Best ways to destroy enemy equipment that they're wearing or holding?

[Gusmo]

In a previous thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?517120-Are-there-rules-for-attacking-held-weapons-with-spells-such-as-scorching-ray) I discovered that destroying enemy equipment that they're wearing or carrying is trickier than I thought. So far right now I have regular sunder attacks and shatter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shatter.htm). Preempt either with some sort of dispel effect if needed. Shatter is nice because it also works on armor, and armor wearers frequently have poor will saves. And of course then there's disjunction, but few games will ever reach a point where that even comes online.

What other ways are there to weaken your foes by destroying their equipment? Bonus points if it can be done reliably without dispelling. Why would you want to destroy your potential loot? Because it might not be valuable in the first place, for one. If you can eliminate a spell component pouch, someone's cheap armor or primary weapon, or whatever, that's potentially a huge debuff by sacrificing the pittance you'd make from going to the trouble of selling the item. Or it might be the final battle and you know you'll never have a chance to use or sell the loot anyway. Or maybe you know they've got boots of teleportation or something, and you know they're otherwise going to escape. Regardless, while I recognize this will be a more uncommon scenario, it can be incredibly effective, so I'm curious about more ways to go about it.

[Deophaun]

Well, is the intent to destroy the equipment, or just prevent the enemy from benefiting from it? Because Master Pickpocket will allow you to remove your opponent's armor as a free action, no provoking, with a DC 30 Sleight of Hand check. Won't help with whatever he's actually holding, though. But necklaces, bracers, boots, cloaks, helms, all fair game.

[theasl]

Throw a rust monster at them? :smallbiggrin:

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Energy Missile (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyMissile.htm), sonic usually works best. Of course augment it up to your manifester level.

[Gruftzwerg]

since Shatter is a 2nd lvl 1 Spell (DC 12 + castingstat mod), I would highly recommend "Heighten Spell" to increase the save DC.

edit: got the wrong spell lvl in my mind and stand corrected. But would still recommend heighten spell.

[remetagross]

Phantasmal Thief to steal all they wear, or Teleport Object to get it out once and for all.

[Dappershire]

Throw a rust monster at them? :smallbiggrin:

So that was meant as a joke, but is that possible? I was actually thinking of their eggs. Could throwing those cause a heavy metal corrosion effect? Or is the rust attack magic, not chemical? I'm not up to code on monster lore.

[Gusmo]

Good stuff so far. The rust monster idea is intriguing, you could use polymorph to get that ability. On the other hand, going down the polymorph rabbit hole brings up all sorts of stupid powerful options anyway.

More things!

[Thurbane]

Gauntlet of Rust (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#gauntletofRust)
Rod of Cancellation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rods.htm#cancellation)

[Inevitability]

since Shatter is a lvl 1 Spell (DC 11 + castingstat mod), I would highly recommend "Heighten Spell" to increase the save DC.

It is a 2nd-level spell, actually.

[Gruftzwerg]

It is a 2nd-level spell, actually.

oh, yeah, I corrected the post to prevent further misinformation. ty for pointing it out

[Gusmo]

No worries, it doesn't change much. Heightened low level spells can really create havoc as the game goes on, even grease has great staying power. It's why spell focus (conjuration) isn't a pre req I sneer at too much for augment summon. Sure, it's not the best school you could hve it in, but in core alone you've got plenty of gems for it. Grease, cloudkill, web, stinking cloud, are very good spells that benefit, but now I can add teleport object to the list, though it's much more limited in its application.

[Zancloufer]

Well, is the intent to destroy the equipment, or just prevent the enemy from benefiting from it? Because Master Pickpocket will allow you to remove your opponent's armor as a free action, no provoking, with a DC 30 Sleight of Hand check. Won't help with whatever he's actually holding, though. But necklaces, bracers, boots, cloaks, helms, all fair game.

DC 50 (or 70 for free action) let's you lift any weapon they are carrying. DC 40 is free action small objects (not equipment). I mean if you can mimic that one lightning thief (even if it's only 70% of the build) you can pretty much strip someone naked as a free action with Master Pickpocket.

[Cerefel]

Warlocks can get an at-will shatter effect from level 1

[theasl]

So that was meant as a joke, but is that possible? I was actually thinking of their eggs. Could throwing those cause a heavy metal corrosion effect? Or is the rust attack magic, not chemical? I'm not up to code on monster lore.

Depends on the version:

In 3.5e it's Ex (non-magical), but it only happens if the rust monster touches the item with its antennae or if the item does damage to it.
In Pathfinder it's Su (magical), and it doesn't affect items that do damage to the rust monster.

So if you're thinking of actually using this in a game, I'd ask your DM first.

[Mordaedil]

Warlocks can get an at-will shatter effect from level 1

Why would a warlock take anything besides Eldritch Spear as their first invocation?

[Cerefel]

Why would a warlock take anything besides Eldritch Spear as their first invocation?

Because Baleful Utterance gives a lot more utility than Eldritch Spear. You can use it do break doors, walls, ceilings, weapons, armor, furniture, etc. Not every character is a combatant first and foremost, but even the ones that are can do reasonably well with a shatter effect at will.

[Inevitability]

Why would a warlock take anything besides Eldritch Spear as their first invocation?

Because Eldritch Glaive is awesome, Beguiling Influence dominates social encounters, Spiderwalk solves most low-level mobility problems, Entropic Warding is a wonderful defense and having 250 feet of range on your EB's isn't that useful in most scenarios?

[jmax]

Depends on the version:

In 3.5e it's Ex (non-magical), but it only happens if the rust monster touches the item with its antennae or if the item does damage to it.
In Pathfinder it's Su (magical), and it doesn't affect items that do damage to the rust monster.

So if you're thinking of actually using this in a game, I'd ask your DM first.

Because it's Ex in 3.5, you can get it with polymorph. A rust monster is an aberration and therefore a legitimate form. They're a bit squishy, so you might do better casting it on a summoned creature with high enough Int to execute strategies. Magic items get a saving throw, but the DC isn't bad due to the +4 racial bonus. You can get that up to DC 19 by casting bear's endurance. Use a summon with Weapon Finesse and either good BAB or fairly high hit dice to improve your chances with the touch attack.

If you can goad the enemy into attacking your temporary rust monster with a metal weapon, RAW suggests the attacker's weapon doesn't get a saving throw even if it's magical.


For another option, if your DM is flexible, look up the dwarf Athrogate from R. A. Salvatore's Forgotten Realms books. His weapons may give you some ideas.

[Telonius]

The Entice Gift spell is an option. Not nearly as reliable (SR: Yes, Will Negates, and it is mind-affecting), but it does the job without damaging the equipment.

You could dominate an Ethereal Filcher, and have it steal an item (as long as the object is small).

Repel Wood, or Repel Metal, could potentially disarm someone. Both of them are no save, SR: No.

More of a drastic solution, but a Knight build combined with Vow of Peace (something like Saint Bertold (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=5998772&postcount=2), but with more Knight so higher DC on Test of Mettle) can force enemies to attack you, shattering their weapons when they do.

[Psyren]

Because Baleful Utterance gives a lot more utility than Eldritch Spear. You can use it do break doors, walls, ceilings, weapons, armor, furniture, etc. Not every character is a combatant first and foremost, but even the ones that are can do reasonably well with a shatter effect at will.

Indeed, it's the best kind of low-level power - the kind that is useful in a variety of situations right away and that continues to be useful as you level.


Why would a warlock take anything besides Eldritch Spear as their first invocation?

How often do you get to start fights 250ft. away?

[Thurbane]

Starmantle Cloak (BoED p.116): destroys any non-magical weapon that strike the wearer.

[Inevitability]

Starmantle Cloak (BoED p.116): destroys any non-magical weapon that strike the wearer.

Combine it with a Contingent Greater Dispel Magic or something like that for more fun. Enemy swings sword, sword is suddenly nonmagical, no more sword.

[Twurps]

the 'Smashing Blow' feat from kingdoms of kalamar?
lets you attack a weapon or shield your enemy is wearing.

Caveats:
-It's 3.0, not 3.5.
-it only works on weapons and shields
-Most importantly: I don't own the book, all of the above is hearsay at best, utter nonsense at worst. A confirmation either way would be appreciated

[Yxylu]

If you don't mind a delay, during which they will still be deprived of the item, use the following feats:

- Improved Disarm (steal the item in question)
- Throw Anything (if it's a weapon; if not argue that it's an improvised weapon, or use the Hulking Hurler ability Really Throw Anything)
- Distant Shot (epic feat, aim at anything you can see without any range penalties)

Essentially, you grab their stuff and throw it into the Sun.

[Calthropstu]

In pathfinder there is a steal combat manuever. There is also disintigrate. Also, many targettable abilities can be directed at items. Scorching ray, for example.