Eidolon AC question

[Hikarizu]

So an eidlon starts with 2 natural ac, the 1 point evolution grants him 2 more, and when the summoner gets to level 2 he gets 2 more from table. Am I getting this right, because with Mage Armor he hits 20 AC without dex at level 2?

[Coretron03]

Yes, you got that right. They can have really AC at early levels with buff spells.

[Hikarizu]

No wonder synthesist are banned by default most of the time.

[Coretron03]

No wonder synthesist are banned by default most of the time.

But... But...
Eh, what can I do. The synthensist summoner is directly worse then the regular summoner in pretty much every way. They have worse action econmy, less feats, less ability score increases, the only real benefit is gainig str (already a can be a dumpstat) and dex as a dumpstat.. I mean, their good but thats because the summoner is a good class, not because your a synthensist summoner.

[Hikarizu]

Optimization floor is really high. It can be a problem with groups not focusing on it.

[Coretron03]

How is it any higher then a normal summoner? I'd like to know because I think their floor is lower because they have less inherent power.

[Krazzman]

To give some other point of view:

The Summoner (even the unchained one) is banned at our Table (Weekend Group) because of his main mode of operation: Summoning stuff. We (they, since we joined later) that the game just gets more sloggish with summons and as such summon monster and Summon nature ally are "softbanned".

In our weekday group we currently have only core + base (- Vigilante) as allowed classes. Rogue and Monk are required to take the unchained Variant unless some 100% required archetype will be taken. We aren't decided on the Barbarian and I seriously doubt that we would be getting any meaningful difference between Summoner and Unchained Summoner at our table.

From my experience the Synthesist Summoner is often the only Summoner Archetype allowed at least from the houserules I saw of table banning the Summoner.

[Coretron03]

Banning (or replacing via unchained) the summoner class isn't unreasonable as the class can slow down play a a master summoner and it can be easy to overshadow people in a low OP group. It was just that he singled out the synthensist summoner being better directly which I have a personal pet peeve with.

Synthensist summoner is basicly a melee combatant with awesome spells and custombility thats IMO more reasonable then the base summoner class.

[grarrrg]

No wonder synthesist are banned by default most of the time.

They are also a fair-sized rules headache.
But remember that in order to optimize one thing, other things usually suffer.

But -most- of the time they are a straight down-grade from (most) other Summoner options.

[Hikarizu]

I have him optimized for lumberjacking with +20 at first level with guidance and the skill focus evolution. Also he can take 12 instead of 10. That's 32 profession roll on first level. And I haven't min-maxed him to the ground with 10 str and dex instead of 7. With toughness I have at second level 23 HP +13 temp, 2 BAB, +4 Str mod and 21 AC. I was just trying to build a tough, sturdy lumberjack and ended with the most powerful melee in our group. I didn't say the floor is higher than normal summoner, just that it was really high. Maybe he falls behind at higher levels.