Knowledge Build?

[BobsYourUncle!]

I am looking to build a PC that is a knowledge seeker. Combat through information type. The Challenge is I don't want to play Wizard, Sorcerer, Bard or Cleric.

What would be a good build with the allowed books below for such a seeker of information?

Allowed Books:

Core:

Player's Handbook 1 and 2
DMG
Monster's Manual (Keep it to 0 Level Adjust please!)

Non Core:

Completes
Race of Wild
Race of Stone
Race of Destiny

Thank you.

[Rebel7284]

Perhaps Exemplar from Complete Adventurer? Good focus on skills and then at at 5th class level you can awe NPCs with your knowledge so much that their attitude changes.

[Diarmuid]

Factotum? With Knowledge Devotion feat?

[BobsYourUncle!]

factotum was one I thought of buy not on my DM's approved list sadly:)

Exemplar interesting will look at that one for sure:)

also open to more ideas:)

[yellowrocket]

Themeatically a barbarian could be interesting, but what's the motivation to stay that class? Great for the role play, not so great on the roll play.

The ranger has a good amount of skill points and you could make it work as a knowledge seeking build.

That's just a quick glance at the srd. You're getting rid of the classes that make the most sense from the basic list. Is there any reason for that? Is there a build effective level you're going for?

[Thurbane]

Duskblade with Knowledge Devotion. If you want to cheese it like crazy, and you can be evil, slot into Ur-Priest.

Also, this is a great resource: The Library of Knowledge: Getting the Most out of Your Studies (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?514547)

[BobsYourUncle!]

Duskblade would be cool, Barbarian is interesting but not quite what im leaning towards lol :) and mostly because I have played those build a lot and want to get out of a rut :)

[Flickerdart]

An archivist is an excellent class for this.

Also check out the urban savant prestige class from Cityscape. His Urban Savvy ability allows him to use a Knowledge check to assess a creature's combat ability, see its weaknesses, deal extra damage against it, or grant protection against its attacks. He can also use Knowledge to change NPC attitudes, or determine that an illusion is present.

[Grod_The_Giant]

By which I suppose you mean "not a primary caster?" (Wu Jen/Paragnostic Apostle would certainly work).

The good news is that you have Races of Destiny and Complete Champion. That means you can get Able Learner, meaning you only need one level of an all-knowledge-skills class (Duskblade and Wu Jen being the only ones that leap out from your approved sources), and you can run with Knowledge Devotion. Then any high-skill-point class or build will do. Maybe a Daring Outlaw type? Cleric (Knowledge, Travel; trade both for the Devotion feats) 1/Swashbuckler 1/Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 16. Get Int-to-damage and Knowledge Devotion working for you, and also dance around the battlefield sneak attacking dudes. Could drop some Assassin in there too for a bit of casting, if you so desired.

[BobsYourUncle!]

swashbuckler is very interesting indeed, human with able learner and knowledge devotion is kind of interesting, travel the high seas type seeking lost knowledge could work. Nice Rouge flavor and decent skill points. wouldn't you take rouge at 1 for extra skills? :) what do you think of a beguiler and exemplar build? how would you do that?

[Grod_The_Giant]

swashbuckler is very interesting indeed, human with able learner and knowledge devotion is kind of interesting, travel the high seas type seeking lost knowledge could work. Nice Rouge flavor and decent skill points. wouldn't you take rouge at 1 for extra skills? :) what do you think of a beguiler and exemplar build? how would you do that?
The trouble is that you kind of need the Knowledge skills before you can put the points in them... but no, you're right; Able Learner and Rogue at first, then invest up to the cross-class limit.

I probably wouldn't use Exemplar at all, honestly. Skill Mastery is decent, but everything else is reasonably bad. Beguiler is good, though. Beguiler will get you crazy skill points-- 6+Int on an Int-based caster? <whistle> Instead... maybe Beguiler/Unseen Seer, or Beguiler/Paragnostic Apostle? The main feature is literally called Knowledge is Power. Grab Noble Presence, Penetrating Insight, maybe a Discern Weakness or two...

[Zaq]

Darn shame that Tome of Magic isn't on your approved list.

Well, okay, that might be a good thing overall. But still.

Whatever class you pick, go illumian for race. +2 on all INT-based checks (and also on whatever your second favorite stat is) really can't be topped for LA 0. (Going gnome for Trivial Knowledge is your second-best bet, but illumians take less investment.)

[Pyromancer999]

The Archivist has some good Knowledge-based abilities, as does Urban Savant, even if you choose to ignore the casting side entirely. Ebonmar Infiltrator not only gives you spellcasting with which to enter Urban Savant, but also helps you steal knowledge.

Although not as centered about helping Knowledge accumulation, psionics is also a path, if you spam Call to Mind, and a Seer can be refluffed as just knowing enough to predict the future.

Also, if you want more skill points, Changeling Rogue 1 substitution level gets you (10 + Int mod) × 4 skill points at level 1, plus lets you add any one Knowledge skill to your class skill list.

[etrpgb]

I agree with Archivist, a part of being a powerful class, it matches your requests very well. Otherwise, Chameleon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=14243311&postcount=15), I'd go with Warblade/Chameleon.

[BobsYourUncle!]

Archivist I agree would be great looking at it but is not on the approved book list:) maybe I can talk him into it. Chameleon has some real potential indeed. maybe as part of a Beguilar build:) and what book does changeling rouge come from?

[etrpgb]

Races of Eberron pag. 122; Beguiller/Chameleon is indeed nice!

[Dagroth]

Archivist I agree would be great looking at it but is not on the approved book list:) maybe I can talk him into it. Chameleon has some real potential indeed. maybe as part of a Beguilar build:) and what book does changeling rouge come from?

Changeling is an Ebberon race, so probably not accepted by your DM.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Races of Eberron pag. 122; Beguiller/Chameleon is indeed nice!
:smallconfused: Beguiler-- or any spellcaster, for that matter-- is a terrible Chameleon entry. It's largely an entry-neutral PrC-- it gives you entirely self-contained features (spellcasting, primarily), rather than bolstering existing ones. A good Chameleon entry gives you abilities that scale with character level more than class, so they remain useful once Chameleon takes over. (Or better yet, synergize with Chameleon abilities). Incarnum, for example, is I think the best option-- your essentia cap scales with total level, and you can use feats/spells to pick up more essentia and binds. But even something like a Swashbuckler can take advantage of the BAB improvements and buff spells; a Beguiler, not so much.

[etrpgb]

Unfortunately he is very limited with the books, I am afraid that is not an option.

[daremetoidareyo]

Killoren is the way to go. Take the killoren ancient feat and you can take 10 minutes to make any type of knowledge check with a plus 4 bonus. Pair that with complete warriors dc 15 history check to tell you about old battlefields or how critters organize their military plus the dc 20 architecture check for assaulting a stronghold

[Grod_The_Giant]

Unfortunately he is very limited with the books, I am afraid that is not an option.
Sure, which is why I didn't suggest it. With the options on hand, I'd probably go, oh, Rogue 1/Duskblade 3/anything 1. Duskblade 3 lets you Arcane Channel your Chameleon spells, which is awful nice... Swashbuckler 3/Duskblade 3 would also be good if you don't mind waiting an extra level for entry.

[BobsYourUncle!]

the books make this a challenge I agree:) not to mention my wanting to go outside the box. :) so the ones I really looking at now are three:

Swash/Rogue maybe dread pirate:)

Rouge/Duskblade fun times

Chamleon/Exemplar build, (Not sure of base Class) :)

[ExLibrisMortis]

Testing the limits here: CPsi is on your book list, but the EPH is not. Erudite is in CPsi (appendix, p. 153), and it has "knowledge" practically as prerequisite. You can even play a mantled erudite, and pick Knowledge (not a great mantle, but good flavour, and the mantle power helps). An ardent of Knowledge also works.

[BobsYourUncle!]

Testing the limits here: CPsi is on your book list, but the EPH is not. Erudite is in CPsi (appendix, p. 153), and it has "knowledge" practically as prerequisite. You can even play a mantled erudite, and pick Knowledge (not a great mantle, but good flavour, and the mantle power helps). An ardent of Knowledge also works.

actually interesting had not considered PSI at all actually lol.

[BobsYourUncle!]

Thank everyone for the help so far!

[ShurikVch]

If it isn't too late yet:

Psion with Psicrystal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psion.htm#psicrystals) with Sage personality, and Call to Mind (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/calltoMind.htm) power; Psymbiot feat (if you expecting to meet psionic creatures); if online sources are OK, then also Psychic Knowledge (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070411a).

Or, maybe, something completely different?
Scout is someone who discovering information, and "information" may be interpreted as "knowledge", correct?
Thus, Human Scout with Able Learner and City Slicker feats, at 3rd level take Knowledge Devotion, at 5th - enter Paragnostic Initiate - to get all Knowledge as class skills (which, in theory, may include even such unusual things as Herbalism or Mathematics); Jack of All Trades feat - so any of those numerous Knowledge skills are "trained"; also, may take Inside Connection feat(s) - in case you need Knowledge from the organization

[Grod_The_Giant]

Or, maybe, something completely different?
Scout is someone who discovering information, and "information" may be interpreted as "knowledge", correct?
Thus, Human Scout with Able Learner and City Slicker feats, at 5th level enter Paragnostic Initiate - to get all Knowledge as class skills (which, in theory, may include even such unusual things as Herbalism or Mathematics); Jack of All Trades feat - so any of those numerous Knowledge skills are "trained"; also, may take Inside Connection feat(s) - in case you need Knowledge from the organization
I mean, Scout tends to want a Cleric Dip anyway, so you may as well just get the Knowledge domain/Cloistered Cleric that way.

[ShurikVch]

I mean, Scout tends to want a Cleric Dip anyway, so you may as well just get the Knowledge domain/Cloistered Cleric that way.OP said:
The Challenge is I don't want to play Wizard, Sorcerer, Bard or Cleric.Also, Unearthed Arcana isn't in the list of allowed books (otherwise I would mention the Absent Minded (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm#absentMinded) trait):
Allowed Books:

Core:

Player's Handbook 1 and 2
DMG
Monster's Manual (Keep it to 0 Level Adjust please!)

Non Core:

Completes
Race of Wild
Race of Stone
Race of DestinyMaybe, dwarven Druid with Ancestral Knowledge...

[Amphetryon]

Can we get the OP into a Divine Oracle + Paragnostic Apostle combination with the limitations set forth? I think we probably can.

[BobsYourUncle!]

Can we get the OP into a Divine Oracle + Paragnostic Apostle combination with the limitations set forth? I think we probably can.

maybe use Dusk Blade with them somehow? although would be slow to get to 3rd level spells I think.

[BobsYourUncle!]

or perhaps Druid? not sure how that would work but is an odd idea:) always Wu Jen of course as well.

[etrpgb]

Druid always works. Factotum (Able Learner) 1/Druid 19 can be... whatever you need it to be.

The only limit is the race, to get Able Learner you need to be Human or Doppelganger, that actually means a bit more races (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=135.msg457#msg457).

[BobsYourUncle!]

lol on the druid:) and factotum not in an approved book though:(

[Amphetryon]

maybe use Dusk Blade with them somehow? although would be slow to get to 3rd level spells I think.

I believe you can get into both Divine Oracle and Paragnostic Apostle via Shugenja. Favored Soul may also be possible.

[BobsYourUncle!]

I believe you can get into both Divine Oracle and Paragnostic Apostle via Shugenja. Favored Soul may also be possible.

Favored Soul would be an interesting idea... Choose a good with Knowledge domain who tasks him with gathering knowledge etc.

[etrpgb]

What about single feats? Education feat puts all the knowledge in class and it appears in multiple manuals. (Eberron Campaign Setting, Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, Player's Guide to Faerun, Ghostwalk)...

The obvious choice for your request is a Cleric [Knowledge, Magic] 20 (possibly some PrC). But you want out of the box...

What was wrong with Duskblade 3/Monk 2/Chameleon 10 ?

[BobsYourUncle!]

Nothing wrong with that Duskblade build. just like to get several ideas and then combine them:) more input is always helpful. I enjoy taking time to build a PC. And no those books are off the table to. I left a list of the approved books In the 1st message of the thread. :( and yeah Cleric etc I have played a lot and really wanna get out of the rut:)

[etrpgb]

At least Able Learner is from Races of Destiny and this opens few possibilities. To open the skill list nothing beats the Factotum (as the name suggests), but a Bard is fairly good too. Bard1/Druid 19?

A Green Whisperer (http://realmshelps.net/charbuild/classes/prestige/general/greenwhisperer.shtml) would play nicely here... but everything nice is banned :(