Homebrewing, but curious about what people want in the next psionic ruleset/class.

[Typhon]

Ok, I know that there is a forum specifically for homebrewing. I do currently have a thread there to help as well.

I am just curious what people who are waiting for WotC to drop their psionics are wanting to see. What are you hoping that it will look or play like?

If it breaks out into a full discussion even better. I know what I would like to see, but I just want to know what others are thinking.

[ChainsawFlwrcld]

I am just curious what people who are waiting for WotC to drop their psionics are wanting to see.

I'm hoping they drop psionics. I've been playing since Red Box and psionics has always been a cluster. They should just shoot it and be done with it.

[Typhon]

I'm hoping they drop psionics. I've been playing since Red Box and psionics has always been a cluster. They should just shoot it and be done with it.

Noted, but unhelpful. I do appreciate your stance, and I would like to know what you didn't like. If it is the part where telepathy and such, then we can scrap the spells that emulate those powers as well. If it is how badly they could overpower higher level characters, say like in 2nd ed, then I think you might be short sighted.

What could be done that might make them more attractive to you? What specifically do you want removed from them that might make them better?

I am really being honest and wanting concise input not just things like the above quote.

[DragonSorcererX]

I'm hoping they drop psionics. I've been playing since Red Box and psionics has always been a cluster. They should just shoot it and be done with it.

I want psionics to trigger people like him!

[Typhon]

I want psionics to trigger people like him!

That makes me laugh. Seriously though, I have some ideas and I am doing a full write up in my free time. I have read over both versions of the mystic, neither one really feeling very psychicy, and I dislike them both.

I, personally, dislike the whole focus mechanic and think it makes almost no sense. To me it feels like they are trying to make psionics into half monks, and always on for their power. That feels really wrong. So I chose to make a low tier of powers (talents) that give psychic flavor but leave characters as their default race when not in use. By low tier, like cantrip to 1st level spell and even then more cantrip style.

What do others want to see. If there is something you like, like focus, let me know and give me an idea of how you would like to see it implemented.

[DragonSorcererX]

That makes me laugh. Seriously though, I have some ideas and I am doing a full write up in my free time. I have read over both versions of the mystic, neither one really feeling very psychicy, and I dislike them both.

I, personally, dislike the whole focus mechanic and think it makes almost no sense. To me it feels like they are trying to make psionics into half monks, and always on for their power. That feels really wrong. So I chose to make a low tier of powers (talents) that give psychic flavor but leave characters as their default race when not in use. By low tier, like cantrip to 1st level spell and even then more cantrip style.

What do others want to see. If there is something you like, like focus, let me know and give me an idea of how you would like to see it implemented.

Well, I like the new flavor of Psionics, making it a little more monastic and spiritual, but not too much spiritual, because Psionics as most non-D&D people think already has been done in D&D with Magic, a "force user-like" character can easily be a Cleric or Paladin (especially the Paladin and his new flavor of "Force of Conviction"), a Mass Effect Biotic character is basically a Sorcerer or maybe a Warlock, and generic psionic characters are basically any 5e non-druidic full-caster.

So, as I said before, this monastic thing of elignment and stuff, makes sense for a fantasy character that draws power from his mind only.

[Typhon]

Monastic as in meditation, reflection and such is a long standing tradition for psionics. The self-searching inner reflection is one of the things that I most enjoy about psionics. But the mechanic of holding focus seems kind of off. Especially in light of casters having to hold concentration to maintain spells. This makes the Mystic feel like an odd mix of the Warlock and the Monk.

I do want psionicists to be powerful and balanced, but feel different. Having power available, but not always on. I know that you don't have to carry a psionic focus on a powerset at all times, but that is what it feels like the designers are aiming for.

At any rate, if you like focus, I will see how I can work it into my version. Maybe have it tie into the powers for differing passive (for low tier) and at-will (for mid and high tier) abilities.

Thank you for your input and I will try to have a good example out soon.

[DragonSorcererX]

Monastic as in meditation, reflection and such is a long standing tradition for psionics. The self-searching inner reflection is one of the things that I most enjoy about psionics. But the mechanic of holding focus seems kind of off. Especially in light of casters having to hold concentration to maintain spells. This makes the Mystic feel like an odd mix of the Warlock and the Monk.

I do want psionicists to be powerful and balanced, but feel different. Having power available, but not always on. I know that you don't have to carry a psionic focus on a powerset at all times, but that is what it feels like the designers are aiming for.

At any rate, if you like focus, I will see how I can work it into my version. Maybe have it tie into the powers for differing passive (for low tier) and at-will (for mid and high tier) abilities.

Thank you for your input and I will try to have a good example out soon.

I really like Psionics, so, I was thinking how I would make it on my world, because I want every race to be specialized in something for example:

Humans/Aasimar: Divine (Clerical) Magic
High Elves: Wizardly Arcane Magic
Wood Elves: Divine (Druidic) Magic
Dragonborns: Arcane Draconic Magic
Dwarves: Technomagic??? (Artificer)

Soo, I was thinking of making a Race like the Kalashtar for my world, and make them the psionic specialists, what do you think?

[Millstone85]

Well, what do you know! Psychic focus is my favourite part of the mystic. I like the idea of a character switching between several stances, each with its own features, and I think it could be justified as different harmonies of the body, mind and soul.

[Typhon]

Well, what do you know! Psychic focus is my favourite part of the mystic. I like the idea of a character switching between several stances, each with its own features, and I think it could be justified as different harmonies of the body, mind and soul.

I will concede focus. Evidently that is what people like and since all I have is 2 people answering honestly, so shall it be. Although, I will not complain because I asked for this type of information.

Not trying to derail myself or the thread, but is that something you feel might be appropriate added onto another existing class or classes as well? The way you phrased it brings the monk to mind very quickly. Which I could definitely see and understand.

[Millstone85]

I will say, however, that a psychic focus feels a bit disconnected from the psionic discipline it is supposedly a part of. You don't need to adopt the focus to use the rest of the discipline, nor the converse. That is a nerf I would welcome in the name of fluff.


Not trying to derail myself or the thread, but is that something you feel might be appropriate added onto another existing class or classes as well? The way you phrased it brings the monk to mind very quickly. Which I could definitely see and understand.The monk, yes. In fact, I think the mystic's psi points should be changed to ki points to make monk/mystic multiclassing more attractive. The way I see it, the two classes are very much related.

But stance mechanics also go well with martial and nature-themed classes. "Let me show you the dance of the broken blade", "I shall now become as swift as the viper", that kind of thing.

[Arcangel4774]

Not trying to derail myself or the thread, but is that something you feel might be appropriate added onto another existing class or classes as well? The way you phrased it brings the monk to mind very quickly. Which I could definitely see and understand.

The changeable stance is a concept a lot of people want. Right now Wizard seems to have only attempted it with the mystic, but I could just as easily see it in a martial class. Different style of martial arts or different forms in sword fighting both fit great with tbis. Putting it on the mystic seems to me like Wizard's attempt to place a mechanic they forgot to add elsewhere.

[Sredni Vashtar]

Frankly, my issue with psionics has always been that it's treated as separate from magic, which leads to a ton of issues with how it interacts with the rest of the product line and gives it a very tacked on feeling. If we were going the "innate mind magic" route for it, then it might as well be folded into the sorcerer class (which could use some new paint itself). Just my two cents, of course.

Ultimately, as a psionics non-fan, I'd probably be more likely to use it if it was presented as a part of the core game. (And I understand that the ship has sailed on either of my preferred options.)

[DragonSorcererX]

Ultimately, as a psionics non-fan, I'd probably be more likely to use it if it was presented as a part of the core game. (And I understand that the ship has sailed on either of my preferred options.)

HA! Now this is what I would like to see! It would be the ultimate TRIGGERER!

[Matticusrex]

I hope they keep some of the complexities of it, 5e could use some more advanced and customizable classes. I also enjoy how it triggers people. Maybe too many mind blasts from flayers?

[SharkForce]

Frankly, my issue with psionics has always been that it's treated as separate from magic, which leads to a ton of issues with how it interacts with the rest of the product line and gives it a very tacked on feeling. If we were going the "innate mind magic" route for it, then it might as well be folded into the sorcerer class (which could use some new paint itself). Just my two cents, of course.

Ultimately, as a psionics non-fan, I'd probably be more likely to use it if it was presented as a part of the core game. (And I understand that the ship has sailed on either of my preferred options.)

ummm... what?

so far as i can tell, 4e basically didn't really have any mechanics on how power sources interacted anyways (or if it did, it was super rare), and 3.5 had psionic/magic transparency as the default.

so it hasn't been treated meaningfully differently from magic for one and a half editions (plus whatever fraction of 5e we're at so far)... or, to put it another way, about 13 years.

anyways, personally, i would like psionics to be written for people who actually like psionics, and the people who have hated psionics with a burning passion ever since it was originally released as an apparently horribly broken pile of crap (i have only other people's opinions to work with here, i never played anything before 2nd AD&D) be ignored (because seriously, why would you design for people who are explicitly not interested in buying the product, and have been vehemently opposed to the mere concept for decades, anyways? if you're gonna make it at all, make it for the people who like it, not for the people who hate every version of psionics on the basis of rules that haven't existed for several decades)

i would like it to feel like the flavour of 2nd AD&D, but without the loopholes and ambiguous wording that could be interpreted in broken ways. using the same names and having similar effects to the old powers would certainly help here. i'm not opposed to borrowing any cool stuff from earlier or later, but of all the versions of psionics i've played with, 2nd AD&D (BEFORE skills and powers, which kneecapped the entire system to nerf a few powers) felt the most right to me.

i don't really want any far realms required fluff, or fluff about how it's caused by the world breaking, though as long as it has no mechanical impact such that i can ignore any fluff that is written, i'm not super picky on this one.

i'm not completely convinced that the mystic they've previewed is quite there yet, but i think it could be what i'm looking for, or at least, close enough to be usable.

i would like to see "wild talent" subclasses for a variety of other classes as well.

i would actually like to see it more focused in effects than magic; a psionicist specialising in psychokinesis should be able to do many things that a clairvoyant never will, and vice versa. i'd like to see clairvoyance and psychoportation made just as much of a compelling choice as any other discipline, and not just in a "they have cool archetype abilities but virtually no interesting psionic powers to choose from in their discipline" way, like divination wizards got (it's great that divination wizards have cool archetype abilities... but how many divination spells are you going to find on the typical "diviner" spell list? is it even going to come close to the number they have from any other school?).

[Malaketh]

What about approaching it the way "they" did it?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/psychic-magic/

[Millstone85]

Frankly, my issue with psionics has always been that it's treated as separate from magic, which leads to a ton of issues with how it interacts with the rest of the product line and gives it a very tacked on feeling.
so far as i can tell, 4e basically didn't really have any mechanics on how power sources interacted anyways (or if it did, it was super rare), and 3.5 had psionic/magic transparency as the default.Going by the MM and the UA, 5e has this concept that psionics can be mind over matter, mind over mind, or mind over magic. In the last case, the end result of a psionic discipline is in fact a magic spell, which can be dispelled, antimagicked and everything. And I think that's an interesting way to balance and connect the two systems.

Fluff-wise, I like to imagine an alternate reality where D&D went with "power of the body, mind and soul" as the default explanation for magic, and later introduced this secret power called the Psionic Weave. Yes, Luke, the Weave is what gives a mystic his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the planes together. And players would all the same be complaining about that science-fiction crap that doesn't fit in D&D.


If we were going the "innate mind magic" route for it, then it might as well be folded into the sorcerer class (which could use some new paint itself).While I am sure there has been classes with an intuitive or spontaneous manifestation of psionic abilities, I am glad to see 5e start with a class for which psionics are a studied art.

And if we have bards, sorcerers and warlocks, we can have artificers, mystics and wizards.

[Sredni Vashtar]

ummm... what?

so far as i can tell, 4e basically didn't really have any mechanics on how power sources interacted anyways (or if it did, it was super rare), and 3.5 had psionic/magic transparency as the default.

so it hasn't been treated meaningfully differently from magic for one and a half editions (plus whatever fraction of 5e we're at so far)... or, to put it another way, about 13 years.

I took one look at 4e and ran to Pathfinder, and I know that 3.5 had the transparency between the two, which was something I greatly appreciated coming from 2nd edition. My point was more about how there seems to be a divide in how people react to psionics vs magic, where one is more "sci fi" than the other and so forth.

(Also, 13 years? Damn, I'm old.)


i would like to see "wild talent" subclasses for a variety of other classes as well.

A Psychic Warrior archetype for Fighters could remove the need for a standalone class, which would encourage streamlining.


Going by the MM and the UA, 5e has this concept that psionics can be mind over matter, mind over mind, or mind over magic. In the last case, the end result of a psionic discipline is in fact a magic spell, which can be dispelled, antimagicked and everything. And I think that's an interesting way to balance and connect the two systems.

And I like that. In AD&D and 3.5 (again, I know nothing about 4e), psions got powers that were separate from spells, which made them only sporadically expanded upon. If there's no difference between spells and powers, and new spells in future expansions are added to psionic classes' "spell" lists, that would go a long way.


While I am sure there has been classes with an intuitive or spontaneous manifestation of psionic abilities, I am glad to see 5e start with a class for which psionics are a studied art.

And if we have bards, sorcerers and warlocks, we can have artificers, mystics and wizards.

Which would give more reason for characters to invest in Intelligence. I agree. It's just that my gut impression of psions defaults to the X-Men type more than the Mystic type that the game seems to be going for out of the gate.

[Deleted]

Ok, I know that there is a forum specifically for homebrewing. I do currently have a thread there to help as well.

I am just curious what people who are waiting for WotC to drop their psionics are wanting to see. What are you hoping that it will look or play like?

If it breaks out into a full discussion even better. I know what I would like to see, but I just want to know what others are thinking.

I just played Numenera for the first time, I want to see D&D give psionics the love that Numenera has given Nanos.

I know they won't, but I can hope.

But in context of D&D, give me mechanics and abilities that show they deserve to be their own class(es)/subclasses.

Right now we have the spell point variant and battle master that can be considered "psionic" rules for 5e (no matter what, the BM is very much a psychic warrior). Give me Psionics that stand apart and isn't just another class refluffed or something I could have gotten from another class.

If you are essentially making a sorcerer with spell points as the base rules... Don't bother.

[Typhon]

For those who have given me feed back, this is not me rehashing a class for fluff I like. This is meant to be and feel like it's own class. I am looking at certain classes to ensure a proper balance is readily in place. Namely because certain class benefits exist in certain classes. So cleric, warlock, and wizard are being looked at as well as monk and paladin to an extent.

I am not creating a one class one shot, it is a full system. There will be archetypes for the other classes, even the casting classes. MC will not be giving a synergy boost to monk ki, psychic phenomena are not strictly an Eastern concept. However, an archetype form is being worked on and would function similar to what WotC has for the mystic as that feels fitting and more cohesive.

This version will be more akin to 2nd edition, pre-player option, as that version felt the most like what I see being psionics. I am sorting out bits from later as I feel they cleaned some items up, but it will not be slotted like a wizards. Some items are being dropped completely as they don't fit a more generalized type of psionics.

Magic transparency and interaction are fully being a core concept, as it was intended to be and was implemented in 2nd edition. If two people use similar powers, ala mage hand/telekinesis, then a contest will determine who takes control. More will be done up for different levels of magic. High magic settings will more easily affect psionics and low magic settings may not have as much influence. It will be set as examples but always left to the DM and the table.

As for the sentiment that it would be nice to have more complexity. Yes, I agree. I have been pondering a few alterations for my home setting to introduce some limitations and consequences.

I didn't forget this thread, I just have a lot going on besides watching this board. To those who have shared, thank you for your Input. Even hearing what you dislike and don't want helps me reach the right audience.

[clash]

The problem with psionics, is creating a new spell system to make it work. Want to create a new caster class with psionic theme and abiltiies, sure go right ahead. But all psionics really need to work is more spells related to it. Sure we have a few but they are few and far between. So instead of having 75% of psionics just spells that are refluffed, just add a new class and add the 25% of psionics that is actually unique as new spells.

[BladeWing81]

Looking at the spell class and what's been in place in UA I would like to see more than anything a complete construction of the mystic class since I think it only goes up to lvl 10 in the last review unless I missed something. Also I would love to see all of the Martial classes (or meele clases for the Monk since some don't consider it a martial class) to get their own psionic subclass. Subclasses to me are the best part of this edition since they add a huge amount of flavor and options to the players in general.