Dragonlance Mystic in Forgotten Realms

[ViperMagnum357]

Alright, long time lurker with a question I could not answer after 40+ minutes of trawling the board.

On Toril, the Weave/Shadow Weave have a stranglehold on magic, as a means of preventing mortals from ripping up reality and keeping Deities on top of the pile. While most other conversions from setting specific magic are easy, I got stumped by this class because of the fluff behind it. In Dragonlance, the Mystic is a spontaneous divine caster in the vein of a sorcerer who very explicitly does not use godly magic. Not steal it from the Gods like an Ur-Priest or worship some concept like a cleric, or even draw power from nature like Druids or Rangers. Snap judgement suggests treating them like a Ranger casting variant, depriving them of power without acknowledging a deity; However, the fluff of the class is very clear that they draw power from "inner awareness and self discovery" and historically used their power without drawing energy from the gods or any portion of nature.

The real sticking point is the Age of Mortals: After Krynn was ripped from its moorings the realm was completely bereft of all Godly and Divine magic, leaving clerics and every other divine caster powerless, along with prepared arcane casting that left the Wizards as glorified commoners. 'Base' Sorcery still functioned by feeding off the ambient energy left by Chaos, but Mystics began to discover their power in a world where divine magic should have been impossible-and retained it after the return of the Gods.

So, would it be possible for a Mystic to cast from their soul without a deific sponsor, or perhaps somehow accessing the Weave without permission due to the unusual nature of their magic?

[animewatcha]

There is cleric of ideal. Even in forgotten realms ( though not recommended ). If person dies with no god and assuming that nothing was done soul-wise like pact with devil, I believe it then defaults to their alignment. If alignment-based method doesn't work then person goes to wall of faithless ( I think that is what it was called ). Mystics would likely find themselves on the weave / shadow weave in an unusual manner and would ding on the appropriate portfolio of the Gods as WTF. Churches make not like you and may choose to deal with you in accordance to the church goings. Ilmater might be okay with you so long as you do the Jesus thing. Shar might be 'give homage to me or I cut you off from the Shadow Weave.'

[Psyren]

So, would it be possible for a Mystic to cast from their soul without a deific sponsor, or perhaps somehow accessing the Weave without permission due to the unusual nature of their magic?

By RAW, no, you need a patron. Even normally patron-less classes like Paladin and Druid need a patron in FR. Mystics as written would either not function at all there, or would be sponsored by a deity without their knowledge.

If your DM (or you, if that's you) think it would make for a more interesting story though, go for it.

[Honest Tiefling]

There is cleric of ideal. Even in forgotten realms ( though not recommended ). If person dies with no god and assuming that nothing was done soul-wise like pact with devil, I believe it then defaults to their alignment. If alignment-based method doesn't work then person goes to wall of faithless ( I think that is what it was called ).

I think you're thinking of Greyhawk. Clerics of Ideals explicitly don't work by the rules of the Forgotten Realms setting, and ALL faithless go to that wall and cannot be resurrected. Due to these rules, this concept gets a little wonky in base Forgotten Realms as all magic goes through one god or another.

To my knowledge, Mystra can't exactly stop people from accessing the weave unless they're about to do something colossally stupid and/or destructive, so permission probably isn't even needed.

I think one of the later books did specify that druids MIGHT be able to get divine power without a god, but I believe it was a plot hook that never was explained so the DM could figure it out. That might be the best bet for a canonical explanation for the Mystic.

For a non-canon one, I could see some gods getting a chuckle out of dumping divine power on worthy (or humorous) targets. Like Cyric, or Leira if you want her to be alive again.

[ViperMagnum357]

@Honest Tiefling: Do you remember what book that plothook is from? I have forgotten most of the settings particulars with my head stuck in Dragonlance for so long. If a druid can access the weave through an alternative, that would be a good starting place-I actually got on this question when I was mulling a setting transplant of Dragonlance Draconians into Toril. Bozaks and Auraks have natural spellcasting identical to True Dragons, but Vapor Draconians instead have natural Spellcasting levels in Mystic equal to their racial Hit Dice-and after their betrayal at the hands of Takhisis, many Draconians are extremely anti-religion. Which would leave them in an odd position as natural spellcasters in a realm where obeisance to deific power is required to use their natural gifts.

[Honest Tiefling]

Champions of Ruin, maybe? I'll try to find it, but it is tied to a very evil organization of elves that butcher anything that is not an elf, so you may need to work with your DM if this is a non-evil campaign or a non-elf campaign.

Found it! Divine magic that calls upon NATURE, but not a deity, however...Close enough? Champions of Ruin, page 83.

[ViperMagnum357]

Ah, Eldreth Veluuthra, courtesy of a druid lich. Just what I was looking for-a mechanical loophole that concerns the exception proving a rule; that the gods of Toril are on very thin ice if knowledge of their precarious position gets out. No idea if it would work for arcane casters, but the nature of the magic used by mystics is about halfway between druids, ideal clerics, ur-priests, and psionics-I can definitely fit this in with at least one example on record for an exception to the weave.

[Caelestion]

Point of order - it does not say that they can cast magic without access to the Weave. It says that they can somehow channel divine magic without a godly patron.

[ViperMagnum357]

In this case, the point is that the Gods do not have complete control over magic-Mystra might be able to shut off magic as a whole and suppress portions to deprive a particularly dangerous enemy. However, they cannot just say "not gonna happen" and single someone out to shut them down until they bend knee, if that individual knows what to do. It might be very difficult and a secret worth killing to keep, but all I wanted was something to work with-I do not expect anyone to be casting on Toril without the Weave/Shadow Weave any more than I expect anyone to cast on a dead magic demi-plane.

[Caelestion]

Well, even if a single line in a splatbook is not just propaganda and a deity is secretly providing the power (say, Chauntea, the goddess of the planet itself), it says nothing about exempting deceased members from the Wall of the Faithless. Even if they can act like Ur-Priests and cast without divine favour, they're still sentenced to an eternity of misery after death for not actually worshipping a given deity.

[ViperMagnum357]

What happens after death is probably not high on the list of concerns for natural spellcasters with lifespans comparable or superior to True Dragons-and if they died on Toril they would still have a day or three to contemplate their options/get resurrected by an ally.

[Honest Tiefling]

What happens after death is probably not high on the list of concerns for natural spellcasters with lifespans comparable or superior to True Dragons-and if they died on Toril they would still have a day or three to contemplate their options/get resurrected by an ally.

It actually is. IIRC, this prevents any form of resurrection via magic, so no resurrection spell.

[ViperMagnum357]

It actually is. IIRC, this prevents any form of resurrection via magic, so no resurrection spell.

Teach me for theorycrafting on no sleep...Though I suppose if I do end up transplanting Draconians onto Faerun they might have future generations without the personal experience of having your species directly screwed over by deities, so they might be drawn into one of the faiths against the advice of their parents.