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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next [Class] The Feral! (PEACH)



RabanoDOOM
2017-03-04, 03:05 PM
Hey there! :smallbiggrin: So, I'm fairly certain this homebrew class is terribly broken in at least 1 or 2 ways, probably more. This is The Feral, a class that focuses on being very agile, wielding multiple light weapons, and make a WHOLE BUNCH of small attacks. The archetypes focus on improving aspects of the Feral's 2 unique class features, those being the Low Stance and the Hyena's Bite. Please evaluate my class and tell me what you think needs improving, what you'd add, and what you'd remove to make it better. Thanks!
The Feral


Level
Proficiency Bonus
Features


1st
+2
Hyena's Bite, Low Stance


2nd
+2
Pounce, Agility


3rd
+2
Feral Archetype


4th
+2
Ability Score Improvement


5th
+3
Extra Attack


6th
+3
Agile Warrior, Fearless


7th
+3
Feral Feature


8th
+3
Ability Score Improvement


9th
+4
Aggro, Passing Glance


10th
+4
Extra Attack (2)


11th
+4
Feral Feature


12th
+4
Ability Score Improvement


13th
+5
Evasion


14th
+5
Ability Score Improvement


15th
+5
Feral Feature


16th
+5
Ability Score Improvement


17th
+6
Gale Warrior, Ravager


18th
+6
Feral Feature


19th
+6
Ability Score Improvement


20th
+6
Hellrazor



CLASS FEATURES
As a Feral, you gain the following class features.

HIT POINTS
Hit Dice: d8
Hit Points at 1st Level: 8 + constitution modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d8 (or 5) + constitution modifier

PROFICIENCIES
Armor: Light
Weapons: Simple, Martial
Tools: None

Saving Throws: Strength, Dexterity
Skills: Select 2 from Animal Handling, Athletics, Intimidation, Perception, Sleight of Hand & Stealth

EQUIPMENT
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:


(a) two scimitars (b) two shortswords, or (c) any two martial weapons
(a) a dungeoneer's pack or (b) an explorer's pack.
Leather armor and two daggers

Hyena's Bite
You can hold a light weapon in your mouth, and make a single attack with it as a bonus action. Additionally, if you are dual wielding, you may make two attacks as a bonus action instead of 1, one offhand attack and one Hyena's Bite attack. You may not apply your stat modifier to any damage dealt through Hyena's Bite, except through Hellrazor.

Low Stance
While wearing light armor and not using a shield, you may enter or exit a Low Stance as a standard or bonus action. While in a low stance, attacks made more than 5 feet away from you have disadvantage, attacks made within 5 feet have advantage, and you may cross through the spaces of enemies the same size as you or larger. Exiting a low stance provokes an opportunity attack with advantage from any enemy within 5 feet.

Pounce
While in a low stance, you gain an extra 10 feet of movement speed, difficult terrain doesn't cost you extra movement, and creatures cannot make opportunity attacks against you.

Agility
You gain proficiency in Acrobatics, if you hadn't already. Additionally, if you had proficiency in Acrobatics prior to acquiring this feature, you gain Expertise in Acrobatics.

Feral Archetype
At level 3, you choose an archetype to emulate your feral fighting style through. You may choose between the Razor feral archetype and the Dust Devil feral archetype. These archetypes provide you features at level 3, 7, 11, 15, and 18.

Agile Warrior
You can move up to your movement speed as a reaction after being hit by an attack or spell, and can Dash as a bonus action.

Fearless
You are immune to the Frightened condition and any fear-based effects. Additionally, creatures who attempt to make Intimidate checks against you automatically fail.

Aggro
At the start of an encounter, before anyone has rolled initiative, you may move up to your movement speed.

Passing Glance
While in a low stance, when you cross through the space of an enemy, you may make a single Hyena's Bite attack against that enemy. This attack has disadvantage. You may only hit the same creature once using this feature.

Evasion
When you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail.

Gale Warrior
You are always treated as being under the effects of a Jump spell.

Ravager
When you take the attack action and succeed on any attack you make, you may make a single Hyena's Bite attack immediately after that attack. This attack has disadvantage.

Hellrazor
You may add either your Dexterity or Strength modifier to any and all melee attack damage you deal. This does not apply to attacks that already have a stat modifier added to their damage.




Razor Fang
At Level 3, you may wield a fourth light weapon, held by another part of your body aside from your hands or mouth. (In your elbow, under your arm, under your knee, etc.) After making a Hyena's Bite attack, you may immediately make an Acrobatics check, with the check's DC equal to the enemy's Armor class. If this Acrobatics check is successful, you may make an attack against that enemy using your extra weapon. If this Acrobatics check is a failure, you provoke an opportunity attack from any enemy within 5 feet, and you immediately fall prone. This feature does not apply to Ravager, and you may not apply your stat modifier to any damage dealt by Razor Fang, except through Hellrazor.

Slicing Whirlwind
At Level 7, you can use your action to make a melee attack against any number of creatures within 5 feet of you, with a separate attack roll for each target.

Bladewheel
At Level 11, you may wield a fifth light weapon using Razor Fang, making attacks with both weapons when Razor Fang is used

Iron Curtain
At Level 15, when you're hit by an attack, you may use your reaction to make a single attack contested by the enemy's attack roll. If this attack is successful, the damage their attack deals is reduced by half the damage of your attack. (Rounded down) You always take a minimum of 1 damage.

Walking Armory
At Level 18, you may wield a sixth light weapon using Razor Fang, making attacks with all three weapons when Razor Fang is used.
Desert Wind
At Level 3, you may enter a low stance without expending a standard or bonus action. Getting out of a Low Stance still requires a standard or bonus action, however, and still provokes an opportunity attack.

Black Iguana's Blessing
At Level 7, while in a low stance, you gain a climb speed equal to your movement speed.

Dancing Sands
At Level 11, while in a low stance, you have advantage on all dexterity based skill checks and saves.

Untouchable
At Level 15, while in a low stance, you may ignore the movement-inhibiting effects of any movement-inhibiting spells, and you cannot be grappled or restrained.

Zephyr
At Level 18, you may exit a low stance without expending an action. Additionally, while in a low stance, you are always treated as being under the effect of the Longstrider and Water Walk spells.

JNAProductions
2017-03-04, 03:33 PM
Three attacks, for free, at level one? No. Especially since you get to add your stat mod to them all.

Low Stance seems too much. It's too good for getting past archers.

Agility is bad because it encourages you to not take Acrobatics at level one, since it's useless if you already have it.

Gale Warrior should not grant immunity to fall damage. Monks don't even get that. Jump is fine, though.

Ravager is basically a free extra attack, since you have three attacks to hit with. This brings you up to six attacks.

Hellrazor is pointless-you're already doing that.

Overall, this class is way too damn powerful. You're looking at around 19.5 DPR (assuming all hits) at level 1, compared to a TWF Fighter's 13, and it only gets worse.

Razor Fang is ANOTHER extra attack-admittedly, this has risk, but if you do it before moving, you can stand up at no penalty to yourself.

Slicing Whirlwind should be worded better.

Just... STOP WITH THE EXTRA ATTACKS! You add your stat mod to all of them, and it's TOO MUCH!

Desert Wind means you have permanent Low Stance. Much too powerful.

Free Spider Climb? That's probably too much.

Dancing Sands is also too much.

Zephyr is okay, for its level.

If you want a better example of making a class that outdamages the Fighter, look at the Powerhouse (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?514814-The-Powerhouse&p=21692988#post21692988). It was specifically designed to outdamage the Fighter, but is so much more fragile that it's (hopefully) balanced.

This class? Barely any less survivable. It's got one less HP per level, and less AC by 1... Only when compared to a Heavy Armored fighter. (By 3, if the Fighter uses a shield and heavy armor, but then they lose damage.)

GalacticAxekick
2017-03-04, 04:17 PM
To expand on JNA's comments


Three attacks, for free, at level one? No. Especially since you get to add your stat mod to them all.I understand you want your class to be aggressive, but that doesn't mean outclassing martial classes. Those are aggressive classes that you should seek to match. Things like martial weapon proficiency and Fighting Style are enough. The only classes that get more are classes that lack one of these (the Barbarian's Rage in lieu of Fighting Style, or the Rogue's Sneak Attack).


Low Stance seems too much. It's too good for getting past archers. Instead of replacing the standing position, Low Stance should make prone position viable. "You do not attack at Disadvantage when you are prone, and you may crawl through occupied spaces at no penalty: even those of hostile creature." This way, being prone helps you move through melee and evade ranged foes, but it's making you an easy target in melee and preventing you from closing in on those ranged foes. Pros and cons.


Agility is bad because it encourages you to not take Acrobatics at level one, since it's useless if you already have it. Agreed. I'd remove it and rephrase Pounce so that your crawl speed equals your standing speed (instead of +15 feet) and you can Disengage as a bonus action (instead of constant immunity to opportunity attacks). That's enough for 2nd level.


Gale Warrior should not grant immunity to fall damage. Monks don't even get that. Jump is fine, though. Agreed.


Ravager is basically a free extra attack, since you have three attacks to hit with. This brings you up to six attacks. Agreed. Try to give your classes options instead of buffs.


Hellrazor is pointless-you're already doing that. Agreed. Replace.




Razor Fang is ANOTHER extra attack-admittedly, this has risk, but if you do it before moving, you can stand up at no penalty to yourself. Instead of granting mechanically unnecessary and thematically dubious extra attacks, why not a utility? Play with the imagery of an agile, fragile, animalistic front liner.


Slicing Whirlwind should be worded better. Just make this Whirlwind Attack.


Just... STOP WITH THE EXTRA ATTACKS! You add your stat mod to all of them, and it's TOO MUCH!See: Razor Fang.




Desert Wind means you have permanent Low Stance. Much too powerful. Write options, not buffs


Free Spider Climb? That's probably too much.A climbing speed alone would be fine.


Dancing Sands is also too much.Rather than a numerical bonus to things the class can already do, why not give a new power altogether?

RabanoDOOM
2017-03-04, 10:25 PM
Three attacks, for free, at level one? No. Especially since you get to add your stat mod to them all.

You don't add your stat mod to Hyena's Bite, actually I probably should've clarified that. :smalleek: That's part of why I had some class abilities be extra Hyena's Bite attacks, so the damage being added is a 1d6 at max, and requiring an attack roll. I should probably remove Two-Weapon Fighting as a class feature to help with that.


Low Stance seems too much. It's too good for getting past archers

Maybe getting out of Low Stance can provoke an attack of opportunity with advantage. I do like GalacticAxeKick's idea for viable prone, though, my intent with Low Stance was basically just a mobile, somewhat improved equivalent to prone.


Agility is bad because it encourages you to not take Acrobatics at level one, since it's useless if you already have it.

The way I originally wrote Agility, instead of just giving you Acrobatics proficiency, it let you have the benefit of adding both your strength and your dexterity modifier to Acrobatics and Athletics rolls, basically combining the two into a single, highly-powerful stat. This seemed too powerful, especially if used in combination with a potential multiclass Expertise, (might end up with like a +22 on all athletics and acrobatics rolls by level 20 :smalleek: ) so this was my quick fix.

I may just grant expertise to Acrobatics if you already have proficiency in it. You do need Acrobatics given one or two of the later abilities.


Gale Warrior should not grant immunity to fall damage. Monks don't even get that. Jump is fine, though.

Gotcha, I'll change it to being under the effect of Jump permanently


Ravager is basically a free extra attack, since you have three attacks to hit with. This brings you up to six attacks.

Ravager doesn't apply to the bonus attack. I could make it at disadvantage. Though, again, Hyena's Bite doesn't get stat mod damage until the capstone, so DPR wouldn't be that heavily affected


Hellrazor is pointless-you're already doing that.

Need to reword stat mods out of Hyena's Bite.


Overall, this class is way too damn powerful. You're looking at around 19.5 DPR (assuming all hits) at level 1, compared to a TWF Fighter's 13, and it only gets worse.

Well, with Hyena's bite, that's theoretically just adding an extra 1d6 max on top of a fighter's potential DPR. That should actually balance out if I remove the TWF fighting style, since you'd then need to multiclass, missing out on the Hyena's Bite buffing Hellrazor. With that, your DPR should be 13.5, if we use 3.5 as the average number of a 1d6 die.

Now, multiclassing for TWF style will give you a major buff to DPR, at 16.5, but it'll be mostly short-lived, and wouldn't be that out of line with what other fighting style multiclasses can give you.


Razor Fang is ANOTHER extra attack-admittedly, this has risk, but if you do it before moving, you can stand up at no penalty to yourself.

That is a good point, I should maybe add an opportunity attack to failure too, kinda like passing glance. Though, it should be noted, as a Feral, especially a Razor feral, it's probably in your best interest not to lose your movement, since your Low Stance grants advantage to melee enemies.


Slicing Whirlwind should be worded better.

Agreed


Just... STOP WITH THE EXTRA ATTACKS! You add your stat mod to all of them, and it's TOO MUCH!

Fixing that so the extra attacks don't have a stat mod without the epic level capstone.


Desert Wind means you have permanent Low Stance. Much too powerful.

Agreed. I may make desert wind instead say entering the stance doesn't expend an action or bonus action, though leaving the stance does. That way the stance still has risks, with the advantage and the opportunity attack for leaving it, but you can still use it as a tool for closing in on or moving through enemies.


Free Spider Climb? That's probably too much.

Agreed, a climb speed would probably be fine.


Dancing Sands is also too much.

I wouldn't really say so, except for maybe the ability checks. The best part of the ability is advantage on dex saves, which couples well with evasion, that is a powerful aspect. Aside from that, it's Acrobatics advantage on the archetype with no acrobatics based ability, you'll just have very very good acrobatics, Sleight of Hand advantage, which isn't big, and Stealth advantage, which...yeah, that's pretty good, actually. More of a utility stealth, though, rather than an ambushing stealth, since with all your attacks, having advantage on just one isn't that big without some rogue multiclassing. I'll remove ability checks, and maybe saves, but the skill advantage doesn't really seem that big.


If you want a better example of making a class that outdamages the Fighter, look at the Powerhouse (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?514814-The-Powerhouse&p=21692988#post21692988). It was specifically designed to outdamage the Fighter, but is so much more fragile that it's (hopefully) balanced.

This class? Barely any less survivable. It's got one less HP per level, and less AC by 1... Only when compared to a Heavy Armored fighter. (By 3, if the Fighter uses a shield and heavy armor, but then they lose damage.)

Fighters have second wind, action surge, potentially defensive or ranged fighting styles, and access to either potential health regeneration, potentially good strategically defensive maneuvers, or potentially defensive spells. Paladins have healing, among other defensive spells, as well as some notable defensive abilities in both the base class and the archetypes. Rangers, a class that is often considered fairly squishy despite its d10 hit die, has a lot of ranged options, a potential second target for enemies to attack, more stealth capability, and some healing.

The Feral has very little in the way of these survivability options. Aside from the ranged attack disadvantage, the best survivability options lie in either Iron Curtain, which I may make only usable a certain number of times, or the Dancing Sands/Evasion combo, which are GOOD, but they grant nowhere near the same survivability that the other martial classes do. It also lacks the skill utility or spellcasting a lot of non-survivable classes have, swapping that out for a lot of extra attacks and a ton of mobility. All on a d8 hit die. Saying it's barely less survivable than a fighter is like saying a rogue is barely less survivable than a fighter, the AC and hit die may be only a little different, but the rogue lacks the same survivability-based abilities as a fighter. Nobody would argue too heavily against the claim that rogues are fairly squishy.

I may make the hit die for the feral a d6, though that would be an unprecedented die for a non-spellcasting fighting character to have. I'm on the fence about it though.


Thanks for all your critiques by the way, yall! :smallbiggrin: JNAProductions, GalacticAxeKick, I've taken all of your critiques into consideration, and I'll make the following changes:

Fall damage immunity will be removed from Gale Warrior
Agility will be changed to grant Expertise on Acrobatics if you already have it
Hyena's Bite will be reworded so stat modifiers aren't applied to its damage
Black Iguana's Blessing will only grant you climb speed equal to your movement speed
Dancing Sands will have the advantage on Dexterity Ability Checks removed
Fighting Style will be removed
Pounce will be changed to only have an extra 10 feet of movement.
Exiting Low Stance will require a standard or bonus action, and provoke an attack of opportunity with advantage.
Desert Wind's effect will be changed to granting you the ability to enter Low Stance without expending an action. Leaving it still requires a standard or bonus action, and still provokes an opportunity attack
Failing Razor Fang's acrobatics check provokes an opportunity attack.
Iron Curtain reduction will be reduced to 1/2 the damage of your attack, rounded down, and you will always take a minimum of 1 damage.

Aside from this, I'll be making an effort to come up with archetypal abilities that do things besides buff up Low Stance or Hyena's Fang, and I'll make an update post once I've done that.

Please keep PEACHing the Feral, everybody, your criticisms have been super useful so far! :smallbiggrin:

JNAProductions
2017-03-04, 10:32 PM
Three attacks was just your action attacks-you have Extra Attack (2) on the class.