Shillelagh + Lifedrinker?

[ChampionWiggles]

Is the investment worth it? It was an idea I thought, with the draw of the build being able to stack up on ability mods for big damage. The build is possible through 3 options:

1. Take Magic Initiate and pick it up from Druid list. Pro being that you get to use this right at lvl 12 when Lifedrinker is available. Con is that you worry about MAD.
2. Multiclass into Druid. Pro, you don't use up an ABI for the feat and the combo is available at character lvl 13, assuming you only dip 1 lvl. I don't see any reason to go further than 1 lvl, but I might be missing something. The Con is that you once again worry about MAD and lose out on your lvl 20 Warlock ability (or more, if you're multidipping).
3. Dip into Lore Bard 6 (at least) and have Magical Secrets be Shillelagh. Pro being you don't have to worry about MAD and probably gives you biggest damage mod for melee attacks, along with several Bard features. Con, you lose 1 spell slot, 2 Invocations, and later Warlock class features, plus you don't get access to the combo until character lvl 18, which just seems really late game for this.

The build limits you to clubs and quarterstaves, but the possible damage seems really high to me. Assuming you max out your mod (Or mods), you'll get +10 damage per attack made, without having to sacrifice accuracy like GWM. If you take Thirsting Blade (Which as an obvious Bladelock, why wouldn't you?) and take Polearm master, you'll get 3 attacks per round. Does the spell effect of Shillelagh's d8 damage dice replace the d4 on the Polarm bonus attack? If so, you're looking at 3d8+30 (roughly 45) for the round or 2d8+1d4+30 (roughly 42) if not. Add Hex and you get an additional 3d6 (roughly 12).

Does that seem worth it? 54-57 damage per round sounds pretty big, but I haven't really reached an end of campaign and don't have a good grasp on what's good in the meta and in the big picture. I suppose you could tri-class into Paladin for Divine Smite for even more hurt.

EDIT: Just noticed this question was literally asked 2 weeks ago in a different thread. NVM

[Naanomi]

It's broadly viable, but this by doesn't come online until late level and isn't staggeringly better than relying on SCAG Melee cantrips.

I like the Lore Bard entry, it allows Elemental Weapon which adds a lot to this idea

Races: V Human (for early polearm mastery); Half Elf (for general stat spread); maybe Scourge Aasimar (but again it tends to do better with the SCAG cantrips model)

[jaappleton]

Taking MI or dipping Druid (or Nature Cleric) makes it dependent on Wis.
Taking it via Tome Warlock or Lore Bard makes it Cha based.

The wording of Polearm Master in the PHB was Errata'd to make the bonus action attack use the same modifier as the original attack and no longer require Strength.

Since you can't be both a Bladelock AND a Tomelock, you need 6 levels of Bard or having it be purely Wisdom focused.

[RSP]

No, Shillelagh does not replace the 1d4 from PAM: you get the attack from the feat and the Cantrip wording doesn't affect that. Crawford had a SA on it somewhere.

Also, this question is now moot if using the Hexblade patron from UA. That is, you'd have a better option for using Chr as your attack stat from lvl 1. I know it isn't allowed at every table but figured I'd throw it out there as an option.

[DragonSorcererX]

Even if this works, this is one of those builds that would be viable only if the game started at level 20...

[jaappleton]

Even if this works, this is one of those builds that would be viable only if the game started at level 20...

Two things:

1. Wasn't your Avatar a kobold before?

2. Agreed, and its fairly suboptimal. Better off going Hexblade with PAM, Lifedrinker, and Thirsting Blade (Assuming UA is allowed). Otherwise, there's tons of other builds that do this style better that're AL legal.

[Specter]

Seems easier to take the cantrip by going the Tomelock way. That means no extra attack via Bladelock, but with a damage cantrip like Green-Flame Blade it could work. Bonus point: this is ready to go at level 12.

[DragonSorcererX]

Two things:

1. Wasn't your Avatar a kobold before?

2. Agreed, and its fairly suboptimal. Better off going Hexblade with PAM, Lifedrinker, and Thirsting Blade (Assuming UA is allowed). Otherwise, there's tons of other builds that do this style better that're AL legal.

1. Yes, I was thinking of World Building, and Kobolds don't fit in the Homebrew Campaign Setting that I have in my mind because of their "fun size" and because I like Dragonborn better (but mostly because of their size).

2. Nothing to say here.

[BW022]

ChampionWiggles,

I have a cleric (nature)/1, bladelock build. IMO, this is likely one of the best Shillelagh builds.

1. You get heavy armor and shield, which immediately removes much of the MAD. You can short strength, dexterity, and intelligence if you wish. You only need a good wisdom and charisma, plus a reasonable constitution. IMO, it is really hard to make a bladelock build a reasonable AC.
2. You get two spells slots. While only 1st-level, these two slots are great for powering hex, without blowing your high-level warlock slots.
3. You get cleric spells and cantrips. This add to flexibility (ritual casting and ability to pray for different prepared spells) and many spells are great using higher-level warlocks slots (i.e. non-combat healing during rests). Some cleric spells are extremely useful.

It has downsides, specifically with being a level of warlock behind and needing to worry about spell components when casting with a weapon and shield.

Whether any bladelock build is worth it... that is up to the player, campaign, setting, other players, etc. Eldritch blast + agonizing blast is still a 'go-to' ability. Any warlock is probably best off staying back and blasting using this. You avoid taking damage, can target different foes, easy to maintain concentration, etc. With a bladelock, you merely get an ability to do some melee. It takes away from other roles you could have (tomb locks utility spells or a chain locks' scouting/spying/aiding potential) and you have to invest a level, feats, and defensive spells into being able to do so. In some games, it might be necessary (limited number of PCs, no one else to tank) or might be valuable. I'll say, I find the build flexible.

Whether a shillelagh bladelock is better than a strength-based or dexterity based bladelock. Don't know. IMO, you are likely going to have to multi-class for the armor and/or shield. The extra 1st-level spell slots for hex are also huge. You might be able to get away with a reach polearm or whip build -- and stay out of melee using say spider climb or fly. However, this fails against flying or creatures with reach.

I've enjoyed the shillelagh bladelock, but I'll say it was a specific build with not much flexibility. A strength-based (or even dexterity-based) bladelock would have a lot more options.

[jaappleton]

You still can't dump Strength with Heavy Armor. Most Heavy armors require a Str score of 13 or 15. So have fun with your half speed.

Why don't people know that?

[Naanomi]

You still can't dump Strength with Heavy Armor. Most Heavy armors require a Str score of 13 or 15. So have fun with your half speed.

Why don't people know that?
Unless you are a dwarf of course. I prefer medium armor for this reason (Dex 14 less arduous than Str 15)

[MeeposFire]

You still can't dump Strength with Heavy Armor. Most Heavy armors require a Str score of 13 or 15. So have fun with your half speed.

Why don't people know that?

TO be fair it is -10 feet not half speed. That means you could always choose to pick up mobility and the str requirement means nothing.

[jaappleton]

TO be fair it is -10 feet not half speed. That means you could always choose to pick up mobility and the str requirement means nothing.

Fair enough. But still... I mean, its listed right next to how much armor costs, weighs, the AC it provides... It's not hidden away.

[Specter]

Heavy armor? Not a must. If you're dipping Fighter, you can grab 17AC out of medium armor, which is good enough. If you pack a shield, that's 19.

A full plate would give 21, but you wouldn't be able to sneak around and would need a higher stat which you won't use with Shillelagh.

[Drackolus]

Theoretically, yes. Consider, however, that you could just use a rapier for the same damage and use dex instead of wis, which is probably superior due to also impacting ac. And if you want armor, a 1 level fighter dip or 2 paladin (if you want to use str) can get you that. Heck, the feat is just fine, as well.
And if you're allowing UA, you could also just be a hexblade. You don't HAVE to use cursebringer, mighty though it is.

[Desamir]

If DMG classes are allowed, Oathbreaker accomplishes basically the same thing starting much earlier, while dealing more damage later on thanks to Improved Divine Smite. A high level Oathbreaker with PAM is looking at 2d10+1d4+3d8+30 = 57. That's before any conditional modifiers or spells.

Perma-rage at 15th level is a nice defensive bonus.

[mistwell]

Favored Soul 1 (Nature Domain) gives you Shillelagh as a Charisma spell at first level, doesn't it?

[jaappleton]

Favored Soul 1 (Nature Domain) gives you Shillelagh as a Charisma spell at first level, doesn't it?

Nature Cleric lets you nab a Druid cantrip. But its a Cantrip, so its not on the bonus Domain spell list for Nature Clerics.

So going Nature Cleric would get it, but it'd still key off Wisdom. Not Charisma.

[mistwell]

Nature Cleric lets you nab a Druid cantrip. But its a Cantrip, so its not on the bonus Domain spell list for Nature Clerics.

So going Nature Cleric would get it, but it'd still key off Wisdom. Not Charisma.

Ah right, I didn't have it in front of me and thought it was on the list and not a listed ability. Ah well..I keep thinking there must be some way to get the spell as a Charisma spell at first level.