Healer class Optimization?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Okay, those who are familiar with my deeds may be aware that I'm fairly well known for optimizing classes that are... shall we say 'sub-optimal'? Oh, let's be honest, I take crap, and I make it do something at least worthwhile. One of the more famous examples is a GW Samurai by the name of Takahashi no Onisan (link in sig) which was pretty much 'area effect save or cower'. Sure, it's not 100% effective, but on anything not immune to his shtick, he's an area-effect shutdown. So... basically, took a Tier 6 class and made a Tier 4 build.

But there's one class I find even more difficult to optimize... the Healer class from the Miniatures Handbook. Quite bluntly: it is complete and utter garbage. It does not function as a healer, much less as any sort of participating character. And the worst part is that they can apparently fall for not healing someone just because of their alignment. Really?

Healing Hands is the key ability the Healer gets, which is basically Charisma to any of the healing subschool spells cast as a Healer. So no one-level dip for bonuses, you have to cast spells through the Healer class to get it to work, and really... that's not a whole lot of extra healing.

Now, the easy way is simple: Hit level 12 and play a Lammasu with a healbot on top. In effect, let your companion carry your weight. Of course, by the time you hit level 12, an 8HD creature really is kind of a downgrade anyway. The Gynosphinx isn't much better, the symbols are very gimickey, and the combat isn't much better.

Water Naga isn't very good either, 7th level sorcerer only has 3rd level spells. Granted, if it takes something like Haste for the party, it could be useful, but being an aquatic creature really cripples it for anything other than a dedicated seafaring campaign.

The next tier of pets aren't much better. Androsphinx's roar is very party unfriendly, and the casting is even worse than the Lammasu. Stats are marginally better, but still worse than your typical beatstick tank character.

The Coutal has some possibilities. It does get Plane Shift, which opens up certain shennanigans, although casting as a 9th level sorcerer is pretty weaksauce for the level this ability unlocks at. Still useful for buffing and, unlike the naga, can assume a humanoid form for easier concealment. The stats, however, are very weak for this level, and the poison's DC is an anemic 16. Granted, Str damage is nice, but nothing should be failing that check at this level.

It's a preparation class, that can only prepare from its own list of spells, which mostly suck. However, tacking on more spells to the list is going to be harder to do than usual, and even then, you're basically sacrificing stuff to get to be a sub-par version of either cleric or bard, depending on what type of spells you end up with.

About the only 'trick' I see is Mass Cure Light Wounds, where he gets to add his Cha mod to everybody's healing, on top of the higher level cap. Still not impressed, a Bard can beat that pretty trivially with Words of Healing.

And to add insult to injury? Do you know what class is listed directly before Healer in the Miniatures handbook? Favored Soul. Strictly superior in every conceivable way.

I dunno. I've tried. I tried doing tricks with Rainbow Serpent to tack on an actually useful spell list, but that doesn't address the basic dysfunction to begin with. I've tried various means of tacking on spells to the spell list, but that's merely a band-aid. It has fewer spells per day than the Favored Soul, so even if it had a larger spell list, it still is worse at its own shtick.

Hell, at least the Spontaneous Divine Cleric I could do domain shenanigans with Sovereign Speaker to basically get a Schroedinger's Cleric. But on this one? I'm stumped.

[Pugwampy]

I played a healer class and I stole the show in a dragon fight . I did not kill the dragon but i healed like demon .

I would pick a healer over any other divine castor any day in 3.5 land.

Ever heard of the close wounds spell in the same book ? You can cast it for free and at a distance . Which means you can cast two spells per round . Admittedly i dunno if Favoured soul can play that trick too .

You want to optimize healer . Give her the Healing Hand prestige class .
Healing hand level gets 1 extra hp bonus on cure spells . You can stack that with your charisma bonus. a maxed out Healing Hand gives +10 hp on your curing spells
Your average cleric casting cure minor spell will cure for a whole 1 hp . My cure minor wounds cured for 17 hp .

Healing hand also gives bonus health spells . Any mass cure wounds a cleric could do I could double or triple that .

You want to get rid of zombies call the cleric . You want to fart more hit points than the monster is damaging you with call Doctor healer .

[Thurbane]

A common suggestion is to get access to Sanctified spells.

[Troacctid]

A common suggestion is to get access to Sanctified spells.
You don't need to "get" access—like all prepared casters, you have native access to every Sanctified spell in your allowed source material, with no expenditure of resources required.

[Zombimode]

It does not function as a healer, much less as any sort of participating character.

This is simply not true. The Healer DOES work as a healer. It is effective healing siginficant amounts of damage in-combat and is very well equiped to handle most Status effects without being specifically prepared for them.

If this is actually enough to feel worthwhile is a different matter. From my personal experience playing a Healer I would say "No, it isnt". It felt worse then an unoptimized Fighter. But I think the reason for this is that the Healer has very few options that directly contribute to defeating the opponents. An unoptimized Fighter at least has an attack (that may or may not hit) and deals 1d8+6 or so damage.

I do think that the Healer class Needs help. But it is the "do something else then healing"-part that Needs to be enhanced. The healing is fine (and no, it can't be replaced in that regard by a Favored Soul).


As it stands my houserule changes for the Healer are:
- gets 2 Domains (including Domain ability), plus a Domain Slot

This provides a small amount of non-healing spells, opens up new PRC options. Together with Sanctified spells and some good build decisions this could provide enough options for combat other then healing.
It is untested though.

[etrpgb]

As it stands my houserule changes for the Healer are:

I recently posted also my Healer update (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?517177-D-amp-D3-5-New-Healer), but it went mainly unnoticed.

[Telonius]

All I've got is early access to Seeker of the Misty Isle (which eventually gives access to the Travel and Magic domains). 8/10 casting (or 10/10, with a good ruling, since text trumps table); the only other full casters (that I can see) who could get it at level 6 would be a Druid or a Cleric who already has the Travel domain. The PrC is otherwise kind of crappy, with a bunch of 1/(way too seldom) abilities, but I guess that's kind of par for Healer.

EDIT: On the other hand it does get 6+Int skills, and several class skills that aren't on the Healer list.

[Grim Reader]

My first thought was Beastmaster. But I think you need a DM fudge to make that work.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Use Sanctified Spells to gain non-healing-based magic.

The Spell Compendium directs you to add an unspecified selection of healing and protection spells; use that language to pick up a bunch of good defensive buffs.

Hop into a class like Sovereign Speaker to get more. Or take Southern Magician and dip Sand Shaper.

Grab Wild Cohort for an extra buddy.

[Vizzerdrix]

Hmm... can a healer take Cerebrosis? Seems they would be best suited for dealing with the negative effects from boosting those spells.

[stack]

I once had one with vow of nonviolence to boost the DC on calm emotions. It shut down an encounter, game didnt last long though. Maybe some kind of apostle of peace build, but that would really be using the prestige rather than the base.

[ATHATH]

If you're a Hellbred, the Necrotic Cyst feat is nice.

I think that a LG Healer can enter Prestige Paladin at 9th level, if it can find some way to gain Turn Undead. It'll lock the Healer out of Sandshaper, though, unless you take Sandshaper first, change alignment, then take Prestige Paladin.

Prestige Ranger can also be entered at 9th level, but requires you to be able to cast Calm Animals as a divine spell. Luckily, the Animal domain will give us that spell... if we can acquire it.

Once you have at least one Domain, Imbued Healing might be a good feat to pick up.

Combat Medic also adds riders to your healing spells, but one of its best features is the ability to spontaneously convert spell slots into the Heal spell.

Spontaneous Healer+Mastery of Day and Night might be ok if you want to fill up your spell slots with non-healing spells but still be able to heal.

Between Cerebrosis, Necrotic Cyst, PrCs that grants good domains and/or Turn Undead, Prestige Ranger, Prestige Paladin, and/or Sandshaper, you should have a decent selection of spells available to you.

[Thurbane]

You don't need to "get" access—like all prepared casters, you have native access to every Sanctified spell in your allowed source material, with no expenditure of resources required.

You need to "get access" by checking with the DM if Sanctified spells are in play. Not every campaign is a kitchen-sink type.

[Troacctid]

I did say allowed source material.

[Vizzerdrix]

Hmm... I wonder if souther magician would allow it to enter mage of the arcane order?

[Thurbane]

You can make a Healer "gish" by going into Knight of the Raven. Well, I say gish, but honestly, just a Healer with better BAB.

[Dagroth]

Combat Medic from Heroes of Battle is open to you.

If you need a Domain, Contemplative will give you one.

Seeker of the Misty Isle, as mentioned before.

Death Delver gives you Rebuke Undead and two Divination Spells so you can jump to Divine Oracle.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Pugwampy
You want to optimize healer . Give her the Healing Hand prestige class .

Where is this PrC from?


Originally Posted by Thurbane
You need to "get access" by checking with the DM if Sanctified spells are in play. Not every campaign is a kitchen-sink type.

So true, and stands repeating more often.


Originally Posted by Troacctid
I did say allowed source material.

Getting it allowed can sometimes be the trick.

.

[Dagroth]

The only "Healing Hand" PrC I've found is Homebrew.

[daremetoidareyo]

Combat Medic from Heroes of Battle is open to you.

If you need a Domain, Contemplative will give you one.

Seeker of the Misty Isle, as mentioned before.

Death Delver gives you Rebuke Undead and two Divination Spells so you can jump to Divine Oracle.

Dagroth just hooked you up 90% of the way. Imbued healing, + choose a domain whose effect you enjoy + combat medic = one more trick for your pony.

[Telonius]

The only "Healing Hand" PrC I've found is Homebrew.

There's a "Healing Hand of Mishakal" in Holy Orders of the Stars. Dragonlance material, but it has the official WotC logo on it.

[Pugwampy]

The only "Healing Hand" PrC I've found is Homebrew.

I never used homebrew in my life Bruh.

The book is called Ultimate Prestige Classes vol 1 . Page 124

[etrpgb]

I never used homebrew in my life Bruh.

I guess it depends what home are we talking about.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Pugwampy
The book is called Ultimate Prestige Classes vol 1 .

Ah.

Looks like this is 3.0 material from Mongoose Publishing. Can’t say I’ve ever heard of it.

[Pugwampy]

Ah.

Looks like this is 3.0 material from Mongoose Publishing. Can’t say I’ve ever heard of it.

My brain is currently toying with the idea of merging PathFinder Priest class with Healing Hand PrC .



It felt worse then an unoptimized Fighter. But I think the reason for this is that the Healer has very few options that directly contribute to defeating the opponents.

Wow ......

DM "so what role do you want to fill good player ? "
Player" I want to directly contribute to defeating opponents wise Dm "
DM "excellent we need those . Soo Barbarian ? Fighter ? Ranger ? "
Player " Healer "
DM ??? FISH SLAP !

[Thurbane]

I never used homebrew in my life Bruh.

The book is called Ultimate Prestige Classes vol 1 . Page 124

To be fair, well made homebrew is probably more balanced than a lot of Mongoose material...

Massive (https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwip16rXlcXSAhWEXLwKHVIuChAQFggZMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mongoosepublishing.com%2Fpdf% 2FRevised_Fighter.pdf&usg=AFQjCNF3jhACdLg7nU46-fctkUBcWe1kcw&sig2=wTm1QhffeoC8WEm9qwVBrA&bvm=bv.148747831,d.dGc), for instance (Quintessential Fighter): 1 feat to be permanently one size category larger. It's a nice boost for melee types, but hardly balanced compared to most official feats.

[ATHATH]

Say, isn't there a symbiont that adds a few spells known to its host?

[Thurbane]

Say, isn't there a symbiont that adds a few spells known to its host?

Fiendish Familiar: only helps Wizards, really. Does increase your casting stat by an effective +2 for spells/day. Although having a Neutral Evil outsider living in your stomach may pose a bit of a moral dilemma for the Healer class...

[Elkad]

I've used this homebrew/rework before.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?133118

Combat healing is actually worthwhile.

[Dunsparce]

a Bard can beat that pretty trivially with Words of Healing.

Never heard of this, and google searches keep leading to a 5th Edition 9th level Bard spell called Power Word: Heal and some differently-named Pathfinder stuff that doesn't look that powerful. As someone playing a bard/backup healer in a campaign, I really want to know where this is from.

To remain more on-topic, I played a Healer once and the DM made 2 changes: UMD is a class skill, and was allowed to qualify for Initiate Feats(Since I worshipped Pelor, than meant Radiant Fire for Scorching Ray and Various Summon Monsters(Fire Elemental Only)

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost
…a Bard can beat that pretty trivially with Words of Healing.


Originally Posted by Dunsparce
As someone playing a bard/backup healer in a campaign, I really want to know where this is from.

Yeah, I’d love to know the source on these Words of Healing as well.

They don’t seem to be 3.5 material, unless my google-fu is completely failing me.

[SirNibbles]

If I were to make a Healer, I'd go with a Wild Shape build so I could fly safely away from danger and dump physical stats.

Wild Shape Mystic Ranger 6 with Sword of the Arcane Order gets you 2/day Wild Shape and 3rd level Ranger and Sorc/Wiz spells. Stack Wisdom and Charisma and cast low level healing spells with the Cha bonus or cast helpful Healer/Ranger/Wiz buffs and area control during the rounds when healing isn't needed. Monk's Belt + Wilding Clasp gets you extra AC if you feel you need it.

Healer 3/Ranger 6/Contemplative 6/Combat Medic 5 gets you a wide assortment of spells (Healer/Ranger/Sorc/Wiz and 2 Domains of your choice) and a good caster level. Your targets also get temp HP every time you heal them which is nice. It won't be anything special but your teammates won't have to worry about dying. Decent enough for a Tier 3 campaign.

Edit: typo are -> area

[Dagroth]

I know there's a Healing Song Bard PrC from Dragon Magazine... can't recall it at the moment.

After some research, it's clear he meant the Healing Hymn ACF from Complete Champion... possibly with Words of Creation thrown in.

[Pugwampy]

If I were to make a Healer, I'd go with a Wild Shape build so I could fly safely away from danger and dump physical stats.


Well thats a bit dramatic . Wizards and Sorcerers are more fragile .

[Dagroth]

Well thats a bit dramatic . Wizards and Sorcerers are more fragile .

At least they can get (Greater) Mage Armor & Shield spells. Healers are stuck with worse armor choices than Druids.

[Thurbane]

At least they can get (Greater) Mage Armor & Shield spells. Healers are stuck with worse armor choices than Druids.

If you dip a class with heavy armor proficiency there's no reason you can't wear Dragonhide Full Plate; or Riverine Mechanus Gear, for that matter.

[Pugwampy]

At least they can get (Greater) Mage Armor & Shield spells. Healers are stuck with worse armor choices than Druids.

Sure mages can make themselves invincible by wasting their spells on armour and shields tricks . No better or worse than a healer touching herself back to full HP .

[weckar]

No better or worse than a healer touching herself back to full HP . Can this one go in the "unintentionally dirty" quotebook?

[Gemini476]

If you dip a class with heavy armor proficiency there's no reason you can't wear Dragonhide Full Plate; or Riverine Mechanus Gear, for that matter.

Would the non-proficiency penalty even matter much? You're a divine caster with a sapient mountable companion and fluff-based encouragement to be a pacifist. How many attack rolls were you planning on making?

Well, I guess the penalty to skill checks is a thing.

[ATHATH]

If you can pick up a way to prepare and cast Arcane spells that's independent of your home region, the Nexus Method feat (from Dragon Magazine #319) will let you convert prepared non-Conjuration spells into Summon Monster X spells.

[Troacctid]

At least they can get (Greater) Mage Armor & Shield spells. Healers are stuck with worse armor choices than Druids.
Healers have (Greater) Luminous Armor, which is significantly better than Mage Armor.

[Afgncaap5]

I dunno... I made a Healer as a joke while another character in a campaign was busy being dead (I didn't survive dinner in Castle Amber), and then I returned to the action and, uh... I dunno, I kinda felt like a superstar the whole time I was in the class?

I remember that I had the Mastery of Day and Night feat (with the DM substituting the Positive and Negative Energy Planes for Mabar and Irian) and I was effectively nullifying any damage the party took in any fight, sometimes before it happened thanks to that one healing spell introduced in the Miniatures Handbook (I think it was put into Spell Compendium later). The only direct enemies I could fight were undead (or once, a massive flesh golem built by a necromancer that apparently had a weakness to positive energy unlike the baseline flesh golem model), but when I *did* fight them they didn't last long.

I think I also took a feat from Dragonlance to become a single ability caster, and since this was, I think, a Mystara setting (in name only, really, but tonally along the right lines) I was admittedly dipping into multiple setting rules that theoretically weren't meant to interact.

Also, this is hardly something to expect in every campaign people play, but we found a town beset by great illnesses that also had rules against using magic. A Cleric with Skill Focus (Heal), the Healing Hands skill trick, and alchemical salve could've done the job just as well as I did in that scenario, of course, but it was hard not to feel like a good situation to be in.

The only downside I could come up with for being a Healer was that I couldn't spontaneously cast Cure spells. I generally had them prepared in advance anyway, though, and a back-up wand for the rare cases where I didn't have enough was a simple solution. (I used that wand maybe one time.)

[Thurbane]

Ranger 1/Healer 4/Swanmay 7/KotR 9

Healer CL 17 (20 if you take practiced spellcaster)
BAB +18

Throw a level of Dragonslayer in there if you want heavy armor.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Thurbane
Ranger 1/Healer 4/Swanmay 7/KotR 9

This is lovely. I’ve always wanted to use the Swanmay, but entering via druid seemed like a step down. This approach fits perfectly. I would play this in a heartbeat.

Not sure what KotR is, though.


Originally Posted by Thurbane
Throw a level of Dragonslayer in there if you want heavy armor.

Swanmay would seem to open up options from BoED, and as previously noted Greater Luminous Armor grants a +8 armor bonus.

[Thurbane]

Not sure what KotR is, though.

Knight of the Raven: from Expedition to Castle Ravenloft. Great PrC, and the Ravenloft fluff is fairly easy to ignore. 9/10 divine casting, full BAB, raven harrier (familair/companion type creature), access to the Sun domain, and a bunch of anti-undead abilities. Also gives Turn Undead and the abilities that opens up.

Main drawback is the relative "obscurity" of the class. You could sub another other full or medium BAB casting PrC and still get to BAB +16.

[Kantolin]

Throw a level of Dragonslayer in there if you want heavy armor.



Additionally, a healer who uses metal armor or any kind of shield is severely hampered. The armor of a healer is restricted by traditional oaths, not simply training. A healer knows how to wear light metal armor and could become proficient with medium or heavy armor, but wearing metal armor or bearing a shield would violate her oath and suppress her healer powers. Her ethos requires a certain vulnerability that allows her to more fully empathize with those in their care. A healer who uses prohibited armor is unable to cast healer spells or use any of her supernatural or spell-like class features while doing so and for 24 hours after the armor is taken off.


Now, the restriction does indeed explicitly stop metal armour and not the other armour types, and Thurbane's original suggestion of Dragonhide plate does work. :) Just making sure people know this is an additional restriction on the healer.

Personally, if I was forced to play a healer, I'd try to do things to get at turn undead. A lot of feats that involve healing require turning, which is a part of why healers are comparably poor healers, haha.

[Menzath]

Would it be evil to cast a corrupt spell on Willing allies, especially if you remove the damage? Cause if so a chained power leech on your party as you wand of lesser resto them could net you an insane Cha bonus. Get some slippers of battle dancing and gloves of heartfelt blows and you'll be crazy damage and heals.

[Afgncaap5]

Would it be evil to cast a corrupt spell on Willing allies, especially if you remove the damage? Cause if so a chained power leech on your party as you wand of lesser resto them could net you an insane Cha bonus. Get some slippers of battle dancing and gloves of heartfelt blows and you'll be crazy damage and heals.

I think that's evil, yes. Even if it's done with willing participants and seems to create effects "for the greater good", I think evil magic is said to actually call upon evil forces and do some sort of nebulously defined damage or corruption to the fabric of reality or something. A DM who waves that kind of thing might rule that it's not evil, though. A *fun* DM might say "try it and see." I mean, your road is paved with great intentions, so maybe it'll take you somewhere fun.

Case in point, even if you only use the army of skeletons for the purpose of building orphanages and helping little old puppy dogs to cross the street, you've still given evil a "win" by making the skeletons in the first place. (Now on the other hand, if you just happened to find the skeletons lying around somewhere, just sorta waiting to be told what to do, then sure, go on and make some orphans happy.)

[daremetoidareyo]

Would it be evil to cast a corrupt spell on Willing allies, especially if you remove the damage? Cause if so a chained power leech on your party as you wand of lesser resto them could net you an insane Cha bonus. Get some slippers of battle dancing and gloves of heartfelt blows and you'll be crazy damage and heals.

Not if you do it to food. Pump out that handle animal and profession chef skills and travel with as many wolverines as you can. Chain power leach the heck out of your trained wolverines. Eat them at dinner time. You might need to be hellbred.

[Gemini476]

Would it be evil to cast a corrupt spell on Willing allies, especially if you remove the damage? Cause if so a chained power leech on your party as you wand of lesser resto them could net you an insane Cha bonus. Get some slippers of battle dancing and gloves of heartfelt blows and you'll be crazy damage and heals.

Maybe not, but since the feat has "any evil alignment" as a prerequisite it's fairly off-limits.

[Menzath]

Corrupt spells are like sanctified spells, anyone can cast them. For a price.
No feat required.

[SirNibbles]

Ranger 1/Healer 4/Swanmay 7/KotR 9

Healer CL 17 (20 if you take practiced spellcaster)
BAB +18

Throw a level of Dragonslayer in there if you want heavy armor.

If you want full BAB just take Strength/War Domain. Now you can take classes with useful abilities.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Thurbane
Ranger 1/Healer 4/Swanmay 7/KotR 9


Originally Posted by SirNibbles
If you want full BAB just take Strength/War Domain. Now you can take classes with useful abilities.

The healer doesn’t gain access to domains. Neither do ranger or Swanmay, and the Knight of the Raven only gets the Sun domain.

Unless you were trying to suggest something else? Not sure I follow you here.

[Grim Reader]

Ranger 1/Healer 4/Swanmay 7/KotR 9

Healer CL 17 (20 if you take practiced spellcaster)
BAB +18

Throw a level of Dragonslayer in there if you want heavy armor.

Sad to say, Swanmay does not advance Healer casting. Just Ranger or Druid. I am sorry cause its a great build.

[Dagroth]

Sad to say, Swanmay does not advance Healer casting. Just Ranger or Druid. I am sorry cause its a great build.

That's one of the problems with 3.5 splat books. They rarely take other splat books into account. Even when they do, they only take one or two specific ones (like Complete Scoundrel touching on the Scout, Ninja & Swashbuckler classes).

That said, I personally would allow the Swanmay to advance Healer casting in such a build. I think it's silly that only a Ranger or Druid could have performed a service to help a Swanmay and be rewarded for it.

"Oh, thank you for saving the Swanmay Haven! Wait, you're a Paladin? Sorry, you get nothing."

[SirNibbles]

The healer doesn’t gain access to domains. Neither do ranger or Swanmay, and the Knight of the Raven only gets the Sun domain.

Unless you were trying to suggest something else? Not sure I follow you here.

There are plenty of full divine progression PrCs that grant domains and give other useful abilities.

The Competition, Fury, War, and Celestia Domains have Divine Power on their lists (if you really feel that you need to be using a weapon).

[Menzath]

Your weapon should be touch attacks with gloves of heartfelt blows. Max that Cha!

[Ellrin]

I think that's evil, yes. Even if it's done with willing participants and seems to create effects "for the greater good", I think evil magic is said to actually call upon evil forces and do some sort of nebulously defined damage or corruption to the fabric of reality or something. A DM who waves that kind of thing might rule that it's not evil, though. A *fun* DM might say "try it and see." I mean, your road is paved with great intentions, so maybe it'll take you somewhere fun.

Case in point, even if you only use the army of skeletons for the purpose of building orphanages and helping little old puppy dogs to cross the street, you've still given evil a "win" by making the skeletons in the first place. (Now on the other hand, if you just happened to find the skeletons lying around somewhere, just sorta waiting to be told what to do, then sure, go on and make some orphans happy.)

That just sounds like quitter talk to me.

https://s2.postimg.org/85tleutft/image.png

[Thurbane]

Sad to say, Swanmay does not advance Healer casting. Just Ranger or Druid. I am sorry cause its a great build.

Huh. Well there you go. That's what I get for looking at the table and not reading the text.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Grim Reader
Sad to say, Swanmay does not advance Healer casting. Just Ranger or Druid.


Originally Posted by Thurbane
That's what I get for looking at the table and not reading the text.

Well, I made the same mistake, simply assuming the table’s generous wording would cover other divine spellcasters. Go figure.

That said, if mystic ranger is available, then Swanmay would provide fourth-level ranger spells, which maybe isn’t too bad. This makes healer more of a digression than a backbone of the build, but Versatile Spellcaster might help on the healer side.



—And here’s another question about the healer, which I don’t think has been brought up yet. At second level the healer gains Skill Focus (heal), but if she already has it, then “she may choose a different one.”

There are no restrictions specified for the replacement feat. Does this open up any options?

[Rerednaw]

I'd grant Touch of Healing as a bonus feat for the class. Really for anyone with healing secondary it's a pretty good deal for those multi-encounter adventuring days when u have to conserve spells.

[Troacctid]

There are no restrictions specified for the replacement feat. Does this open up any options?
You can use it to delay an early feat until later—for example, take Skill Focus at level 1 so you can get Exotic Weapon Proficiency with the bonus feat at level 2 when you have the BAB prerequisite.
If you are a human, you can become a Dragonborn and keep your racial bonus feat by ditching the Skill Focus instead.
It's great for an Aelfborn who takes several levels in something else before multiclassing as a Healer. Although why you would want to play a Healer with a -10 penalty to Wisdom, I can't say.

[Menzath]

Why didn't I notice earlier, geomancer's spell versatility let's us cast any spell as a "healer" spell.
Beats that "only to spells of the healing subschool that she casts as a healer" clause.

Also quick question, can we take bard ACF's with prestige bard?

[Thurbane]

Healer 8/Knight of the Raven 3/Ruby Knight Vindicator 9: pick up the Devoted Mind maneuver and stance through feats. You can be LG and follow Wee Jas, I believe.

Although worshipping Wee Jas and taking a PrC that focuses on destroying undead is a bit...off.

[Dagroth]

—And here’s another question about the healer, which I don’t think has been brought up yet. At second level the healer gains Skill Focus (heal), but if she already has it, then “she may choose a different one.”

There are no restrictions specified for the replacement feat. Does this open up any options?

The idea is, if you picked up Skill Focus (heal) at first level, then you could pick up a feat that you couldn't get at first level... like Power Attack, or some other feat that requires BAB +1.

It's just like if you pick up the Planning Domain and you already have Extend Spell... you get to pick a different feat instead.

[Menzath]

The idea is, if you picked up Skill Focus (heal) at first level, then you could pick up a feat that you couldn't get at first level... like Power Attack, or some other feat that requires BAB +1.

It's just like if you pick up the Planning Domain and you already have Extend Spell... you get to pick a different feat instead.

I think what he is getting at is the
"May choose a different one."
With no following "for which you qualify" clause or some such. Just an open, blanket, choose a feat.... From anywhere.

[Troacctid]

It doesn't need to say you have to qualify for it, since that is the general rule for feats, which will apply absent any specific exception.