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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next My take on a full Necromancer class [PEACH]



Llama513
2017-03-02, 02:22 AM
This version of the class was inspired by the version of the class that Lazorus is working on presented here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?516400-True-Necromancer-5e-converstion-(full-class))

The homebrewery to my version is presented here (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/S1Cv9ESqe).

GalacticAxekick
2017-03-02, 03:02 AM
So a few things:

The Necromancer is proficient with simple weapons and no armours, but may start with martial weapons and shields. Why?
So One With Death. Gaining undead fortitude is a fun and thematic way to help the Necromancer survive on d6 hit dice. I love it. But resistance to all three bludgeoning, piercing and slashing is immense. Immense because this effectively doubles the Necromancer's HP in the face of weapon attacks and welcomes the Necromancer to the front lines. I understand that some of the more powerful undead, such as Wights, have those resistances. But they're devout front-liners who need such resistances to get by, while the Necromancer has access to spells. Natural armour might be a fair alternative, as long as its low enough. Maybe it could even scale!

I'm not certain that the feature is too strong, but I'd look into it. Short of playtesting or running the math, I'd ask others on the forum to give it a look-see.
Wave of Desecration has a lot going on. Probably too much for a single feature. I'd either break it up into several features granted piece by piece or trim it. Maybe one low-ish level feature that lets you seize control of undead within an AoE, as an action (once per target per day). Then a higher level feature that lets you empower your undead (expending a spell slot as if you were re-casting Animate Dead on an already animated undead under you control). The necrotic damage AoE might be a discrete feature as well, though personally I don't think it's really necessary or interesting, as it just deals damage.
Phylactery of the Lich makes many assumptions about the setting, campaign and PC: access to 10 days time, access to a tomb, access to 10 000 gp (or the materials it buys), the feasibility of sacrificing a sentient, the viability of spending no more than 24 days outside your home plane (or the existence of planes, for this penalty to mean anything). As much as possible, class features should avoid strings attached, or else some characters will level up and gain too much/too little.

The phylactery should probably be free, produced of normal spell components for the sake of accessibility, and produced anywhere the Necromancer could comfortably rest, probably taking no more than a day. The planar penalty and sentient sacrifice should probably be removed entirely.

Keep in mind, though, not all liches in 5e have a phylactery. The lich's rejuvenation feature reads: "If it has a phylactery, a destroyed lich gains a new body in 1d10 days, regaining all its hit points and becoming active again. The new body appears within 5 feet of the phylactery." This in mind, you could forgo the phylactery and rejuvenation entirely and instead grant other lich traits, such as a variation of Paralyzing Touch, Frightening Gaze, Disrupt Life (there's that necrotic AoE you wanted), the various condition immunities (charmed, exhaustion, frightened, paralyzed, poisoned), damage resistances, saving throws, senses and natural armour.

Llama513
2017-03-02, 10:52 AM
So a few things:

The Necromancer is proficient with simple weapons and no armours, but may start with martial weapons and shields. Why?
So One With Death. Gaining undead fortitude is a fun and thematic way to help the Necromancer survive on d6 hit dice. I love it. But resistance to all three bludgeoning, piercing and slashing is immense. Immense because this effectively doubles the Necromancer's HP in the face of weapon attacks and welcomes the Necromancer to the front lines. I understand that some of the more powerful undead, such as Wights, have those resistances. But they're devout front-liners who need such resistances to get by, while the Necromancer has access to spells. Natural armour might be a fair alternative, as long as its low enough. Maybe it could even scale!

I'm not certain that the feature is too strong, but I'd look into it. Short of playtesting or running the math, I'd ask others on the forum to give it a look-see.
Wave of Desecration has a lot going on. Probably too much for a single feature. I'd either break it up into several features granted piece by piece or trim it. Maybe one low-ish level feature that lets you seize control of undead within an AoE, as an action (once per target per day). Then a higher level feature that lets you empower your undead (expending a spell slot as if you were re-casting Animate Dead on an already animated undead under you control). The necrotic damage AoE might be a discrete feature as well, though personally I don't think it's really necessary or interesting, as it just deals damage.
Phylactery of the Lich makes many assumptions about the setting, campaign and PC: access to 10 days time, access to a tomb, access to 10 000 gp (or the materials it buys), the feasibility of sacrificing a sentient, the viability of spending no more than 24 days outside your home plane (or the existence of planes, for this penalty to mean anything). As much as possible, class features should avoid strings attached, or else some characters will level up and gain too much/too little.

The phylactery should probably be free, produced of normal spell components for the sake of accessibility, and produced anywhere the Necromancer could comfortably rest, probably taking no more than a day. The planar penalty and sentient sacrifice should probably be removed entirely.

Keep in mind, though, not all liches in 5e have a phylactery. The lich's rejuvenation feature reads: "If it has a phylactery, a destroyed lich gains a new body in 1d10 days, regaining all its hit points and becoming active again. The new body appears within 5 feet of the phylactery." This in mind, you could forgo the phylactery and rejuvenation entirely and instead grant other lich traits, such as a variation of Paralyzing Touch, Frightening Gaze, Disrupt Life (there's that necrotic AoE you wanted), the various condition immunities (charmed, exhaustion, frightened, paralyzed, poisoned), damage resistances, saving throws, senses and natural armour.

The starting equipment I missed that line and will be removing it,

I will fix one with dead, and split up Wave of Desecration, and make the Phylactery not so setting specific, thanks for pointing out those issues,

I am rather busy this week so I will make changes when I can, in addition to adding the other Archetypes and their spell list

The_Jette
2017-03-02, 02:54 PM
So a few things:

Keep in mind, though, not all liches in 5e have a phylactery. The lich's rejuvenation feature reads: "If it has a phylactery, a destroyed lich gains a new body in 1d10 days, regaining all its hit points and becoming active again. The new body appears within 5 feet of the phylactery." This in mind, you could forgo the phylactery and rejuvenation entirely and instead grant other lich traits, such as a variation of Paralyzing Touch, Frightening Gaze, Disrupt Life (there's that necrotic AoE you wanted), the various condition immunities (charmed, exhaustion, frightened, paralyzed, poisoned), damage resistances, saving throws, senses and natural armour.


Actually, the point of the quote isn't that not all Liches have phylacteries. The point is that the Lich can continuously regenerate as long as its phylactery hasn't been destroyed. If this wasn't in the text then it would be implied that Liches can continue rejuvenating even after their phylactery has been destroyed. One of the requirements for becoming a Lich is the creation of a Phylactery. Just throwing that out there.

GalacticAxekick
2017-03-02, 04:36 PM
Actually, the point of the quote isn't that not all Liches have phylacteries. The point is that the Lich can continuously regenerate as long as its phylactery hasn't been destroyed. If this wasn't in the text then it would be implied that Liches can continue rejuvenating even after their phylactery has been destroyed. One of the requirements for becoming a Lich is the creation of a Phylactery. Just throwing that out there.Noted! My mistake

Llama513
2017-03-03, 12:25 AM
I finished putting in the spell lists, and split Desecration Wave into Control Undead, which you get at 5th and Enhance Undead which you get at 14th, I removed the AOE damage, as I don't feel it was necessary

Llama513
2017-03-09, 10:08 PM
Tweaked the wording of some of the abilities to be smoother, and fit the flavor better, also added Soul Rend to the spell list

I think I have got the abilities figured out, but as this is very different to my usual classes I am not sure

Let me know if there is anything glaringly wrong, or if their are little things that you think would improve the class

Thinking about replacing Power of the Soul,

A creature you kill with a necromancy spell of 1st level or higher has its soul seperated from its body. Its soul is turned into a soul shard which floats in the air and orbits around you for the spell's duration. As a bonus action on each of your turns you can expend one or two of the shards, sending them streaking toward a point or points you chhose within 120 feet of you. Once a shard reaches its destination or impacts against a solid surface, the shard explodes. The explosion covers a 5 foot radius and either deals 2d6 necrotic damage, or grants 2d6 temporary hit points. If you choose to deal damage each creature in the explosion must make a Dexterity Saving throw, taking half as much damage on a success.

Will probably have to drop the damage and temp hp, but I think it will be a really interesting mechanic for the soul caster, and works better than what Power of the Soul is right now

Giegue
2017-03-09, 11:04 PM
It looks very fun/cool, that being said, it's a full spellbook caster that is getting only three levels with no features. I'm not sure how "balanced" that actually is, considering most "fullcasters" without spells known get at least five "blank" levels, if not more. Granted, the list is smaller than, say, the wizard list, but still can't help but wonder if this should be a spells-known caster instead. I am no expert on 5e balance by any means, so you should be fine and I think the features are cool/fun. I'm just not sure if it's too much on a full spellbook class or not...Other than that, good work!

Llama513
2017-03-09, 11:07 PM
It looks very fun/cool, that being said, it's a full spellbook caster that is getting only three levels with no features. I'm not sure how "balanced" that actually is, considering most "fullcasters" without spells known get at least five "blank" levels, if not more. Granted, the list is smaller than, say, the wizard list, but still can't help but wonder if this should be a spells-known caster instead. I am no expert on 5e balance by any means, so you should be fine and I think the features are cool/fun. I'm just not sure if it's too much on a full spellbook class or not...Other than that, good work!

Thank you very much, I am new to developing full caster classes, as such I am not sure about having them be a spell book, or spells known myself, I will see what others have to say, as I feel like the lack of spells that they have access to helps with them being a spell book caster, but I could be wrong

Llama513
2017-03-10, 12:10 AM
I changed Power of the Soul to be that you gain a soul shard from each creature that you kill with a necromancy spell of 1st level or higher, the damage will probably have to be dropped, but for now it gives how the mechanic will run,

Made it an action to expend a soul shard, as it was too powerful to leave as a bonus action

Lazorus
2017-03-10, 01:58 AM
Thanx for giving me the credits on the top. I DO like the Control Undead and a few other things, but why NO "Speak with the Dead" for the Soul Caster? Also, you have a typo on the Equipment you put "Ai Spell Book" which makes me think your spell book has an artificial intelligence...lol

Llama513
2017-03-10, 02:04 AM
Thanx for giving me the credits on the top. I DO like the Control Undead and a few other things, but why NO "Speak with the Dead" for the Soul Caster? Also, you have a typo on the Equipment you put "Ai Spell Book" which makes me think your spell book has an artificial intelligence...lol

Whjops, I'll fix the typo, as for the speak with dead, i guess it slipped my mind

Giegue
2017-03-10, 09:37 AM
Hey, this keeps getting better and better, though I do have a question. Do you mind if I use some of your custom spells for my own Necromancer-base class if I credit you in the doc (and link back to your doc in mine instead of re-stating their effects)? My class, BTW, I've been working on for a while, but it's more Divine than arcane, as yours is....but I am pretty bleh at making new spells, so I was wondering if you'd let me use a few of yours as long as I credit you as their creator?

Llama513
2017-03-10, 10:03 AM
Hey, this keeps getting better and better, though I do have a question. Do you mind if I use some of your custom spells for my own Necromancer-base class if I credit you in the doc (and link back to your doc in mine instead of re-stating their effects)? My class, BTW, I've been working on for a while, but it's more Divine than arcane, as yours is....but I am pretty bleh at making new spells, so I was wondering if you'd let me use a few of yours as long as I credit you as their creator?

Go for it, mortal coil an soul rend arent quite finished but the others are