How does one gain divine rank 0, from a game mechanic perspective?

[Incarnate]

Hey everyone.

As the subject reads, however let me elaborate a little bit on that. I have been reading in the Deities & Demigods, and that specific subject seems quite vaguely detailed.
Any actual rules or guidelines on the subject, rather than just having to "wing it"?

Thanks in advance.

/Inc.

[Buufreak]

Hey everyone.

As the subject reads, however let me elaborate a little bit on that. I have been reading in the Deities & Demigods, and that specific subject seems quite vaguely detailed.
Any actual rules or guidelines on the subject, rather than just having to "wing it"?

Thanks in advance.

/Inc.

Be a dragon. Take that dragon specific prestige class that grants divinity. And even then, the text makes it somewhat iffy.

[Venger]

all you need to do is get a few hundred people to worship you as a god, assuming you can't retroactively change your parentage to become half-divine.

[Flickerdart]

Get a DR0 creature to manifest fission, fuse with the clone, manifest astral seed, then kill yourself. You will be reborn in the body you had when you manifested astral seed, which has DR0.

Then you get smote by the real gods due to being an uppity mortal.

[Vizzerdrix]

I know Cas became one using his own willpower. But he has a moose head now. Not sure if that would work for a player.

[tyckspoon]

Very, very setting dependent. Common ways to do it involve: Becoming the center of worship of a certain number of mortals. Slaying a god and stealing/absorbing/Santa Clause-ing their power. Performing great heroic acts and rising to godship by acclaim of the other gods. Having a god as one of your parents or other near ancestors. Diplomancing or otherwise convincing the settings arbiter of godhood that you are worthy of being a god/more worthy of controlling a domain than an existing god.

All of that is Ask Your DM dependent, tho. As far as actual rules go, there are only two ways I'm aware of: The dragon prestige class that gives you the traits of Divine Rank 0 as you go through it (it's 12 levels long and has entry requirements that require being an Epic or near-Epic dragon already, so this takes a while), and I'm not even sure if that gives you actual Divine Rank or just abilities similar to it.. and having an existing god invest a divine rank in you to serve as a proxy. Now, because D&D magic is incredibly silly, that last one is actually doable and abuse-able; create a copy of a deity somehow (everybody's favorite Ice Assassin works), then command it to make you a proxy. There you go, you're a DR 1 god. Now prepare to spend the rest of your existence hiding, running, or fighting *everybody*, because creating new copies of gods is way up there on the Thou Shalt Not Mess With The World scale.

[Âmesang]

Cast Karsus' avatar, reenact Zagyg's "God Trap" beneath Castle Greyhawk, or perhaps read Vecna's diary.

Not that any of these methods would be easy, but it could lead to some fun times. :smalltongue:

[Necroticplague]

There's a template that grants DR0. It's even, technically, LA: As base creature. Unfortunately, it requires being a level 10 fighter, barbarian, ranger, or paladin.

[Inevitability]

There's a template that grants DR0. It's even, technically, LA: As base creature. Unfortunately, it requires being a level 10 fighter, barbarian, ranger, or paladin.

Level 10 fighter is basically your default intimidator with an extra bonus feat: it's not strong, but can be made into a decent tier 4, especially if a nice PrC gets added on (try qualifying for Ur Priest!).

[Bonzai]

There's a template that grants DR0. It's even, technically, LA: As base creature. Unfortunately, it requires being a level 10 fighter, barbarian, ranger, or paladin.

Which template is this?

[tyckspoon]

Which template is this?

Einherjar. It's Product Identity/referring to a real-world concept, so it's not in the divine stuff that made it to the SRD. It does indeed grant DR 0 with relatively soft requirements, and it's an acquired template, so it could theoretically get applied to a character in-game. There's no way given to force it to happen, tho - it's the template given to those warriors who are chosen by the valkyries to become part of Odin's eternal fighting-and-carousing-hall, eventually to join the battle against the giants at Ragnarok. Fairly tightly tied to a particular cosmology and pantheon, and implies that having received it removes a lot of the character's freedom of action; the einherjar are the shield-brothers and footsoldiers of the Norse gods.

Edit: "You become an einherjar and spend eternity practicing your battle and engaging in amazing parties" is a pretty good way to retire a dead character, tho.

[Bonzai]

Thank you for that.

[Krobar]

I've never played in game where you can just do X, Y, and Z to get divine rank 0. It usually involves deities granting it to those who are deemed worthy of being that deity's champion forever, or sufficient sacrifice and dedication to a specific set of ideals and getting into epic levels, whereupon you basically embody those ideals.

That's how we've always run it. YMMV.

[MisterKaws]

Basically, other than being an ECL 40 Dragon, you just can't get Divine Ranks without a MacGuffin.

[OldTrees1]

Einherjar. It's Product Identity/referring to a real-world concept, so it's not in the divine stuff that made it to the SRD. It does indeed grant DR 0 with relatively soft requirements, and it's an acquired template, so it could theoretically get applied to a character in-game. There's no way given to force it to happen, tho -

Savage Species has multiple transformation rituals. Doesn't the Wish based ritual allow you to turn into a templated creature?

[Zanos]

all you need to do is get a few hundred people to worship you as a god, assuming you can't retroactively change your parentage to become half-divine.
It's not a biconditional. Demigods and hero deities have worshippers in those numbers, but not everyone worshipped in those numbers is divine. In most settings, anyway.


Savage Species has multiple transformation rituals. Doesn't the Wish based ritual allow you to turn into a templated creature?
I'd have to check bit I think this usage of wish is specifically called out as unsafe.

In one of my threads asking about what wish could do someone mentioned an adventure where a lich used thousands of wish spells to harvest the divinity of a gods corpse and became a deity in the scenario where the PCs failed. No artifact required, but still not really practical.

[Venger]

It's not a biconditional. Demigods and hero deities have worshippers in those numbers, but not everyone worshipped in those numbers is divine. In most settings, anyway.

Right, but we can agree that you definitely can't be one without at least that many members in your fan club, so before you begin other groundwork, you may as well get around to that since it's by far the easiest part of the process.


I'd have to check bit I think this usage of wish is specifically called out as unsafe.

I don't see it called out as unsafe (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wish.htm) but it's definitely not on the list of approved effects

[OldTrees1]

I don't see it called out as unsafe (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wish.htm) but it's definitely not on the list of approved effects

The Savage Species Transformation Rituals are in the Savage Species book.

[Zanos]

The rules for using wish in that manner are in Savage Species. AFB though.

[emeraldstreak]

Be a squirrel...

[weckar]

Since the actual 'prerequisites' for DivR are basically non-existant... You can effectively get it by saying you have it. And you'll then have it until the DM says you don't.

[Buufreak]

Since the actual 'prerequisites' for DivR are basically non-existant... You can effectively get it by saying you have it. And you'll then have it until the DM says you don't.

Totally did this once. Claimed to be the son of Apollo, and went through all the motions of DvR 0. I got at most a look for the DM, but he really liked the idea and rolled with it.

[Inevitability]

Be a squirrel...

You can only get DR 1 that way, though.

[dhasenan]

Wizards ported several Epic Destinies from 4e to 3.5, though when I tried to track them down, they'd disappeared from wizards.com. Third-party mirror (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6pXyKhat4iNYjBkMTdkMjYtMTUzMy00MjQ5LTkxYTItZjdjN zdiOGI5NTNl/edit?hl=en_US)

Demigod is on the list. RAW-wise, you must take it starting at your 21st level and take only Demigod levels until you complete the prestige class.

You turn into a weird variant demigod; it explicitly says your powers don't follow demigod traits as laid out in Deities and Demigods. Whether this counts as Divine Rank 0 or not depends on what your DM says.

[flappeercraft]

You can always try the Pun Pun way to get Divine ranks.

[Zanos]

Wizards ported several Epic Destinies from 4e to 3.5, though when I tried to track them down, they'd disappeared from wizards.com. Third-party mirror (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6pXyKhat4iNYjBkMTdkMjYtMTUzMy00MjQ5LTkxYTItZjdjN zdiOGI5NTNl/edit?hl=en_US)

Demigod is on the list. RAW-wise, you must take it starting at your 21st level and take only Demigod levels until you complete the prestige class.

You turn into a weird variant demigod; it explicitly says your powers don't follow demigod traits as laid out in Deities and Demigods. Whether this counts as Divine Rank 0 or not depends on what your DM says.
Epic Destinies replace your feats at 21, 24, 27, and 30. It's not a prestige class and doesn't cost levels.

I don't think Demigod grants divine rank, though. It explicitly says it doesn't use the Demigod traits and Deities and Demigods, and the 30th level ability catapults you right into being a full deity, and your character isn't really playable anymore.

As a side note, Demigod is a pretty garbage epic destiny. Non-stacking inherent bonuses to ability scores, a +5 bonus on death effects you should have been immune to for some time, regenerate at will at a point where spending a standard action to heal 4d8+CL hit points is irrelevant, the immediate action full heal + restoration is decent, and then the 30th level ability is miracle once a day, a spell a cleric could just cast five times a day 13 levels ago. Artifact Lord, on the other hand, is amazing.

[Inevitability]

You can always try the Pun Pun way to get Divine ranks.

As said before, that doesn't give you DR 0, just DR 1 and up.

[Incarnate]

From the perspective of a DM - Me:

I think first one has to ask what is divinity and what is divine power to be able to answer that question.

As I've been reading in various D&D books and on various forums on the matter, it occurs to me as a theory that since you can worship an ideal as a cleric as a source of divinity to then be granted spells & powers from it, then than could be interpreted as divinity and divine power comes from ideals and other various aspects representative of whatever "facet of reality" for mortals (and personal influence, authority & power to safeguard that ideal along with other aspects), which makes a lot of sense as every deity has a portfolio they embody and represent. The better knowledge, understanding, awareness on deeper philosophical & psychological levels of reality and the stronger their connection to their "portfolio" is the better their DVR would be, even if its sub-divine rank which basically means that its not currently strong enough to become divine (the divine spark). Of course this wouldn't be like this in all settings, but from a general perspective it makes a lot of sense.


From SRD: "Every deity of rank 1 or higher has at least limited knowledge and control over some aspect of mortal existence. A deity’s connection to its portfolio gives it a number of powers."

So a quasi-deity or demigod wouldn't actually gain any divine power, because their knowledge, understanding, awareness on deeper philosophical & psychological levels and connection to their porfolio isn't adequate enough to actually gain any divine power, however limited it would be.

When considering what happens when cultures merges who have deities that have shared elements in their portfolio, that usually results in the deities clashing in battle (in whatever way), whoever reigns supreme will be the one that become the deity for the combined culture, who also assumes the losing deity's shared portfolio elements. The deity that lost also loses divinity because of loss in portfolio along with power, divine rank, etc. (assuming the deity isn't killed during the clash). This supports my theory very well.

So how I see it, one way for a character who wishes to gain divine rank 0, would have to have a knowledge and an understanding and awareness about at least one aspect of reality that surpasses the levels thats considered mortal whereas the strength of the connection to this aspect only becomes better as the knowledge, understanding & awareness become better, it reflects how intrisic it is to its very mortal being. When it becomes completely intrinsic to its very mortal being it could qualify as what could ascend it to quasi-divinity. Once intrinsic to their very being, then the levels of knowledge, understanding and awareness sudden can reach even higher and deeper levels, which basically means that DVR can be progressed. Which in turn describes how much power and control the being has over the portfolio.

However.. Beings with DVR with a shared portfolio with the one thats about to ascend or have ascended, would most likely attempt to oppose the ascension somehow, unless shared portfolios isn't a problem in the setting.

What do you guys think?