How do I speed up a spellcasting player/PC that takes too long?

[Padishar]

So one of the players in my group is a Mystic Theurge (Wizard/Cleric), so his list of prepared spells is quite extensive. He never seems to be able to decide what to cast (or if he shouldn't cast) in any given round. It's gotten to the point now at higher level that he takes as much time for his turn as the rest of the party combined. I've asked him to be more prepared and to just make a decision, even it's the wrong one, just to keep things moving. The past couple sessions I've "punished" him for being indecisive; whenever he takes too long I tell him that he delayed until the end of the round. Maybe that's too harsh, or maybe I should handle it differently, but I'm not really sure how. Suggestions?

PS. This isn't some newbie gamer we're talking about. He has plenty of experience and knowledge when it comes to D&D, 3e/3.5 in particular. I say this to let you know that it's not a matter of unfamiliarity with the spells.

[Crake]

Tell him he has every other player's turn to decide on his action, if he can't tell you what he's doing by the time it comes around to his turn, he has 1 minute before his character is just lost in analysis paralysis and misses his turn. It's harsh, but in my experience it helps problem players like that get over trying to find the best possible spell they could cast that turn and instead just do SOMETHING and move on with the game.

The other option is to just make him play something with fewer options available each round.

[XionUnborn01]

I've been this guy before and I've Dm'd for this guy before, so I get your pain.

One solution is having him make a cheat list of descriptions of his spells like you would see in the beginning of the spells section where it's listed by number. That way it makes the decision a little quicker.

Another way is to give him an actual clock. If he's taking 5 minutes to decide now, give him a clock of 3.5 minutes for the next encounter, then reduce it by 30 seconds each subsequent encounter until it's down to about 1 minute. this way he gets to learn to decide quicker in a gradual way. If he overruns his clock, tell him the first time in the encounter he delays to the end, the next time he loses his turn.

Sometimes if you're asking questions to teammates about if they need buffing or if they need assistance then it doesn't seem like its too long because you're involving the party in the decision.

Make sure that he understands that you're not picking on him but that you're trying to make the game more enjoyable for everyone.

[Ecliptic]

Get a good old fashioned sand timer and just make it a general rule that each person has the ~1 minute on the sand timer on their turn to decide what to do.

Gives a visual and sets a precedent. They can plan things during other people's turns so not really any excuse. If they run out of time and don't make any decision, they lose their turn. A turn is supposed to last all of 6 seconds, so, within the context of the game, doesn't make sense that someone is thinking out their actions for minutes anyhow ;)

[Thurbane]

Spell-cards/printout so they don't have to dig through books.
Speak to them out of game time and tell them it's causing some issues.
Egg timer.
Have a more experience player assist them on their turn.

[Dagroth]

Spell cards are a huge help.

Make sure he knows what spells he memorized or has available. Take a look at his list at the beginning of the session. If you see he's memorized Orb of Fire and you know the characters are going to be fighting Frost Giants, just remind him during the fight "you could always cast Orb of Fire at one of them..."

[Fizban]

+1 for egg timer and you have literally everyone else's turn to decide what you're doing. Any player who only pays attention on their turn is doing it wrong, but it's more obvious the more options they haven't been considering when they had the time to do so.

[Bullet06320]

Get a good old fashioned sand timer and just make it a general rule that each person has the ~1 minute on the sand timer on their turn to decide what to do.

Gives a visual and sets a precedent. They can plan things during other people's turns so not really any excuse. If they run out of time and don't make any decision, they lose their turn. A turn is supposed to last all of 6 seconds, so, within the context of the game, doesn't make sense that someone is thinking out their actions for minutes anyhow ;)

this is a good idea, making a rule for everyone, not just him, although it may because of him, its at least fair that way

also possibly allowing every player to once or twice per session take longer if necessary, there is always situations that come up the require a little book delving or group discussion or debating with the DM, so if everyone has a token to be turned in for their extra time, makes it a valuable resource to not waste, the first time he goes over, give a warning, the 2nd time, that his extra time for the game

[Gusmo]

Is he paying attention during other peoples' turns? If he's burying his head in his phone or something, then getting him to stop being so rude might be a start.

[Vizzerdrix]

You could always tell him he has nothing but magic missiles and vigors, no matter what he casts, if he cant stop being disruptive.



(Pssst. Just pretend that was blue text. Its hard to change the color on my tablet)

[Flickerdart]

If all else fails, feeblemind (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/feeblemind.htm) from an angry opponent will make his spell selection much easier. Or you can get him killed, and the player can build a warlock PC.

[TheIronGolem]

In my games, I advise casters to pick a "fallback" spell for combat. It can be a HP-damaging spell like Magic Missile, a BFC spell like Grease, whatever. Learn the details of that spell so you don't have to look up how it works during combat. If you haven't figured out which spell to cast by the time your turn comes up, just pick a target and cast your fallback spell. If you can't pick a target, use the closest legal target.

This helps remind the player that it's okay to make a suboptimal choice quickly and keep things moving, rather than put the whole game on pause for several minutes while they agonize over finding the best possible move.

[Piranha424]

I had a DM that would, when needed, impose 6 second turns. The combatants don't have minutes to decide what to do next, they have seconds. So that's what we generally had. Sometimes we got as long as a minute but generally it was between 6 and 30 seconds, frequently counted out loud or at least the last few seconds were if you took too long. Not to say that's how long you had to roll dice and such but you had that long to decide what you were up to. Makes for a nice fast pace to combat where everyone has to be ready because it sucks worse than most things to spend a round doing nothing because you couldn't decide what great thing to do.

[Rerednaw]

Plenty of options.

Player can learn the game/spells and study outside of the game. Even though there are hundreds if not thousands of spells available...IME most casters have it narrowed down for a few short lists for a given situation.

Calling out initiative (I use 3x5 cards) I say "player X is up, player Y is on deck" That way it lets the next player know he's up next.

On a player's turn if they dilly dally then they are going into delay. Once they decide what they want, they come back in. If they still cannot figure it out, then they've delayed all the way through a round and lose their turn.

+1 for spell cards. Same for summons.

Think on what to do when its NOT your turn.

[Calthropstu]

My entire group is like that actually.

But when the entire group is like that, it's actually kinda fun as we all sit there and discuss super optimal actions each player could be doing. It becomes a giant game of uber tactical D&D with them pitting their combined tactical abilities against my own.

I kinda like it.

[Segev]

I suggest for EVERY player's turn, you do a no-more-than-3-sentence description of the state of things, and ask them what they're doing. Give them no more than 6 seconds to start talking. If they have a question, answer it quickly. If they don't have a clear enough question to formulate, that counts as them not talking.

If they don't know what they're doing, or if they dither over a decision AT ALL, go to the next person's turn. Repeat. If they don't know what they're doing, keep going. After somebody acts (including your own antagonists), go back to those who've been skipped and run through them again.

It probably won't take more than 1 or 2 people having their turn delayed to get people on board. You can be lenient, but don't let it extend if you don't judge that they are on the ball. The time limit isn't about spitting out everything at once, but about clearly having a decision made and STARTING to articulate it.

[Gruftzwerg]

The player needs to do some homework. But the issue is, that he first needs to learn to be able to do it. So my suggestion would be a small training boot camp for said player.

1) Read known Spells together:

He needs to be aware of all his spells and be able to "read rule text", which is a very difficult discipline even for veterans. But he should have simple knowledge about keywords and rules about reading rules..^^

2) Give him some basic tactical knowledge when you cast which kind of spell (buff, utility, offensive, beginning of fight options, end of fight options, utility, outside of combat spells, synergies)

3) Play some mini quiz-games with him. (again, outside the d&d sessions).
Describe a small scenario (solo or with teammates) and ask him for his spell selection & strategy.

Do this exercise for about 15-30min. a day for about max. a week (don't leave to many time between the exercise) and your player should be a real competed caster.

[Geddy2112]

I am going to echo "make them do something quickly or skip them"

When I DM, I give players about 10 seconds to start describing what they are doing, or I skip them. Our table has 6 players, we play pathfinder with open material all over the interwebs, all have smartphones or use our laptops/tablets to hold our character sheets and google rules as well as wifi where we play. There is absolutely no excuse to just sit there and not know what to do, or lookup every single spell you have prepared that day and weigh your options.

If you play a class, you are responsible for knowing how to play your freaking class. You are responsible for 1 character-you prepared a spell? Know how to cast it. Built around grappling? Know how to do it. Are a spontaneous caster with spells known? You seriously better know what they do.

[Fizban]

I suggest for EVERY player's turn, you do a no-more-than-3-sentence description of the state of things, and ask them what they're doing. Give them no more than 6 seconds to start talking. If they have a question, answer it quickly. If they don't have a clear enough question to formulate, that counts as them not talking.
I disagree with the first part, as the DM's idea of the state of things will likely be based on the last few actions and may miss vital information or imply the character shouldn't know things they were paying attention to. Skip that, go straight to second and let them ask three sentences or so worth of questions for free. If they need much more than that or it's clear they're trying to get a recap of the entire last round, skip along.

[weckar]

To a degree I agree with the people saying that they should figure out what to do during other people's turns. Problem with that is that the state of the fight changes every turn, so what was a valid choice two initiatives ago may not be now.

[Stealth Marmot]

The past couple sessions I've "punished" him for being indecisive; whenever he takes too long I tell him that he delayed until the end of the round. Maybe that's too harsh, or maybe I should handle it differently, but I'm not really sure how. Suggestions?

PS. This isn't some newbie gamer we're talking about. He has plenty of experience and knowledge when it comes to D&D, 3e/3.5 in particular. I say this to let you know that it's not a matter of unfamiliarity with the spells.

This isn't too harsh. It actually isn't as big a problem as you might think. If a character actually does have as many spells as a Mystic Theurge, keeping track of them all and more to the point, remembering them all under pressure would actually be a problem in character. Press them for time, make it so that if he can't recall the spells he has to make a decision or he makes no decision. The pressure of it all should be part of the class, and the challenge of coming up with the best spell should be rewarded by them knowing they made the right decision under pressure.

And like all things, this can be made better with a Queen song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a01QQZyl-_I

[Segev]

I disagree with the first part, as the DM's idea of the state of things will likely be based on the last few actions and may miss vital information or imply the character shouldn't know things they were paying attention to. Skip that, go straight to second and let them ask three sentences or so worth of questions for free. If they need much more than that or it's clear they're trying to get a recap of the entire last round, skip along.

If the player acts on only what the GM framed, then at least he's not acting on bad information. If the player acts on something that is going on but the GM didn't include, it still isn't a problem unless the GM has, himself, not only forgotten to mention it, but forgotten it was a thing at all. It also shows the player was paying attention. If the player acts on something that the GM didn't mention/include and also is obsolete or incorrect, the player should be corrected quickly and given a brief chance to alter his action, because he wasn't paying attention AND ignored the GM's framing of the situation.

The GM should be making sure that any framing he does includes anything directly relevant to the player himself, too. If there are two goblins and an ogre bearing down on him, that should be mentioned, even if they didn't have anything to do with the last player's actions. The GM's mental model of what's going on IS what's going on, unless he's corrected of any errors in his memory by others.

[Calthropstu]

This isn't too harsh. It actually isn't as big a problem as you might think. If a character actually does have as many spells as a Mystic Theurge, keeping track of them all and more to the point, remembering them all under pressure would actually be a problem in character. Press them for time, make it so that if he can't recall the spells he has to make a decision or he makes no decision. The pressure of it all should be part of the class, and the challenge of coming up with the best spell should be rewarded by them knowing they made the right decision under pressure.

And like all things, this can be made better with a Queen song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a01QQZyl-_I

Let's be fair here, it may be a problem in character, but the character he has made would likely be better at it than he is. Keep in mind, we are generally 10-15 int/wis/cha people playing 20-30 int/wis/cha characters. A bit hard to do especially in a crunch. Our character will probably be able to recall the best spell for the job. It has the training, the knowledge and the mental reflexes to pull it off.

[Segev]

Let's be fair here, it may be a problem in character, but the character he has made would likely be better at it than he is. Keep in mind, we are generally 10-15 int/wis/cha people playing 20-30 int/wis/cha characters. A bit hard to do especially in a crunch. Our character will probably be able to recall the best spell for the job. It has the training, the knowledge and the mental reflexes to pull it off.

Certainly. But that doesn't change that spending too long on your turn is not fun for anybody else. So find ways to streamline it. It probably calls for paying close attention during everybody else's turn (which a lot of "take forever to make decisions" players aren't doing) and deciding as each turn progresses what 2-3 of his best options are, based on a few contingencies. "IF Bob is still grappled on my turn..." "If the ogre hasn't been taken out yet on my turn..." etc.

[Stealth Marmot]

Let's be fair here, it may be a problem in character, but the character he has made would likely be better at it than he is. Keep in mind, we are generally 10-15 int/wis/cha people playing 20-30 int/wis/cha characters. A bit hard to do especially in a crunch. Our character will probably be able to recall the best spell for the job. It has the training, the knowledge and the mental reflexes to pull it off.

In addition to what Segev says I want to say, sure you can justify time compression/decompression as having a very high intellect, but even at an insanely high intellect and/or wisdom, deducting and deciding in less than 6 seconds will still be stressful. My point however, is that it adds challenge for the player, and challenge can be fun. As a player, he has to think fast and remember things, and adding stakes and a challenge and not allowing him all the time he wants to make the decision makes it possible for him to screw up. However, if he manages to make a good decision despite the pressure, it feels rewarding.

Maybe the player would prefer otherwise, but I think a verteran player (as was suggested) would like the idea of there being pressure, plus they also have reason to think ahead when not in battle, shortly before the battle, and between turns. It's a good way to keep them engaged.

[Calthropstu]

In addition to what Segev says I want to say, sure you can justify time compression/decompression as having a very high intellect, but even at an insanely high intellect and/or wisdom, deducting and deciding in less than 6 seconds will still be stressful. My point however, is that it adds challenge for the player, and challenge can be fun. As a player, he has to think fast and remember things, and adding stakes and a challenge and not allowing him all the time he wants to make the decision makes it possible for him to screw up. However, if he manages to make a good decision despite the pressure, it feels rewarding.

Maybe the player would prefer otherwise, but I think a verteran player (as was suggested) would like the idea of there being pressure, plus they also have reason to think ahead when not in battle, shortly before the battle, and between turns. It's a good way to keep them engaged.

Which is fair. My players stay engaged with long tactical discussions... which is also fine. Although, maybe I should ask them if they prefer the pressure cooker method you guys use. It could be interesting.

Edit: As an aside, when I played my oracle (and pfs sorcerer) who specialized in summon monster I was told that I had to have all sorts of things so that my turns wouldn't take too long. I got so good at handling summons, that my turns were faster than almost anyone else's. Place the models, have the book open to the proper pages, have the dice ready using multiple sets to signify each different attack, calculate damage, and end.

And then my party would take half an hour to get back to me. My turn would take a minute, the rest of the party would take several... even the simple melee characters would sometimes take longer than me who was controlling half a dozen models per battle.

So I understand where you are coming from. If there's no interaction with the other players, it can be boring. But tactical discussions in themselves can be fun.

[Inevitability]

How does the player feel about holding up the game?