Closest I can get to a succubus themed sorcerer? D&D 3.5

[Reprimand]

Whats the closest I can get to making a succubus themed sorcerer (Social Skills, enchantment illusion conjuration focused) without taking actual templates or racial HD. Leadership is Legal though the DM controls all npcs. Trying to get social skills but still want to stay as close to fullcaster as possible. Not worried about this being the most optimial build just that it can control people hide its identity and summon demons via planar binding etc.

[One Step Two]

I'll need to double check if it qualifies, but Beguiler into the Malconvoker PrC covers it pretty nicely. The Beguiler comes with pretty much full blown illusions and enchantment spells and socail skills to boot. Malconvoker lets you summon demons to do your bidding. I'll give you a fuller build stub in a few minutes once I get to my books.

Edit: Unfortunately, the Beguiler does not have access to Summoner Monster III, which is required for the Malconvoker (found in complete scoundrel). The only means that don't require odd rules interpretation is a custome Runestaff with the spell inscribed into it.

The other alternative Build uses Bard as a base to get the full suite of skills, and then taking levels of Lyric Thaumaturge from Compelte Mage to augment spellcasting, before getting into Sublime Chord (complete arcane) to become a full caster. Malconvoker can still fit into this overall.

[One Step Two]

I can't believe it's not a succubus!

If you can make use of the LA Buyoff rules I recommend the Fey'ri as a race

Fey'ri (Races of Faerun) Gives +2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Con, Wings, and oodles of benefits for a +2 LA, most notably, Outsider type, 40ft flight speed, Elf qualities (low light vision, etc). Alter Self at will.
Most importantly, access to Charm Person, Detect Thoughts and Suggestion as Spell-like abilities. There's actually several SLAs and abilities to choose from, most usable only 1/day, but taking the Magic in the Blood feat lets you bump them up to 3/day.
You can take Enervate 1/day as a SLA to be even more like a succubus but this will turn it into an LA +3 race, unless....

Using the Lesser Planetouched Rules from Players Guide to Faerun, you can reduce the LA by 1 by exchanging the Outsider (native) type for Humanoid (Planetouched).

With all this in mind, the build will end up looking like this: Bard 6/Lyric Thamaturge 4/Sublime Chord 1/Malconvoker 9

This will net you with a host of social skills, Full casting of 9th level spells by 18th level, and you'll be the best darn summoner of evil outsiders around. The bardic music can be used to fuel the Lyric Spell feat from Complete adventurer, to get even more spells out in a day.

[Reprimand]

>Succubus themed Sorcerer
>without taking actual templates or racial HD.

I'm specifically trying to stay with sorcerer and maintain full casting beguiler isn't allowed because our class selection is very limited but without going into our wierd class system Im just trying to get general tips for Spells/Skills/Abilities to invest in that would be iconic of a succubus.

Even tactics on how to play a controller/seductress are very welcome.

[One Step Two]

I'm specifically trying to stay with sorcerer and maintain full casting beguiler isn't allowed because our class selection is very limited but without going into our wierd class system Im just trying to get general tips for Spells/Skills/Abilities to invest in that would be iconic of a succubus.

Even tactics on how to play a controller/seductress are very welcome.

Apologies!

Iconic Abilities of the succubus include: Changing Shape, Social/Mental control, and their Draining Kiss

These are covered by some basic low level spells such as Alter Self, Detect Thoughts and Charm Person. Skills is where you will find it most difficult as the Sorcerer only has Bluff as a social Skill, but with investment into cross-class diplomacy with a high natural charisma should help. The hardest thing to replicate will be the draining kiss, but spells like Enervate, Touch of Fatigue, Ray of Enfeeblement and Bestow curse can do similar things.

Things to be aware of: Abilities to resist mental control are common, Protection vs Evil is the foremost, all the way to the Enchantment school bane of Mind Blank. Skills such as Bluff and diplomacy are the only things you can use to work around it.

As for tactics, direct confrontations are the last thing you want to be a part of. Your work is best exhibited before battle. Charming enemy lieutenants to follow you into the night to either miss the battle, or never be seen again for example.
When dealing with people as the party face, role-playing is your best ally, both in and out of character, a succubus/seductress will always play on her targets sympathies or desires, use of detect thought spells, or gather information checks to find out about the target beforehand to find out what makes their target tick, and capitalize on their weakness to get exactly what you want.

[Reprimand]

Apologies!

Iconic Abilities of the succubus include: Changing Shape, Social/Mental control, and their Draining Kiss

These are covered by some basic low level spells such as Alter Self, Detect Thoughts and Charm Person. Skills is where you will find it most difficult as the Sorcerer only has Bluff as a social Skill, but with investment into cross-class diplomacy with a high natural charisma should help. The hardest thing to replicate will be the draining kiss, but spells like Enervate, Touch of Fatigue, Ray of Enfeeblement and Bestow curse can do similar things.

Things to be aware of: Abilities to resist mental control are common, Protection vs Evil is the foremost, all the way to the Enchantment school bane of Mind Blank. Skills such as Bluff and diplomacy are the only things you can use to work around it.

As for tactics, direct confrontations are the last thing you want to be a part of. Your work is best exhibited before battle. Charming enemy lieutenants to follow you into the night to either miss the battle, or never be seen again for example.
When dealing with people as the party face, role-playing is your best ally, both in and out of character, a succubus/seductress will always play on her targets sympathies or desires, use of detect thought spells, or gather information checks to find out about the target beforehand to find out what makes their target tick, and capitalize on their weakness to get exactly what you want.

Thanks for the advice though I'd like to pick your brain on a few more things.

My DMs game isn't exactly normal D&D so I've been a bit vague but I wanted to ask a few more specific questions.

My DM has a custom Feat that lets you select a class and every level you gain +2 skill points every level in that class (These also get multiplied at first level). We also get plenty of feats. But we can also buy class abilities. What sort of class abilties would be important to nab assuming I had free reign over what abilities I could use.

We also get to pick class skills equal to our intelligence score if we don't like the current class list. I'm considering 10-12 int. What skills would you suggest assuming 10-12 skills and between 5-6 skills points a level (2 base + 2 feat + 1 human + potentially 1 for int)

If I were to pick around 5-6 skills to max out what would you suggest. Thinking Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, Gather Info, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device.

Also what sort of magic items would be must haves for a controller with sorcerer casting. Obviously I can't use rings of wizardry etc.

[Troacctid]

Fiend-Blooded is a good prestige class.

[One Step Two]

Thanks for the advice though I'd like to pick your brain on a few more things.

Happy to help, let's break it down point by point!

Your DM is using a few house rules which by looks of it makes for more interesting character building, so that's awesome. Since you can custom pick skills, what you've mentioned good selection so far. Bluff and Dipolmacy can be kept at near maximum, due to your Charisma letting you spend a few points elsewhere. However if Epic is anywhere on your horizon, don't forget to keep max Ranks of Knowledge (Arcana).

As for other places to invest skill points, 5 Points into Knowledge (Nobility) for the +2 synergy bonus to diplomacy is almost always a must. And if you can manage any spare points into Disguise and Forgery they can help with the social side of things. Mundane Disguise checks cannot be defeated by True Seeing, which helps a lot, and Forgery can only be detected by Forgery, so if you need to fake credentials to make people think that you're Ulrich von Liechtenstein, unless they have Forgery too, they wont be able to tell!

If you can straight up buy class abilities, let me be a little tongue in cheek, and point out the Succubus Savage Class from Savage Species, and literally buy your way into being a Succubus! But if that's a little much, and it kinda is, other class features that come to mind include: Charnel/Scabrous/Enervating Touch of the Dread necromancer (Heroes of Horror) to let you deal negative levels like a succubus can, The Mindbender (Complete Arcane) has telepathy, mind reading and powerful charm effects, which tie in nicely into the seductress powers of the succubus. And the Master of Many forms (Complete adventurer) for more shape shifting prowess.

I hope that gives you some food for thought!


Edit: One question, do you have freedom of choice for races, or is Human a must?

[Crake]

With all this in mind, the build will end up looking like this: Bard 6/Lyric Thamaturge 4/Sublime Chord 1/Malconvoker 9

This will net you with a host of social skills, Full casting of 9th level spells by 18th level, and you'll be the best darn summoner of evil outsiders around. The bardic music can be used to fuel the Lyric Spell feat from Complete adventurer, to get even more spells out in a day.

I just want to point out, that build wouldn't get 9ths until exactly level 20. Sublime chord normally doesn't get 9ths until level 19, and malconvoker delays spellcasting by 1 level, so you'd be 3 levels behind a wizard or 2 levels behind a sorcerer.

[Troacctid]

You should be taking your 1st level of Malconvoker before entering Sublime Chord, so that your spellcasting is not delayed at all.

[Thurbane]

Tiefling Beguiler Enchanter with the Fiendish Wings graft?

Never mind, didn't read the OP properly. Swap out Beguiler for Enchanter.

[TheifofZ]

Well. Everyone already covered most of it, but an important note is that the Sorcerer class gets most of the tools to be a good 'succubus' already out the gate.
Bluff/Diplomacy are Class Skills already, and Charisma is your casting stat.
Pick up the Charm/Dominate spells, plunk a few feats into Enchantment specializations, and so on.

Since your DM is letting you 'buy' class abilities, I'd also suggest abilities that lend well to the whole 'control' theme. (Since I'm assuming you don't necessarily want to be the D&D Succubus monster, but the broader scope of 'Seductive demon'.)
Mindbender grants good Telepathy and a set of decent mind-control abilities, for instance; usually the partial casting is a bit too punishing to make it work, but...
Basically being a PrC without actually taking the levels in it might be a bit much.

[Andry]

Outsider wings wings feat from Races of Faerun on a tiefling sorcerer will grant you wings and a fly speed of your land speed.

[Thurbane]

Outsider wings wings feat from Races of Faerun on a tiefling sorcerer will grant you wings and a fly speed of your land speed.

Good catch.

If you want to be spontaneous, maybe consider Wizard/Enchanter with some of the feats and ACFs that allow (partial) spontaneous casting. Maybe some reserve feats, too.

If you go into Archmage, you can make some of your spells into SLAs.

[Reprimand]

Edit: One question, do you have freedom of choice for races, or is Human a must?


First off sorry for not responding to this I had a few crazy days in a row but were only using core races and not the racial variants of each race such as fire elf etc.

So literally all the races out of PHB as the DM thinks stuff like Lesser Aasamair is kind of annoying. I picked human for the extra feat or class ability and the additional skill point since none of the other core races have a cha bonus.

Are there as must related Enchantment feats I should take besides spell focus etc?

Also becoming a prepared caster essentially costs a feat as all spell casters otherwise use the sorcerer spellcasting formula except that they pick their own casting stat with some exceptions such as divine casters can't use cha.

My DM is essentially using the generic class rules but with more class abilities to buy and more customization rules. As a result PRCs are closed off but I can likely buy abilities from those classes such as mindbender's telepathy. So assuming I can buy whatever PRC abilities I what would be the best abilities I can buy for a party face/enchanter.

[etrpgb]

Sorcerer / Mindbender (1 or 3) / Malconvoker seems to fit the bill fairly well. The main problem is the lack of skills point, you will require an high Int and Cha.

About the race, did you consider the Spirit Hellbred from the Fiendish Codex?

Edit: Fiendish Codex II, it would be nice because you can literally being the spirit of Succubus.

[AnachroNinja]

Edit: Unfortunately, the Beguiler does not have access to Summoner Monster III, which is required for the Malconvoker (found in complete scoundrel). The only means that don't require odd rules interpretation is a custome Runestaff with the spell inscribed into it.



Not super helpful to the OP but thought I'd comment, a Beguiler can qualify via arcane disciple: summoning domain which isn't any kind of odd rules interpretation. It's actually not a bad entry for a malconvoker, something I hadn't considered before this. Good way to get planar binding and such.

As far as the OPs actual question... Sounds like you really just want to take a sorcerer, use some hold person, level dragon, summoning type spells, and give it a fiendish flavor. By the DMG you can refluff spells anyway, but worst case the feat Spell Thematics will let you make all your spells seems fiendish in nature.

[One Step Two]

First off sorry for not responding to this I had a few crazy days in a row but were only using core races and not the racial variants of each race such as fire elf etc.

So literally all the races out of PHB as the DM thinks stuff like Lesser Aasamair is kind of annoying. I picked human for the extra feat or class ability and the additional skill point since none of the other core races have a cha bonus.

Are there as must related Enchantment feats I should take besides spell focus etc?

Also becoming a prepared caster essentially costs a feat as all spell casters otherwise use the sorcerer spellcasting formula except that they pick their own casting stat with some exceptions such as divine casters can't use cha.

My DM is essentially using the generic class rules but with more class abilities to buy and more customization rules. As a result PRCs are closed off but I can likely buy abilities from those classes such as mindbender's telepathy. So assuming I can buy whatever PRC abilities I what would be the best abilities I can buy for a party face/enchanter.

That idea of generic classes and buying features seems pretty good as a balance tool, I might need to borrow that!

Races are core only, which is fine. I know you wanted to avoid templates but there are two LA +0 Templates from Dragon Magazine you may want to consider. Magic-Blooded (Dragon 306), +2 Cha, -2 Wis, and a few good SLAs; and Unseelie Fey (Dragon Compendium Vol), -2 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Con, +2 Cha, and unique abilities that you can pick from, most notably is a 5ft Aura which makes people take penalties to saving throws eqaul to your Chrisma Modifier which can help you do your thing as an enchanter!

Now, since I don't know exactly what sourcers you're allowed, I did some digging and grabbed The Enchanters handbook (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?471594-Enchanter-Handbook-D-amp-D-3-5-(Zarzak-CantripN)) and Beguilers Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=363.0), which cover a wide range of discussions about maximising your assets as a social focused enchanter. Most Notably, is taking the Arcane Discipline Feat and picking the Domination Domain for the Spells True Dominate and Monstrous Thrall, but it uses your wisdom for the DCs, so perhaps chek with your DM if you can alter that at all.

I hope this helps!