Starting as Level 1 Shapeshift Druid, what level would you go Barbarian?

[Victobud]

Starting as Level 1 Shapeshift Druid, what level would you go Barbarian?

First off there is so much material in 3.5e and I haven't played in years so im sure there is cool spells/feats and stuff im forgetting or dont even know about.

I had in my mind I wanted to play a Bear Barbarian and level 1 druid shapeshift fits my background.
Also any tips/tricks people have would be great.

[eggynack]

Immediately or never, I think. A shapeshift druid dip is decently alright, if you're weirdly itemless (you can't really use items in combination with shapeshift), but if you're going to go deep on druid, especially shapeshift druid, it's after magical power, and if you're after magical power you should just keep being a druid. If you want to be a barbarian, stabbing stuff all the time, then mostly picking up melee oriented dips is the way to go. My sigged handbook has a lot of the tips and tricks you'd want associated with the druid, though I must admit that shapeshift is weirdly not open to optimization. Doesn't have any of the support wild shape has, including all of the stuff you'd ordinarily use to mitigate wild shape's downside, and you lose two major features you'd want to augment, so all my information on the animal companion and wild shape is useless. The spell list should absolutely be helpful though.

[Victobud]

Immediately or never, I think. A shapeshift druid dip is decently alright, if you're weirdly itemless (you can't really use items in combination with shapeshift), but if you're going to go deep on druid, especially shapeshift druid, it's after magical power, and if you're after magical power you should just keep being a druid. If you want to be a barbarian, stabbing stuff all the time, then mostly picking up melee oriented dips is the way to go. My sigged handbook has a lot of the tips and tricks you'd want associated with the druid, though I must admit that shapeshift is weirdly not open to optimization. Doesn't have any of the support wild shape has, including all of the stuff you'd ordinarily use to mitigate wild shape's downside, and you lose two major features you'd want to augment, so all my information on the animal companion and wild shape is useless. The spell list should absolutely be helpful though.

Ya I was sort of thinking no barb at all. Just an idea I had

[tyckspoon]

Consider just sticking with Druid and using the Druidic Avenger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druidVariantDruidicAve nger) variant. Gets you Rage, lets you continue progressing spells to use when you're not in combat (I guess you could use them in combat, but I'm feeling like you want to be doing Shapeshift-Rage-SMASHANDTEAR as your combat thing.) It's not mechanically great, but it'll work with the flavor. Do note that you won't actually get to turn into something that resembles a proper bear mechanically until you hit level 8 with Shapeshift Druid, and if you're going to stay in Druid that long you may as well just stay in Druid. Maybe look into Warshaper to add some more punch to your shapeshifts.

Other things that could be a Bear-favored naturalist kind of character:
Totemist, from Magic of Incarnum. Forms spiritual attachments that grant him the powers of a variety of animals and monsters. Has a prestige class option that melds it with Barbarian. Downside: You have to get your head around Incarnum mechanics. The book is not well laid out for helping you do that.

Just Barbarian, with the Bear Totem and/or Spirit Bear Totem alternate class features (Unearthed Arcana and Complete Champion, respectively.) Can go into Bear Warrior later for actual Being A Bear, possibly with Nature's Warrior or Warshaper as later classes if you don't want to go back to Barbarian.

Cleric with appropriate deity/domains, and possibly some Devotion feats; Animal Devotion is particularly relevant here. One of the options gives a Strength bonus and makes you grow fur. It's named after apes, but no reason it couldn't be bears.

[Fouredged Sword]

I would MAYBE take 2 levels for pounce, but probably not at all. IF you are going barbarian I would do so after the dire animal shift and flow into warshaper and be a weird fighter.

The thing is that you are going to want the Bite of the X spells and want them as soon as you can get them. They provide the bonus to hit and damage you need to keep up with magic weapons. Without druidic self-buffing you will fall behind and you cannot afford to lose spellcasting.

Do take the spontaneous rejuvenation ACF. It gives you a use for your spell slots that you can activate while shifted.

[eggynack]

Consider just sticking with Druid and using the Druidic Avenger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druidVariantDruidicAve nger) variant.
Avenger and shapeshift both trade away the animal companion.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I dunno, something like Shapeshift Druid 1/Barbarian 4/Warshaper* 4 could be neat.

*I'd argue that you can qualify under "Wild shape or similar class feature"

[Zombulian]

I would MAYBE take 2 levels for pounce, but probably not at all. IF you are going barbarian I would do so after the dire animal shift and flow into warshaper and be a weird fighter.

The thing is that you are going to want the Bite of the X spells and want them as soon as you can get them. They provide the bonus to hit and damage you need to keep up with magic weapons. Without druidic self-buffing you will fall behind and you cannot afford to lose spellcasting.

Do take the spontaneous rejuvenation ACF. It gives you a use for your spell slots that you can activate while shifted.

Why take 2 levels when you can get pounce in 1?

[eggynack]

I dunno, something like Shapeshift Druid 1/Barbarian 4/Warshaper* 4 could be neat.

*I'd argue that you can qualify under "Wild shape or similar class feature"
Yeah, that's what I was indicating with my opening post. Going further then druid 1 and less far than all the druid seems kinda pointless. I'm a bit doubtful of the utility of the whole shapeshift druid as melee dip strategy though. That you can't use items all that well while shapeshifted, or that you otherwise need to make use of serious workarounds for this only decent bonus, reduces the potency quite a bit. I guess you could be in it strictly for warshaper, but I think there are other and better ways to go about that.

[Troacctid]

I can definitely see going Barbarian 1/Druid X to pick up Pounce and either Rage or Whirling Frenzy, and running it as a melee-focused build (that also has spells because why not).

Some items can be used on a Shapeshift build. Pearls of Power, Metamagic Rods, Ring of the Beast, etc. Anything that boosts spellcasting works totally normally, since you'll never be shapeshifted when you cast spells.

[Victobud]

I would MAYBE take 2 levels for pounce, but probably not at all. IF you are going barbarian I would do so after the dire animal shift and flow into warshaper and be a weird fighter.

The thing is that you are going to want the Bite of the X spells and want them as soon as you can get them. They provide the bonus to hit and damage you need to keep up with magic weapons. Without druidic self-buffing you will fall behind and you cannot afford to lose spellcasting.

Do take the spontaneous rejuvenation ACF. It gives you a use for your spell slots that you can activate while shifted.

I was looking at spontaneous rejuvenation, I think I will take this.


I dunno, something like Shapeshift Druid 1/Barbarian 4/Warshaper* 4 could be neat.

*I'd argue that you can qualify under "Wild shape or similar class feature"


Yeah, that's what I was indicating with my opening post. Going further then druid 1 and less far than all the druid seems kinda pointless. I'm a bit doubtful of the utility of the whole shapeshift druid as melee dip strategy though. That you can't use items all that well while shapeshifted, or that you otherwise need to make use of serious workarounds for this only decent bonus, reduces the potency quite a bit. I guess you could be in it strictly for warshaper, but I think there are other and better ways to go about that.

I see a lot about going warshaper could be interesting.


I can definitely see going Barbarian 1/Druid X to pick up Pounce and either Rage or Whirling Frenzy, and running it as a melee-focused build (that also has spells because why not).

Some items can be used on a Shapeshift build. Pearls of Power, Metamagic Rods, Ring of the Beast, etc. Anything that boosts spellcasting works totally normally, since you'll never be shapeshifted when you cast spells.

Barb 1/Druid X sounds interesting, we are starting at level 3 so it fits with my background still.

[Troacctid]

I was looking at spontaneous rejuvenation, I think I will take this.
Nah, stick with spontaneous summoning, it's just better. You can switch forms at will as a swift action, so just un-shift if you need to cast it and shift again next turn. No sweat.

[Victobud]

Nah, stick with spontaneous summoning, it's just better. You can switch forms at will as a swift action, so just un-shift if you need to cast it and shift again next turn. No sweat.

OK i'll keep this in mind.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I was looking at spontaneous rejuvenation, I think I will take this.
Nah. I like Shapeshift as a general Druid nerf, but Spontaneous Rejuvenation is pretty much totally worthless.

[Troacctid]

Especially since once you get 4th level spells, spontaneously summoning unicorns is just so much better.

[Victobud]

Next question.

Barb or Druid first?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Next question.

Barb or Druid first?
Barbarian. Both give you 4+Int skill points, so the benefits are pretty marginal, but Barbarian will give you more hit points.

[Dagroth]

Next question.

Barb or Druid first?

The answer, when multiclassing, is always "The class with the most skill points".

Except when using ToB. Sometimes you want to hold off if it will start you with a higher Initiator Level.