3.5e What do you think on my Crusader build? And what Ancestral Relic should I take?

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Hello guys, I finally was able to finish my Crusader build(thank you guys for the help) :)

I am LG Human Crusader at level 4 that follow Moradin
Ability Scores:
16 str
14 dex
15 con
10 int
10 wis
10 cha

MANEUVER:
1 Crusader's Strike Devoted Spirit
1 Vanguard Strike Devoted Spirit
1 Leading the Attack White Raven
1 Charging Minotaur Stone Dragon
1 Stone Bones -> 2 Mountain Hammer Stone Dragon
2 Tactical Strike White Raven

STANCE:
1 Martial Spirit Devoted Spirit
1 Leading the Charge White Raven

Feats:
Power Attack, Extra Granted Maneuver, Combat Reflexes, Vexing Flanker, Endurance, Ancestral Relic().(I am Human with 2 flaws and the Endurance was an extra feat from the DM(every one get 1))

skills:
Balance 5
Diplomacy 5
Intimidate 5
jump 5
Knowledge History 1
Knowledge Religion 1
I have an extra 8 points I need to use

Armor:
Mithral Masterwork Full plate

Weapons:
Adamantine Greatsword, Masterwork
Adamantine Flail, heavy, Masterwork
Longbow, composite +3, Masterwork


This is a no magic game(kind of one, no casters as PC and DM made magic items) and the DM let me take Ancestral Relic and I want your help with choosing the Item that will be the relic.

We are fighting Evil Undead and Evil Outsiders.

I will take Leadership at level 6.

I want to focus on Devoted Spirit and White Raven.

I can use all 3.5E books.

[Darrin]

I am LG Human Crusader at level 4 that follow Moradin


I take it he's a little tall (http://discworld.wikia.com/wiki/Carrot_Ironfoundersson) for a dwarf?



skills:
Balance 5
Diplomacy 5
Intimidate 5
jump 5
Knowledge History 1
Knowledge Religion 1
I have an extra 8 points I need to use


Use the Skilled City-Dweller ACF from the Cityscape Web Enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) to swap your Ride skill for Tumble. Put 5 ranks into Tumble. Spend 2 skill points on the Twisted Charge skill trick (Complete Scoundrel), and maybe take a point off of Intimidate to pick up Nimble Charge as well.



Armor:
Mithral Masterwork Full plate


Darkleaf (A&EG) is cheaper, only +3000 GP instead of +9000 GP, and provides nearly the same benefits as mithral. If you do stick with mithral, then be aware that masterwork is included in the price of mithral, you don't have to pay for it separately. If you go with Darkleaf, the masterwork cost is NOT included, so make sure you add +150 GP.

With the money you save there, add the Durable and Restful properties (500 GP each, Dungeonscape). Easy Travel (+1500 GP, MIC) and Anti-Impact (+2000 GP, Complete Warrior) are worth considering. I think I mentioned Netcutter Spikes (150 GP, Races of the Wild) earlier. I'd also highly recommend picking up a Dwarven Buckler Axe +1 (1170 GP) with a Lesser Crystal of Arrow Reflection (2500 GP, MIC).



Weapons:
Adamantine Greatsword, Masterwork
Adamantine Flail, heavy, Masterwork
Longbow, composite +3, Masterwork


Use Starmetal (Complete Arcane) instead of adamantine. It's a little more expensive (+5000 GP instead of +3000 GP), but has the same properties/hardness as adamantine, and does +1d6 additional damage against extraplanar creatures, which will include most outsiders.

Why do you need a second adamantine weapon? If you're tussling with tanar'ri (demons), you'll probably want a Cold Iron flail.



This is a no magic game(kind of one, no casters as PC and DM made magic items) and the DM let me take Ancestral Relic and I want your help with choosing the Item that will be the relic.


An elvencraft longbow offers the best chassis for adding enhancements, as you have three different "weapons" that can be enchanted separately. You can put defensive/utility enhancements on either end of the quarterstaff (Eager, Warning, Defending, etc.) and then ranged enhancements on the longbow. Also, three slots for augment crystals. However, I don't know how often you'll actually be using the longbow.

More likely, the greatsword will be used most often, so that's probably what your Ancestral Relic should be... if you're enchanting it to +1, then I'd look at adding some of the Surges from DMGII to it. They cost +2000 GP each, but start with Caustic Surge and Flaming Surge, as the number of uses is based off your Constitution bonus. Holy Surge, Lightning Surge, and Icy Surge are based off of Charisma... and you don't have a bonus there.

And while you're there in DMGII, you may want to throw the Gloryborn template on your weapons (+600 GP ) and armor (+150 GP). The Gloryborn bonus is untyped, so you can probably put Gloryborn on both your full plate and the dwarven buckler axe for a +2 AC bonus when charging.

If you have any money left over, consider adding some low-level 1/day spells to your ancestral relic, as this adds both flavor and utility. A 1st level spell as a command word is pretty cheap: 360 GP. Some examples:


Endure elements, delay disease, and healthful rest last 24 hours. First is core, the other two are in the Spell Compendium.
Enlarge person for 10 rounds a day is a great buff for meatbag builds.
Protection from evil for 10 rounds could be pretty darned useful against evil outsiders and undead.
Benign transposition (Spell Compendium) or protective interposition (Forge of War) for oh so many tactical possibilities.
Blade of blood (PHBII) is fantastic on a Crusader: +3d6 damage and the 5 points goes into your Steely Resolve where you can heal it with Crusader's Strike/Martial Spirit.
Blockade (Complete Scoundrel) to create choke points, provide cover, block corridors/doors,
Fist of stone (Spell Compendium) gets you +6 Str bonus and a slam attack for 10 rounds.
Ice slick (Frostburn) or impeding stones (Cityscape) for some BFC.
Instant of power is an immediate action to give you or an ally a +4 enhancement bonus on an attack, save, or damage roll.
Lesser vigor (Spell Compendium) to heal 11 HP every day.
Ray of resurgence (Lost Empires of Faerun) restores Str damage and removes fatigue.
Vigilant slumber (Complete Mage) for additional security.
Wall of smoke (Spell Compendium) for concealment/BFC/debuffing.
Weapon shift (Spell Compendium) to turn your greatsword into a guisarme, spiked chain, longspear, mancatcher, etc. for 10 rounds.
Winged watcher (Spell Compendium) only lasts one round, but one round with a 40' fly speed (double move or withdraw for 80', run for 160') provides an awful lot of utility to an earth-hugger.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

I take it he's a little tall (http://discworld.wikia.com/wiki/Carrot_Ironfoundersson) for a dwarf?



Use the Skilled City-Dweller ACF from the Cityscape Web Enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) to swap your Ride skill for Tumble. Put 5 ranks into Tumble. Spend 2 skill points on the Twisted Charge skill trick (Complete Scoundrel), and maybe take a point off of Intimidate to pick up Nimble Charge as well.



Darkleaf (A&EG) is cheaper, only +3000 GP instead of +9000 GP, and provides nearly the same benefits as mithral. If you do stick with mithral, then be aware that masterwork is included in the price of mithral, you don't have to pay for it separately. If you go with Darkleaf, the masterwork cost is NOT included, so make sure you add +150 GP.

With the money you save there, add the Durable and Restful properties (500 GP each, Dungeonscape). Easy Travel (+1500 GP, MIC) and Anti-Impact (+2000 GP, Complete Warrior) are worth considering. I think I mentioned Netcutter Spikes (150 GP, Races of the Wild) earlier. I'd also highly recommend picking up a Dwarven Buckler Axe +1 (1170 GP) with a Lesser Crystal of Arrow Reflection (2500 GP, MIC).



Use Starmetal (Complete Arcane) instead of adamantine. It's a little more expensive (+5000 GP instead of +3000 GP), but has the same properties/hardness as adamantine, and does +1d6 additional damage against extraplanar creatures, which will include most outsiders.

Why do you need a second adamantine weapon? If you're tussling with tanar'ri (demons), you'll probably want a Cold Iron flail.



An elvencraft longbow offers the best chassis for adding enhancements, as you have three different "weapons" that can be enchanted separately. You can put defensive/utility enhancements on either end of the quarterstaff (Eager, Warning, Defending, etc.) and then ranged enhancements on the longbow. Also, three slots for augment crystals. However, I don't know how often you'll actually be using the longbow.

More likely, the greatsword will be used most often, so that's probably what your Ancestral Relic should be... if you're enchanting it to +1, then I'd look at adding some of the Surges from DMGII to it. They cost +2000 GP each, but start with Caustic Surge and Flaming Surge, as the number of uses is based off your Constitution bonus. Holy Surge, Lightning Surge, and Icy Surge are based off of Charisma... and you don't have a bonus there.

And while you're there in DMGII, you may want to throw the Gloryborn template on your weapons (+600 GP ) and armor (+150 GP). The Gloryborn bonus is untyped, so you can probably put Gloryborn on both your full plate and the dwarven buckler axe for a +2 AC bonus when charging.

If you have any money left over, consider adding some low-level 1/day spells to your ancestral relic, as this adds both flavor and utility. A 1st level spell as a command word is pretty cheap: 360 GP. Some examples:


Endure elements, delay disease, and healthful rest last 24 hours. First is core, the other two are in the Spell Compendium.
Enlarge person for 10 rounds a day is a great buff for meatbag builds.
Protection from evil for 10 rounds could be pretty darned useful against evil outsiders and undead.
Benign transposition (Spell Compendium) or protective interposition (Forge of War) for oh so many tactical possibilities.
Blade of blood (PHBII) is fantastic on a Crusader: +3d6 damage and the 5 points goes into your Steely Resolve where you can heal it with Crusader's Strike/Martial Spirit.
Blockade (Complete Scoundrel) to create choke points, provide cover, block corridors/doors,
Fist of stone (Spell Compendium) gets you +6 Str bonus and a slam attack for 10 rounds.
Ice slick (Frostburn) or impeding stones (Cityscape) for some BFC.
Instant of power is an immediate action to give you or an ally a +4 enhancement bonus on an attack, save, or damage roll.
Lesser vigor (Spell Compendium) to heal 11 HP every day.
Ray of resurgence (Lost Empires of Faerun) restores Str damage and removes fatigue.
Vigilant slumber (Complete Mage) for additional security.
Wall of smoke (Spell Compendium) for concealment/BFC/debuffing.
Weapon shift (Spell Compendium) to turn your greatsword into a guisarme, spiked chain, longspear, mancatcher, etc. for 10 rounds.
Winged watcher (Spell Compendium) only lasts one round, but one round with a 40' fly speed (double move or withdraw for 80', run for 160') provides an awful lot of utility to an earth-hugger.


I don't have any gold, we can get all the items as master craft and we can use materials that we can get.
I can't buy magic items in this game. The only why to get magic items is by finding them(all DM made).
I will try to get the Starmetal and I did change the Flail to Cold Iron.
I think a ring will let me do more then a sword as an ancestral relic(I was talking with one from my group about it).
And about the Skilled City-Dweller ACF I need to check with the DM.
How did you get the price for all the spells 1/day?

BTW, I am not a tall dwarf, I am a strong Human girl that live in a dwarf city.

[Darrin]

I think a ring will let me do more then a sword as an ancestral relic(I was talking with one from my group about it).
And about the Skilled City-Dweller ACF I need to check with the DM.
How did you get the price for all the spells 1/day?


I'm not sure exactly how Ancestral Relic works with your DM's campaign, but in Book of Exalted Deeds, you can sacrifice any items/goods/loot at a 1:1 ratio to add enchantments to your relic. This means you can create your own magic item, even add magical effects "a la carte" whenever you get some extra loot and a little spare time (1 day per 1000 GP sacrificed). At 4th level, your ancestral relic has a maximum price limit of 2700 GP, or roughly the price of a +1 magic weapon with 300-400ish GP to spare. Unfortunately, this probably rules out a masterwork starmetal greatsword, as the starmetal is worth +5000 GP all on it's own.

However... this may not be something that has occurred to your DM, so you may want to discuss it before you pull this trick... if you can equip yourself with multiple adamantine weapons (or starmetal, whichever special material is more expensive), then you can go off and sacrifice one of those weapons to your ancestral relic for 3000 GP worth of magical effects. Actually, you can do this with any item that has a value in GP, even mundane items/equipment, so long as you've got enough of it to cover the difference between current cost of your relic with the cost of the magic effect you want to add.

The price for a command word spell effect is on page 285 of the DMG: 1 (spell level) x 1 (caster level) x 1800 GP (command word) = 1800 GP. For uses per day, you multiply by n/5, where n = number of uses per day. 1800 / 5 = 360 GP. For immediate or swift-action spells, you'd probably want to switch that to use-activated, in which case 2000 / 5 = 400 GP.

What do you want the ring to do? There aren't a lot of low-cost rings in the neighborhood of 2700 GP (mostly feather fall, protection, and sustenance), but there aren't a lot of restrictions on what sort of magical effects you can put on a ring.



BTW, I am not a tall dwarf, I am a strong Human girl that live in a dwarf city.

It's a Discworld joke, or rather, a more general joke about an exaggerated character trait that subverts a common stereotype. Carrot Ironfoundersson is a "dwarf" that's 6-foot-6-inches tall. Adopted, but every inch is thoroughly dwarf.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

I'm not sure exactly how Ancestral Relic works with your DM's campaign, but in Book of Exalted Deeds, you can sacrifice any items/goods/loot at a 1:1 ratio to add enchantments to your relic. This means you can create your own magic item, even add magical effects "a la carte" whenever you get some extra loot and a little spare time (1 day per 1000 GP sacrificed). At 4th level, your ancestral relic has a maximum price limit of 2700 GP, or roughly the price of a +1 magic weapon with 300-400ish GP to spare. Unfortunately, this probably rules out a masterwork starmetal greatsword, as the starmetal is worth +5000 GP all on it's own.

However... this may not be something that has occurred to your DM, so you may want to discuss it before you pull this trick... if you can equip yourself with multiple adamantine weapons (or starmetal, whichever special material is more expensive), then you can go off and sacrifice one of those weapons to your ancestral relic for 3000 GP worth of magical effects. Actually, you can do this with any item that has a value in GP, even mundane items/equipment, so long as you've got enough of it to cover the difference between current cost of your relic with the cost of the magic effect you want to add.

The price for a command word spell effect is on page 285 of the DMG: 1 (spell level) x 1 (caster level) x 1800 GP (command word) = 1800 GP. For uses per day, you multiply by n/5, where n = number of uses per day. 1800 / 5 = 360 GP. For immediate or swift-action spells, you'd probably want to switch that to use-activated, in which case 2000 / 5 = 400 GP.

What do you want the ring to do? There aren't a lot of low-cost rings in the neighborhood of 2700 GP (mostly feather fall, protection, and sustenance), but there aren't a lot of restrictions on what sort of magical effects you can put on a ring.



It's a Discworld joke, or rather, a more general joke about an exaggerated character trait that subverts a common stereotype. Carrot Ironfoundersson is a "dwarf" that's 6-foot-6-inches tall. Adopted, but every inch is thoroughly dwarf.

Basically A ring take less space on me(there are max 2 ring) and that why I will not be left with a weapon that can be weaker then my party weapons(The DM made items are very strong).

I know this was a joke, that was my PC reaction.

Thank you, now I just need to finish it before the next meeting :)

[Particle_Man]

Since you are LG anyhow, maybe look at the Law Devotion feat? Either it makes you harder to hit, or it adds to your attack roll (which since you have PA means you can add to your damage roll, unless you are already "maxing out" PA).

I believe at higher levels you could take a feat from PHB II that gives you an attack of opportunity on opponents that *don't* move, which meshes quite nicely with the devoted spirit stance that gives you an attack of opportunity on opponents that do. That said, at higher levels if you don't multiclass you want to use at least one feat to get an 8th level stance at 15th level (or ask your DM if you can delay taking a stance from 14th to 15th level).

You might also later on look later on at taking a shadow hand maneuver that lets you do a limited range dimension door as a move action, but that is really a matter of taste.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Since you are LG anyhow, maybe look at the Law Devotion feat? Either it makes you harder to hit, or it adds to your attack roll (which since you have PA means you can add to your damage roll, unless you are already "maxing out" PA).

I believe at higher levels you could take a feat from PHB II that gives you an attack of opportunity on opponents that *don't* move, which meshes quite nicely with the devoted spirit stance that gives you an attack of opportunity on opponents that do. That said, at higher levels if you don't multiclass you want to use at least one feat to get an 8th level stance at 15th level (or ask your DM if you can delay taking a stance from 14th to 15th level).

You might also later on look later on at taking a shadow hand maneuver that lets you do a limited range dimension door as a move action, but that is really a matter of taste.

I really hate the 1/day stuff and I have 2 flanking partners.
My DM did allow me to delay it to lv15.
I want to play Crusader 20 or more(I don't really know how it will end but last game with this GM end at lv23.).
I will search for this feat.
Thank you for the help.

EDIT:
I will need some time until I will get this feat :)

DEFENSIVE SWEEP
You sweep your weapon through the area you threaten,
warding away opponents and forcing them to move away or
suffer a fearsome blow.
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +15.
Benefi t: If an opponent begins his action adjacent to you
and does not move, he provokes an attack of opportunity
from you immediately after his turn ends, provided that you
threaten the square that he occupies. Any sort of movement,
including a 5-foot step, allows the opponent to avoid provoking
this special attack of opportunity. This feat does not give
you any ability to make additional attacks of opportunity in
a given round.
Special: A fi ghter can select Defensive Sweep as one of
his fi ghter bonus feats.