Mines of Phandelver questions/advice

[Erose]

We just tpk'd and I'm wondering if other DM's scale up the opponent's as such. We were a party of 5, 4th levelers at the time. We first entered the room where the Bugbear King was discussing something with the Doppelganger disguised as a Drow female. Since we tpk'd I've now read the campaign. There was supposed to be the Bugbear King, Doppelganger and a Wolf in that room. We received no option of a listen check before we opened the door. When we did, he described the room and whom was in it. Glass Staff (whom got away our first run in with him) , a Drow female, a Bugbear, a Minotaur and a Hobgoblin. After the explanation, initiative. Only one of our group (Cleric) rolled higher in initiative than the opposition (whom all rolled their own separate initiative). I should also mention at this point that we were beat up somewhat from the previous encounter with a Troll (was supposed to be an Owlbear) that was locked in a room alone. So, Cleric is in the rear and Casts bless. DM'S turn, Glass Staff casts fireball which managed to hit four of us, 2 failed the save, others took half damage and one (me, which failed) got absorb elements off. The Minotaur charges and hits our paladin in the doorway. The Bugbear casts Bless...yea Bless. The Hobgoblin moves next to the Minotaur blocking the doorway. The Doppelganger casts heat metal on our Paladin and drops him. So, that's how it started, round one. I won't bother you with the rest of the battle details. This is what I learned through the battle though. Glass Staff had to at least be a 5th Lvl Evocation Wiz. (Casted Fireball twice and used evoker ability) The Doppelganger Drow Female was given at least 6 levels in the Bard class, I counted the various 2nd Lvl Spells it casted. The Bugbear had a minimum of 3 Cleric levels along with about high 30'hp. The Hobgoblin had more than 40Hp and hit with 3d6 martial advantage rather than the standard 2d6. It's AC was 20 as well. The Minotaur was, well a Minotaur. Considering our party, the way he railroaded us to be bottlenecked in the doorway, and the uncalcuable CR's our enemies were....is that overkill? Can anyone whom bothered to read this establish what CR'S those foes were given the information above?

[Ninja_Prawn]

We received no option of a listen check before we opened the door.

Did you ask to stop and listen? For perception and insight, you can't expect the DM to be calling for checks all the time; they'll just use your passive scores until you declare that you're doing something out of the ordinary.


Can anyone whom bothered to read this establish what CR'S those foes were given the information above?

Without accurate stat blocks, the best we can do is guess. My first impression here is that your DM may have over-egged it, but we can't know for sure.

[Erose]

Did you ask to stop and listen? For perception and insight, you can't expect the DM to be calling for checks all the time; they'll just use your passive scores until you declare that you're doing something out of the ordinary.



Without accurate stat blocks, the best we can do is guess. My first impression here is that your DM may have over-egged it, but we can't know for sure.

I don't recall anyone asking to use the perception skill. However, the door was locked and had to be successfully picked if that means anything.

[Cespenar]

They mostly seem like CR 3 opponents apiece, which puts the encounter well above Deadly.

With extreme advantage, you could have perhaps won, but it seems pretty unbalanced from the limited knowledge that we have.

[Erose]

They mostly seem like CR 3 opponents apiece, which puts the encounter well above Deadly.

With extreme advantage, you could have perhaps won, but it seems pretty unbalanced from the limited knowledge that we have.

Could you suggest any other information I could provide?

[Mhl7]

... Glass Staff, a Drow female, a Bugbear, a Minotaur and a Hobgoblin.

Do they all fit in the rather small room of the castle? Does the Minotaur even fit through the hallways? Did he gave you some explanation for the Minotaur? Why was he there? How did he came in term with the Gobbos?

It seems like your DM really wanted to beat you up. Some DM think that they are the opponent rather than the judge and they feel bad when their side looses too much.

[Erose]

Do they all fit in the rather small room of the castle? Does the Minotaur even fit through the hallways? Did he gave you some explanation for the Minotaur? Why was he there? How did he came in term with the Gobbos?

It seems like your DM really wanted to beat you up. Some DM think that they are the opponent rather than the judge and they feel bad when their side looses too much.

The room our opponents were in was approximately 30x20ft. with 15ft ceiling. The side we were on was 10×10 which had two entryways that eventually thinned down to a 5ft corridor that lead to other rooms. The Minotaur was a surprise along with the Drow. He never mentioned if the Minotaur could fit through the door, nor did we question it. And yes, the feeling in the room amongst us was that he really wanted to win, it was just in the tone of his voice. What was shocking is a Bugbear with Cleric levels. A Doppelganger with Bard levels and the beefing up of the Hobgoblin. We actually expected the fireball since we encountered the Wizard prior when the party was 2nd level. Even at that level, he casted fireball on us.

[Cespenar]

Could you suggest any other information I could provide?

I was talking about the fact that I was eyeballing the CRs. With definite CRs, the difficulty could more accurately be calculated.

But a few points that might have helped you:

-No one remembered to actually say "I listen through the door".
-Having thus heard the argument, you could have prepared your actions, precast Bless and whatnot.
-Then, open the door and rain fire. You could even focus fire and take down the wizard if you knew about his fireballs from earlier.

That said, these things happen sometimes, especially on the verge of level 4-5, and especially with area spells.

[Erose]

I was talking about the fact that I was eyeballing the CRs. With definite CRs, the difficulty could more accurately be calculated.

But a few points that might have helped you:

-No one remembered to actually say "I listen through the door".
-Having thus heard the argument, you could have prepared your actions, precast Bless and whatnot.
-Then, open the door and rain fire. You could even focus fire and take down the wizard if you knew about his fireballs from earlier.

That said, these things happen sometimes, especially on the verge of level 4-5, and especially with area spells.

Got ya, yes we learned a few things that could have been handled differently. Tpk's will do that. Thank you for the responses though, it's appreciated.

[Captain Morgan]

Having played through that adventure, definitely sounds like your DM changed it in a way that's overkill.

[Cespenar]

Got ya, yes we learned a few things that could have been handled differently. Tpk's will do that. Thank you for the responses though, it's appreciated.

No problem. I got a TPK in Phandelver myself, so I know how you feel.

A similar pattern, ours was attacking the Flameskull with a tired and overreaching party despite my suggestions to not do so. We got a fireball into us as well, and it went downhill after that. Only my wizard got out, and he went off someplace to shun the adventuring path and just be the guy who identifies other adventurers' magical items for a pay. A much safer line of work.

[BigONotation]

Your DM, he is either willfully trying to kill you or doesn't understand how to scale encounters. At least you would have had a chance to hear through the door when picking it.

[xXBlackGuardXx]

Certainly overkill. By the book the encounter shows only the one Bugbear (King Grol), his wolf (Snarl), and the "drow" doppelganger being in the room.

[Idkwhatmyscreen]

Certainly overkill. By the book the encounter shows only the one Bugbear (King Grol), his wolf (Snarl), and the "drow" doppelganger being in the room.

True, but they where a 5 player party some extra creatures need to be added to account for the "extra" Though that does not mean giving everything caster levels and adding a minotaur

[xXBlackGuardXx]

True, but they where a 5 player party some extra creatures need to be added to account for the "extra" Though that does not mean giving everything caster levels and adding a minotaur

I agree that some sections of the campaign could use some "extras" in general but I guess I assumed when it said it was

...an adventure for four to five characters of 1st level. During the course of the adventure, the characters will advance to 5th level.

that it already accommodated for 5 players.

[Erose]

On a funny note, one of our player's gave the DM a wedgie afterwards.