Homebrew Magic Spellbook - overpowered it OK?

[gfishfunk]

Simple idea: the wizard can cast any spell out of the Spellbook as if it were a spell scroll, but it permanently removes that spell from the spell book.

Thoughts?

[Cybren]

as a magic item separate from the wizards spellbook? or like an alternate rule for how their own personal book works?

[gfishfunk]

A found magic item that a wizard can adopt as a Spellbook. Or maybe start the game with. Either way.

[Cybren]

Sounds like a really cool and powerful and evocative artifact. Seems a bit too big to be a "regular" magic item.

[Verisichilli2de]

I'd have no problem with it. It's roughly the same as granting the user a stack of scrolls, but either more or less usable depending on how you rule that they have to locate the spell. Maybe say it takes an action to find the correct spell they are looking for?

[Typhon]

I like it and think that would be an excellent named item. (i.e. Holy Defender, Ring of Protection, you get they drift) Like Mages Tome.

[gfishfunk]

I'm thinking it's balanced even at low levels. It trades away permanent versatility for temporary benefit.

[Shaofoo]

The only thing that I can see is that you could erase and fill the book with high level spells and technically be able to cast said spells as much as there is space on the book, then you can just rewrite the spells back from memory or from another backup spellbook and do it all over again as long as time and money aren't an issue.

A spellbook usually has 100 pages, you could fit in 11 9th level spells to be cast as scrolls or any number of spells as you see fit.

[Strill]

I'm thinking it's balanced even at low levels. It trades away permanent versatility for temporary benefit.

But you're not trading permanent versatility. You just copy all the spells into a second spellbook before casting them from the book. Then later, you write them back in again for 10gp/spell level.

[sightlessrealit]

A bit to powerful and would at least be a legendary item.

As already stated as long as you had a back up spell book you could with minimal effort to just replace the spells you'v used.

But it adds alot of versatility and widens your overall spells per day since now you can have the spells you wouldn't prepare into the book and boom there as good if not better then preparing.

[Cybren]

You know, it would be one thing if this were an officially released wotc product but when someone homebrews something with the concept of "a spellbook that can cast any spell... once", it's generally a good idea to take them at face value and assume you aren't going to find some clever loophole

[Strill]

You know, it would be one thing if this were an officially released wotc product but when someone homebrews something with the concept of "a spellbook that can cast any spell... once", it's generally a good idea to take them at face value and assume you aren't going to find some clever loophole
It's not a clever loophole. It's a basic rule for spellbooks. If he didn't mean for it to be an actual spellbook subject to the rules on spellbooks, then he shouldn't have called it that.

[Dr. Cliché]

How about just making a list of spells that the book starts with, and saying that no more can be written into it? Or having a limited number of blank pages?

Then have it that when a spell is cast from it as a scroll, the page is destroyed as well. No new pages can be added to the book.

Alternatively, you could say that once a spell has been cast from the book as a scroll, that spell can never be copied back into the book.

[Cybren]

It's not a clever loophole. It's a basic rule for spellbooks. If he didn't mean for it to be an actual spellbook subject to the rules on spellbooks, then he shouldn't have called it that.

That's not really necessary, given its not an officially released item and we can infer intent because we are reasonable human beings

[Strill]

That's not really necessary, given its not an officially released item and we can infer intent because we are reasonable human beings

Yes, and from it being called a spellbook, you can infer that you can write spells into it. Because that's what you use spellbooks for.

[Cybren]

Yes, and from it being called a spellbook, you can infer that you can write spells into it. Because that's what you use spellbooks for.

Sure but the premise was "cast it once" not "cast it infinite times", so you can determine that clever loopholes to cast the spell more than once are taking the OPs premise in bad faith

[Theodoxus]

Make it able to cast any spell written into it as a ritual and call it good.

Honestly, I don't know why all spells aren't able to be 'ritualized' - it's not like you're gonna cast Fireball as a ritual and then carry it around until your run into something, hoping your concentration isn't broken...

Yeah, sure there's some spells that someone is gonna complain about when used as a ritual - but all it really does is save spell slots... instead of handwaving 8 hours of sleepy time, you handwave 10 minutes of ritually time... big deal.

[Millstone85]

Sure but the premise was "cast it once" not "cast it infinite times", so you can determine that clever loopholes to cast the spell more than once are taking the OPs premise in bad faithThat is your interpretation of the premise. A likely one for sure, but there is room for doubt.

Saying that "it permanently removes that spell from the spell book" might mean the spell can't ever be written back into the book, or it might just emphasize that the spell won't reappear at dawn or something.

[Dalebert]

There's no need to speculate wildly. Let's just ask. Here are the questions that come to mind.

1) If you copy a spell from the book into your personal spellbook, does that use up that spell?
2) Is it possible to write spells back into the book just like any other spare spellbook?

If "yes" to 1 and "no" to 2, then it's basically just a collection of scrolls in book form. If "no" and "no" then it's a slight upgrade to scrolls because you can copy and then also get one free casting. No big deal IMO. If "yes" to #2 then it's horrifically broken because it's basically letting you create spell scrolls for 10gp / level which is definitely not intended in 5e seeing as how creating any sort of scrolls at all is typically not possible without optional rules and even then it would be extremely expensive and time-consuming going by the cost of magic items.


A spellbook usually has 100 pages, you could fit in 11 9th level spells to be cast as scrolls or any number of spells as you see fit.

Sounds like either 2nd ed or 3.x. 5e doesn't break that down. A wizard can put all his spells in a spellbook in this edition. So glad they stopped bogging us down with such tedium.

[Dr. Cliché]

Sounds like either 2nd ed or 3.x. 5e doesn't break that down. A wizard can put all his spells in a spellbook in this edition. So glad they stopped bogging us down with such tedium.

Perhaps it was done so that wizards couldn't just copy spells into their book Ad infinitum, to the point where it would have to look like this:

https://img.labnol.org/di/wikipedia-print.jpg

[Millstone85]

There's no need to speculate wildly. Let's just ask.You are right.


Sounds like either 2nd ed or 3.x. 5e doesn't break that down. A wizard can put all his spells in a spellbook in this edition. So glad they stopped bogging us down with such tedium.Page 153 of the 5e PHB does describe the typical wizard spellbook as "a leather-bound tome with 100 blank vellum pages". However, I believe nothing is stopping a wizard from carrying two or more spellbooks, plus backups.

[Dalebert]

There's no reason a spell has to take up 9 pages. I always thought that was ridiculous. They don't state how much space a spell takes up. It could max out at a half a page for 9th level spells for all we know. There's just no need for that degree of complication and book-keeping to enjoy a game. It's a cool fluff thing. Anyone worried over whether there's enough space in a spell book for X levels worth of spells is trying too hard to achieve hyper-realism in an edition that largely escaped that demon. I think that's a big reason why this edition has been exponentially more popular. Please don't spoil my game with more math and bookkeeping than is absolutely necessary.

[Dr. Cliché]

There's no reason a spell has to take up 9 pages. I always thought that was ridiculous. They don't state how much space a spell takes up. It could max out at a half a page for 9th level spells for all we know. There's just no need for that degree of complication and book-keeping to enjoy a game. It's a cool fluff thing. Anyone worried over whether there's enough space in a spell book for X levels worth of spells is trying too hard to achieve hyper-realism in an edition that largely escaped that demon. I think that's a big reason why this edition has been exponentially more popular. Please don't spoil my game with more math and bookkeeping than is absolutely necessary.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/images/oots0306.gif

:smallbiggrin:

[Asmotherion]

That practically allows the Wizard to Scribe Scrolls using 50gp per level of the Spell (or 25 for his Shool of Magic). All they need is to keep a second Spellbook as referance.

I would not say it's Over-powered, not really. It is a very powerful ability, sure, and as long as you have a limited amount of pages it should be fine (AkA not stacking spell scrolls on downtime like crazy).

What you should be concerned is not Balance, mechanics-Wise so much, as the Level of Magic in your Campain; First of all, you are able to Create the equivalent of Legendary Magic Items (8th and 9th level spell scrolls) in less than 5 hours, and using around 450 gold. Consider how common this kind of Spellbooks are, and how wether or not characters other than the Attuned Wizard can use it. Can you just tear a page and give it to someone, or will that make it unfunctional? If you can, what is the price of spell scrolls in your campain? Consider this would make magic a lot more available and affortable, as you'd be able to purchase spell scrolls of 9th level for a very small price.

Now, for better balance, I would suggest expanding an appropriate spell slot of the same level when infusing such a pseudo-scroll with magic. It only makes sence, as it's essentially a magic item + it makes the otherwise too powerfull ability more balanced.

Overall, I think this is an excelent idea for an Eberon Campain, and could work in a Magocracy in the Forgotten Realms (ex Thay). I could also work well in a world were magic is kept a secret, such as a custom modern Setting. I also like the fact that it can be used as a pseudo-Vancian system, were wizards are still expected to prepare a number of specific spells during their rest, with the differance that, this time it's a bonus to their spellcasting, not a hinderance.