Healers & Necromancers getting along?

[Kelt]

Hey everybody. In a 3.5 campaign, I'm playing an NG healer (from the Miniatures Handbook) and another player is an NE death master (from the Dragon Compendium). The immediate question was, how would we ever get these two into a party together, much less cooperate? To hopefully fix that, we ended up having our characters play sisters, with the deathmaster five years older and basically raising the healer in the absence of their parents, which is a whole other story. That way, they would not only be able to work together more or less, they would also both be motivated to keep the party whole.

We thought that solved things, but then questions were raised that the healer cooperating with the necromancer, and vice versa, would push their alignments towards true neutral. Because both classes necessitate a good or evil alignment, that's obviously kind of a problem. We hoped that having the death master working out of self-interest (if I protect the healer, she'll heal me and I can go on to do evil things elsewhere) and the healer out of self-preservation (if I heal the deathmaster, she'll protect me and I can heal the rest of the party (which is NG, CG, and CN) and others) would work but it seems to not be.

Is there a way for us to both keep our alignments and still work together? All help will be appreciated. Thanks!

[etrpgb]

It depends on the settings, but if you are in a "Love is the strongest force"-kinda setting the brotherly love is definitely enough: "family first" and "sigh, you cannot decide your own family" can solve many problems.

[Vhaidara]

Alignment is honestly not well implemented for nuanced characters like these, but Evil characters can totally still care for people. Since DnD enforces the (imo stupid) rule that necromancy is evil, all the death master has to do is keep being a necromancer, and they will continue to be evil. So the question becomes why?

The answer is, of course, that it's a tool. It's the tool that he has a talent for, and a powerful one. It allows him to influence the world, whether he wants to change it, or if his goal is just to protect his little sister, he's going to use that talent. What else he does is actually kind of irrelevant, the nature of his magic makes him evil, even if he was, say, using skeletons to build orphanages.

Meanwhile, your character's gifts lie with healing magic, and she sees the darkness that her brother is facing every day, from the very nature of his talents. So she does what she can to help him, keeping him safe and trying to steer his non-necromancy choices away from evil.

[eggynack]

I think it has a lot more to do with how this interaction works in the moment than some weird overriding notion that good and evil make neutral when they're in the same party. If the death master is truly evil, then at some point the character will do something evil, and at that point the healer's reaction will say a lot about where they fall alignment-wise. I can't see the death master having much of an issue maintaining alignment. Even evil has loved ones. As long as the death master isn't personally bringing good unto the world, it should be fine. If this is that big an issue, removing one of the alignment restrictions on one of the classes shouldn't be a big deal. I'd tend towards the death master going neutral. I can't see anything about the death master that's more evil than something that a dread necromancer is doing, and that class can be neutral.

[OldTrees1]

I am confused, why would the necromancer be upset about a healer? Healing is a subdomain of necromancy as any necromancer can lecture about.


So it really boils down to, can the healer tolerate the necromancer? Certainly the healer will probably have some hard limits (don't kick that puppy or I will leave) but perhaps there are some lesser evils that they can tolerate as long as they don't have to participate. I hope it also goes without saying that not every goal/project of an evil necromancer is an evil goal/project.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Just make the evil one tell his little sister-healer to wait outside every time he will hurt someone so the healer will not fall from not healing.

Ex-Healers
A healer who grossly violates her ethos (such as by refusing to heal an ally or a good-aligned creature) loses all spells and class features (except for proficiency with simple weapons and light armor). She cannot thereafter gain levels as a healer until she atones.

[OldTrees1]

Just make the evil one tell his little sister-healer to wait outside every time he will hurt someone so the healer will not fall from not healing.

Ex-Healers
A healer who grossly violates her ethos (such as by refusing to heal an ally or a good-aligned creature) loses all spells and class features (except for proficiency with simple weapons and light armor). She cannot thereafter gain levels as a healer until she atones.

Looks like that is only a concern for Allies and Good creatures. The Healer can refuse to heal a Neutral or Evil aligned enemy(remember Evil can and often does fight other Evils)

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Looks like that is only a concern for Allies and Good creatures. The Healer can refuse to heal a Neutral or Evil aligned enemy(remember Evil can and often does fight other Evils)

I know, I really like evil PCs.

The Healer may be able to know if the guys her sister is hurting is good or not(even a good party need to kill and hurt some good guys now and then in order to do what they need to do, this is why I will never be a Paladin).

[hamishspence]

I can't see anything about the death master that's more evil than something that a dread necromancer is doing, and that class can be neutral.

There's the whole "minion of the demon prince Orcus" thing, at least.

[OldTrees1]

I know, I really like evil PCs.

The Healer may be able to know if the guys her sister is hurting is good or not(even a good party need to kill and hurt some good guys now and then in order to do what they need to do, this is why I will never be a Paladin).

A healer can hurt other good aligned creatures. They merely cannot refuse to heal them. So maybe avoid killing the good ones.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

A healer can hurt other good aligned creatures. They merely cannot refuse to heal them. So maybe avoid killing the good ones.
I was talking about out of combat scenarios.
I never heard about a class that can use weapons but can't use them to fight.

In combat she will have no problems unless the one time(maybe more, I don't know their DM) the good enemy will ask her to keep him alive.
You can't refuse if nobody ask you for help.

[ATHATH]

I was talking about out of combat scenarios.
I never heard about a class that can use weapons but can't use them to fight.

In combat she will have no problems unless the one time(maybe more, I don't know their DM) the good enemy will ask her to keep him alive.
You can't refuse if nobody ask you for help.
You could knock them out with non-lethal damage, then heal them up while they're in restraints.

[eggynack]

There's the whole "minion of the demon prince Orcus" thing, at least.
Yeah, but we're refluffing things a bit here, I'd think. Alternatively, going by the cleric standard, you could probably be a chaotic neutral minion of Orcus. If the player is in this class for the evil Orcus flavor, then there's not much in the way of this kinda solution anyway. I was assuming the class choice was in large part mechanical, and that close specifics of it aren't necessarily necessary.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

You could knock them out with non-lethal damage, then heal them up while they're in restraints.

You can also use lethal damage if you have a reason to, you will just need to heal them if they are good and ask you to do it.

If nobody ask you to heal him(if he is good) you don't have to heal.

[Telonius]

Healer: Alas, I was too late to save him.
Necromancer: Yeah, too bad, I ... What in the world is that?
Healer: Huh? Where?
Patient: Unnnggggh...
Necromancer: Hey, look! Your patient is fine!
Healer: We've talked about this, Bob.
Necromancer: I'm just trying to make you feel better.
Patient. ggggrrrrghhhlll...
Necromancer: See? He's saying "I'm good."

[Dagroth]

Healers & Necromacers getting along...

Mass Hysteria!

(Sorry, I held back as long as I could!)

[Mage keeper]

He is a healer not a radiant servant of pelor, so yes they can get along