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Pine
2017-03-04, 05:06 PM
This ability is meant for use with a rapier and a trained duelist/fencer character. I really just want to know if you think it is balanced, but any feedback is welcome.


Once per encounter (or maybe day) you focus on an enemy and find their weak points. During your next 3 attacks against your target, you gain an extra attack that does 1d4 damage if it hits. During these next 3 attack phases, if you hit 4 times you do an additional 3d10 damage, the target is bleeding for 1d8 (or maybe 1d6), and slowed by 10% until it makes a constitution saving throw vs. the player's dexterity modifier + 12 (or maybe +10).

GalacticAxekick
2017-03-04, 05:27 PM
This ability is meant for use with a rapier and a trained duelist/fencer character. I really just want to know if you think it is balanced, but any feedback is welcome.


Once per encounter (or maybe day) you focus on an enemy and find their weak points. During your next 3 attacks against your target, you gain an extra attack that does 1d4 damage if it hits. During these next 3 attack phases, if you hit 4 times you do an additional 3d10 damage, the target is bleeding for 1d8 (or maybe 1d6), and slowed by 10% until it makes a constitution saving throw vs. the player's dexterity modifier + 12 (or maybe +10).I love your idea, thematically: scrutinizing an enemy's defenses to improve your attacks is cool and definitely something a duelist might do. But mechanically, this has way too many moving parts.

Why during your next three Attack actions? That's an arbitrary number, which forces the players to do some bookkeeping. Systems like "During your next weapon attack" or "Until the end of your next turn" are far easier to keep track of.

Why an extra attack? That's an extra roll to slow the game down. Why not improve the attacks the player would already be making?

Why 1d4 damage? That's completely arbitrary, which again adds to player bookkeeping. Why not base the damage on the weapon used?

Why do you need to hit 4 times for extra damage? Why 3d10 damage? Bookkeeping. Bookkeeping.

And then there are so many extra effects that just don't need to be here. 1d8 bleed damage is both an arbitrary number and an unnecessary bonus to a strong feature? 10% speed reduction is evil math and an unnecessary bonus to a strong feature. The constitution save makes things less overpowered, but also more complicated.



So how can we streamline this? First, let's lemove the limits per rest by making the feature far weaker: an alternative action rather than a superior action. Remove specific dice, extra attack rolls and saving throws. Limit it to the basics.

Once per encounter (or maybe day) you You may focus on an enemy and find their weak points. During your next 3 attacks against your target, you gain an extra attack that does 1d4 damage if it hits As an action, you may roll an Intelligence (Investigation) or Wisdom (Intuition) check to scrutinize the defenses of one creature you can see. During these next 3 attack phases, if you hit 4 times you do an additional 3d10 damage, the target is bleeding for 1d8 (or maybe 1d6), and slowed by 10% until it makes a constitution saving throw vs. the player's dexterity modifier + 12 (or maybe +10) Until the end of your next turn, if your attack rolls are lower than the result of this check, you may instead use the result of this check.

Pine
2017-03-04, 05:45 PM
I meant for this to be a fairly powerful combo-esque ability. Hence the complexity. And yes, the numbers are arbitrary, but I was trying to make it into a viable damage/utility ability throughout the game.

So, assuming the player has no problem bookkeeping, and the dm has no problem with math, do you think that it is balanced?

I do really like your take on the idea though, and I might use it for something.

GalacticAxekick
2017-03-04, 05:52 PM
I meant for this to be a fairly powerful combo-esque ability. Hence the complexity. And yes, the numbers are arbitrary, but I was trying to make it into a viable damage/utility ability throughout the game.

So, assuming the player has no problem bookkeeping, and the dm has no problem with math, do you think that it is balanced?

I do really like your take on the idea though, and I might use it for something.It's hard to judge the balance, due to the sheer complexity of the ability. The balance is contingent on how reliably the 4-hit effect will be activated and how long it will tend to last. But I see potential for this to be encounter-breaking, especially as Fighters gain extra attacks and better odds of activating the 4-hit feature.

That side, you're asking me to set aside the bookkeeping and complexity, but I think these are very serious issues with the feature. They will slow the game and they will break immersion. Not to mention a lot of it, like the combo element or limitations per short/long rest, is inconsistent with the theme of scrutinizing defenses. You're asking me to set aside my opinions on such things and assume the DM and players will be fine with it, but I don't think that assumption is realistic.



EDIT: I should explain, you want this to be a combo ability, and a source of damage, and a source of utility. But it can't be all of the above. Players should be given meaningful decisions, and not a limited use swiss-army-power, meaning each of these functions must be an alternative to ordinary attacks rather than a strict upgrade.

Vital Sense: As an action, you may scrutinize the defenses of one target. Until the end of your next turn, instead of making attack rolls, you hit your target if they fail a Dexterity saving throw, the DC for which is 8 + Your Proficiency + Your Strength or Dexterity (as appropriate for your weapon). This effectively ignores armour of all kinds, though it can still be dodged.

Hamstring: When you successfully hit a creature with your Vital Sense, you forgo your damage roll and instead reduce their speed by 10 feet. At the end of each the turns, the target may make a Constitution save against your Vital Sense DC to end this effect

Gut: When you successfully hit a creature with your Vital Sense, you forgo your damage roll. At the start of each of their turns, your target bleeds and takes damage equal to your weapon's damage die. The damage type is the same as your weapon's. At the end of each the turns, the target may make a Constitution save against your Vital Sense DC to end this effect

Comboing, I found no simple system to accomodate. In 5e, Extra Attack is your combo feature.

Pine
2017-03-04, 06:19 PM
I'm sorry. I made this thinking of the people I usually play with. To myself, and them, it seems pretty simple.
I do understand your thoughts though, and I am starting to see how it could break things.

So how about this:

You find the vital spots on a target enemy. You gain 1 extra basic attack this turn. After 3 of your attacks hit, the target suffers 1d6 bleed for its next 3 turns, and has speed reduced by 10ft for its next 3 turns.

GalacticAxekick
2017-03-04, 06:22 PM
I'm sorry. I made this thinking of the people I usually play with. To myself, and them, it seems pretty simple.
I do understand your thoughts though, and I am starting to see how it could break things.

So how about this:

You find the vital spots on a target enemy. You gain 1 extra basic attack this turn. After 3 of your attacks hit, the target suffers 1d6 bleed for its next 3 turns, and has speed reduced by 10ft for its next 3 turns. Definitely simpler. But I still feel you're trying to cover too many bases with one feature. Extra attacks, bleed damage and speed reduction should be separate features the player chooses between.