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Duke Malagigi
2007-07-24, 02:04 PM
To me wizards should be the scientests of the D&D game. They represent knowledge, insight and a fundemental unerstanding of the world around them. So why don't they get more than two skill points and why aren't their spells dependant on scientific skills? This should include such fields as biology (as organic studies). This is my humble proposal and in addition to the standard eight schools of magic. This would require raising the skill points to either four or six. So, is this a good idea or not? This will also devide Knowledge (Nature) in to two skills, Knowledge (Geology), Knowledge (Meteorology) and Knowledge (Organic Studies).

Cold-based spells
Knowledge (Chemistry)
Example spells: Wall of Ice and Cone of Cold.

Fire-based spells
Knowledge (Chemistry)
Example spells: Fireball, Burning Hands, Wall of Fire and Meteor Swarm.

Light-based spells
Knowledge (General Physics)
Example spells: Dancing Lights, Light and Prismatic Spray.

Sound-based spells
Knowledge (General Physics)
Example spells: Shatter, Shout and Ghost Sounds.

Gravity-based spells
Knowledge (General Physics)
Example spells: Levitate, Fly, Overland Flight and Reverse Gravity.

Electrical spells
Knowledge (General Physics)
Example spells: Shocking Grasp and Lightning Bolt.

Mind affecting spells
Knowledge (Psychology)
Example spells: Charm Person and Dominate Person.

Weather-based spells
Knowledge (Meteorology)
Example spells: Wall of Wind.

Optical illusions
Knowledge (General Physics)
Example spells: Invisibility and Minor Image.

Shadow
Knowledge (General Physics)
Example spells: Shadow Conjuration and Shadow Evocation.

Summoning and teleporting spells
Knowledge (the Planes A.K.A. Astrophysics)
Example spells: All Summon Monster spells, Gate and Mount.

Other conjuration spells
Knowledge (General Physics)
Example spells: Wall of Iron, Fabricate and Genesis (that and Knowledge (Astrophysics)).

Divination
Scry, Knowledge (General Physics)
Knowledge (Any science)
Example spells: Detect Magic, Detect Alignment (any) and True Seeing.

Physical alteration spells
Knowledge (General Physics)
Example spells: The Polymorph spells and Flesh to Stone.

Abjuration
Knowledge (General Physics).

Necromancy
Knowledge (Organic Studies)

They would need to make casting checks with the following formula with the appropriate skill above.


Spell Level DC
0-3rd 5+spell levelx2
4th-6th 10+spell levelx2
7th-9th 15+spell levelx2
10th-12th 20+spell levelx2
13th-15th 25+spell levelx2
16th-18th 30+spell levelx2

Every five points rolled above the DC of the spell counts as a spell level increase for the purpose of metamagic but for that casting only and only using meta-magic feats the wizard knows.

Do any of you think these are good ideas?

BooBooSpooki
2007-07-24, 02:31 PM
I answer as someone who is ignorant about complex game mechanics, but I agree that I always thought it strange that wizards receive so many skill points. I justified it to myself, though, by thinking:
1) Magic itself is a skill that one invests a LOT of time into to cast arcane spells
2) Balance-wise, INT is a wizard's main score, so they should be limited in that regard, else become not only Jacks of all Trades, but Masters of All

Akennedy
2007-07-24, 03:36 PM
Instead of levels X through X, make certain spell levels have such a DC? That seems to make more sense?

The Demented One
2007-07-24, 03:58 PM
Thermodynamics? In a medieval game setting? I don't think so, Tim. Maybe for d20 Modern, but science as we know didn't really exist until around the 16th-17th century.

Arbitrarity
2007-07-24, 04:38 PM
Increasing DC by level doesn't entirely make sense, with the potential exception of caster level.

Furthermore, DC's are obscenely high. They increase more rapidly than skill ranks, even moreso with the addition of greater spell levels. DC 48 to cast a 9'th level spell? Ok, so.. say +10 from int, +20 from ranks... 15% chance?

Duke Malagigi
2007-07-24, 05:39 PM
Increasing DC by level doesn't entirely make sense, with the potential exception of caster level.

Furthermore, DC's are obscenely high. They increase more rapidly than skill ranks, even moreso with the addition of greater spell levels. DC 48 to cast a 9'th level spell? Ok, so.. say +10 from int, +20 from ranks... 15% chance?

The list goes by spell level, not caster level.

Duke Malagigi
2007-07-24, 05:41 PM
Thermodynamics? In a medieval game setting? I don't think so, Tim. Maybe for d20 Modern, but science as we know didn't really exist until around the 16th-17th century.

Then I'll change it to some sort of chemistry based skill instead.

Arbitrarity
2007-07-24, 08:28 PM
Oooh, I see. So epicness is built in? K, that makes sense suddenly. Now 9'th level spells are DC 33, which is pretty easy to make.. damn.

You know, this could be problematic. Because, using core only, I can crank a wizard's knowledge skills all up to +37. Which is free extend through twin.

Curse these "DC's". They make everything either: "Break the char till they can make all the checks" or "gimp em. Gimp em bad"

Duke Malagigi
2007-07-25, 12:12 AM
Oooh, I see. So epicness is built in? K, that makes sense suddenly. Now 9'th level spells are DC 33, which is pretty easy to make.. damn.

You know, this could be problematic. Because, using core only, I can crank a wizard's knowledge skills all up to +37. Which is free extend through twin.

Curse these "DC's". They make everything either: "Break the char till they can make all the checks" or "gimp em. Gimp em bad"

Simple, they don't get the meta-magic bonus if they take a 10. The meta-magic bonus only takes affect if there's a chance of failure. Also using this method wizards are mostly spontaneous casters, they only need to memorize spells if they want to take a 10 on casting checks. Either way wizards still require spell books.

The Demented One
2007-07-25, 12:15 AM
Then I'll change it to some sort of chemistry based skill instead.
Even chemistry I'm a tad uncomfortable with. Medieval time period, science was pretty much alchemy, herbology, astronomy, and "lol God did it."* Mechanically, it seems like a good idea, but the flavor's just off a bit.

*And any other medieval sciences I forgot.

Demented
2007-07-25, 02:54 AM
My generic whinging.
First off, Wizards have never needed scientific skills because they never do science. They do magic, and in particular the skill Spellcraft. They don't study Knowledge (Architecture) to create a Magnificent Mansion, they study the components needed to cast the spell, and the art of scribing the spell into their spellbooks.

Looking further, any understanding of science as we know it would be turned upside down due to magic. Sometimes literally, in the case of Reverse Gravity. Historically our knowledge has been crude and misinformed, and probably still is, we just don't know it yet. What benefit are Wizards going to get from studying the limited form of physics available when they'll just as likely be busy telling those same laws of physics to "shut up and sit down"? Frankly, a Wizard would learn science through magic, not the other way around.

You can re-flavor it however you like, of course, but I'd just like to say that I don't favor this flavor, baby.


As for the crunch, well, I don't mind that so much. It's not a horrid idea to combine skills and spellcasting... For an int-based caster. (Do that with the spontaneous casters and somebody's gonna getta hurt real bad!) Just know that you'll be busy all (of the metaphorical) night getting it balanced so that the min-maxers can't eat you.

Arbitrarity
2007-07-25, 07:24 AM
Simple, they don't get the meta-magic bonus if they take a 10. The meta-magic bonus only takes affect if there's a chance of failure. Also using this method wizards are mostly spontaneous casters, they only need to memorize spells if they want to take a 10 on casting checks. Either way wizards still require spell books.

I'm not taking 10. My knowledges are all +37, which I then roll a d20 on.

mikeejimbo
2007-07-25, 09:49 AM
Not to nitpick, but shouldn't weather spells be "Meteorology"? Also, I think Electrical spells should be Physics rather than Chemistry.

Duke Malagigi
2007-07-25, 10:22 AM
Not to nitpick, but shouldn't weather spells be "Meteorology"? Also, I think Electrical spells should be Physics rather than Chemistry.

Thank you for the suggestions. I made those changes as you advised.

Duke Malagigi
2007-07-25, 10:42 AM
I'm not taking 10. My knowledges are all +37, which I then roll a d20 on.

At which level and which spells? Of course you could face potential catastrophic spell failure if you have a truly sadistic DM, especialy if you're interrupted while casting. It's not every day you see some poor wizard accidentally internalizing a magic missle, fireball, horrid wilting or avasculate spell. This could only happen of course if you failed by 20 or more.