Junctioning Espers (FF8 + 5e D&D) (WIP)

[Deleted]

So I was watching AGDQ's Final Fantasy VIII speedrun and started wondering how a Final Fantasy Junctioning system could work under the 5e rules.

So... I made this. Potential to be its own off shoot system of 5e.

http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/Syt6X2x9e

First off, I have no clue why the GF's were never called Espers in FF 8, I love that game but that is the silliest thing in the entire game.

Secondly, before you start bashing VIII's use of weird plot or amnesia... I just have to say that MANY Final Fantasy games use both and it really isn't Final Fantasy without it.

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Anyhow... The idea is that the races + background can be usable for a character. The first thing that happens in a game would be some plot and then lead the players to be able to gain an Esper to junction to.

From there you don't gain a ton of powers, you take what you have and figure out how to go from there. Both magic and attacks are at will, mostly.

Numbers have been drastically simplified.

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I need a lot of work on this but any insights would be much appreciated!


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I've been working on a IX + XIII system and in going to merge this work with that. The summoner will be able to use MP to summon + junction. They will use the summon's stat block but also their passive abilities (but not their other job features...).

[ravencroft0]

I love Final Fantasy and you have a cool concept. If I am understanding this right, your background is your class, and your class features come from your GF. OK. Not bad. While you are trying to make this as 5e as possible, this writeup feels all over the place. The 5e is there, but it seems as if you are combining aspects of the 3.x and 4th editions as well. There are way too many feats that can be attained by 11th level, unless 11th is equivalent to 20th. If that's the case, you'll have to create enemy NPCs, as well, to balance your encounters.

I love the concept of converting FF to DnD, and I think you're onto something really cool. You're numbers still need some streamlining if you still want it to be 5e friendly. As it stands, your junctioning system still feels wonky. Keep at it, though. I have your page bookmarked and would love to see where you end up.

[Deleted]

I love Final Fantasy and you have a cool concept. If I am understanding this right, your background is your class, and your class features come from your GF. OK. Not bad. While you are trying to make this as 5e as possible, this writeup feels all over the place. The 5e is there, but it seems as if you are combining aspects of the 3.x and 4th editions as well. There are way too many feats that can be attained by 11th level, unless 11th is equivalent to 20th. If that's the case, you'll have to create enemy NPCs, as well, to balance your encounters.

I love the concept of converting FF to DnD, and I think you're onto something really cool. You're numbers still need some streamlining if you still want it to be 5e friendly. As it stands, your junctioning system still feels wonky. Keep at it, though. I have your page bookmarked and would love to see where you end up.

To be fair, 3e and 4e is really just the same game but "backwards" and 5e is a simplified version of both. I get what you mean though, I just don't see it as an issue though as both 3e and 4e are the same game (you can build most of 4e with variant 3e rules which makes me wonder if you could get around the 4e OGL issues by referencing the 3e srd... But that's a separate thing all together).

If it feels wonky, it's mostly because this was initially made while watching a youtube video and has little editing (from what I recall, definitely very little feedback). I've been too busy with life to dedicate time to tabletop gaming recently, but I should be back in the swing of things soon.



Feats: I want "feats" to be the primary source of all things you gain. Feats pretty much replace class features and feats from 3e, 4e, and 5e. This puts everyone on the same page in terms of what you gain and how powerful (mostly) they will be. Everything will eventually have the Extraordinary or Supernatural tag which will denote if it is non-magical or magical.
If you don't want as many options or feats, you could always just advance your numbers and not the number of feats you gain. Will probably have a fast, medium, and slow progression for feats. As long as everyone (players) has the same number, things should work out well for party balance.
Enemies would be made like 4e monsters. Have them set at low, medium, and high level but let them be adjustable and each have special features... But keep them simple to use (so they won't be built like PCs).


Thanks! I'm replaying FF 8 and FF 13 (depending if the wife is on the computer or not lol) again and between that and having some time away from this may help me work some things out. Thanks for the thoughts, I'll think of them more later.

[JBPuffin]

This is madness...and looks like every attempt at game design I start and invariably never finish, so it's off to a good start :smallbiggrin:. I wonder about the Con/Int/Wis split - why those three? AC replacing Dex and being level-based makes sense, but since you've removed ability scores either from the game entirely or at least from the pre-gens I'm not sure how far this goes. GM-based proficiency...I hesitate b/c reading so much about game design twists your head around, but I don't see major problems with it since background should be the major decider (and if it's not, there'd better be something else). Proficiency bonus at 1/2 level+2 isn't far off from further-inflated 4e numbers, I guess, but is probably the least appealing aspect of this to me. That and its lack of polish, but it's a first draft so I can't say much in that vein. All in all, Deleted, this looks downright nut-balls, but you have my attention (a lot like Pixar movies, honestly :smallamused:).

Oh, and because I can't let this go unsaid - I'd love to see the house rules that turn 3.5 into 4e, because then I can figure out how Eclipse: Codex Persona translates into later editions :smallbiggrin:. Shimeran is sort of working on "3.5 SRD 4e", except they're starting from Pathfinder.

[Deleted]

This is madness...

THIS. IS. FINAL FANTASY *kicks an imaginary messenger down a pit*



...and looks like every attempt at game design I start and invariably never finish, so it's off to a good start :smallbiggrin:.

Thank you :smallbiggrin:



I wonder about the Con/Int/Wis split - why those three? AC replacing Dex and being level-based makes sense, but since you've removed ability scores either from the game entirely or at least from the pre-gens I'm not sure how far this goes. GM-based proficiency...I hesitate b/c reading so much about game design twists your head around, but I don't see major problems with it since background should be the major decider (and if it's not, there'd better be something else).


Well, you wouldn't ever really have ability scores, just bonuses to specific rolls. You could call them ability scores but you could just call them saving throws and ability/skill checks. Your background, race, and esper will just boost specific rolls. I think I want to keep these bonuses flexible... Like +3 to weapons goes toward any weapon you want to use, as long as your background gave you training in said weapon.

I'm thinking of removing Int and just having a physical save bonus and a mental save bonus (Fortitude and Will) and throwing Int saves into the skills to be challenges (which is where charisma saves went). Make a decent sized skill list with learning flexibility.



Proficiency bonus at 1/2 level+2 isn't far off from further-inflated 4e numbers, I guess, but is probably the least appealing aspect of this to me. That and its lack of polish, but it's a first draft so I can't say much in that vein. All in all, Deleted, this looks downright nut-balls, but you have my attention (a lot like Pixar movies, honestly :smallamused:).


The numbers I chose line up with the math in 5e for the most part. At level 4 in this you would have a +6 bonus to weapon attacks if you have Ifrit, if you were a barbarian in 5e (and with a +4 str) then you would have a +6 to your attack at level 4 (technically you could have a +7 at level 4 if you strength optimized or rolled well). Level 11 is the highest level for this so far, I'm not making this a 20 level thing since I see no need to inflate it more than 11 levels (i forgot about saying this in my previous responses).

So, the numbers aren't really all that inflated compared to 5e. They are just coming from a single source. This allows a person to fluff where those numbers are coming from. Yeah two players may have the same attack bonus but they are both free to fluff their characters their own way... Maybe one character is the generic strong man weapon user while the other player is purely luck based and actually has no real skill with a great sword, things just always seem to line up as she attempts to swing the sword. Your skills can help flesh this out.

Now that I think about it, the highest bonus you can get in this, so far at least, is a +10 while in 5e you can get a +11 (well in 5e... +14 technically if you have advantage as advantage is usually +3.333 and aaaaactually +17 with expertise but expertise is a broken ability that isn't going to be in this in that capacity).

[/quote]



Oh, and because I can't let this go unsaid - I'd love to see the house rules that turn 3.5 into 4e, because then I can figure out how Eclipse: Codex Persona translates into later editions :smallbiggrin:. Shimeran is sort of working on "3.5 SRD 4e", except they're starting from Pathfinder.

I wasn't actually talking specifically about houserules. A lot of 4e comes directly from 3e. The martials are bastardized version of Tome of Battle and magic users are a weird mix of a lot of things.

Hybrid Characters (4e) are essentially gestalt characters in 3e: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm

4e Skill System (with some tinkering with the "modifiers"): http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/alternativeSkillSystems.htm

Action Points: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/actionPoints.htm

Fort, Ref, and Will defense: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/playersRollAllTheDice.htm#savingThrowsAndSaveScore s (really, the saving throw system in 4we is just "players roll all the dice")

At-Will, Encounter, and Daily Magic: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/rechargeMagic.htm

Rituals (more or less the same idea, 4e just widely expanded on it): http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/incantations.htm

oh, and just because this is cool: http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/variantCampaigns.htm

Edit: Oh, and thank you again :)

[JBPuffin]

THIS. IS. FINAL FANTASY *kicks an imaginary messenger down a pit*
This is the appropriate response to all situations :smallwink:.


Well, you wouldn't ever really have ability scores, just bonuses to specific rolls. You could call them ability scores but you could just call them saving throws and ability/skill checks. Your background, race, and esper will just boost specific rolls. I think I want to keep these bonuses flexible... Like +3 to weapons goes toward any weapon you want to use, as long as your background gave you training in said weapon.

So, the numbers aren't really all that inflated compared to 5e. They are just coming from a single source. This allows a person to fluff where those numbers are coming from. Yeah two players may have the same attack bonus but they are both free to fluff their characters their own way... Maybe one character is the generic strong man weapon user while the other player is purely luck based and actually has no real skill with a great sword, things just always seem to line up as she attempts to swing the sword. Your skills can help flesh this out.
Okay, this helps put things into perspective. Would something like Grod's setup for Ability-Less 5e (Proficiency, Half-Proficiency, No Proficiency) be useful to you? Every background might have, like, a couple skills they're wholly Proficient in, a couple Half-Proficiencies, and the rest basically go up at molasses speed.

I really want to scratch 5e's weapon and armor rules and replace them with a variant of Gamma World 7e's; considering everyone's a special snowflake these days, I don't see a reason to hold on to distinguishing between studded leather and padded or spears and tridents anymore.


I'm thinking of removing Int and just having a physical save bonus and a mental save bonus (Fortitude and Will) and throwing Int saves into the skills to be challenges (which is where charisma saves went). Make a decent sized skill list with learning flexibility.
I like this plan.


I wasn't actually talking specifically about houserules. A lot of 4e comes directly from 3e. The martials are bastardized version of Tome of Battle and magic users are a weird mix of a lot of things.
Oh. You know, I kinda notice that, but I hadn't really thought of them as that closely related; between UA and Saga Star Wars, almost everything is there...


Edit: Oh, and thank you again :)
No problemo.

[Deleted]

This is the appropriate response to all situations :smallwink:.

I really need to keep a gif of that scene around so I can edit it to fit different situations.




Okay, this helps put things into perspective. Would something like Grod's setup for Ability-Less 5e (Proficiency, Half-Proficiency, No Proficiency) be useful to you? Every background might have, like, a couple skills they're wholly Proficient in, a couple Half-Proficiencies, and the rest basically go up at molasses speed.

That sounds a lot like... http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?475101-Ability-Skills-(reworking-ability-scores)-(3-X-4e-5e)-(WIP)-(PEACH) , which is where I got some help with another project I never truly finished (for the same reasons as above). [/quote]



I really want to scratch 5e's weapon and armor rules and replace them with a variant of Gamma World 7e's; considering everyone's a special snowflake these days, I don't see a reason to hold on to distinguishing between studded leather and padded or spears and tridents anymore.


You really should as it allows for less rules that are just going to be fiddly and cause "omg the rules says this..." type scenarios. I've seen so many times where people flip out over something minor that making those rules more free form would solve. It may not be a huge issue, but I think allowing more creativity on the player's part is a good thing.

Also, I don't think the snowflake thing is really a "these days" sort of issue. At the very least, people were trying to be snowflakes back in 2e which was like over 20 years ago....



I like this plan.


First thought on skills...

Skills, for now, will be broken down into Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, and Charisma. Wisdom skills can go into Intelligence (like medicine... seriously, that should have been Int) or charisma (handle animal). Wisdom isn't really something you do, just something that is, much like constitution.

Normally using a skill would be some sort of action or just be unable to be done, however with proficiency, you will be able to do special things or use a bonus action to do something that would normally take an action.

Charisma Skills would be spammable, but if you failed the challenge then the creature or animal that beat you in the challenge would have some sort of an advantage going forward.

Maybe something like this...

Racial Skills: Add half proficiency, this shows that you have a natural advantage in the area.
Background Skills: Add proficiency, this shows you actively use these skills in your everyday life.
All Other Skills: Don't add any bonus as you don't really have the training or do you typically use these skills.

If your background gives you access to a racial skill, you may improve upon your racial skill (full prof) and gain another background skill (this background skill would have half prof).

Strength


Break: Overcome resistance to non-magical damage (bonus action) when you strike a creature or item.
Climb: Attempt to climb faster (bonus action) or stop yourself from falling when you fall near two walls or when there is something to grab onto during your fall (reaction) .
Jump: Attempt to jump further or higher (bonus action)
Lift: Attempt to lift beyond your means (bonus action), may be used to reduce penalties of improvised or "unmanageable" weapons (bonus action).
Wrestle (Special): Attempt to perform or resist a wrestling move. To perform a wrestling move you must use a bonus action. For each Strength Skill you have proficiency in, you gain access to a basic combat option. Proficiency in the wrestle skill gives you access to one basic combat option of your choice from Shove (Back) or Grapple basic combat options.


Dexterity


Balance: Make a balance attempt to not fall prone whenever an effect would cause you to fall prone (reaction)
Escape Artist: Attempt to break out of some sort of mundane or magical confinement or hold (bonus action) such as shackles, a prison cell, a creature's grapple, or magical hand that is holding you down.
Hide: Attempt to not be seen or heard by creatures. You may use a bonus action to dash.
Sleight of Hand: Attempt to take an item or object from another creature.
Tinker:


Intelligence

Crafting: Recall or find information pertaining to the study of items.
Engineering/Physics: Recall or find information pertaining to the study of building bridges, houses, traps, or other mechanical objects and how they relate to the world around them.
History: Recall or find information pertaining to the study of history.
Medicine: Recall or find information pertaining to the study of medicine.
Nature/Biology: Recall or find information pertaining to the study of natural animals, nature, and natural phenomenons.
Occult: Recall or find information pertaining to the study of creatures, magic, and other weird stuff that doesn't fit into the natural order.
Religion: Recall or find information pertaining to the study of items and creatures that are part of mainstream religions.
Spellcraft: Recall or find information pertaining to the study of arcane or divine magic and magic items.


Charisma


Animal Handling: The ability to manipulate an animal (beast) with or without an actual language (bonus action).
Deception: The ability to lie to a sentient creature (bonus action).
Intimidation: The ability to scare a sentient creature (bonus action).
Performance: The ability to appease a sentient creature (bonus action).
Persuasion: The ability to change the attitude of a sentient creature in order to see your point of view (bonus action).



Edit:

I'm thinking of just not having racial skills.

Background Skills: Choose 4 to have proficiency in, the others on your background list will have half proficiency added to them. All other skills will not add your proficiency bonus.

[Bruno Carvalho]

This looks quite interesting. Deleted, would you like to help writing a FF8 book for another RPG?

[Deleted]

This looks quite interesting. Deleted, would you like to help writing a FF8 book for another RPG?

Sure, what RPG did you have in mind?

[Bruno Carvalho]

My own Final Fantasy RPG - link in signature.