Any speakers of Occitan (Provençal in particular) in the playground?

[Deadly]

I'm looking for someone who speaks Occitan, preferably Provençal dialect, who would be willing to help me. A native speaker would be ideal.

I've been studying the region around Arles for a while for a novel, but there are sadly not many resources on Occitan that I can find. I could use someone familiar with the language(s) and culture of the region who is willing to help me with all the questions I'm bound to have, to help me learn (I've been teaching myself French so far, and a little Spanish, but I would like to learn Occitan if I could)

[Aedilred]

I hope there are, because I'm very interested in the history and culture of that region. However, given that its native speakers are estimated in the tens of thousands and almost certainly no more than a million, I fear it's unlikely.

If you can't find language resources in Occitan you might have more luck finding resources for Catalan, as it is a bigger language. Even that may be a struggle, to be honest, and it was a real task for me finding a Catalan language course (even when I did, it folded after one semester due to lack of subscription), but it does have a wider base of native speakers and more governmental support, so I think there is more out there to be found.

Catalan and Occitan are closely enough related that they are pretty much mutually intelligible, and while there are differences, if you know Catalan you can probably understand Occitan well enough at least in its written form. Certainly when it comes to learning the grammar, I imagine it would be much easier to find resources for Catalan grammar, and this will translate over pretty much directly most of the time, since the majority of the differences are in the vocabulary.

If you are planning to visit the region and that's why you want to learn the language, I can say from experience that French will perfectly suffice. Across the two regions of France where Occitan is spoken (i.e. Provence-Alpes-Cote-d'Azure* and Occitanie) somewhere under 10% of the population speak Occitan at all, and almost all Occitan speakers also speak French fluently**. Street signs and the like are bilingual French-Occitan, or monolingual French. While I would applaud the idea of learning the local dialect for purposes of visiting the region, unless you're going to live there I think it's more trouble than it's worth.

The above is not meant to discourage you from learning the language as to recommend that there's no reason to delay visiting just because you're having difficulty learning the language. That area of France is one of my absolute favourite parts of the world and I would recommend everyone visit if I didn't worry that filling up with non-French tourists might ruin it. (I am slightly more familiar with Occitania, but Provence is also encantadora).

*I hope they get round to changing this name soon.
**In fact, and again in my experience, in any area you're likely to visit as a tourist, the people there also speak English well enough that Franglais will serve if necessary.

[Sian]

what kind of novel is it ... historical? ... looking for a semi-obscure dialect for a pseudo-secret language? ... dependent on the answer it might be easier to point you in the right direction, both for the more general question, and perhaps for some of the question that you would intend to ask the person(s) in question

[Deadly]

I hope there are, because I'm very interested in the history and culture of that region. However, given that its native speakers are estimated in the tens of thousands and almost certainly no more than a million, I fear it's unlikely.

If you can't find language resources in Occitan you might have more luck finding resources for Catalan, as it is a bigger language. Even that may be a struggle, to be honest, and it was a real task for me finding a Catalan language course (even when I did, it folded after one semester due to lack of subscription), but it does have a wider base of native speakers and more governmental support, so I think there is more out there to be found.

Catalan and Occitan are closely enough related that they are pretty much mutually intelligible, and while there are differences, if you know Catalan you can probably understand Occitan well enough at least in its written form. Certainly when it comes to learning the grammar, I imagine it would be much easier to find resources for Catalan grammar, and this will translate over pretty much directly most of the time, since the majority of the differences are in the vocabulary.

If you are planning to visit the region and that's why you want to learn the language, I can say from experience that French will perfectly suffice. Across the two regions of France where Occitan is spoken (i.e. Provence-Alpes-Cote-d'Azure* and Occitanie) somewhere under 10% of the population speak Occitan at all, and almost all Occitan speakers also speak French fluently**. Street signs and the like are bilingual French-Occitan, or monolingual French. While I would applaud the idea of learning the local dialect for purposes of visiting the region, unless you're going to live there I think it's more trouble than it's worth.

The above is not meant to discourage you from learning the language as to recommend that there's no reason to delay visiting just because you're having difficulty learning the language. That area of France is one of my absolute favourite parts of the world and I would recommend everyone visit if I didn't worry that filling up with non-French tourists might ruin it. (I am slightly more familiar with Occitania, but Provence is also encantadora).

*I hope they get round to changing this name soon.
**In fact, and again in my experience, in any area you're likely to visit as a tourist, the people there also speak English well enough that Franglais will serve if necessary.

GitP is a varied place, I've found, so I'm hopeful. But you're right, it's a shot in the dark.

I've visited the region once and intend to do so again. For that purpose, English and my limited French suffice, indeed.


what kind of novel is it ... historical? ... looking for a semi-obscure dialect for a pseudo-secret language? ... dependent on the answer it might be easier to point you in the right direction, both for the more general question, and perhaps for some of the question that you would intend to ask the person(s) in question

Urban Fantasy. Some of the characters speak Occitan, along with French of course. I may not need much - a few words and sentences here and there - but I want to make sure I represent them and their language correctly.

[Aedilred]

GitP is a varied place, I've found, so I'm hopeful. But you're right, it's a shot in the dark.

I've visited the region once and intend to do so again. For that purpose, English and my limited French suffice, indeed.

I'm glad to hear it!

[lio45]

I had older relatives who spoke the local patois (a variant of Provençal) on France's Côte d'Azur where my dad's family is from, but I don't believe we have anyone still alive in the family who's a speaker. However, if you're serious enough (writing a novel might qualify), I could be willing to send my cousins an email about your case, they might know people locally who could answer specific questions.

For the record, I found that I can actually decipher Occitan decently well, given that I also speak Spanish (French is my native language) and it's kinda halfway between the two.

[Deadly]

I had older relatives who spoke the local patois (a variant of Provençal) on France's Côte d'Azur where my dad's family is from, but I don't believe we have anyone still alive in the family who's a speaker. However, if you're serious enough (writing a novel might qualify), I could be willing to send my cousins an email about your case, they might know people locally who could answer specific questions.

For the record, I found that I can actually decipher Occitan decently well, given that I also speak Spanish (French is my native language) and it's kinda halfway between the two.

That may be the only option. So far there doesn't appear to be anyone else, though I'll bump the thread and give it another chance to catch someone's attention.

The book is still a work in progress, and I have no way of knowing how long it'll take to finish, so I don't have a list of questions all ready. But if you know or can find anyone willing to occasionally help me out with questions that come up, I'd be very thankful.

[Red Bear]

I'm looking for someone who speaks Occitan, preferably Provençal dialect, who would be willing to help me. A native speaker would be ideal.

I've been studying the region around Arles for a while for a novel, but there are sadly not many resources on Occitan that I can find. I could use someone familiar with the language(s) and culture of the region who is willing to help me with all the questions I'm bound to have, to help me learn (I've been teaching myself French so far, and a little Spanish, but I would like to learn Occitan if I could)

Do you mean the french dialect they speak now in the region or the medieval language?

[Deadly]

Do you mean the french dialect they speak now in the region or the medieval language?

Modern. The story is set in the present, so that's what the characters would speak.

[lio45]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but as someone who has got personal ties to the area, if your story is set in the present, then the language your characters would speak is standard-French-with-a-strong-southern-accent.

[Tvtyrant]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but as someone who has got personal ties to the area, if your story is set in the present, then the language your characters would speak is standard-French-with-a-strong-southern-accent.

It does not have to be this present.

[Aedilred]

It does not have to be this present.

But if you're going to set it in an alternate world, you don't need to worry about using a real language.

I could see an argument for using the language if it's meant to tell us something about the character. I recall a film called Milou en Mai in which there was an old beekeeper who insisted that the local language (which I think was Occitan or something similar to it, but I can't remember entirely) was the best tongue to talk to bees in, which immediately helped to establish something about him and the setting. I met some vintners in the area who were very insistent that the Midi was different to France. I could imagine, for instance, an old, grumpy character infuriated by Parisians coming and tramping on his patch muttering under his breath to himself in Occitan, or using it to speak to the locals as a kind of private code.

I don't know details of the story, though, of course.

[Deadly]

But if you're going to set it in an alternate world, you don't need to worry about using a real language.

I could see an argument for using the language if it's meant to tell us something about the character. I recall a film called Milou en Mai in which there was an old beekeeper who insisted that the local language (which I think was Occitan or something similar to it, but I can't remember entirely) was the best tongue to talk to bees in, which immediately helped to establish something about him and the setting. I met some vintners in the area who were very insistent that the Midi was different to France. I could imagine, for instance, an old, grumpy character infuriated by Parisians coming and tramping on his patch muttering under his breath to himself in Occitan, or using it to speak to the locals as a kind of private code.

I don't know details of the story, though, of course.

Right on the nail.

All the characters speak French as their first language, but it's my understanding that there are in fact a few people in the south of France who still speak Occitan among themselves even if they speak French to everyone else. Most of my characters don't, but there are one or two who still know it due to family history and tradition. It's a sort of pride to them, keeping this tradition alive.