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Mars Ultor
2017-03-04, 03:30 PM
I'm writing a mystery adventure for D&D 3.5 (the rules won't matter that much), and I want to make sure that it can be solved. I've tried to give several ways for the players to figure things out, but I'm concerned that since I know the story it's clear to me but won't be clear to others. I'd appreciate if you would "play along" and try to solve the mystery. Please ask questions or offer suggestions.

I'm going to post things in segments instead of all at once. If you think that another way would be beneficial, please recommend it.

The party is 3rd level and has six characters; a human fighter, a dwarf cleric, a human paladin, a halfling rogue, a halfling druid (female), and a elf druid/ranger (female). Two of the players are a little inexperienced, but this adventure doesn't depend on the rules, it's mostly some skill checks and thinking. It's a low arcane magic world in general, but none of the players has any access to arcane magic, anyway.

The setting is basically British post-Roman/early medieval, there are numerous city-states, small kingdoms, petty warlords, and vast areas of wilderness.

The Setup

The party has been traveling with an earl. They know him somewhat but they have a friend NPC (not appearing in the adventure) in common who trusts both the group and the earl and has recommended them to each other.

As they are nearing Hendford Manor, the earl's estate, the weather turns bad; heavy rains, high winds, thunder and lightning. The roads become muddy and difficult to travel. The earl invites them to stay in his manor for the length of the storm.

Upon arriving at Hendford, the horses are stabled by inconsequential NPCs and the party and earl enter the house. The entry hall is filled with mud, and there are puddles and wet spots from the water running off the travelers. They are brought upstairs to clean up and change into dry clothing.

The house has a main section and two wings, the general shape is _\.__./ This is not to scale, but it's the basic layout. The two small dots at the bottom of the diagonal lines are towers. They are incorporated into the building, they aren't a separate area inside, but each tower holds one additional bedroom, and the roof is accessible through a door in the ceiling. A ladder, stored along a wall, is available in both of the tower bedrooms. There is also a small projection off the back of one side which is for the servants and storage.

The inside layout of the house is not completely necessary, but there are some ways the house is involved in solving the mystery. The wing on the left contains a sitting area, like a second living room, which is open to the hall. The rest of the wing is the earl's office and study. This room is filled with hunting trophies, unusual weapons, and inserting tapestries. There is a large desk and two smaller desks in the room, a table, a liquor cabinet. Some shelves with various objects, and a fireplace with sufficient wood. There are windows on the outside walls and at the end of the wing, and a terrace on the side of the wing, facing the central courtyard.

The other wing has a closed sitting area and closet where it attaches to the main house, and the end of the wing contains the earl and lady's bedroom. They also have a balcony, opposite the other one, which faces the inside of the courtyard.

The party is co-ed and the four males members are given one tower bedroom, the two females are given the other. After changing the party comes down for dinner and meets:


Earl Oswin, bearded, slightly overweight, jolly, an advisor to the king Lady Godelina, the earl's wife, younger than the earl, pretty, severe Osgood, the earl's son, he appears fat, drunk, and stupid Oslina, the earl's daughter, pretty, doe-eyed, the model of a medieval lady Aunt Evelyn, an elderly relative, over-styled, appears vain Miles, the steward, late thirties, stern looking, looks at everyone with suspicion Leon, the jester, thin, pale, very nervous, seems a little off Doris, the maid, any Monty Python while playing woman Winston, the butler, older than dirt, talks in a whisper and trails off, moves at a glacial pace


Everyone except the servants, Doris and Winston, are sitting at the table in an large dining hall. Fires burn in multiple fireplaces. Some obvious things you notice are that the earl is happy to be home and is drinking freely. His wife, Lady Godelina, does not look happy. Osgood, his late-teen-aged overweight son, is drinking heavily. The earl is talking about his trip and describing how he met you, and your recent heroics.

You may make Spot checks or the equivalent, ask questions, or talk to any of the listed NPCs.

JNAProductions
2017-03-04, 03:42 PM
I stab the butler! He did it! :P

I'm not seeing any mystery. It seems like the Earl might not be the best father/husband, or maybe the wife ain't the best, or maybe the son has issues, but I see no mystery here.

jayem
2017-03-04, 04:02 PM
I presume the challenge is to be revealed in act 1 (it might be worth making sure they know that something will happen?).

With that in mind, (with no clear focus, and with minimal metagaming)

I'm going to look round my (male) room briefly before lunch (particularly for obvious entry points, and anything unusual, perhaps scoping out a semi-clear route to the other tower in case of emergencies) and then at dinner ask the Earl about the history of the house:
who built it?
which are the oldest parts?

(OOC I'd be thinking about other 'stereotype' chat conversations. Perhaps one of the characters could flirt with the daughter, or try and deal with the Butler, basically they all do something natural with their time)

Mars Ultor
2017-03-04, 05:56 PM
Nothing unusual about the house, except that it was built years ago by the Aventinians. The earl has lived here for years and had it renovated several years ago, he says it's very ordinary. It does have the balconies, which is a nice feature, and lot's of fireplaces. There's a wine celler/root cellar downstairs but it's actually pretty small.

The son seems like kind of a dunce, not particularly interesting or interested in anything. He smells from wine.

The daughter makes a big deal about how accomplished the adventurers are, but she's just being polite. She's supposed to be charming and a good host and that's what she does. Nothing malevolent, but after a while you realize she's a good hostess, but there's no actual interest in you.

The wife seems unhappy, she explains that it disturbs her when her husband is away. She's also polite, but it's obvious that it's forced. She seems a little angry at the earl, but you don't see them interact much and he appears oblivious. Eventually someone will notice that she wears long gloves; before dinner, during dinner, and in a family portrait; she's got on different pairs of long gloves. She also doesn't show much skin at all; she's got a high collar, and no cleavage. The daughter and aunt are a little more fashionable; the daughter shows off a little skin, the aunt is older and more demure.

The butler, Winston, has been there forever. He's ancient and it seems almost too much effort for him to speak. He seems like he's about to keel over and shuffles along from place to place.

The aunt, Evelyn, is ditzy and talks too loudly and laughs too much. You get the sense no one is a particular fan of hers. After a while she become tiresome and you wish you could escape the conversation.

The jester, Leon, is a nervous guy. He's tells you some dumb jokes, but seems as if he's trying to hide that he's upset about something. "Why do dragons sleep during the day? Because they fight knights." He seems simple and maybe a little emotionally disturbed.


Miles, the steward is a serious guy. He's very interested in all of you and asks a lot of questions of you. He wants to know about your families and where you're from. Once he determines that no one in the party is related to anyone in the nobility or knows that much about politics, he loses interest.

Doris, the maid, is a big gossip and will talk about anything you want to talk about. She seems willing to thing the worst of anyone at a moment's notice. She has a little bit of a strange smell, the druids thinks it's plants or herbs, but can't quite place it.

The earl, whom you've met before, is a jolly guy. He's a little more clever than he appears, and always tries to find the bright side of a situation. He appears a little disappointed in his son, is affectionate toward his wife and daughter, either doesn't realize or doesn't care that the wife is unhappy with him.

Mars Ultor
2017-03-04, 06:04 PM
After Dinner

Dinner is mostly uneventful. Aunt Evelyn makes a big deal about how she's only going to have a little bit to eat, "a lady must watch her figure." It's apparent that she doesn't actually keep that much of an eye on her figure.

The earl shows you his library, (it's on the main floor) it's an enormous room filled with comfortable couches and chairs, several tables and scribe desks and a few bookcases filled with books, scrolls, and sheafs of loose paper. He says his grandfather was very much into books, he spent a fortune finding books and making copies. His father was very big on genealogy and his life's work was trying to put together a family tree of all the nobles. He believed if people could see they had common ancestors and living relatives there would be more of an effort to find peace and unite the smaller fiefdoms.

His father died recently and Godelina, the earl's wife, was kind enough to gather all his book and papers. They're somewhat organized, and available in two large, thick books, a few scrolls, and several bundles of paper. The earl is particularly proud of one set of scrolls, which is nothing but family trees all drawn out on large sheets of vellum. He notes his wife did a good job putting everything together. His father just had piles of papers everywhere. The lady carefully read everything over and grouped it together. He intends to have a sage come and see what can be done with everything.

Miles, the steward stays with you all for a while and then excuses himself, he says he has work managing the house and its affairs. The son goes off shortly afterward. The Lady Godelina comes in and insists that the earl must go to bed, she's concerned about his health. He often comes home sick after being on the road and he must get his rest. She says the maid, Doris, will show you to your rooms. You are left alone in the library for about twenty minutes, and then Doris comes to take you upstairs.

Doris' peculiar odor is very noticeable as she leads you upstairs to the second floor. Upon reaching the upstairs, Doris points out her room, indicating a door down the hall, just where the servants' extension juts off the main house. She says to feel free to knock if you need anything during the night.

As you pass the doors to the earl's room you can hear him snoring loudly. When you pass another door, Doris explains that Winston was the butler for the earl's father and was given his own room in the main part of the house. One of the party hears a "clunk" from inside the butler's room as you pass.

If you knock, or open the door, you see Winston has knocked over a small step stool in front of an armoire. He says that he was reaching for a book on the top shelf and he lost his balance.

Mars Ultor
2017-03-04, 06:23 PM
The Murder


The storm continues to rage outside as you go to your rooms. When morning comes everyone hears a loud scream. The party rushes down the stairways into the main corridor, and others open their doors and step out into the hall. Everyone seems to be around except for Miles, the steward.

Doris says that Miles is dead, he's been stabbed. She went to his room and found it empty, his bed hadn't been slept in. She knew he sometimes fell asleep in the earl's study, working on paperwork. When she went to find him, she entered the study only to discover him slumped over the desk, dead.
Everyone, except Doris, is in their bedclothes, and they all start heading toward the study. I'll assume the party grabbed weapons and maybe shields as they left their rooms.

Arriving in the study, the party can see that furniture has been knocked over, the pitcher and bowl from the washstand are on the floor, and papers are scattered around. Miles, still in his clothes from last night, is sitting in his chair, slumped over the desk, with a stab wound in his back. An investigation of the body reveals that although there is a knife wound in his back, he has also been poisoned. There is some dried ink on his fingers and the heel of his hand. A quill with some ink in on the desk in front of him. Several large sheets of paper are on the desk, as well as a penknife and other quills, a bottle of ink, a blotter, a burned out candle, and the earl's seal. There is a small journal on the desk, it looks as if several pages--in different places--have been carefully torn out.

A search of the room reveals that there is ample wood stocked near the fireplaces, but the fires have burned out. A wine goblet in on the floor; the goblet and the rug where the goblet fell have residue of red wine and something else, perhaps poison. There are several weapons and trophies on the wall, but a single-edged dagger is missing.

After finding the body, a more thorough search of the room reveals that the shades have been pushed back, and a window is partially open. The window sill is somewhat wet and a grappling hook and rope can be seen dangling outside.

The balcony drapes are drawn, and the door is closed, but unlocked. The floor and carpet near the balcony are wet. Under the desk is an unsealed scroll tube. Inside is a letter addressed to a noble named Burton, finalizing the marriage arrangements between the earl's daughter, Oslina, and Burton's son, Linton. The letter suggests that Burton is a noble whose holdings are about four or five days travel away in another kingdom.

A Knowledge: Local, Nobility & Royalty, and/or Knowledge: History check will inform that Lord Burton is known as a particularly brutal leader, and that he and his father and grandfather conquered the lands they rule from the previous noble family, which they then executed. Although nominally under the authority of a nearby king, Burton does what he wants and keeps pushing his boundaries.
A Knowledge: Nobility & Royalty check will inform that although this marriage would be an advantageous move for the earl and his daughter, it's not at once clear where the advantage lies for Burton and his son, Linton. But Earl Oswin does have a good reputation, no particular enemies, and is known for his advice and good humor. Having met the daughter, she's pretty enough and knows how to play the part of a noble wife.

If the letter is examined closely, it is apparent that is has not yet been signed or stamped by the earl, but the text of the letter itself mentions the earl and their prior negotiations. There are also a little bit of a design around the edges of the parchment although there are some erroneous marks--just little lines and marking which look like they could mean something.

Is there anything anyone would want to do now or perhaps the previous night? Is everyone coming in to the murder room? Are you posting guards at outside doors? Any other questions? Is there anything in particular you'd like to investigate?

jayem
2017-03-05, 03:38 AM
Well after getting permission, it seems to make sense to keep people in/out, and investigate.
(quite what we do if told to leave, I'm not sure)
We also need to check our own alibis, we have just arrived, after all and should be under suspicion.

I think we need to be aware of the possibility of at least 2 murderers (poison and stabbing), but not commit.

With that in mind we need to find dagger and poison.

Some pair needs to look at the journal, find what's missing.
Ask the butler about the wine. Get him to help search outside (beneath the window?) or somewhere.
Get someone else to help search inside for intruders, somehow subtly check top of Butlers armoire.
Congratulate daughter Oslina about marriage, find anything from reaction.
Look at window, does it open from outside, if not why was it opened... (especially if there was a door)

Current suspicion, murder to prevent marriage or to prevent obstacle to marriage. Rope suggests someone healthy and athletic (us!, Leon, Winston, external) but could be surprised or it could be a red herring.

Mendicant
2017-03-05, 01:35 PM
In addition to Jayem's ideas, an examination by someone with Knowledge: Nobility/History of the Earl's family tree would be in order also; interrelated family trees means interrelated claims to titles. The Earl's daughter might provide a useful pretext for her prospective in-law's warmongering, or help legitimize and solidify conquests. If that's the case, it would speak towards motive.

Is there mud in the room? It was pouring rain; there should be mud and water in the room, not just near the door and on the window silll. (I'm guessing right now that there isn't.)

A character with a good heal skill might be able to determine if Miles was dead when he was stabbed. (I'm guessing he was.)

A dagger in the back, at night, in the Earl's study suggests at least the possibility of mistaken identity. It might be worth it to have the party face convince the Earl to let one of the more fighty, high initiative PC's accompany him. (I think the dagger was an attempt at a red herring: an assassin with a grappling hook wouldn't leave his rope behind, and he would have brought his own knife. No need to broadcast that to the perpetrator though. It's also a good idea to see who's most eager to assume it was an assassin from outside.)

If I were in the party I'd keep the poison under my hat, and make sure someone with good bluff/sleight of hand was the one checking the wine with the butler. Do as much as possible to keep the poisoner from knowing we're aware of his/her involvement.

If there *are* tracks in the room, someone with track should compare the prints and see if they can get a sense of where the climber came from and where he went.

Mars Ultor
2017-03-05, 05:21 PM
The storm is still raging outside. The rain is coming down heavily, the wind is howling. You can hear thunder and lightning getting closer.

You all give each other an alibi, you are positive the murderer(s) isn't amongst the party members.

You close off the upstairs study--the crime scene from other members of the household.

The journal mostly looks like an accounting book, it's just numbers and some scrawled references. Some pages have been carefully torn out, but you can't tell what the pages might have contained, except numbers.

Winston, the butler, says there's a small liquor cabinet in the room with several small amphorae of wine inside. It's ordinary table wine, and usually only Miles and the earl drink it. If guests are present a better quality wine is provided from the cellar.

Winston obviously doesn't want to go outside--heavy rain--but he dresses in a heavy cloak and goes with a party member (I assume the ranger?) to search outside. When the ranger and Winston return they track mud into the downstairs entry hall and leave puddles from their wet cloaks. The ranger reports that she doesn't find any tracks or imprints of anything beneath the window, but the rain would have washed them away. The grass and flowers don't appear to have been trampled though, and the grappling hook rope appears to be too short to reach the ground. You'd have to jump down from the rope, not that much of an issue, but you probably couldn't jump up to reach the rope and begin climbing.

While the butler and ranger are outside, you can search the butler's room. The inside of the armoire has just regular clothing and personal items. The top shelf (inside) has a book or two on the shelf. The large one contains information about the Nobility and Royalty in the area. He's got personal information scrawled in the margins--what foods someone likes, how they like their bed prepared, or the names and ages of children. He also has a small string-bound book which is the equivalent of Butlering for Dummies. Winston has also written in the margins of this book. He has yellowed paper tucked into one of the books with a small, penciled map of the house and estate. No secret doors or anything are marked, just notations about the names of servants and what the buildings are for. You see it's pretty old and some names were crossed out and rewritten, it has several names you're not familiar with marked on the different bedrooms, Osbert & Winifred, Osfred, Osdela, and Godwin.

When you search the top (outside) of the armoire, you find a long, double-edged dagger; the missing pages from the journal, they contain just columns of numbers but some are circled and a "W" is written next to some of them; there's also a pouch with a surprising amount of coins (for what a butler would be paid, chump change for an adventurer).

You don’t find anyone else inside the house except the named people.

Oslina thanks for your kind words. She is very matter of fact about the wedding; it’s an agreement that will benefit her family and her future husband seems tolerable and has broad shoulders. She's glad that her in-law's lands are not too far away should she or her family want to visit each other. Her older sister got married to a man more than a week a way, they only see her once or twice a year.

I just want to be clear as to the room. This rectangular room in which the body was found, is on the second story and there are several windows. The door and open window are at the opposite ends of the room, set into the short walls of the rectangle. The long wall on the right has the balcony. The rogue says that the shutters and windows are easy enough to open from the outside if you have the right tools. The balcony door would take some work. It was (and is) raining heavily and the wind is blowing, it’s unlikely the windows or balcony door were opened by Miles (the dead man).

If you investigate the rope and grappling hook, besides being too short to reach the ground, the rope itself is not very heavy. It would be okay for a Halfling, an elf, or a light human. A human fighter, with no armor, might be too much for the rope—at least it certainly isn’t the rope you would choose to climb.

Leon, the jester, is thin and pale, but he could possibly climb the rope. Winston, the butler, is older than dirt and can’t climb a step-stool, a rope is out of the question.

Darth Ultron
2017-03-05, 05:32 PM
Well, I hope you had all the players agree to the murder mystery.....and I do mean the full blown ''ok, we will not be playing D&D at all, but more of a free form adventure.''. Most of the characters will have useless combat abilities for a mystery. And it's really a bummer to have a character with tons of all combat abilities and not be able to use them.

So...did the earl and the daughter not mention the upcoming wedding for a reason? It seems odd, unless there is a reason. Like when a character reads the letter and is like ''yo, earl baby, why did not not speak up about your daughter getting hitched? Is the Earl just going to say ''I did not say anything to make it a dramatic plot point for the DM's mystery."

The big thing though is....what is the players interest? Like old steward is dead, and there is some, um, mystery about his death...maybe. So why do the characters care? Even if the earl....for no reason is like ''hey random band of bloodthirsty all combat adventures will you solve this mystery even though your not detectives, law enforcement or have any type of real mystery solving abilities" why do the characters want to do it? Other then ''well this is the DM's railroad, lets ride along''?

The more action combat characters will just want to get dressed and go follow the trail outside and ignore all the stuff inside.

Mars Ultor
2017-03-05, 06:36 PM
Your own knowledge of history and/or Nobility & Royalty, as well as an examination of the family trees shows you that the earl and his wife are sort of distantly related. There’s a complete tree for the earl’s side of the family, it goes back generations. The other family trees are very patchy. The earl’s great-great-great grandfather and the lady’s great-great-great-great aunt were brother and sister. Aunt Evelyn is related to them both, as her great-great grandfather was the earl’s aforementioned 3x great grandfather’s brother. The information mostly covers the earl’s family, there are bits here and there with information about other families. The earl’s eldest, currently married daughter, has her own sheet with partial information for her new husband’s family, and a sheet was started for the daughter Oslina’s new family.

Burton of Hidcote, the groom-to-be’s father, is not a popular figure. His family originates in the area of Hidcote, named after either a small village or an animal pen depending on whom you ask. Burton’s father and uncle, both now deceased, gathered their relatives into a war-party and made their way in the world by killing everyone they met, usually cruelly, and grabbing their treasure and lands. They selectively moved across the north conquering minor nobles on the fringes of established kingdoms. They didn’t threaten the powerful rulers and they didn’t kill a vassal worth going to war over. Currently the Hidcotes are nominally “nobles” serving a king in a neighboring kingdom, but Burton pushes his boundaries and often finds “historical reasons” for absorbing neighboring land. (He’ll proclaim that his uncle killed the original noble and married the widow (whom then died an untimely death. Burton will claim that the widow was from a landed family and that the area he annexed was her unpaid dowry.)

The family tree of the Hidcotes, suggest that Miles, the dead steward, was Burton’s second cousin once removed. Miles’ shares the same great-great grandfather as Burton’s father.

Furthermore, your Knowledge suggests that the earl benefits from aligning himself with a more military powerful family. There are independent lands between their holdings, so he might not be concerned that Burton will invade him. Burton benefits because he allies himself with actual nobility and his new daughter-in-law will give him and his some more respectability. The earl, while not powerful himself, is an advisor to a king and is well thought of generally.


There doesn’t appear to be any mud at all inside the room. The windowsill is wet, and the floor and carpet near the balcony door are wet. The carpet also has some wet spots where the water and wine were spilled.

The heal check suggests that Miles was dead when he was stabbed. The cleric thinks there would be more blood if he were alive when he was stabbed.

The earl is happy having a bodyguard, and suspects the people from Devon killed Miles. They’ve always hated him, and they’re jealous bastards. The party’s Knowledge Local affirms that there are occasional border skirmishes with the neighboring kingdom of Devon, but you’re not aware of any major conflicts or attempts to invade anyone.

Could you be a little more specific about this: “If I were in the party I'd keep the poison under my hat, and make sure someone with good bluff/sleight of hand was the one checking the wine with the butler.” I’m not sure what you’re getting at.


There are no tracks in the room. There are the previously mentioned wet spots, and the area near the balcony door, but otherwise the carpet just has scattered drops of water. The fire had been going throughout the night, until Miles was dead and unable to add more wood. It’s possible there were other areas of minor wetness that are now dried.

ATHATH
2017-03-05, 07:05 PM
Well, I hope you had all the players agree to the murder mystery.....and I do mean the full blown ''ok, we will not be playing D&D at all, but more of a free form adventure.''. Most of the characters will have useless combat abilities for a mystery. And it's really a bummer to have a character with tons of all combat abilities and not be able to use them.
You could have the murderer(s) attack the party after they are absolutely sure that they have been caught- there are many abilities that can allow someone to teleport out of or break restraints.

Mendicant
2017-03-05, 07:07 PM
In re: the poison:

I wouldn't share with the family/suspects that we knew the victim was poisoned. I strongly suspect that the stabbing is a misdirect and wouldn't want the killer to be aware what we knew. Hence, whoever examines the wine for poison (or does any other poison-related investigating, really) to have skills that let them do it on the sly.

ATHATH
2017-03-05, 07:10 PM
Idea here: Have a schrodinger's mystery. Whoever the PCs capture/defeat is the murderer. You'd have to come up with motives and such for all of them, though.

Thrudd
2017-03-05, 07:22 PM
Why hasn't anyone looked at the balcony yet? Somebody clearly came in from there, since the carpet is wet. Is there any reason to think the door would have been locked? If the rope isn't long enough to get anywhere, and there is no evidence of tracks below the window, that is clearly a misdirection, unless it leads to a lower balcony or window you didn't mention.
Since we easily noticed the wetness in front of the door, we would also have noticed any wet tracks elsewhere in the room or leading out. It also was quite recent - so as soon as I came in the room I would have thrown the balcony doors open and looked around for anyone running or hiding.

Go out on the balcony and look for points of access and examine it - is another balcony close by, that someone could jump or climb to? A window above? A section of roof that could by walked across? Investigate any rooms that could have led to access to the balcony.

Search the murder room for any other secret points of egress, hidden doors etc.

Does the knife found in the butler's room have any evidence of blood? Question the butler regarding the pages found above the armoire. Also show them and the journal to the earl and ask what they mean, is he familiar with the journal, is it the official accounting ledger? Most likely a frame job, since the Butler seems so old and feeble. Although, he was clearly putting something on top of the armoire earlier, so he could be the poisoner, or he could have taken the pages but isn't the murderer. The pages may have been torn out at any time prior to the murder, any time in the past. Did the Steward recently take over his role from someone else, and inherited the ledger that was found? If the pages contained something that needed to be hidden, why would someone write them down in the book in the first place? Unless this is a private ledger notating the "real" expenses, rather than the official expense ledger which would normally be seen by the earl. Has the earl ever seen the journal that was found in the steward's room? The entire thing with the pages may be a part of framing the butler, making him look guilty of something when really the pages are nothing special and don't show anything suspicious (the earl might be able to clarify this if he seems surprised by the contents of the pages).

At some point after finding the stuff above his armoire, try to "accidentally" knock the butler over, trip him or bump him violently from behind - something that might trigger a reflexive reaction revealing that he isn't as slow and feeble as he seems.

Interrogate everyone privately regarding whether they have recently had contact with Burton or traveled to his barony and gauge their feelings re: the baron and the marriage. The Jester might be upset because he is in love with or having an affair with the daughter, and the upcoming marriage is bothering him.

Isolate Doris and examine her, does she still smell? Does her smell match the smell of the ink on the steward's hands or the stain on the carpet? Or any of the wine amphorae found in the steward's room? Can the smell be identified? Search her room. The person who first finds the victim is always a suspect.

Are doors locked with keys, or simple latches and bolts? If there are keys, ask who in the house has keys or a skeleton key for any/all rooms. It seems likely the butler and maid would have something like that. If the balcony door was locked, it could have been unlocked with such a key (although it seems strange such a door would even have a lock, since nobody is expected to access the room from the balcony, besides the inhabitant).

Darth Ultron
2017-03-05, 08:16 PM
There are no tracks in the room.

Careful here, this is getting close to jerk DM territory. You have the murder with ''no evidence'' and then you have the boring history wall of text that few will follow and a whole house of cabbage head folks and a mystery.

I can see the red flag of ''you know X'', some small detail that your not saying, like ''an mark on a scroll'' or whatever that your just sitting on and waiting for a player to, randomly, say ''oh, I move the book case and look for a secret door and make a metal detector out of two copper coins and an egg shell and find the metal box with the scroll on it.'' And..somehow you think ''knowing the name of the earls dead parents '' will somehow make a player say ''I look for the secret door'', as the two are...well...not connected at all.

I can see your going to have the problem of telling the players ''here is 100,000 words of text'' and then you will sit back and be like ''ok, what do you do?"

Mendicant
2017-03-05, 09:05 PM
No tracks in the room *is* evidence. No tracks + the bs grappling hook + the poison = 3 different threads that point towards the same conclusion: the knife in the back is a red herring.

jayem
2017-03-06, 02:38 AM
And the noise directly led us to the papers and the wrong knife.
Before the Butler confrontation, I'd like to ask everyone about knives/pointy things in the house and then look at them, (it gives the Butler a chance to give an innocent explanation for his, we might find the bloody knife, or another knife missing, and it forces the suspects to commit to something.

Also we want everyone's (we don't have anything at all for the Women and Jester) alibi's.

(Good point about the balcony, also can ask people about the hook).

Hindsight will tell, (the storyteller could be making it all up lost style), but I'd say we've made about the expected progress. It's been what 30 minutes game time (15 minutes set up, 15 minutes post murder)?
And we have a list of contradictions with the rope, and balcony. Clearly some visitor(s) who just talked (&kissed?/gave poison) either before or after Miles was there. Anything about the hook that suggests not premeditated? If not then the (faked) exit must have been planned.
We have the accounting trail, clearly somethings dodgy with something called W.
We haven't made progress with the wedding thread, or the envelope.

Mars Ultor
2017-03-06, 07:25 AM
Well, I hope you had all the players agree to the murder mystery.....and I do mean the full blown ''ok, we will not be playing D&D at all, but more of a free form adventure.'' [. . .] The big thing though is....what is the players interest? Like old steward is dead, and there is some, um, mystery about his death...maybe. So why do the characters care? Even if the earl....for no reason is like ''hey random band of bloodthirsty all combat adventures will you solve this mystery even though your not detectives, law enforcement or have any type of real mystery solving abilities" why do the characters want to do it? Other then ''well this is the DM's railroad, lets ride along''?

I appreciate your concern that I'm forcing the players into this scenario, but you're starting with the assumption that they're "bloodthirsty." I've incorporated small puzzles and cryptic documents into prior adventures and those are the things they get excited about. They enjoy roleplaying as well, not just combat. Also, it doesn't mean the fighter can't do anything because he doesn't have Spot. Perhaps he won't find the clue, but there's no skill check to understand something. I think they'll be interested in it and I've mentioned it's something I'm considering to several of the players and they're interested, hopefully the whole group will enjoy it.



So...did the earl and the daughter not mention the upcoming wedding for a reason? It seems odd, unless there is a reason. Like when a character reads the letter and is like ''yo, earl baby, why did not not speak up about your daughter getting hitched? Is the Earl just going to say ''I did not say anything to make it a dramatic plot point for the DM's mystery."

That's an oversight on my part. Now I know to have it mentioned during dinner.

Darth Ultron
2017-03-06, 07:58 AM
I appreciate your concern that I'm forcing the players into this scenario, but you're starting with the assumption that they're "bloodthirsty." I've incorporated small puzzles and cryptic documents into prior adventures and those are the things they get excited about. They enjoy roleplaying as well, not just combat. Also, it doesn't mean the fighter can't do anything because he doesn't have Spot. Perhaps he won't find the clue, but there's no skill check to understand something. I think they'll be interested in it and I've mentioned it's something I'm considering to several of the players and they're interested, hopefully the whole group will enjoy it.

Just checking. A lot of people don't like mysteries and more so a lot of people don't like mysteries in D&D. Some people are find just putting away the character sheet and free from playing a mystery....but some are not. And the players with any types of non combat abilities will have lots to do, while the combat ones just sit there. It might make the more combat ones feel left out. Yes they can role play, but that is only part of D&D. When player A has a character do a dozen skill checks and other roll things, player B does not feel so great putting away the dice bag and siting there like ''um, does my character see anything?''. And it only gets worse when it's something like ''roll a check'' and the character can't or will get a low roll.

You might want to add some combat. For example, some type of attacker to distract the characters from the murder or even just a bandit or wild animal/monster.





That's an oversight on my part. Now I know to have it mentioned during dinner.

That is what makes complicated mysteries hard.

Mars Ultor
2017-03-06, 08:06 AM
Careful here, this is getting close to jerk DM territory. You have the murder with ''no evidence'' and then you have the boring history wall of text that few will follow and a whole house of cabbage head folks and a mystery.

I can see the red flag of ''you know X'', some small detail . . .

I can see your going to have the problem of telling the players ''here is 100,000 words of text'' and then you will sit back and be like ''ok, what do you do?"


I can't decide if you're pointing out the issues as you see them, or if you're just complaining you wouldn't want to play this adventure.

There's already been evidence presented so far, as referenced by other posters. There's evidence that's yet to be discovered.

Although there are some small details, I've also included some broad things that I'm sure will be noticed (such as the dagger as a red herring).

A lot of the text will be eliminated by just referencing that the earl's father worked on family trees and providing them with props. Obviously the genealogy provides information or it wouldn't be included. I've considered cutting it entirely, but then I'll need another motive for the murder. I'm not against a new motive, I just haven't thought of one.

Mars Ultor
2017-03-06, 09:02 AM
Firstly, in regards to the question about the poisoned wine, the druids can see a little bit of residue in the goblet and it appears the open amphora may be poisoned as well. The other amphorae are sealed with wax, and the seals are all pretty similar. They'd have to have been poisoned at the time of manufacture, and there's nothing distinguishing these jugs from each other. They all have a vintner's name and the date scratched on the bottom, but are otherwise nearly identical. (They're made of clay, by hand, so it's possible there are small differences, but nothing more than the regular variation is apparent.)

The poison itself is simple, it seems mostly a common poisonous berry and perhaps a toxic leaf. The poison is of darker color than wine, but mixed with wine it wouldn't be noticeable.


The balcony door is unlocked, presumably from the inside. There's a bolt opposite each hinge, no keyhole, no way to lock it from the outside.

The balcony itself is not easily accessible from anywhere else but inside the room. It's possible that someone could have climbed down from the roof on a rope, but it's a steep slate roof and the rogue thinks the heavy rain would have made it difficult, although not impossible. You don't see a rope dangling, but it could have been pulled up. It's also possible to have thrown up a rope from the courtyard below, but you find no rope.

There are no tracks or wet spots other than what's I've mentioned, but you do notice there is a small overhang over of the balcony and that seems to prevent a lot of the rain from coming in. However, the water running off you enlarges the already existing wet spot when you come in from the outside.

There are no hidden doors or secret anythings in this room.

The butler's knife doesn't match the wound. His blade is double-edged, the murder weapon appears single-edged. The butler's blade is clean of blood, but the sheath is dusty. The dagger doesn't slide out easily, the leather hasn't been properly oiled and it's sticking to the blade. It appears it hasn't been used in a long time.

The earl studies the ledger and the torn out pages and surmises that Winston has been skimming from the household purse. He's in charge of paying the staff, deliveries, ordinary supplies, etc., and it looks like he helps himself to some of the money occasionally.

Winston, the butler, has always handled the petty cash, the dead steward handled the larger stuff. Winston and Miles have always had a difficult relationship and Miles was a suspicious sort, the earl is surprised the theft has gone on so long with the steward having noticed it.

The earl is aware of the ledger but he's never been interested in numbers. When he took control of the remaining family wealth years ago, he made an all-or-nothing bet on a stone bridge and ferry by the town down the hill and since then it's grown into a city. He's collecting more in taxes than he ever thought possible and doesn't worry about money.

You bump Winston and now he's fallen and he can't get up. He's in agony and a heal check suggests a broken hip. I'm going to assume you heal him. Or you can withhold healing and interrogate him, it's up to you.

Except for the earl, everyone claims they've only had contact with Burton the one time he and his son visited the manor for several days. It was after that visit that the marriage proposal was first made. The lady was initially against the wedding, but she says her husband convinced her, and her daughter will be nearby so they'll still see each other. She's not lying, but she's not particularly sincere.

Leon, the jester, is extremely nervous and denies knowing anything. He starts to hug himself and rock if you question him.


Doris smells like potpourri and you find several herbs and flowers and such in a little basket in her room. One of the plants in the basket is hemp, but nothing that's poisonous. She's got a few pages of herbal "recipes" on some parchment tucked in the basket. When isolated and asked about her plants, Doris says, "I made it, the lady and that druid girl taught me how to make my perfume. Do you like it? The lady used to do her gardening, but after what happened with her poor baby she gave it up. A long time ago the lady made it and then I copied out the instructions from a book. When the tutor for the children was here, she taught me a little reading, you know."

"She was a young woman, the tutor, said she was training to be a druid. I always wondered about them druids—no offense—and them always cavorting about in the woods. Dancing here and there, and rubbing up against trees. Taking off their clothing, men and women druids alike, and running around, hopping into cold streams, and rolling around in the grass. I can’t imagine why you would take a job as a tutor if you could be jumping about in the altogether and laying in the sun. A woman of my years of course, inside the nursery teaching the little ones about which berries you could eat or how to write their names, but a young woman like her, she should have been there, living free, comingling with the other druids if you get my meaning. I mean all those unclothed young men and women, circling those enormous stones that are standing up, pointing into the air. That’s a little obvious for my tastes, but it’s not my place to judge.”

“She used to go around with Leon while she was here, going off into the kennels and spending time alone there, just them and the dogs. Not a big fan of dogs, they’d eat you as soon as look at you, I say. They never bit those two, though, those dogs loved Leon and Dwyn. What a fair girl she was, never knew what she saw in Leon. He’s not a proper jester, is he? Keeps the dogs well, but always hugging them and rubbing them. Not my business, he can rub whatever dog belly he pleases, but it’s unseemly isn’t it?”


The doors are mostly latched or bolted. You haven't encountered anything yet with an actual lock.

Mars Ultor
2017-03-06, 09:44 AM
Alibis

I'm going to assume that you pick an unoccupied room and question them separately. This leads me to think I've got to include a minor NPC assistant so the suspects can be watched while the entire party plays Good adventurer/Bad adventurer with the individual suspects. Diplomacy, Intimidation, and Sense Motive, would be the likely ways to question someone, so I'll assume that's what you do.


The Earl

The earl is wearing his nightshirt, and a cap.

“It had to be someone from the Kingdom of Devon, most likely Honiton, to the south because they’re all animals down there. They’d kill their mother for a copper coin. Mothers, they’d kill their mothers for a copper coin. They don’t all have the same mother obviously. It’s not like everyone in Devon is related. I hear they marry their own sisters though and that’s why the whole kingdom is full of sneak-thieves, backstabbers, and idiots.

They’ve always hated Somersetters, jealous they are, jealous. It’s a pig-sty of criminals and imbeciles. They do make good lace though, it you want a nice dress for your lady, or a bit of lace for any other reason, you should go to Honiton, they make the best lace.

Also, good soil in Devon, you can grow anything there. I’m not a particular fan of fruit, a bit too sweet for my tastes, but you can get good fruit in Devon, strawberries particularly. My old auntie loved strawberries, we used to call her “old Auntie Berry” because she loved berries so much. You know, strawberries aren’t actually berries because they have seeds on the outside, but they’re remarkably good to eat, even if you don’t like fruit. And you can get the best ones in Devon.

Tin, too. There are tin mines all over Devon, the whole kingdom is bursting forth with tin. Their tinsmiths are pretty good, too. If you want good tin, good lace, and strawberries, you go to Devon. They’re horrible bastards, though. Bunch of thugs and swindlers. I think they did it.”

The early was tired and a little drunk and slept soundly through the most of the night. He remembers being half asleep and telling his wife the roof was leaking.

The Lady

Lady Godelina, the earl's wife, whose nightgown and robe covers her completely, doesn't seem like she was a fan of Miles, but doesn't seem like she's a fan of anyone. She always has her arms folded or covered by her sleeves, but she adjusts her nightcap at one point and it's possible that a more sharp-eyed member of the party detects that she has old burn scars on her forearm. The lady suggests that the people from Devon are always plotting against her husband, but she doesn't seem to actually believe it.

The Daughter

The daughter, Oslina, is wearing a sleeping gown and a robe. Her hair is bundled and wrapped together in a little sack on her head. She says that Miles appeared to be a loyal and hardworking employee and that she can't imagine who would wish him harm. She says that she left her room during the night because she thought she left an earring downstairs, but then realized it was caught in her hair and returned to her room. While downstairs she saw Aunt Evelyn coming out of the kitchen with a knife. She's never trusted Aunt Evelyn, she's a phony. Online seems mostly credible, but her earring story doesn't ring quite true.

The Son

Osgood, the earl's boy. "Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son." He seems witless, is half dressed under his robe, has red eyes, and smells of wine. He says maybe it was Leon, the jester, or Winston, the butler, or "Stop pressuring me! I don't know anything! Leave me alone! I was in my room all night!" You get the sense he's clueless and dishonest.

The Maid

Doris, the maid, is gossipy and rambles on. She suspects everyone, and says the brother and sister, are always conspiring together. "I've seen them sneaking into his room at night with their arms around each other. It's not my business, but everyone knows all these highborn families are incestuous. Can you imagine? Having private relations with your sister? No, seriously, can you? What's you sister look like? Are you close?"

Doris says the jester is peculiar and she doesn't understand what the earl finds funny about him. "He isn't even a proper jester, he can hardly juggle. He loves the dogs though, can get them to walkabout on their hind legs like a person. He used to spend a lot of time with Lady Godelina, she brought him over in the marriage. Sometimes they whisper together and she hugs him, can you imagine? A person of her breeding with a person like that? But the heart wants what the heart wants."

"I would never tell the earl, it isn't my place. And I'm not sure why Leon would want the lady, she's older than him and has her . . . problem. It's nothing. It's not my place to talk about it. I've said too much. It isn't proper to gossip."

"Anyway, why shouldn't the lady have some comfort when the earl is always out there gallivanting about with people like you--no offense--and getting himself involved in things. Probably always rescuing desperate maidens, who are thankful for being rescued. Very thankful, if you know what I mean. Have you ever rescued a maiden? How thankful was she? Was she thankful more than once?"

"Lady Godelina could definitely kill someone, a few times I've overheard the lady say to the earl, 'Oswin, I couldn't sleep last night on occasion of your snoring. I swear I will smother you to death with a pillow if that continues.' The earl seemed to trust Miles, that the lady didn't seem to like him--she not a friendly sort--except with the jester--and that sometimes he (Miles) would get all high and mighty, but only when the earl wasn't around."

"Winston is an odd bird. He used to sneak off at night with a small backpack, but hasn't done that in many years. Miles and Winston didn't like each other and I caught them involved in whispering arguments a few times. You know how people are."

"A long time ago, I once saw Winston bathing--it was an accident--why would I be creeping around try to catch people all unclothed rubbing slippery soap all over their wet bodies? It wouldn't be proper. Anyway, Winston had scars on his body. He's a good butler, very slow, as you know, but a good butler."

"Aunt Evelyn is a snob, she thinks she's Queen Gunhild. There's a real noble lady, the queen. She's got real class and is a beauty, too, have you met her? (You have actually.) What a lovely, lovely woman. A bit tall though. Didn't you think she was a bit tall? It isn't my place to pass judgement on the queen, but a queen should be a more modest size, shouldn't she? It's unseemly for a woman to be that tall, let alone a queen. Beautiful though, I imagine that's what an elf queen looks like. Have you ever met an elf queen? (One of you has.) She's sure that Queen Gunhild is just like that. Except that the elves aren't particularly tall, are they? Living in the woods tends to make you small I expect. There a bit too small, almost like children, it give me the willies. You're a large elf (one in the party), my dear, I'm perfectly fine with you. But some of them are awfully short aren't they? Of course you good-folk (halflings, two in the party) are small, too, but you're meant to be small, aren't you? It's very becoming on you, you're such darlings. Anyway, the queen is strangely tall, but it's not my place, and Aunt Evelyn is nothing like the queen. She wouldn't have done it anyway--killed Miles--she wouldn't want to get her royal hands dirty."

Aunt Evelyn

"Aunt" Evelyn outright accuses Lady Godelina, the wife, of the murder. Evelyn says the lady has admitted her intentions to murder the earl on prior occasions. “I’ll kill him if he keeps bringing his muddy dogs into the house,” or “I’ll strangle him if he doesn’t stop putting his boots on the furniture.” When reminded that the earl is not dead, it’s Miles, she will say, “Who? The steward? He seemed nice enough. That’s too bad. Poor fellow.”

She will admit that she thought she heard a man and woman whispering downstairs, but couldn’t hear what they said. If asked why she was downstairs she looks up for a moment and then says, "I was sleepwalking! That's it, I was sleepwalking. People do that right? Sleepwalking. Ever since I was a baby."


The Jester

Leon, the jester, is clearly agitated and sits there rocking and hugging himself. He says he witnessed someone fleeing the scene of the crime. He thinks it might have been Winston, the butler. He also says that he saw Evelyn, the aunt, downstairs at dark, when normally she would have been in bed. He claims he doesn't have much of an opinion on Miles, except that he didn't have a sense of humor. But then insists Miles wasn't a nice man, he was a bad man, a bad man. He gets a little teary eyed and his voice goes up. Leon claims he was a little thirsty and went to get a drink—that’s why he was up so late at night.


The Butler

Winston, the ancient butler, has either been healed or is in agony from being knocked over. Either way he says he'll confesses everything. He tells you he used to be a robber and he met Belvedere, the prior butler, on the road returning to Hendford Manor (here). Winston pretended he was traveling to visit a far away town and had been set upon by bandits and was now lost and penniless. Belvedere invited him to stay at the manor, told him how nice the earl was (this would have been the earl's father), and how great the house was.

Winston thought that sounded great, but then realized that after a few days he'd have to leave again. Winston started to think he was getting too old for the life of a highwayman and it was getting harder and harder to fight people who resisted. He decided to kill Belvedere and replace him. He arrived at the manor, told the story of how he found Belvedere dead on the road, already robbed and dying, and offered to help out for a short time. He was taken in and given the butler's duties. He started to steal a little bit of the household expenses, taking a few coins here and there, and also casing the place seeing what he could take. Every once in a while he would decide to leave and would sneak out at night, but after walking a bit, he realized how good he had it here.

The old earl was always interested in history and family trees, he never suspected anything. The current earl never checked the books and had know him for years so he never questioned him. Only Miles was the problem, everyone else liked him. A few months after Miles arrived, Miles confronted him about the missing money and demanded a payoff. Miles started blackmailing Winston and showed him that Miles had tracked everything in his ledger and that's how he discovered things. Winston had the sense that Miles didn't even want the money, he just wanted some power of him.

Miles started getting cockier and more abusive and Winston, who loved it here after all these years, and had grown to be fond of everyone and didn't want to leave. He decided that he would threaten Miles and demand that everything stop. He felt he had lived long enough under Miles' thumb and his health was failing. He couldn't take the stress and worry of being turned in. He went to take his old dagger from the top of the armoire and nearly fell off the stool, it tipped over and he had to catch the furniture to prevent his fall. That's when the party came into the room and saw him.

Later that night, Winston took his dagger and crept into Miles room, but it was empty. He could hear the earl snoring when he was by that door, so he figured Miles was in the study alone. He went in there to confront Miles and threaten him, but found him slumped over the desk, already dead. There was no dagger in him, and the room wasn't messy. He thought it was drafty in the room, even with the fire still burning somewhat, but didn't stop to investigate. He quickly went through the ledger and tried to carefully tear out all the pages he thought implicated him. Then he returned to his room and hid everything on top of his armoire. He fell asleep after a while and was woken in the morning by Doris' scream.

LokiRagnarok
2017-03-07, 04:38 PM
Confront the lady regarding the story with the baby and "her problem".
Actually, cross-reference with her genealogy tree first. Is there a deceased, missing, or otherwise special baby listed somewhere around her? Who is the father? What were the circumstances of the special event regarding the baby?
Cross-check the story about the baby with the old butler. He would know.

What does the earl think about the jester? Why does he keep him around?

Who was particularly close with the tutor the Aunt mentions? Who would have been likely to learn about properties of plants, like the Aunt did? Presumably the children? Were both of them around/of appropriate age to have contact with the tutor?

Incidentally, does this place have a proper garden? If yes, who was in charge of it? Investigate the garden for tracks/obviously missing plants. (I don't expect to find any, but it would be stupid not to look.)


(Side note, the monologues made me chuckle).

Mars Ultor
2017-03-08, 09:08 AM
A boy, Godwin, is listed on the earl's family tree; he died before the age of three. The butler says there was a pox going around. It upset the lady greatly. Winston assures you that the child was the spitting image of his father, the earl.


If you continue on and ask the lady, she's offended that you ask about this and asks how it's relevant. She says she doesn't know what you could be referring to as her "problem" and aren't you supposed to be tracking down assassins from Devon, instead of delving into her personal life?


Earl Oswin says his wife's uncle, had a small castle and as a child, the lady spent a lot of time there with her cousins. Leon was a boy who worked in the kennels. There was an attack on the castle and the lady's cousins, etc., were killed and many buildings were set on fire. Leon hid her in the kennels, someone set fire to the building, and she and the jester escaped, but the dogs were trapped inside and killed.

Leon was traumatized by the experience, but the family took him. The earl once found Leon curled up on the floor in the kitchen crying during a thunderstorm, the howling of the dogs upset him. The earl took him to the kennels and he knows that Leon sometimes sneaks out to sleep with the dogs.

Leon and Lady Godelina are very protective of one another but he doesn't suspect anything inappropriate. The only woman Leon ever seemed interested in was the tutor.

Leon can tell a few jokes and has learned how to play a (small) harp to a decent degree.


Both children were taught by the tutor, and Doris, the maid, as well. Leon and Doris, to a degree, were the only ones who socialized with the tutor. She taught the children the usual things; the alphabet, simple math, history, and a little bit about plants and animals.


Other than the food garden, there's a smaller garden the lady used to take an interest in, she was always growing different flowers, but then the kids and the tutor/druid took it over for their studies. Now Doris mostly cares for it. The ranger find no tracks, but the rain would have washed them away. The garden is somewhat maintained and it's obvious that herbs and flowers have been cut from there regularly.

Mendicant
2017-03-09, 05:15 PM
Who attacked the castle and caused the fire that scarred the lady of the house?

MintyNinja
2017-03-09, 06:09 PM
Possibly doing this improperly but I've just read through it all now.

I have a theory: Osgood poisoned the wine in the study, intending to kill his father so he could inherit. However, he killed Miles by accident. Then Winston came in and stole the pages of the ledger, leaving an unstabbed Miles at the desk. Osgood checks in before the maid and, realizing his error, stabs the steward with a hunting knife from a wall to cover up the poisoning. Check him for a bloody knife?


In all, though, it's tough to really care much about the mystery of it if the players aren't concerned with the family. You really need to engross them during that first day and let them feel comfortable. That will make the mystery part of it all the more interesting.

Mordar
2017-03-09, 06:43 PM
I like the run of things thus far...given what we've seen, I think that (for good story purposes) it must not be:


Someone we haven't met - if the characters haven't physically met the murderer by this point I think it will feel too Bad Agatha Christie. So while the druid tutor is an interesting side-story, I think it should be strictly distraction. Additionally, the room was very nicely set up to suggest someone inside pretending to have either come from or escaped to the outside;
Miles himself in some bizarre suicide-to-stop-something plot - Sure, it should go without saying, but I'm saying it anyway!
The Butler - I very much like how you have him set up, and I think a second twist where he really is the killer diminishes the art of what you've done;
The Earl - his potential motives (cuckolding as suggested by the maid, perhaps discovering some scheme by Miles to assist the Hidcotes) would suggest a more forceful confrontation and no fear of reprisal.


So that leaves the Lady, the Bride to Be, the Sot, the Aunt, the Jester and the Maid.

I'm suspecting the Jester and the Lady...with the Jester acting as a protector of the Lady. Not sure why yet...

- M

Beneath
2017-03-09, 07:53 PM
The Earl is the Earl; if he wanted his steward dead he could, presumably, have him executed (I don't know if that power is reserved for the king), or framed for something, or something similar. Probably not him.

His two kids have the opportunity, but we haven't seen motive from them. The butler has motive, but not the means and he's already confessed to everything else, so we can eliminate him as a suspect.

We have confirmed that the dagger was a red herring though, and the rope too.

The Ladies (the Earl's wife and the aunt) have been acting suspicious, but other than that we don't have much to go on. I'm inclined to think the Earl's wife's suspicious acting is a red herring though; maybe she's, like, a vampire or something completely unrelated to the murder.

The Maid and the Jester are possibilities too.

The people on my current likely suspect list are Oslina, Osgood, Leon, Evelyn, and finally Godelina. Oslina and Osgood could be acting together; regardless they and Evelyn seem to be trying to throw suspicion on eachother.

How much interest did Godelina take in the affairs of the household? Did she leave it to Miles and Winston or did she manage the two of them when Oswin was away or inattentive? If she played an active role in managing the household it'd be suspicious if she seemed so apathetic about someone she worked w/ closely being murdered; if not then it's still suspicious that she doesn't care about someone taking care of her money being murdered unless she takes a completely blaze attitude toward money.

We really need a better idea of what was going on downstairs. We know Oslina, Evelyn, and Leon were down there (and Winston). Oslina and Evelyn are lying about why. If Evelyn's telling the truth about what she heard than Oslina was talking to someone else there (maybe Osgood, given what Doris said, but possibly Leon or even Miles before he was killed), unless Godelina or Doris was also out and about. Winston didn't see anyone else, he said.

Leon should maybe be pressed a little harder. Maybe justify it (at least to the Earl) by saying it's not right to speak ill of someone who was just murdered, but we want to get him to go into what he has against Miles. His alibi puts him in position to poison the wine, too, which is more than we can say about anyone else yet. (Edit: after the post below, I agree it'd be better to try to good-cop him than to press him)

I'm starting to suspect, on review, that the knife wound was planted as a deliberate frame job directed at Winston after he was seen up and about with a knife.

Thrudd
2017-03-09, 08:06 PM
Someone in the house is secretly a druid, the Jester, the Lady, Doris or all of them. They flew to the balcony in bird form, and entered that way, causing the puddle. They could have left the same way, but it has been stressed that the overhang prevents rain from coming in from outside, so the puddle could only be caused by someone already wet standing there.

However, the poisoner needn't have ever entered the room - the wine amphora could have been poisoned anywhere. In fact, I don't know why we didn't start investigating the wine amphora already. This is the murder weapon. Start investigating the chain of custody of the amphora. Does the wine always stay in the room, or does someone deliver it? Since this is the earl's study, ask him if he knows whether the poisoned amphora is one that has been in the study, had he or Miles opened it on a prior night?
If it was already opened and in the room when Miles entered, then somebody must have entered earlier in the day and poisoned it. Ask Winston who might go into the earl's study besides the earl and Miles. Does someone clean it? Does anyone else in the family go in there? Did anyone see anybody going in or out of the study prior to the murder?
Also, since we've identified the poison, do we know how long it takes to work? Instantaneous, or some hours?

After the lady came in and brought the earl to bed, in the twenty minutes the party is left alone, Miles may be dead already- Winston could have already gone in and ripped the pages out during that time, and was actually putting them up there when the party passed by and heard the thump.
Did anyone go into the study or see Miles alive at any point during the night, after he left the library, to better establish a time line? Doris?

Is there any reason to think that this wine was intended for Miles? If the wine was poisoned or placed earlier in the day, before Miles went there, the poisoner may have thought the Earl would go there first. However, that seems like a sloppy plan, since everyone would know that Miles spends a lot of time in there. Is it possible the poisoner meant to kill the Earl, went in to the study to check on him and found they had poisoned Miles instead, and then decided to stab in the hopes that everyone would miss the poison wine (and so try to cover up that the earl was the real target)? That would be why the knife was grabbed from the wall rather than carried by the killer, it was a decision made in the moment. The stupid and dishonest son could be a candidate for this.

When Miles declared that he was going to do work, the son left almost immediately after. Did anyone actually see where he went after that? Who else was in the library with the party, besides the earl, Miles, and the son? The lady must not have been, because she came in to call earl to bed.

The jumpy jester needs to be convinced or coerced to spill the beans about what he's nervous about and holding back. Can one of the druids cozy up to him, go out to the kennel or something, and play "good cop" ? Try and calm him, make him feel safe, and convince him they want to help.

Don't druids have a secret language? They should try it on Doris, the jester and the lady, see if either of them slip up and reveal something. The excuse, of course, would be that the tutor taught it to them when they were kids, but we all know that's BS. Druids don't teach the language to anyone but initiated druids, right? If that's even a thing in your world.

SanguisAevum
2017-03-10, 09:56 AM
Still reading through the whole thing, But needed to say this ASAP.

PLEASE be mindful it is NOT the PLAYERS who are solving this mystery it should be the CHARACTERS

If your mate "Dave" who is a lecturer in chemistry is playing "Grug the thicko barbarian" (Int7) and he starts putting evidential threads together and solving problems... something is not right.

Similarly... if you have a player who is playing an Int20 character but isn't great at this sort of thing in real life... you ABSOLUTLY should be giving him hints.. his CHARACTER would inherently be able to examine evidence and make reliable connections / deductions.

Basically... make sure your taking the Characters abilities into account... and not letting the PLAYERS solve the mystery out of character... cos if you do... then your not playing DnD... your not playing the characters, your simply having your real life mates solve a mystery.

Blackhawk748
2017-03-10, 11:10 AM
God lord this is a tangled mess, but i can follow it well enough. I would recommend that you recommend to your players to take notes during this, cuz that will be very helpful.

jayem
2017-03-10, 12:41 PM
Still reading through the whole thing, But needed to say this ASAP.

PLEASE be mindful it is NOT the PLAYERS who are solving this mystery it should be the CHARACTERS
...

Although true, and there are numerous ways this should be different from a detective novel (one set of clues presented to you, with one contradiction that resolves them).
I wouldn't be too fundamentalist about that, either. The genie is out anyway with regard to all the other aspects of the game. It's more important to have fun, and you don't just want to watch the characters. But do try to give the Character's skills some room to play.

And anything on notes, seem a good idea, I don't know if you could have some on cards ready, or otherwise. Perhaps you could give them to the 'intelligent character', it would give them a head start on deductions.

We still don't know anything about the ladies alleged post dinner, pre bed movements, we know they left the room before us.
Or a number of the male characters (Leon, Butler) (which is when I'd expect something to have happened).
Although we do know of some nocturnal movements..

We need to find why Evelyn went downstairs, and who the bloke was (talking to Oslina? Or were there three wandering ladies?)
Do the Earl&Lady sleep together?

Mendicant
2017-03-10, 07:00 PM
PLEASE be mindful it is NOT the PLAYERS who are solving this mystery it should be the CHARACTERS

Meh. Let their skills and class features get chances to shine, but I agree with Jayem--don't step on a player with a good insights or observations just because they don't have a good enough Wisdom or something. I'd be careful about hints too, though certainly less so. It's really easy to basically just lead them around by the nose, as the "smart" hero just becomes an exposition mouthpiece for the DM.

Thrudd
2017-03-10, 09:33 PM
Still reading through the whole thing, But needed to say this ASAP.

PLEASE be mindful it is NOT the PLAYERS who are solving this mystery it should be the CHARACTERS

If your mate "Dave" who is a lecturer in chemistry is playing "Grug the thicko barbarian" (Int7) and he starts putting evidential threads together and solving problems... something is not right.

Similarly... if you have a player who is playing an Int20 character but isn't great at this sort of thing in real life... you ABSOLUTLY should be giving him hints.. his CHARACTER would inherently be able to examine evidence and make reliable connections / deductions.

Basically... make sure your taking the Characters abilities into account... and not letting the PLAYERS solve the mystery out of character... cos if you do... then your not playing DnD... your not playing the characters, your simply having your real life mates solve a mystery.

In this case, I think you're wrong. Other than skills needed to get certain information, this sort of game is all about the players. If the "characters" solve it (or don't because they don't have the right skills/stats), there is no point to the exercise at all. It's a murder mystery, there's no point in role-playing stupid: the players need to do this 100%.

Braininthejar2
2017-03-10, 10:22 PM
A lot of things I wanted to mention have already been said by others, so I'm letf with just small bits:

1 The rope is 95% red herring (there is water on the carpet, but no mud - which showed up whenever someone entered from the outside in the previous scenes)

1a even so, just to make sure - I check the end of the rope. Does it look like it could have snapped?

2 Sadly, your explanations of the family trees don't help me - I'd need to see those in the picture. What I need to know is how the marriage changes the inheritance situation for those involved - doesn't the earl have an elder daughter already married to one of the neighbours?

3 Check the other servants and how long they have worked for the family - if it is indeed some plot by one of the neighbours, than the killer might well be one of the unnamed extras that showed up during the supper. (people aren't marked as 'unnamed extras' in real life, so the characters wouldn't know if they are a part of the story.)

4 The knife could have come from the kitchen, but I'd guess it's one of those in the trophy room. Let's see what we can find.

5 Finally, if we can identify the herbs that went into the poison, we could see if we can find any more of it within the manor - at level 3 the party druid will have access to scent, one way or another.

Mars Ultor
2017-03-11, 01:03 PM
Who attacked the castle and caused the fire that scarred the lady of the house?

A group from Oxhill, a town less than a day's ride from Hidcote. They call themselves the Roboli Clan, a group was that was later subsumed into the armies of Burton's father and uncle.

Mars Ultor
2017-03-11, 01:15 PM
Possibly doing this improperly but I've just read through it all now.

Check him [Osgood, the son] for a bloody knife?

In all, though, it's tough to really care much about the mystery of it if the players aren't concerned with the family. You really need to engross them during that first day and let them feel comfortable. That will make the mystery part of it all the more interesting.

If you search Osgood, the son, and/or his room you find no bloody knife. However he does have a fresh cut on the heel of his right hand. Osgood has a shirt and vest thrown on the floor of his room. They've got red stains on them, probably wine, not blood. The vest has a little bit of blood on it. There seems to be a little bit of poison on the sole of one of his shoes.


I just assumed intellectual curiosity as their motivation for solving the mystery, but I think you're right and I'll have to have to think of something which gives them a more personal connection. I do have photos of the people I'm going to give them, but I'll add something else.

Mars Ultor
2017-03-11, 01:20 PM
I like the run of things thus far...given what we've seen, I think that (for good story purposes) it must not be:


Someone we haven't met - if the characters haven't physically met the murderer by this point I think it will feel too Bad Agatha Christie. So while the druid tutor is an interesting side-story, I think it should be strictly distraction. Additionally, the room was very nicely set up to suggest someone inside pretending to have either come from or escaped to the outside;
Miles himself in some bizarre suicide-to-stop-something plot - Sure, it should go without saying, but I'm saying it anyway!
The Butler - I very much like how you have him set up, and I think a second twist where he really is the killer diminishes the art of what you've done;
The Earl - his potential motives (cuckolding as suggested by the maid, perhaps discovering some scheme by Miles to assist the Hidcotes) would suggest a more forceful confrontation and no fear of reprisal.


So that leaves the Lady, the Bride to Be, the Sot, the Aunt, the Jester and the Maid.

I'm suspecting the Jester and the Lady...with the Jester acting as a protector of the Lady. Not sure why yet...

- M


It's definitely one of the named characters. It was not Miles.

Everyone expects the butler to do it, so it can't be the butler. It should be the butler because everyone expects that it wouldn't be, but then if it is the butler, people assume it was just the butler all along and they don't appreciate the irony. So it's not the butler.

The earl could have had Miles killed without resorting to a mystery.

Mars Ultor
2017-03-11, 01:40 PM
The Earl is the Earl; if he wanted his steward dead he could, presumably, have him executed (I don't know if that power is reserved for the king), or framed for something, or something similar. Probably not him.


How much interest did Godelina take in the affairs of the household? Did she leave it to Miles and Winston or did she manage the two of them when Oswin was away or inattentive?


Leon should maybe be pressed a little harder. Maybe justify it (at least to the Earl) by saying it's not right to speak ill of someone who was just murdered, but we want to get him to go into what he has against Miles. His alibi puts him in position to poison the wine, too, which is more than we can say about anyone else yet. (Edit: after the post below, I agree it'd be better to try to good-cop him than to press him)




The earl could have someone of lesser station killed on some trumped up charge if he wanted, but he wouldn't have to hide it. Since the gods do intervene in everyday life, I would think trial-by-ordeal is actually pretty common. "We're going to keep piling rocks on him until he's crushed. If he's innocent, Kord will give him the strength to push them off."


Lady Godelina doesn't take too much interest in day-to-day things, Winston handled that and Miles handled the money for the most part. The earl told her the wedding plans were nearly finalized and that Miles was going to write a letter with the last of the arrangements. She was involved in the wedding plans to a degree, and she hired the seamstresses and tailors to make clothing for the wedding party. While the earl was away everything was delivered except for the earl's clothing. There needed to be a final measurement check for alterations.


Leon says that Miles always treated him like an idiot, but that [like Fredo] he is smart and he can handle things. He didn't like Miles but they didn't have much interaction. He also saw that Miles was very nasty to Winston and that wasn't nice.

jayem
2017-03-11, 01:55 PM
If you search Osgood, the son, and/or his room you find no bloody knife. However he does have a fresh cut on the heel of his right hand. Osgood has a shirt and vest thrown on the floor of his room. They've got red stains on them, probably wine not blood. The vest has a little bit of blood on it.


I just assumed intellectual curiosity as their motivation for solving the mystery, but I think you're right and I'll have to have to think of something which gives them a more personal connection. I do have photos of the people I'm going to give them, but I'll add something else.

How long do you have left with just the Earl, you could possibly start the story and have some characterization before they even arrive? Also perhaps if there were some vague future promises of what the people would do, (my Butler has a bottle of really revitalising stuff that you can take, my Steward will look into...), so the players have metaphorically had something stolen from them by the act of killing Miles.

Mars Ultor
2017-03-11, 02:24 PM
Someone in the house is secretly a druid, the Jester, the Lady, Doris or all of them. They flew to the balcony in bird form, and entered that way, causing the puddle. They could have left the same way, but it has been stressed that the overhang prevents rain from coming in from outside, so the puddle could only be caused by someone already wet standing there.

Form of an eagle! Shape of a puddle of water! No, it was neither a druid nor the Wonder Twins.



Does the wine always stay in the room, or does someone deliver it? Since this is the earl's study, ask him if he knows whether the poisoned amphora is one that has been in the study, had he or Miles opened it on a prior night?

Ask Winston who might go into the earl's study besides the earl and Miles. Does someone clean it?

Also, since we've identified the poison, do we know how long it takes to work? Instantaneous, or some hours?

Did anyone go into the study or see Miles alive at any point during the night, after he left the library, to better establish a time line? Doris?

Who else was in the library with the party, besides the earl, Miles, and the son?

The jumpy jester needs to be convinced or coerced to spill the beans about what he's nervous about and holding back.

Don't druids have a secret language?

There are always a few amphorae of wine in the cabinet. They’re replaced by Doris, or sometimes Miles. It’s just ordinary table wine. Miles or the earl usually mix in a little water. If it was an open jug—which it appears to have been--anyone could have had access to it. For the most part no one comes in the study for any length of time other than Miles, Earl Oswin, or Doris, to tidy up.

The poison would have worked very quickly, almost instantly.

No one saw Miles after he left the party and went upstairs. It’s impossible to tell how long he’d been dead when you found him. The window was open and the fire was out so the body was pretty cold already.

The earl and Miles are the only ones to use that room and drink that wine regularly.

No one saw where the son went. The party, the earl, Miles, and the son, Osgood, were in the downstairs library. The whereabouts of the others in that time are unknown. It appeared as if Lady Godelina, the daughter, and Aunt Evelyn were walking and talking together after dinner. No one saw Leon, Doris and Winston were most likely cleaning up and/or arranging for your rooms to be prepared.

Leon was mildly interviewed in a post prior to this one. He said he and Miles didn’t get along and Miles was mean to Winston. I’ll assume if he’s pressured a little bit in that same interview he confesses that he was upset by the weather and he knows the dogs get upset as well. He snuck outside to sleep with the dogs in the kennel. He saw Aunt Evelyn walking around downstairs with a knife when he went to leave he house. He hid when he heard someone in the kitchen, and she came out carrying a knife and then went upstairs.

Druids do have a secret language that they don’t share with others. No one seems to react suspiciously if you slip in a phrase or two. They just say they misheard you or you said something they didn’t understand.

Mars Ultor
2017-03-11, 02:31 PM
God lord this is a tangled mess, but i can follow it well enough. I would recommend that you recommend to your players to take notes during this, cuz that will be very helpful.

I'm going to give them printed photos of the named NPCs. I'm giving them a labeled map of the manor, and I'm giving them sheets where they can track evidence, the suspects, and what they believe to be the sequence of events.

I may provide them with the aforementioned family tree information, but I'm getting the sense I should alter that part a little and just stress a little more another clue that has been provided. I've tried to provide several clues so if one or two are missed something else will lead them there instead.

Mars Ultor
2017-03-11, 02:46 PM
And anything on notes, seem a good idea, I don't know if you could have some on cards ready, or otherwise. Perhaps you could give them to the 'intelligent character', it would give them a head start on deductions.

We still don't know anything about the ladies alleged post dinner, pre bed movements, we know they left the room before us.
Or a number of the male characters (Leon, Butler) (which is when I'd expect something to have happened).
Although we do know of some nocturnal movements..

We need to find why Evelyn went downstairs, and who the bloke was (talking to Oslina? Or were there three wandering ladies?)
Do the Earl&Lady sleep together?


I mentioned in another post I will be providing the players with sheets to track things and also have photos of the NPCs. I will consider "hint" cards, maybe something like "What did Oslina do after dinner?" or "Is there a room you haven't searched?"

The earl and lady do share a bedroom as far as you know.

Aunt Evelyn had said she was downstairs because she sleepwalks. If you actually interrogate her she eventually confesses that she was down in the kitchen getting food--she has never before in her entire life gone to the kitchen when it wasn't mealtime, but she was unnaturally hungry this one, solitary time.

She took some food and was going to prepare something, but she thought she heard a noise in the cellar. She was going to go to the cellar door but then she heard a noise behind her and picked up a kitchen knife. She stepped out of the room and didn't see anyone, but was spooked and took the knife and food with her upstairs. She thought she saw someone near the stairs and the shadow frightened her. She ran up to her room, but had mostly lost her appetite at that point. When Evelyn heard the scream in the morning she picked up the knife, but realized that would make her look bad, so she hid it under her mattress.

She says she didn't kill Miles, but he could be a vile man and she's sure he had bad breeding. Bad breeding tells.

Mars Ultor
2017-03-11, 02:56 PM
In this case, I think you're wrong. Other than skills needed to get certain information, this sort of game is all about the players. If the "characters" solve it (or don't because they don't have the right skills/stats), there is no point to the exercise at all. It's a murder mystery, there's no point in role-playing stupid: the players need to do this 100%.

I'm mainly is this camp. I'm going to let the characters use their skills to gather information--I don't hold them to the class skills in the PHB. It makes no sense to me that a Fighter character who is playing a knight wouldn't have learned Knowledge Nobility and Royalty. Rangers not having Knowledge Local seems insane to me, and who says a Cleric can't have started going to church as a child, was part of the choir (Perform skill), and then had a religious calling? They have a mix of skills.

After that, they've got to use their heads. I'll just have to watch for OOC knowledge creeping in.

Mars Ultor
2017-03-11, 03:36 PM
A lot of things I wanted to mention have already been said by others, so I'm letf with just small bits:

1a even so, just to make sure - I check the end of the rope. Does it look like it could have snapped?

2 Sadly, your explanations of the family trees don't help me . . .

3 Check the other servants and how long they have worked for the family - if it is indeed some plot by one of the neighbours, than the killer might well be one of the unnamed extras that showed up during the supper. (people aren't marked as 'unnamed extras' in real life, so the characters wouldn't know if they are a part of the story.)

4 The knife could have come from the kitchen, but I'd guess it's one of those in the trophy room. Let's see what we can find.

5 Finally, if we can identify the herbs that went into the poison, we could see if we can find any more of it within the manor - at level 3 the party druid will have access to scent, one way or another.

1a The rope, upon further investigation, looks to be something like thick clothesline. The ends look cut, not torn or snapped.

2 I've learned already from this board that the family tree introduces a lot of issues, so I'm going to eliminate it; I'll have to find another hobby for the earl's father. There are other clues that were already present and have now been introduced as the investigations on this page have advanced, which should give the same information in a much clearer way.

2 continued, If you ask the earl about inheritances, he says his death wouldn't have much benefitted anyone except the son, Osgood, and even then because of his behavior the earl and the king have arranged that a royally appointed advisor, who was neither Miles nor the wife, would be given the purse and veto power over the son's actions until he proved himself sober and responsible. The eldest daughter's in-laws live a week or so away and would not have stood to inherit anything. Neither would the new in-laws. His wife would be given some money and objects and could choose to live with any of the children. She could not have been evicted from the manor, but the son would inherit the rights to take over her current (master) bedroom; she would have to move to another room.

3 I'm trying to limit the number of NPCs so there aren't twenty additional servants and the mystery becomes impossible to solve. "Where did the girl with the feather duster go after dinner? What time did the assistant milkmaid enter the kitchen? Was it the second footman or the valet who looked more suspicious?" I'm just going to make clear to the party that if the person doesn't have a name they don't have relevant information. It's not realistic, but this isn't Downtown Abbey either.

4 As previously mentioned, during the initial search of the crime scene you discovered that a ceremonial knife, which had been mounted on the wall, was missing. The only thing you know about it is that it was single-edge. It has not been found.

5 Also previously mentioned, during a search outdoors they found a small garden which had some of the substances used in the poison. The druids feel the other could be gathered from the local landscape. It's unknown if there are any of the ingredient in the house since as of yet, there has not been an organized search of the manor, only the crime scene, the butler's room, and the son's room.

Mars Ultor
2017-03-11, 03:55 PM
How long do you have left with just the Earl, you could possibly start the story and have some characterization before they even arrive? Also perhaps if there were some vague future promises of what the people would do, (my Butler has a bottle of really revitalising stuff that you can take, my Steward will look into...), so the players have metaphorically had something stolen from them by the act of killing Miles.

Jayem, I had to revise the post detailing the information gained from searching the son's room, I omitted an important clue: there was a trace of poison found on the sole of one of his shoes.

I could have the earl mention things somewhat on the ride to the house--he has to talk about the wedding, but maybe little mini-bios of the other NPCs.

"My daughter has the same reddish hair as her mother, and resembles her instead of me, thank the gods."

"Miles, my steward is sometimes difficult, but he's a hard worker and keeps everyone on their toes. He knows all about the games, he's a big fan." (One of the player characters has as his background that he was a competitor in Highland Games and similar events. I ran an all-games adventure that the players loved.)

"Doris, the maid, is a gossip, ask her about that young druid apprentice we had here when the kids were younger, Gwen or something, Doris loves to talk."


Is stuff like that helpful at all? I don't think I could sit through a dinner playing eight different NPCs.

Beleriphon
2017-03-11, 04:56 PM
Is stuff like that helpful at all? I don't think I could sit through a dinner playing eight different NPCs.

Immensely. The Earl should be an info dump character about his own household and setup the expectations for each NPC. They don't have to be 100% accurate, but they should be generally reliable. Then each interrogation can have your fun monologues.

Mendicant
2017-03-11, 08:37 PM
Turning this over in my head, I feel like we've eliminated Aunt Evelyn, the Butler, and the Earl. I'm also skeptical that Doris did it.

I'm having a hard time picking up a clear motive. My feeling at this point is that the lady of the house does *not* want her daughter sent to marry Burton, and that that is at the core of this, and that she put her idiot son up to it. The poison was simple and easily known to him via his tutor, he's sketchy, and there's residue. Miles is a relative of the prospective in-laws, was handling the marriage arrangements, and might have been the one to suggest the match in the first place. Getting rid of him might conceivably have given the lady breathing room to squash the marriage. Alternatively, poor unloved Miles is just collateral damage.

There are a lot of well-done dead-ends here, where a player can feel clever for spotting a red herring in several different ways. If there are solid leads pointing towards a perpetrator though, I've missed them.

Toss the house for the "murder weapon," but I'd be surprised if it hasn't been planted on somebody. It might be a good time to drop that we know about the poisoning to Osgood, see if he cracks.

Crazy idea that is probably bad: toss the house, if the dagger is found, surreptitiously plant it on the daughter and then "discover" it. Accuse her, use bluff and intimidate in combination with the reveal about the poison to create a magnificent and damning j'accuse oration. "YOU didn't want to go to Burton! YOU knew about poisonous local berries! YOU killed poor Miles to stop the wedding!" Maybe rope the Earl into the bluff before hand so he can act ready to hand her over to justice. See if you squeeze a blurted-out confession that way. (This only works if protecting the daughter was indeed the goal like I suspect.)

jayem
2017-03-12, 04:39 AM
Miles was:
Blackmailing Winston (allegedly)
Arranging marriage of Daughter
to the family that now own the bandits that harressed the Lady &Jester

I agree with the Osgood questioning (both the wine and poison), (unless we can get him to commit to something we know is an untruth first).

Mars Ultor
2017-03-12, 11:57 AM
There are a lot of well-done dead-ends here, where a player can feel clever for spotting a red herring in several different ways. If there are solid leads pointing towards a perpetrator though, I've missed them.

Toss the house for the "murder weapon," but I'd be surprised if it hasn't been planted on somebody. It might be a good time to drop that we know about the poisoning to Osgood, see if he cracks.


It surprises me that this wasn't done sooner. Was there something I did to discourage a search of the house? Were you under the impression it was off-limits or that it had already been done? Had it just not occurred to people?

WINSTON'S, the butler, room has been searched. In it was found his old, double-edged dagger (not the murder weapon), some gold, the missing account pages. Ordinary items.


THE SON, Osgood, his room has been searched. You found wine-stained clothing, a vest with a little blood, and a bit of poison on the sole of his shoe. Ordinary personal items and his new suit are also inside. He’s got a belt buckle with the earl’s symbol on it.


DORIS, the maid, her room had not been searched. Inside you find the expected personal items, a piece of parchment with some herbal “recipes” scrawled on it, a mortar and pestle, a small basket with some herbs/plants/berries. They are probably not the source of the poison, but could be the basis of her potpourri perfume.


LEON, the jester, his room has a wet and muddy cloak in the corner, it is filthy, wrinkled, and balled up. Muddy boots, and clothing which is wet and smells like wet dogs. Ordinary personal items, a small harp, and his new suit are also inside.


THE EARL & LADY'S ROOM, has a large four-post canopy bed. Thrown on top of the canopy is a wet dress that resembles what the lady wore yesterday. The dress is still wet and the canopy fabric has a water stain on it. There looks to be a small, dark red stain on the bottom hem of the dress. Possibly poison or wine, it’s too washed out to tell.

Ordinary personal items and two new dresses are also inside. There is also a padlocked safe, which you can unlock, which has some coins from different realms separated into small bags, some hack-silver, a few miscellaneous gems in a pouch, and a nicely made box with various women’s jewelry and a few rings a man might wear. A fine medallion with a gold chain is also inside the safe, it has a symbol of the earl: a standing gold lion wearing green gloves. You’ve seen him wear a studier version while traveling. There are two small, wide-mouthed jugs; the druids say one contains an aloe vera based mixture, the other has honey mixed with something.


THE DAUGHTER, Oslina's room, has a large dowry chest, mostly empty at this point. A small jewelry box, a rack of new dresses, ordinary personal items, and a bouquet of flowers.


AUNT EVELYN'S room has some food wrapped up in cloth on her window sill, a single-edged kitchen knife under her pillow, and ordinary items. She’s also got a new dress hanging up and a ridiculous hat.


MILES room has an ordinary chest inside with personal items, but there’s a smaller chest hidden inside that one. The smaller chest, when unlocked, has a surprising amount of gold. Inside his armoire is ordinary clothing, and a new suit with a wide belt. The buckle has the symbol of the Roboli Clan on it, a red bull.


THE BALCONY. If you go out on the balcony again, the small overhang has a dagger tossed on top. This weapon matches the description of the missing ceremonial knife and seems as if it might be the “murder weapon.” There is no blood on the blade, it’s been out in the rain for a while.


THE CELLAR consists of two medium sized rooms and one smaller room. At the bottom of the stairs is a small splotch of dark red on the stone floor. The druids determine that it’s the poison.

One medium room is a root cellar and has sacks and vessels with food items. Several barrels are also in the room. Some vegetables and sausages are hanging from hooks in the ceiling.

The other medium room is the wine cellar and has many amphorae of wine and other drinks, several barrels and kegs of different sizes, and few small glass bottles. On the floor near an opened jug of wine are shards of glass from a broken bottle. There are a few drops of blood on the glass and the floor.

The small room has a butcher-block table, several simple knives, rusty gardening shears, a few vases of various types, a bucket with some flower stems, leaves, and various plant detritus. A basket with a few plants materials, including berries and leaves. A finely made, but well-used, gardening box. The box contains small knives and cutters, some small glass and clay containers, and a pair of worn gloves. It is likely that the poison was concocted from the things now discarded in the bucket, and one or two things from the vials in the box.


THE HOUSE IN GENERAL has what you expect to find, but there is a coil of bed-rope missing (before springs, old beds were strung with rope as a mattress support—that’s the origin of “sleep tight”) from a storage room in the servant’s quarters. The similar remaining rope matches the kind used on the grappling hook in the study.

Mars Ultor
2017-03-12, 12:10 PM
Miles was:
Blackmailing Winston (allegedly)
Arranging marriage of Daughter
to the family that now own the bandits that harressed the Lady &Jester

I agree with the Osgood questioning (both the wine and poison), (unless we can get him to commit to something we know is an untruth first).

Osgood says that he went down to the wine cellar after dinner, and drunk some wine. After a while he tried to stand up, but fell over, breaking something accidentally and cutting his hand; he then passed out. Sometime during the night his sister woke him up and helped him to his feet.

They went up the stairs and waited by the cellar door because they heard someone in the kitchen. Oslina, the sister, opened the door a crack and saw Aunt Evelyn exiting the kitchen with a knife. They waited a moment--giving her time to get upstairs--but then heard someone else open the back door and slip outside. They couldn't see who it was.

If you question the daughter, Oslina about this, she confirms her brother's story, and adds that he has been getting drunk and passing out more often lately and she often has to drag him upstairs to bed. She's concerned about what her father will do when she moves away and Osgood is left on his own. She asks that you not reveal her brother's behavior to her parents.

Mars Ultor
2017-03-12, 04:43 PM
With the new information gained from the search of the house, I'm going to assume the next step would be to confront the suspects with the evidence. Does anyone have a different line of reasoning, or is this the most probable course of action?


WINSTON has already confessed to have been skimming money and intending to threaten the murdered steward. No additional evidence expands or contradicts his admission.


THE SON has given his explanation for the blood on his clothing and his unaccounted movements. His sister backs up his alibi. There was poison on his clothing, spilled poison on the floor in the cellar, and the materials to make poison in a room adjacent to where he says he was sleeping off an excess of wine. The sister admits to being in the same area. Are there any specific questions or accusations for either of them?


DORIS has up until now not been regarded as a likely suspect, but she had materials in her room that could have contributed to making a poison, and she has admitted to knowing something about herbs and plants. The bed-rope/grappling rope was also from an area where she had both proximity and access.


LEON'S clothing seems to verify his story that he slept in the kennels and then concealed his absence, a habit previously confirmed by the earl. There are no witnesses to his actions or whereabouts.


THE EARL, some may remember, said his only recollection from the previous night was a leaking roof. The dripping from the dress on top of the bed may be the source of the "rain" water. There is otherwise no evidence of any kind related to the earl.


THE LADY explains that she misled you earlier to protect Leon. She went to check on Leon during the night and found that he was not in his room. She figured he might have gone to the kennels and went to convince him to come back. After stepping outside she thought the weather too rough and returned to the safety of the house. She intended to hang up her dress on the bedpost, but it was dark and she accidentally threw it on the canopy. She says she hadn't recollected it due to the shock of a murder and possible killer in the house.


THE DAUGHTER confirmed the brother's alibi, and has implicated Aunt Evelyn. She has some knowledge of herbs and plants, has fresh flowers in her room, presumably prepared in the cellar where trimmed flower stems were found, and admits to being in the cellar. She insists she was just helping her drunken brother to bed.


AUNT EVELYN has admitted that she went down at night to get food--insisting just that one time--and was frightened by something. She took the knife and hid it in her room as protection. The knife under her pillow is most likely not the knife used to stab Miles' corpse.


MILES's room contained a surprising amount of gold and a belt buckle tying him to the clan that killed the lady's family. It was during the course of this attack that the lady suffered the burns she conceals and Miles PTSD.

jayem
2017-03-12, 05:08 PM
It surprises me that this wasn't done sooner. Was there something I did to discourage a search of the house? Were you under the impression it was off-limits or that it had already been done? Had it just not occurred to people?

Speaking for me, it was more the rhythm of PbyPost. And that a post of 'we search everywhere' seemed wrong, or not reflecting on what we had (I think that will be different when it's live)*.

*suggestion regarding Players/Characters, Earls safe could be picked, (if for some reason you didn't just ask him to show you). Mile's chest similarly could be an opportunity for cracking or violence.
Similarly the various substances if someone else discovers, you can delay identification till the druid has a chance to have a look.
Not sure if there's any other things you can do.


Speaking of which, I want to see what the Ladies honey based mixture does to an ant (or similar). And similarly any druid stuff that can be done with the aunts pot (I'm guessing that the comments about it are accurate, but.)

Mendicant
2017-03-12, 06:30 PM
On not searching the house: it just didn't seem appropriate to the context. The PCs aren't law enforcement, to my knowledge. They're just house guests. Unless the Earl empowers them more explicitly it seems weird that they would just take over and start searching and interrogating people.

Tonally, this has a very Agatha Christie vibe to it. Tossing the house is simply not done.

Mars Ultor
2017-03-12, 06:45 PM
On not searching the house: it just didn't seem appropriate to the context. The PCs aren't law enforcement, to my knowledge. They're just house guests. Unless the Earl empowers them more explicitly it seems weird that they would just take over and start searching and interrogating people.

Tonally, this has a very Agatha Christie vibe to it. Tossing the house is simply not done.


I was definitely inspired by Agatha Christie, I'll have to have the earl tell them they have the run of the place. "Do what you must to find the killer. Search everywhere, ask everyone."

Mars Ultor
2017-03-12, 06:55 PM
Speaking for me, it was more the rhythm of PbyPost. And that a post of 'we search everywhere' seemed wrong, or not reflecting on what we had (I think that will be different when it's live)*.

*suggestion regarding Players/Characters, Earls safe could be picked, (if for some reason you didn't just ask him to show you). Mile's chest similarly could be an opportunity for cracking or violence.
Similarly the various substances if someone else discovers, you can delay identification till the druid has a chance to have a look.
Not sure if there's any other things you can do.


Speaking of which, I want to see what the Ladies honey based mixture does to an ant (or similar). And similarly any druid stuff that can be done with the aunts pot (I'm guessing that the comments about it are accurate, but.)


I've seen that stuff gets lost, it's not the best format. I'm assuming my party would open the safes without permission that's why I detailed the contents.

The lady's honey and aloe pots are just moisturizers for her burns, she's sensitive about them. They're intended for detail, not red herrings. Too much?

Is there enough evidence yet to put together a theory or is more investigation needed? All the physical evidence that I planned is out there and everyone has given their alibis. Short of an interrogation or a direct accusation I'm not sure what's left. Unless you have specific questions about people or evidence which I could provide.

Do you feel more evidence is needed? I know the story, that's the problem. I don't know if there's enough for someone else to figure it out.

Gray Mage
2017-03-12, 07:59 PM
My guess so far would be a combination of the Mother and/or Jester killing him as revenge for the raiding event from the past plus not wanting the girl to marry into the perpetrators (maybe the mother found that out when she was organizing the lineage papers). The poison has not yet been found, implicating a bit the heir as some was found on his shoe, but on a meta-gaming POV the attack that scarred both of them (physically and mentally) is too big to be a red hering.

By the way, has the cellar been investigated yet? I forget.

Mendicant
2017-03-12, 08:22 PM
Where's the "murder" weapon? That's the piece of evidence that would drive this towards a conclusion in my opinion. You say all the physical evidence is out, which makes me assume it isn't getting found. New theory: the lady poisoned Miles and then stabbed him later; she tossed the weapon down from the balcony where Leon got it and hid it.

LokiRagnarok
2017-03-13, 01:21 AM
Take an additional knife A from the kitchen. Put it together with the presumed murder weapon B (from the balcony) and the other one C (from the pillow of the aunt).
Ask daughter to identify which of the three knives the aunt was carrying in the night.

Reasoning:
The aunts claim is weakly supported by the fact that she has a knife under her pillow. However, if she planned the stabbing in cold blood, she might have prepared knife C in advance just to support such a claim.

If daughter identifies C as the knife, the aunt's story is presumably true and she has an alibi.
If daughter insists the aunt carried B, then both aunt and daughter become suspicious, the aunt for possibly perpetrating the twist I mentioned, the daughter for possibly trying to implicate the aunt.
If daughter identifies A as the knife, or is not sure, the experiment has failed.

(Note: I read a lot of mystery novels as a child, so I am likely overthinking this. Also, +1 to the "tossing the house did not seem appropriate").

Mars Ultor
2017-03-13, 05:36 AM
By the way, has the cellar been investigated yet? I forget.

Yes, here's the description of the search from a few posts earlier.

THE CELLAR consists of two medium sized rooms and one smaller room. At the bottom of the stairs is a small splotch of dark red on the stone floor. The druids determine that it’s the poison.

One medium room is a root cellar and has sacks and vessels with food items. Several barrels are also in the room. Some vegetables and sausages are hanging from hooks in the ceiling.

The other medium room is the wine cellar and has many amphorae of wine and other drinks, several barrels and kegs of different sizes, and few small glass bottles. On the floor near an opened jug of wine are shards of glass from a broken bottle. There are a few drops of blood on the glass and the floor.

The small room has a butcher-block table, several simple knives, rusty gardening shears, a few vases of various types, a bucket with some flower stems, leaves, and various plant detritus. A basket with a few plants materials, including berries and leaves. A finely made, but well-used, gardening box. The box contains small knives and cutters, some small glass and clay containers, and a pair of worn gloves. It is likely that the poison was concocted from the things now discarded in the bucket, and one or two things from the vials in the box.

Mars Ultor
2017-03-13, 05:40 AM
Where's the "murder" weapon? That's the piece of evidence that would drive this towards a conclusion in my opinion. You say all the physical evidence is out, which makes me assume it isn't getting found. New theory: the lady poisoned Miles and then stabbed him later; she tossed the weapon down from the balcony where Leon got it and hid it.


The poison was used to kill the steward, the means for making the poison was found in the cellar.

During the thorough search of the house, the knife used to "kill" the steward was found on the "roof" of the balcony attached to the study.

Or do you mean that the killer should actually have the poison in their possession, something which ties the killer to the poison?

Mars Ultor
2017-03-13, 05:46 AM
Take an additional knife A from the kitchen. Put it together with the presumed murder weapon B (from the balcony) and the other one C (from the pillow of the aunt).
Ask daughter to identify which of the three knives the aunt was carrying in the night.



The Aunt was not the secondary "killer." While I like the idea of the knife comparison test, I'm wondering if I'm introducing more complexity into the proceedings. The most likely answer, that the daughter and/or Leon can't identify knife C or possibly A--dark house, perhaps only a candle burning here or there on sconces--doesn't really advance the story.

Mars Ultor
2017-03-13, 10:42 AM
(Note: I read a lot of mystery novels as a child, so I am likely overthinking this. Also, +1 to the "tossing the house did not seem appropriate").

Would there be a way to solve this mystery without searching the house? What would be the alternatives?

I sort of remember someone's room being searched during Ten Little Indians/And Then There Were None, but I also recall he was the guy with the gun. I don't know if they looked elsewhere. They looked in the basement too or something, don't they? Or some shed or something?

Beneath
2017-03-13, 01:28 PM
If all the evidence you planned is out, now, every clue that you deliberately placed in ppl's conversations and all the physical evidence, then there isn't any solid evidence saying someone definitely did it.

Like, sure, there's poison on Osgood's shoe, but does that mean he made the poison or stepped in a spill someone else made? We still don't have a solid motive (circumstantial evidence around banditry but that's all)

At this point, I haven't seen any evidence that would make me comfortable accusing someone, just bringing people under suspicion (Oslina, Osgood, and Godelina are all still suspects, but that's not enough to prove any or all of them did it. Like we need evidence strong and clear enough that even though we've only known the earl for a few weeks at best we can convince him that his wife or child murdered his steward)

Mendicant
2017-03-13, 03:03 PM
During the thorough search of the house, the knife used to "kill" the steward was found on the "roof" of the balcony attached to the study.

Or do you mean that the killer should actually have the poison in their possession, something which ties the killer to the poison?

No I just missed the knife being discovered.

I think it was the lady. She was drenched, she had motive, and everybody else's alibi sounds stronger to me. She was the only person besides the Earl pointing the finger at foreign assassins, which seems fitting if she was the one who planted the phony trail. None of this is particularly conclusive.

I'd try to trick a confession out of her somehow, or catch her in a lie. Maybe plant the dagger in the kennels and blame Leon, or go with the earlier angle and frame her daughter.

Mars Ultor
2017-03-13, 05:18 PM
None of this is particularly conclusive.

The prior poster had a similar comment. Regardless of the actual killer, what would make you confident that you had the right person and could publicly accuse them?

Mars Ultor
2017-03-13, 05:20 PM
Like we need evidence strong and clear enough that even though we've only known the earl for a few weeks at best we can convince him that his wife or child murdered his steward)

What would you need? What sort of evidence would make you comfortable that you definitely had the right person?

Mordar
2017-03-13, 06:55 PM
What would you need? What sort of evidence would make you comfortable that you definitely had the right person?

Well, I suppose we would need solid answers to the following:


Motive: Why did the person want the steward dead?
Means: Did the person have the ability to create and deliver the poison?
Opportunity: Did the person have the opportunity to do so without being detected?
Disproven Alibi: What proves that the alibi provided is insufficient/untrue?


Should we start a matrix?

Mendicant
2017-03-13, 09:18 PM
An alibi that includes a distinctly and provably false element would help.

I think motive is established at this point: Miles was part of the clan that scarred the lady and Leon mentally and physically. Discovering this with the lineages, and his facilitation of her daughter's marriage into the family that runs that clan combined to trigger a resort to murder. I don't know if Leon was involved or not at this point probably not. He's jittery and delicate so I don't think he hatched a cold-blooded plan to murder someone.

A clue that establishes the killer at the scene in a suspicious way--perhaps a nail or tack got a shred of clothing from whoever stashed the knife. Maybe a very close examination of the murderer's clothes from the night of reveals slate or some other roofing material on their right sleeve.

(The soaked dress sort of works here, but she has an explanation for it that establishes reasonable doubt.)

Maybe the fighter or healer can tell that the stabbing was done by someone left-handed, and the only left-handed people in the house are the killer and the butler or some other npc who it's clear didn't do it. If the killer is the lady, like I think, maybe she doesn't generally use her left hand in public, even though it's dominant, because the scarring is especially bad there, but it's possible to establish with a trick or sharp eyes that she is left handed. ETA: ooh--the lineages could work here as one place to establish this. Handedness could be established with an Int or spot or search or forgery/linguistics check.

LokiRagnarok
2017-03-14, 03:22 AM
To sum this up, I think at this point you don't need a way to establish who could have done it - you need a way to establish who couldn't.

I feel that this would be easier if there were one or two characters less, but that's just me.

Overall, I think you have a good mystery here - keep up the work!

Mars Ultor
2017-03-14, 11:18 AM
In order to propose alternatives, I'm going to reveal the killer and manner of the crime.

The lady found out that Miles was part of the group that killed her relatives when the steward's suit and belt buckle were delivered--she recognized the symbol of the bull. She then concocted the poison in the cellar, accidentally spilled a little on the floor, and then poured it into a wine jug which she brought upstairs. She made sure the earl went directly to bed so he wouldn't drink the wine.

During the night she went to make sure Miles was dead, but heard Winston coming in. She hid on the balcony, getting soaked from the rain, saw Winston's dagger, and decided to fake a crime scene. When Winston returned to his room, she turned over furniture (quietly) and then stabbed the corpse and faked the escape.

Now I realize a plot hole: How did the lady get the rope from the servant area? Even though it's nearby, she'd have to have stripped down, then run through the hall to get the rope without leaving a trail of water.

The lady returns to her room, throws the wet dress on top of the bed, it eventually soaks through the canopy, the earl thinks it's raining.

Aunt Evelyn was sneaking food in the kitchen when she heard the drunken son and his sister coming up the cellar stairs, then she heard Leon coming down. Frightened, she took the knife and the food and went to her room. The kids waited until the coast was clear, then they heard, but didn't see, when Leon snuck out the back door to go to the kennel. They waited a while longer, then returned to their rooms.

When morning came Doris discovered the body.

Mars Ultor
2017-03-14, 12:58 PM
A clue that establishes the killer at the scene in a suspicious way--perhaps a nail or tack got a shred of clothing from whoever stashed the knife. Maybe a very close examination of the murderer's clothes from the night of reveals slate or some other roofing material on their right sleeve.

I've provided the solution to the mystery in the prior post, so be aware I'm going to discuss it openly here.



Here's the revised mystery. I'll incorporate the earl giving the two sentence biographies on the way to his manor. He'll make mention of his daughter's wedding and that he's supposed to get measured for a suit--his wife made everyone get new clothes for the wedding.

The stuff with Doris, the son and daughter, and Leon will remain the same.

What if the lady poisons the wine, but Miles doesn't drink it at first? He's been drinking all night in the library with the earl and the party. He goes to the upstairs study to work a little before bed, but he falls asleep in the chair.

Lady Godelina comes in to make sure he's dead from the poison. The ewer of wine and a filled goblet are on the desk, but she discovers he's still alive. He awakes and is surprised to see the lady hovering over him. He grabs her wrist and she panics and hits him with the ewer of wine, splashing wine on her clothing. He's stunned, but not dead. The lady pulls away--leaving a bit of lace cuff in Miles hand. She hears Winston coming in and runs outside, hiding on the balcony, getting soaked.

The butler comes in the room and sees Miles slumped over the desk with wine everywhere. He goes to investigate and Miles come to, thinking Winston had hit him. They begin to argue, Miles takes a drink of the poisoned wine, then lurches, knocks over a chair and the stuff on the desk and goes for the butler. Winston stabs Miles with his dagger, killing him. He knows there is a chest in the room with stuff--I had mentioned the room was filled with trophies and other stuff--finds a grappling hook and rope, throws the rope out the window. He grabs the journal and runs back to his room.

The lady comes in, completely wet, strips down and wrings out her dress, soaking the carpet. Holding her dress she runs out of the room, accidentally leaving a bloody footprint in the room. She gets to her room and throws the dress on the bed's canopy.

In the morning, Doris finds the murder scene, screams, and everyone runs over. The earl will explicitly tell the party that they can interrogate everyone and search the house. That was a big sticking point--permission to go everywhere.

When the party investigates the crime scene they'll find the poison wine, the lace in Miles hand, the bloody footprint, and some indication Miles was hit with the ewer--perhaps it's dented or maybe Miles has a broken nose? They also find the red-herring rope and hook.

Miles drank the poisoned wine, then was stabbed. The party will either focus on the fake crime scene--I think everyone determined the grappling hook was phony after investigating it at first. Or, they'll focus on the women in the house--because of the footprint and the lace. They'll try to find out who made the poison and eventually they'll accuse the lady--her footprint matches, her dress has the missing lace. (Instead of the cut on the son's hand from the broken bottle, what if the daughter stepped on the broken glass and has a cut on her foot? Her bloody slipper is investigated but doesn't match the footprint?)

When they search Miles' room they'll find the bull insignia--that provides the motive for the earl's wife, and they'll find the bag of gold with a list of payments. It's a record of the money extorted from Winston. Maybe I'll even give the party a slip of paper with numbers on it so they think it's some sort of code.

When the lady is confronted she'll insist it was actually Winston. Winston will deny it, but the lady will accuse him of killing Miles and taking the journal.

In Winston's room they'll find the dagger's sheath and the journal--with a bit of wine and poison splattered on it. He's the killer and will tell everyone Miles was extorting money from him.

How does this sound to everyone? The druids will determine the poison would have made Miles sick, but probably not have killed him--it wasn't skillfully made. There's an eyewitness to the murder, but she's reluctant to say anything because she intended to kill the victim. The lady doesn't know her poison wouldn't have worked. There's plenty of real physical evidence in the form of the lace and footprint, but they won't lead directly to the murderer. Winston has the dagger in his room, the journal, and the motive. And, best of all, the butler did it.

MintyNinja
2017-03-14, 01:33 PM
That looks pretty good, and then you have the chance for the players to muck it up by deciding arbitrarily to stand in defense of the butler and have the lady tried for the crime. But players wouldn't ever do so something so... unexpected.

In all seriousness, though, I think when the Count is showing off his study with the trophies he should have a throwaway line such as, "And that big horn ram took three days of mountain scaling to track down. Ropes, grapples, and spiked boots. But he was worth it. Look at that beautiful beast!" This way the players are dimly aware that the rope and grapple could have come from inside the house and you don't get that one player hell bent on the false trail.

Mordar
2017-03-14, 03:22 PM
Here's the revised mystery. I'll incorporate the earl giving the two sentence biographies on the way to his manor. He'll make mention of his daughter's wedding and that he's supposed to get measured for a suit--his wife made everyone get new clothes for the wedding.

I don't think you need to go for such a big revision...I think your initial plan had a great deal going for it, and I think you should keep it. You might just need to plant a few more clues.

The bit of lace is a good idea...but since Miles died from the poisoning as he should have, it could have torn free when she reached up for the dagger. The edge of the gown cuff catches on the hook of a weapon/display below and to the right of the dagger...she tugs it free and doesn't realize a small bit stayed behind on the hook. This provides both handedness (she reached up with her right hand with the dagger centered before her, suggesting a right-handed assailant. That could then match the wound details (right or left, whichever you need) as well as providing a material connection if the investigators find both the scrap and the gown. Be sure the scrap is kind of hard to find/notice though...can't be too easy.

She did go outside to check on the Jester, right? A valuable addition to her alibi from her perspective (explaining the damp clothing) but still will provide holes...why wasn't she properly bundled up? That helps set the stage for the alibi to be unwoven.

Might want to make it a bit easier (or perhaps include some redundancies) for the PCs to discover Miles' affiliation and the connection to the clan. Either that, or make it more important (?) - the marriage is a decent match, but perhaps plant a seed that it wasn't the only offer on the table of similar value and that Miles worked to make it happen. That makes for a bit more motive than the Lady simply wanting anyone affiliated with her rival clan slain. So, make it easier to discover the connection.

I like the majority of the red herrings, but remind me why the brother and sister were downstairs...and what was the scoop with the fib about the earring?

- M

jayem
2017-03-14, 05:10 PM
I don't think you need to go for such a big revision...I think your initial plan had a great deal going for it, and I think you should keep it. You might just need to plant a few more clues.

The bit of lace is a good idea...but since Miles died from the poisoning as he should have, it could have torn free when she reached up for the dagger....
Might want to make it a bit easier (or perhaps include some redundancies) for the PCs to discover Miles' affiliation and the connection to the clan. Either that, or make it more important (?) - the marriage is a decent match, but perhaps plant a seed that it wasn't the only offer on the table of similar value and that Miles worked to make it happen. That makes for a bit more motive than the Lady simply wanting anyone affiliated with her rival clan slain. So, make it easier to discover the connection.

I like the majority of the red herrings, but remind me why the brother and sister were downstairs...and what was the scoop with the fib about the earring?

- M
The scrap being only found if you know what your looking for or explicitly look at everywhere, probably would go a good way to the seal the deal clue.
I'm not sure if there's a way to make it less obvious before, and then it the clear place to look again when you (almost know) who, how and why.

Braininthejar2
2017-03-14, 06:26 PM
Putting my hypotheses and ideas here before I backtrack upthread and read the answer.

My hypothesis is - Mother poisons the victim over the whole burning thing. The kids find out and try to cover it up with a fake stabbing to protect her. The poison the son stepped into was the one in the study, not the one in the cellar.

Now, for questions I'd still try to ask:

1 We know where the rope came from. What about the hook?

2 Since we have actual hunting hounds on the premises, I'd take them to the poison maker's kit and have them sniff the inside of the gloves. Let's see who they lead us to. (If it looks like nobody used these gloves in a while, there is only one person who wears her own regularly.)

3 Why did the butler cut pieces from the notebook instead of stealing/burning the whole thing?

Mendicant
2017-03-14, 10:24 PM
I'll second the opinion that the mystery as-is is good stuff and doesn't need a radical revision. Certainly doesn't need two murderers accidentally working together.

I don't think the hook and rope need much work to explain. I think you just need to lean into them more. Have her always intend to set the scene, and do so just before Winston shows. Adding a bunch of other detail *after* a witness discovers the body seems like a bad idea to me.

Braininthejar2 has a good question about the hook, and that could be a good point to add a detail pointing to her--the shed or wherever that she got the hook from could have a piece of lace ruff or some such. You lay an extra clue that leads to her, and it's a reward for figuring out that something is up with the rope. The closet the rope came from could as well. If you're having trouble getting the players there, this could be a Schrodinger's clue that exists in both locations simultaneously until one is checked.

Also, make her more eager to pin this on outside forces. The Earl is hell for leather about Devon, and she's ok with that, plus other suggestions as well. Maybe she strongly suggests it's the work of neighbors between them and their prospective in-laws, trying to plant the notion that the match could lead to ugly unforseen repercussions (is her animosity to the match as deep as I think it is, or did I just convinvce myself this was a bigger issue than it is? I kept getting whiffs of "Sansa Stark's Series of Unfortunate Events" every time I read the bit about Burton.) Maybe have her let slip something about "all the unsavory elements Burton has absorbed" (IE the Roboli, which she leaves unsaid) and the enemies he'll bring with him. This helps develop suspicion of her and also might help ping the thread that goes to motive.

Mars Ultor
2017-03-15, 11:19 AM
Putting my hypotheses and ideas here before I backtrack upthread and read the answer.

My hypothesis is - Mother poisons the victim over the whole burning thing. The kids find out and try to cover it up with a fake stabbing to protect her. The poison the son stepped into was the one in the study, not the one in the cellar.

Now, for questions I'd still try to ask:

1 We know where the rope came from. What about the hook?

2 Since we have actual hunting hounds on the premises, I'd take them to the poison maker's kit and have them sniff the inside of the gloves. Let's see who they lead us to. (If it looks like nobody used these gloves in a while, there is only one person who wears her own regularly.)

3 Why did the butler cut pieces from the notebook instead of stealing/burning the whole thing?

Hypothesis: Partial credit, wrong on the details.

1 That's always been an issue. The grappling hook/rope is a problem all around. Either the killer needs an assistant, or they need to be running around nude in the house. I don't have an adequate solution yet. In the revised version I include a box o' adventuring gear, but then why is the rope so short?


2 I like this idea. It never occurred to me, but it's a valid way for the party to determine the owner of the box o' poison.


3 If the butler took/destroyed the entire journal, the earl would (most likely) notice it were missing. If he carefully tore out a few pages, it might not be noticed unless you were going page-by-page. It's more understandable if he took the entire book, but then Winston has got to get rid of the whole thing, instead of a few pages.

Mars Ultor
2017-03-15, 11:49 AM
I don't think you need to go for such a big revision...I think your initial plan had a great deal going for it, and I think you should keep it. You might just need to plant a few more clues.

The bit of lace is a good idea...but since Miles died from the poisoning as he should have, it could have torn free when she reached up for the dagger. . . . This provides both handedness (she reached up with her right hand with the dagger centered before her, suggesting a right-handed assailant. . . Be sure the scrap is kind of hard to find/notice though...can't be too easy.

She did go outside to check on the Jester, right?

Might want to make it a bit easier (or perhaps include some redundancies) for the PCs to discover Miles' affiliation and the connection to the clan.

I like the majority of the red herrings, but remind me why the brother and sister were downstairs...and what was the scoop with the fib about the earring?

- M

I'm rethinking the original (it's actually my third or fourth one, the original mystery had a different victim and a different killer) version. There's probably a way to make things more clear without changing everything.

It's the lace is there/not there problem. Once the party searches the room and finds the missing knife, they would find the lace. If they don't find the lace then, why would they go back and search for it?

The lady is wet from going out on the balcony. She knows Leon's habits and assumes that's what he did. The lady has a story and alibi for everything. "I know the thunder upset Leon and the dogs are frightened as well. Leon has always gone out to the kennels. When a crack of thunder woke me during the night I pulled on my dress and went out. I called for Leon but he didn't hear me shouting over the storm. I was already soaked and shivering just from standing a step outside the back door."

"What? Leon was in his room the whole night? That's unusual, it never occurred to me he wouldn't have gone to the kennels. I should have checked his room first. I feel so foolish now. I'm sure Leon or the earl will confirm that he often goes out to the kennels."

"Don't be ridiculous, I wrung out my clothing over the basin, I didn't want to track water all over the house. No one saw me? Yes, thank Pelor no one saw me. I was standing in the kitchen in my undergarments hoping that no one would see me looking like a drowned rat."


I think I have a solution for the motive issue. It's more work, but the players will make the connection themselves, they won't have to rely on the earl's exposition. I'll be posting it later.


The sister went downstairs to get her alcoholic brother from the cellar. The earring was her excuse for being downstairs when she says she saw Aunt Evelyn sneaking around with a knife, she claims she thought she lost an earring during dinner, but it turned out to be caught in her hair. The brother was passed out in the wine cellar. The sister got him, saw Evelyn with the knife, heard someone (Leon) leave the house, then put her drunk brother to bed.

Mordar
2017-03-15, 12:48 PM
It's the lace is there/not there problem. Once the party searches the room and finds the missing knife, they would find the lace. If they don't find the lace then, why would they go back and search for it?

I believe it is possible that they would have cause to come back and search in greater detail...but also, I really recommend not letting them use "whole room" searches on major rooms. Maybe a closet or a small room (like the Butler's), but not on a study or library.

Even so, you're right that it shouldn't be too obvious...maybe not lace but thread of an appropriate color, or just a tiny little section of lace. A missing knife is very obvious and would be noticed by casual observation. The thread or lace would require a much more specific search.

Additionally, if the investigators ever get to see the dress itself they might notice the damage on the dominant hand cuff and that would give them cause to look for the missing fabric. Allows another way to get to the clue, and that can be vital in these kinds of stories. (Isn't there something like "Have 3 ways to get to each important thing" rule?).


The lady is wet from going out on the balcony. She knows Leon's habits and assumes that's what he did. The lady has a story and alibi for everything. "I know the thunder upset Leon and the dogs are frightened as well. Leon has always gone out to the kennels. When a crack of thunder woke me during the night I pulled on my dress and went out. I called for Leon but he didn't hear me shouting over the storm. I was already soaked and shivering just from standing a step outside the back door."

"What? Leon was in his room the whole night? That's unusual, it never occurred to me he wouldn't have gone to the kennels. I should have checked his room first. I feel so foolish now. I'm sure Leon or the earl will confirm that he often goes out to the kennels."

"Don't be ridiculous, I wrung out my clothing over the basin, I didn't want to track water all over the house. No one saw me? Yes, thank Pelor no one saw me. I was standing in the kitchen in my undergarments hoping that no one would see me looking like a drowned rat."

All of that is good - almost perfect even - but it should unravel when someone asks why she didn't put on a proper cloak. She knew it was raining cats and dogs (couldn't resist) so if she took time to put on a dress it is more than reasonable that she would have put on proper outer-wear. I like the fact that she didn't as it is a reasonable error on her part and something that would require a touch of insight from the investigators.


The sister went downstairs to get her alcoholic brother from the cellar. The earring was her excuse for being downstairs when she says she saw Aunt Evelyn sneaking around with a knife, she claims she thought she lost an earring during dinner, but it turned out to be caught in her hair. The brother was passed out in the wine cellar. The sister got him, saw Evelyn with the knife, heard someone (Leon) leave the house, then put her drunk brother to bed.

I like all the moving parts, each with a reasonable rationale. Just keep polishing the motive and it'll be brilliant!

- M

Beleriphon
2017-03-15, 01:38 PM
I have a thought, for when you think you have it figured out exactly the way you. Can you post the whole shebang as a short story with the optimal solutions for the characters taken to solve the mystery and see if it holds up to scrutiny? That way we can see the optimal solution and find anything that doesn't quite match, it might also help you work out any final kinks.

Mendicant
2017-03-15, 07:58 PM
I have a thought, for when you think you have it figured out exactly the way you. Can you post the whole shebang as a short story with the optimal solutions for the characters taken to solve the mystery and see if it holds up to scrutiny? That way we can see the optimal solution and find anything that doesn't quite match, it might also help you work out any final kinks.

Ditto.

It'll also help me steal this and file off the serial numbers for my own players.

Mars Ultor
2017-03-16, 08:06 AM
Here’s a revised version of the original mystery. As in the first one I posted, the lady poisons Miles, then fakes the attack, but there are more clues and the motive relies on existing character knowledge, rather than just exposition.

During the day, the lady enlists Miles to give the son a riding lesson. The rain hasn’t started yet, but the weather is looking bad. While he’s out of the house, the lady mixes up the poison in a little clay container and brings it upstairs. She also takes a sealing candle from the cellar. She sees there are two amphorae of wine in the study. She takes one amphora, opens the seal and poisons the wine. Then she lights the candle and seals the top again. (There's a slight change in the color of the newly sealed wine, and if the party checks they can see the difference.) The lady puts out the candle and secures it in her belt pouch. Making sure the tampered wine is in the front, she leaves the room and throws the small poison vial in the kitchen midden. She doesn’t recall she has the candle, and it remains in her pouch. When she changes for dinner, the pouch stays in her bedroom, on a table/vanity type thing.

At night she pulls on her dress and goes to the study to make sure Miles is dead. Miles has drunk the poison, but he hasn’t quite died yet. She checks him, and although he is dying, he clutches at her, tearing a piece of lace from her cuff. Then he falls over on the floor, dead. The lady has the coil of bed-rope with her, she knows there’s a grappling hook in the room already. It’s a piece of equipment from the earl’s short-lived adventuring days. There’s a bunch of his old stuff in a chest, as well as the trophies on the wall. While getting the hook, the lady accidentally drops an earring into the equipment chest, she’s not aware of it until later. Or maybe it was when she first cased the room, because now she’s coming from bed. My wife removes her earrings before bed, I expect that’s common? It doesn’t matter, the earring is in the trunk.

The party will have an opportunity to find the matching earring, or realize an earring is missing, when they search the safe with the lady’s jewelry. If the party finds this clue right away and asks, the lady will say it could be hers, she’s been in the room with the earl several times, she can’t remember when she noticed it was lost. She’ll thank them for finding it. Two earrings, two clues. It doesn’t prove anything by itself, but it’s part of a chain.

Knowing her husband suspects those bastards from Devon, the lady gets to work making it look like an assassination. She takes down a Sax knife from the trophy wall and stabs Miles several times. But before she can prep the room to make it look like someone snuck in, she hears the door, and runs out onto the balcony.

Winston comes in with his dagger to confront Miles, but finds him dead. Winston checks the body, now he’s in a panic. He realizes he has a dagger in his hands and how bad that looks, and he opens a window and throws his dagger outside, then grabs the entire ledger. He scatters some papers around while searching for the book, knocking the wedding letter, goblet, and other things onto the floor. While checking the body, he stepped in blood and now he leaves a bloody shoeprint on the carpet while running out of the room.

The lady comes back in from the rain, poorly ties the bed-rope to the grappling hook—a Use Rope check will show that the knot is pretty iffy, and the rope wouldn’t hold the weight of a climber. Even without those checks, it’s obvious that it’s too short. She goes right over to the window Miles opened, hooks the grapple and tosses out the rope. She knocks over a few pieces of furniture, and spills the remaining wine from the amphora off the balcony into the bushes, then replaces it. She pours out the wine in the ewer into the fireplace and throws the ewer on the floor. She puts the (wet) knife back on the wall, but in the wrong position. If they specifically check the trophies they’ll find the weapon is in the wrong place and matches the weapon used to stab Miles.

The lady sees she’s dripping everywhere and wrings out her dress, soaking the carpet. Then she goes to her room and throws the dress on top of the canopy. She’s left two clues behind, the lace cuff in Miles hand (obvious), the earring in the chest (less obvious). Winston has left a shoeprint on the carpet.

Note, when the party searches the earl and lady’s room, I’m going to require a specific “I search the bed” check to find the wet, stained canopy which can lead them to the wet dress, not a general “I search the room.” They’ll also have to check the purse-pouch specifically or the entire dressing table.

It’s going to be pretty easy to find the dagger outside, and the party will find the name “Wyne” (sounds like Wine) cut into the sheath. Is that too obvious? I’m also going to require that the party actually check Winston’s shoe for blood and to see if it matches the print on the floor. I'll let them know they have to be specific, not just "I search the entire two hundred square foot plus all the objects and surfaces."


Red herrings: The daughter will continue to use the “I lost my earring” alibi, potentially implicating her. If the party asks to see her earrings she’ll show them several complete sets, none of them matching the one in the chest. The son will continue to have a red poison/wine stain on his shoe from the cellar, easy DC to detect wine, slightly more difficult to detect poison. Regardless of the check results, the party knows it’s certainly not blood. His shoeprint is larger than Miles. None of the daughter’s dresses are damaged. I wanted to have the son's shoe be bloody, but then they might not catch the spilled poison in the cellar.

All the rest of the original clues/alibis remain the same. Aunt Evelyn with the knife, Leon in the kennels, everyone hiding around the kitchen, etc.


I just recalled that one of the druids has a badger as their Animal Companion, and badgers have Scent. I’m going to make sure the druid has that listed in her animal’s stat sheet. When they find the gardening gloves in the basement the druid can have her badger track down the lady if she wishes. If they’re stuck I’ll tell them to check their sheets and see if there’s any skill, or possession, or experience they have which can be helpful. Or don’t check, DM don’t care.


I’ve figured out a way to make Miles connection to the clan a little better. I would postpone this adventure, and then the next adventure involves the party defending someone from the Roboli clan’s raids and arson. Then a brief, intervening adventure, finally they visit the earl at his house. By the time they see the buckle in Miles' room, they're already familiar with the Robolis and would recognize the bull insignia themselves.

The party can make the connection (hopefully)—the lady was burnt by someone, here's the same bull symbol, it had to be the Roboli clan. They have personal knowledge of the group and their symbol. I wonder if that introduces a moral dilemma--does the party tell the earl his wife killed Miles, a member of a group they fought? Will the paladin keep his mouth shut? They just killed a group of the Robolis, is it wrong to kill one more?


I'm happy with almost everything, but my concern now is that the bit of lace makes it a little too obvious. Let me know your thoughts, suggestions, etc.

Mordar
2017-03-16, 01:59 PM
Mars -

I think you've over-thunk some portions...and some other portions look great.

Likes

Wax - In fact, the whole "how she got the poison there" story is good;
Earring - but only because it casts doubt on the Daughter. Have it be behind the chest instead of inside, though. Something nondescript is best, so no one other than the Lady automatically recognizes it as her own;
Replacing the knife - good idea in combination with the Butler tossing his knife. I still think this is the opportunity to place the lace/thread clue, though...particularly if it is placed on a hook other than the ones used for the knife.


Dislikes
Struggle with Miles - him dying in the chair is perfect! Putting the lace in his hand would also be too quick of a pointer in my opinion;
The Butler changes - I really think you had this one nailed cold from the beginning. Keep the part where he throws the dagger, if you like, but leave the sheath on top of his cabinet and stick with the removed pages;


My only other wish is some way for the Fool to play a bigger part is either the misdirection or the actual conspiracy. Still, as a total innocent and portion of the Lady's alibi that may be enough.

It has been a lot of fun participating in this process!

- M

Mars Ultor
2017-03-16, 04:54 PM
Mars -

I think you've over-thunk some portions...and some other portions look great.

Likes

Wax - In fact, the whole "how she got the poison there" story is good;
Earring - but only because it casts doubt on the Daughter. Have it be behind the chest instead of inside, though. Something nondescript is best, so no one other than the Lady automatically recognizes it as her own;
Replacing the knife - good idea in combination with the Butler tossing his knife. I still think this is the opportunity to place the lace/thread clue, though...particularly if it is placed on a hook other than the ones used for the knife.


Dislikes
Struggle with Miles - him dying in the chair is perfect! Putting the lace in his hand would also be too quick of a pointer in my opinion;
The Butler changes - I really think you had this one nailed cold from the beginning. Keep the part where he throws the dagger, if you like, but leave the sheath on top of his cabinet and stick with the removed pages;


My only other wish is some way for the Fool to play a bigger part is either the misdirection or the actual conspiracy. Still, as a total innocent and portion of the Lady's alibi that may be enough.

It has been a lot of fun participating in this process!

- M

I'm happy with the wax idea.

You're right, the earring on the floor is better. There's a better chance of them finding it.


The reason I have Miles still alive when the lady comes in is specifically so he can tear the lace from her cuff. If the lace is elsewhere Miles would be dead when she arrives.

I'm wondering if instead of a piece of lace torn off by Miles, he's dead, but the lady scratches her arm on an antler when replacing the knife. Dramatic reveal when she has to pull up her sleeve and show the long, red line. The clue would be a piece of lace with a little blood on it found stuck to the antler.


In the first version the butler never used his dagger, he just returned it to his room. The second version had him actually killing Miles and leaving his dagger in the body, but keeping the sheath. I suppose Winston could see Miles is slumped over the desk, dead. He uses his dagger to cut the pages from the journal, there's a flash of lightning--he's startled and drops the dagger in the pool of blood spreading from the body. Now there's blood on the dagger, he has to get rid of it. He runs to the window and throws it outside. He come back to grab the pages and the sheath, then returns to his room, leaving the bloody shoe print as he leaves.

Now there doesn't have to be a name or anything on either the dagger or sheath. He has the sheath, the dagger is evidence, they match; it's not necessary to show attribution.


When the clothing comes back from the seamstress, the lady is looking it over and Leon is in the room playing some tune. He sees the bull insignia and gets upset. He remembers the day of the raid, he was a little older than the lady. He starts discussion it with her, she thinks that day and recognizes the symbol as well. Leon is responsible for setting the lady on a course to commit murder.

During the day, after poisoning the wine, the lady sees Leon about to head downstairs. She passes him the little clay poison container, and asks him to get rid of it. He doesn't know what it is, and just takes it with him. When he gets back to his room later on, he realizes that he's had it all day and just puts it on the table. When his room is searched, the party will find the vessel for the poison and Leon will truthfully tell them he knows nothing about the poison. He won't give up the lady no matter what. He remains a total innocent, but has an unknowing involvement in the murder.


Thank you for your interest and comments.

Mordar
2017-03-16, 06:18 PM
The reason I have Miles still alive when the lady comes in is specifically so he can tear the lace from her cuff. If the lace is elsewhere Miles would be dead when she arrives.

I'm wondering if instead of a piece of lace torn off by Miles, he's dead, but the lady scratches her arm on an antler when replacing the knife. Dramatic reveal when she has to pull up her sleeve and show the long, red line. The clue would be a piece of lace with a little blood on it found stuck to the antler.

I was thinking that the lace alone would be sufficient (not needing the blood) - the investigators find the lace and thus must find the dress that matches. That is a minor quibble though, so its probably solid either way!


In the first version the butler never used his dagger, he just returned it to his room. The second version had him actually killing Miles and leaving his dagger in the body, but keeping the sheath. I suppose Winston could see Miles is slumped over the desk, dead. He uses his dagger to cut the pages from the journal, there's a flash of lightning--he's startled and drops the dagger in the pool of blood spreading from the body. Now there's blood on the dagger, he has to get rid of it. He runs to the window and throws it outside. He come back to grab the pages and the sheath, then returns to his room, leaving the bloody shoe print as he leaves.

Now there doesn't have to be a name or anything on either the dagger or sheath. He has the sheath, the dagger is evidence, they match; it's not necessary to show attribution.

Exactly! That's why he needed to still have the sheath. Shoe print is good too, since it shows presence, but not guilt in the murder.


When the clothing comes back from the seamstress, the lady is looking it over and Leon is in the room playing some tune. He sees the bull insignia and gets upset. He remembers the day of the raid, he was a little older than the lady. He starts discussion it with her, she thinks that day and recognizes the symbol as well. Leon is responsible for setting the lady on a course to commit murder.

During the day, after poisoning the wine, the lady sees Leon about to head downstairs. She passes him the little clay poison container, and asks him to get rid of it. He doesn't know what it is, and just takes it with him. When he gets back to his room later on, he realizes that he's had it all day and just puts it on the table. When his room is searched, the party will find the vessel for the poison and Leon will truthfully tell them he knows nothing about the poison. He won't give up the lady no matter what. He remains a total innocent, but has an unknowing involvement in the murder.

Nicely managed!

- M

Mendicant
2017-03-16, 09:11 PM
This is great. Now that I think about it, the lace seems a bit too obvious--it threatens to shortcut the mystery. The antler scratch is fine--you could have them find the slightest bit of blood on it as a reward for either really intensive RP'd searching or an excellent check result, but a piece of lace feels like more info than you need--it's a confirmation. I still think a sign from where she got the rope is a better way to use a physical clue like a scrap of clothing; one clue leading to another clue is a lot of the fun in a mystery.

Everything else you've added is great. The sealing candle, the bigger role for Leon, Winston ditching the knife out the window, etc.

The Roboli and the violent border region seem like a good hook for bringing the party to the Earl in the first place--they want his help or resources in pacifying the region. (I don't know how you intend to fit this in a larger campaign, but Burton and pals seem like the sort of brewing problem that lower-level characters would be itching to solve, especially if they've already had a run-in with the Roboli.) Only one caveat though--if your Roboli adventure and the intervening one bring them to fifth, the Cleric has Speak With Dead, so any confrontation between a dying Miles and Godelina should be cut.

Mars Ultor
2017-03-17, 12:44 PM
I still think a sign from where she got the rope is a better way to use a physical clue like a scrap of clothing; one clue leading to another clue is a lot of the fun in a mystery.


The Roboli and the violent border region seem like a good hook for bringing the party to the Earl in the first place--they want his help or resources in pacifying the region. (I don't know how you intend to fit this in a larger campaign, but Burton and pals seem like the sort of brewing problem that lower-level characters would be itching to solve, especially if they've already had a run-in with the Roboli.) Only one caveat though--if your Roboli adventure and the intervening one bring them to fifth, the Cleric has Speak With Dead, so any confrontation between a dying Miles and Godelina should be cut.


The party will be able to identify the ropes as bed ropes, presumably they'll ask Winston or Doris about them. When Doris takes the party to where the bed ropes are kept, she'll find that she doesn't have her key to the storage room. She'll recall that Oslina had asked her for it so she could get spare linens to cover her dresses. Oslina will admit to having the key and will say that she couldn't get the door locked again, something's wrong with it, so she left it unlocked. She was going to tell Doris in the morning. That at least establishes that the area was open to everyone, and casts some suspicion on the daughter.


We play an episodic campaign; they travel around getting into trouble. It's an irregular schedule, usually only one session every three weeks or a month, and sometimes someone has to miss a game. I try to have each adventure last one session, perhaps two, so there's not a lot to be remembered each time.

I throw out a couple of threads during the adventure so I can see where they're going to want to go next time. They travel around the same area, and there are recurring NPCs who sometimes point them toward an adventure. "Did you hear about up north in Pedwell? Something is eating all the sheep, and the shepherds, too." Having the Roboli as a threat that pops up from time to time is easy to include.


I'm reasonably sure the Cleric won't be fifth yet. I prefer a low magic and grittier setting so I limit experience. They're becoming more well known in the area and get fringe benefits so they feel as they're moving up. But it's not an issue now because Miles is already dead, he doesn't need to be alive to tear the lace.

Mendicant
2017-03-17, 01:12 PM
This seems pretty well set. I'd like to know how it runs in person whenever you do it--I'd like to adapt it into my own setting at some point.


I'm reasonably sure the Cleric won't be fifth yet. I prefer a low magic and grittier setting so I limit experience. They're becoming more well known in the area and get fringe benefits so they feel as they're moving up.

Yeah, that's how I usually run games too.

Mars Ultor
2017-03-17, 04:44 PM
This seems pretty well set. I'd like to know how it runs in person whenever you do it--I'd like to adapt it into my own setting at some point.


I'm reasonably sure both these things will happen: one of the players will decide that an innocent suspect is actually the killer and will insist on a convoluted theory which "proves" he's right, excluding all evidence which doesn't support his view. Another of the players will make some sort of savant connection early on and start to piece things together too quickly. Then he'll get distracted and forget all about it.

These two players will then bicker until it becomes a five-against-one argument and the convoluted theory player will give in, but insist he's still right. After they solve the mystery he'll explain how his version was actually the correct version.

Something similar happens every session, so I'm pretty safe in thinking it will occur this time as well.

Gray Mage
2017-03-20, 09:24 PM
Let us know how it turns out. And good luck. :smallsmile:

RazorChain
2017-03-24, 04:56 PM
Just checking. A lot of people don't like mysteries and more so a lot of people don't like mysteries in D&D. Some people are find just putting away the character sheet and free from playing a mystery....but some are not. And the players with any types of non combat abilities will have lots to do, while the combat ones just sit there. It might make the more combat ones feel left out. Yes they can role play, but that is only part of D&D. When player A has a character do a dozen skill checks and other roll things, player B does not feel so great putting away the dice bag and siting there like ''um, does my character see anything?''. And it only gets worse when it's something like ''roll a check'' and the character can't or will get a low roll.

You might want to add some combat. For example, some type of attacker to distract the characters from the murder or even just a bandit or wild animal/monster.
.


I usuall just throw in a combat encounter before the parts that focus more on roleplaying.That way the players that enjoy the combat aspect of the game get to kill something and are content.

For example throw in some bandits or whatever on the way to the manor, there is a reason why the Earl wanted escort in the first place