 1.5 inches thick, each one twice as tough as the last, the outermost layer comparable to steel.

Assuming twice as tough doubles hardness and HP, the final layer (the core) will have Hardness 1.606938e+61, and HP 4.8208141e+61.


I do think that assuming double hardness and hp is faulty though. If all the information we have is that each layer is twice as tough as the previous.
Partly because this means layer 2 can take much more than twice the damage of layer 1.

A more reasonable approch would be to just double the hp of each following layer. That would mean it would take twice as long to breach as the previous.

[ATHATH]

A Mirror of Opposition.

What IS this thing, though? A ship? Is it sentient? Sapient? Mindless? A construct? Is it an object? Are there gaps between the layers? Does its mind, if it has one, extend throughout all of the layers, or just some of them? What kinds of weapons does it have, and how many? What are its sensory capabilities?

[Zanos]

Got a source for these critters?
Endbringers are non-human constructy things from the web novel Worm, they basically do what they say on the tin. IIRC Behemoth in particular has complete control over pretty much all forms of energy, to the point where getting even close to him will instantly kill all but the most resilient of supers in the setting, and hitting him with anything generally results in him deflecting the kinetic energy anyway. As to whether or not they have a mind...not entirely? None of the mental powers in the setting really work on them.

A character in the setting is able to repeatedly amplify light energy through a stable time loop over several years and unleashes the attack on Behemoth. It obliterates all the 'flesh' on his body, but Endbringers don't really have biology, his skeleton proceeds to continue to fight anyway basically unhindered. They're pretty much indestructible by any direct method. The only two characters that are capable of appreciably damaging them are the settings physical god that created all the supers to begin with, and one of the supers who's power is to get other powers. He can actually harm them if he gets matter disintegration or some other OP stuff, but isn't in full control over what power he gets.

[Malimar]

d2 Crusader? If each layer needs to be targeted separately, it still only takes 200 attacks.

[Segev]

http://i.imgur.com/Gfq4q.jpg

If a Tinker got ahold of D&D magic items...

[rmnimoc]

I feel like everyone trying to damage this to death doesn't really get the whole redirect energy thing he's got going on. There's an argument to be made that no one has every damaged him more than he wanted to be damaged, and that he intentionally tanked the superlaser with his face to demoralize the defenders. He was killed by a being that directly countered his control of energy with the ability to stop all motion on a subatomic level. Plus, nearly everything mentioned has been things that only exist in theorycrafting, since no player is physically capable of rolling a die 1*10^50th power, so a d2 crusader COULDN'T kill behemoth.

Behemoth is a giant construct monster with a mass supposedly greater than our solar system. Thanks to spacial/dimensional shenanigans he fits all that in a bipedal humanoid body 30 feet in height. He's a "dynakinetic", with control over energy and motion who often used this control to manifest extreme temperatures inside the body of anyone in his range. He also pumps out constant lethal radiation and does a pretty good impression of Zeus. Every part of his body, sans core, is a giant puppet he drags around to scare people and cause conflict. Eyes, arms, legs, skeleton, all of it is expendable and has no effect on his ability to fight, it's only the core that matters. The properties of the core aren't well explained, but we know it nullifies other spacial and dimensional shenanigans. He is capable of regenerating his entire body in less than 9 months time, but we don't know exactly how long it takes, just less than 9 months.

To get into melee with him, you have to be immune/highly resistant to fire and radiation. Any plan that involves rolling enough dice is a bad one, since you'll die of old age before you roll enough of them to kill him with damage. As the creation of a multidimensional space whale, and thanks to his own dimensional shenanigans, BFR may or may not work. Evidence points to him being mindless and having typical construct immunities. According to the settings Sherlock Holmes equivalent, the density of each layer is double that of the last, to the point where even mono-molecular weapons have no effect. It's only sense is the one granted by it's dynakinesis, giving it the ability to sense all energy within his range, which is unspecified.

[ATHATH]

How many HD does it have?

Master's Voice
You can attempt to emulate the magical aura of other beings entirely.
Prerequisites: Use Magic Device 9 ranks, Wedded to History (Golden Ager)
Benefit: You may, as a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity, attempt to assert control over an unintelligent construct or undead. This requires a Use Magic Device check (DC 20 + creature's HD). If you succeed, you may, as a standard action, command it to perform any task it is capable of performing. Issuing commands takes a Use Magic Device check (DC 10 + creature's HD). You must make this check every round to keep it performing the action, and if you ever fail a check you must re-establish control first. In the presence of the creature's true master, you can never control it.

[Keltest]

I feel like everyone trying to damage this to death doesn't really get the whole redirect energy thing he's got going on. There's an argument to be made that no one has every damaged him more than he wanted to be damaged, and that he intentionally tanked the superlaser with his face to demoralize the defenders. He was killed by a being that directly countered his control of energy with the ability to stop all motion on a subatomic level. Plus, nearly everything mentioned has been things that only exist in theorycrafting, since no player is physically capable of rolling a die 1*10^50th power, so a d2 crusader COULDN'T kill behemoth.

Behemoth is a giant construct monster with a mass supposedly greater than our solar system. Thanks to spacial/dimensional shenanigans he fits all that in a bipedal humanoid body 30 feet in height. He's a "dynakinetic", with control over energy and motion who often used this control to manifest extreme temperatures inside the body of anyone in his range. He also pumps out constant lethal radiation and does a pretty good impression of Zeus. Every part of his body, sans core, is a giant puppet he drags around to scare people and cause conflict. Eyes, arms, legs, skeleton, all of it is expendable and has no effect on his ability to fight, it's only the core that matters. The properties of the core aren't well explained, but we know it nullifies other spacial and dimensional shenanigans. He is capable of regenerating his entire body in less than 9 months time, but we don't know exactly how long it takes, just less than 9 months.

To get into melee with him, you have to be immune/highly resistant to fire and radiation. Any plan that involves rolling enough dice is a bad one, since you'll die of old age before you roll enough of them to kill him with damage. As the creation of a multidimensional space whale, and thanks to his own dimensional shenanigans, BFR may or may not work. Evidence points to him being mindless and having typical construct immunities. According to the settings Sherlock Holmes equivalent, the density of each layer is double that of the last, to the point where even mono-molecular weapons have no effect. It's only sense is the one granted by it's dynakinesis, giving it the ability to sense all energy within his range, which is unspecified.

This does beg the question, through, of what happens when its hit by magic that doesn't manipulate energy? Take, for example, the spell Disintegrate. It doesn't bombard the target with radiation or anything until it falls apart, it just.. makes things not hold together anymore. A fireball would presumably be useless, but if you had a city's population worth of wizards casting disintegrate at it systemically until there wasn't any more left to disintegrate, would that work?

[Zanos]

Behemoth is intelligent. Maybe. Certainly not in a way comparable to people, but it can reason.

D&D is a really, really terrible system to try to implant stuff from Worm into it. Worm has a lot of powers which are absolute.


This does beg the question, through, of what happens when its hit by magic that doesn't manipulate energy? Take, for example, the spell Disintegrate. It doesn't bombard the target with radiation or anything until it falls apart, it just.. makes things not hold together anymore. A fireball would presumably be useless, but if you had a city's population worth of wizards casting disintegrate at it systemically until there wasn't any more left to disintegrate, would that work?
Matter disintegration is one of the only things that can reliably cause real damage to endbringers...so I think this would work?

[J-H]

It takes only a sentence and a bullet at the right time to make them stop.

[Segev]

It takes only a sentence and a bullet at the right time to make them stop.

You assume that made them stop. It was never established for certain whether that really WAS their cause. It was only theorized. And voiced by an unreliable speaker, given the goal of the sentence.

[Necroticplague]

Behemoth is intelligent. Maybe. Certainly not in a way comparable to people, but it can reason.

D&D is a really, really terrible system to try to implant stuff from Worm into it. Worm has a lot of powers which are absolute.

D&D also has a ton of stuff that's absolute, usually to balance out other things that are (i.e, SoDs of various stripes exist, immunities are absolute in nature, incorporeal completely no-sells nonmagic attacks).

[Zanos]

D&D also has a ton of stuff that's absolute, usually to balance out other things that are (i.e, SoDs of various stripes exist, immunities are absolute in nature, incorporeal completely no-sells nonmagic attacks).
That's true, but it's a lot more prevalent in Worm. I don't think I would describe almost any power in Worm as having a saving throw, for example.

[lord_khaine]

So logically, things in Worm dont have saves :P

[Anthrowhale]

Apply "Greater Humanoid Essence" and then 200-or-so castings of Avasculate, then Disintegrate?

All of these allow saves, but from the discussion so far it appears that both spamming for the 5% chance of failure and jacking the DC up sufficiently are viable strategies.

[daremetoidareyo]

I bet he doesn't have resistance to CITY DAMAGE (mwa haha)

[ATHATH]

Behemoth is intelligent. Maybe. Certainly not in a way comparable to people, but it can reason.

If that's the case, perhaps a really good and/or nigh-infinitely high Profession(Psychology) check (possibly made by an Alienist) might be able to cause the Behemoth to go suicidal or repent. You might need a source of telepathy or something, though.

[Mr Adventurer]

If it's a creature, then all that gumph about layers is meaningless - it'll just have HD and hit points (and whatever other special qualities are appropriate). If it's not a creature, it's an object, and Disintegrate won't even go for the hit points, it'll just transmute a 10' cube to dust.

[Melcar]

Specifically, Behemoth. 200 layers, each about 1.5 inches thick, each one twice as tough as the last, the outermost layer comparable to steel.

Assuming twice as tough doubles hardness and HP, the final layer (the core) will have Hardness 1.606938e+61, and HP 4.8208141e+61.

So, how does one kill, using raw physical damage?

Edit: Other than a d2 Crusader or Pun-Pun.

What is it? Any link possible?

[Segev]

What is it? Any link possible?

It's a monster from the web novel Worm. This chapter (https://parahumans.wordpress.com/2013/06/18/crushed-24-4/) starts the fight with it.