Some People Just Want to Watch the World Burn; An Overpowered Pyromancer build

[PeteNutButter]

Been away a while, but it's time to make a new character, this time UA was allowed so I figured I'd drum up something nasty. Furthermore we rolled stats, always a mistake. Having rolled an 18, I intended to demonstrate that mistake (But will probably not, because /notfun for anyone). Full disclosure, this is rather rules dependent on UA content which is poorly written so subject to DM nerfing. I'll discuss further.
The Build Core and Mechanics
Classes: Sorcerer (Phoenix) 1/Wizard (Lore Mastery) 2/ Warlock (Undying Light) 1> Sorcerer the rest.
Race: Yuan Ti Pureblood (from Volo's)
Stats:
We rolled (mistake I know), but if you're point buy, just max cha > con, and be sure to have a 13 int:
Str: 11
Dex: 14
Con: 16
Int: 14
Wis: 13
Cha: 20

Between Phoenix sorcerer and undying light you can add Chax2 to damage of fire spells cast on your turn. Lore Mastery Wizard allows you to make any damage spell a fire spell.
Thematically he is going for a Fire Salamander type look and feel.
Cast Fiery Magic Missile and deal 1d4+6 damage per missile.

Fighting a tough foe? Spend a round Bestowing Curse with your familiar (target weak save via lore mastery) for 1d8 extra fire damage, and Phoenix form up. The following round your magic missiles will hit for 1d4+1 +5 from phoenix +5 from undying light + 1d8 curse and + 5 Phoenix. That's an average damage of 23 per missile (another 5 if your DM lets Undying Light work with the curse damage).

At level 6 you can shoot out a level 3 magic missile (5 missiles) dealing an average damage of 115. Your opponent's only defense is to be immune to fire (take elemental affinity for resistant foes) or to cast shield/counterspell, which is why you make sure you have your own counterspell in the bag. By the time you have ninth level spells your magic missile puts out 280.5 fire damage. Pew Pew.
As mentioned the Undying Light is pretty poorly worded. My interpretation is as literally as possible IMO: Fire damage bonus applies to the spells only when you cast it (thus I wasn't applying it to my fire curse, but the argument for it could be made), but does apply individually for spells that deal multiple instances of fire damage, such as a scorching ray or magic missile. I note the exact wording on the level 6 sorcerer errata for contrast. If your DM rules that it only works once per spell than it might not be worth taking the warlock level, and can be dumped without destroying the overall build. Magic missile would still do an obscene 17 damage per missile while in phoenix form.

As for the multiple iterations of damage for magic missile, according to the sage advice, that is the somewhat murky consensus on how it should work, but if your DM says no to that you can always cast scorching ray for considerable damage which would also allow you to put a burning Hex (Hex that deals fire damage) on foes.

If your DM throws every possible rules nerf at the build your Scorching Rays on a Hexed(fire) target will still deal 3d6+10 per ray, 21 damage per ray (with elemental affinity). At 7th level if all your rays hit you'll be toasting a foe for 105 average damage.
Don't forget to quicken a Firebolt for a little free extra damage.

If you're feeling melee inclined take a level of Hexblade instead of Undying Light and use GFB to put some nasty stacking of cha on melee.

Eldritch Blast can't be made fire as it's a cantrip, but if you make your hex fire damage, you can stack some nasty blasts and quickened blasts. Obviously take 2 levels of warlock if that is the intent.

AoE effects can be really nasty if you adding Cha x2 to all targets.

EDIT: If Undying Light Warlock works as written then feel free to throw out radiant damage Magic Missiles when confronted with fire immune foes.

Happy Burning!

[jaappleton]

Congrats....

You've ruined the fun for every other character. You're doing so much more damage than everyone else that you've made them feel inferior.

[King539]

AAAAAAND... You fight a red dragon.

[Mith]

With fire elementals that heal from fire damage.

[PeteNutButter]

Like I said, I won't actually do it... I just enjoy the theorycrafting. If I did, I'd be surprised to meet a single foe that wasn't immune to fire for the rest of the game.

My DM knows me. I'd be asking him all these rules clarifications and explaining all this to him.

Three weeks into the adventure the other PCs would note, "Huh, strange we've been fighting nothing but fire elementals. It doesn't really fit the undead theme of the campaign, but /shrug."


AAAAAAND... You fight a red dragon.
I did forget to mention that if Undying Warlock is allowed to work as written then there is nothing stopping you from blasting said dragon with Radiant Magic Missiles for 1d4+6 per missile.


Congrats....

You've ruined the fun for every other character. You're doing so much more damage than everyone else that you've made them feel inferior.

#Storyofmylife

[Specter]

I'm glad UA is UA.

[Sir cryosin]

One I'm not a expert but I do believe you cannot add your Christmas modifier more than once. And why don't you just play the pyromancer from Magic the Gathering PDF that just came out the other week it's actually really good that seems pretty balanced.

[Dr.Samurai]

And why don't you just play the pyromancer from Magic the Gathering PDF that just came out the other week it's actually really good that seems pretty balanced.
He's specifically attempting to deal as much damage with fire spells as he can. And for that he is using the mechanics of several archetypes here. I think for this specific purpose, the phoenix sorcerer works better (but I'm not sure).

Alternatively, he might not know about the other one :smallredface:.

[King539]

One I'm not a expert but I do believe you cannot add your Christmas modifier more than once. And why don't you just play the pyromancer from Magic the Gathering PDF that just came out the other week it's actually really good that seems pretty balanced.

I assume you mean Charisma. :smalltongue:. This is an optimized build, and the Pyromancer doesn't contribute to the mechanical power any more than Phoenix sorcerer. In fact, it's weaker.

[Sans.]

Damnit, UA.

[jaappleton]

Since the +Cha to damage is all from different features, it does, indeed, stack together in this way.

[BiPolar]

I'm glad UA is UA.


Damnit, UA.
I'm not sure UA is to blame :) they make it pretty clear that it's both user test AND not multiclass balanced.

It's one thing to accept UA, but to then allow multiclass is just silly.

[tieren]

Phoenix Sorcerer can only do that for one minute per day.

[Sir cryosin]

I don't care about how much damage you can do I would say the pyromancer for it from Magic the Gathering PDF is superior because with their 18th level ability all fire damage ignores resistance and even damages creatures that have immunity to fire damage.

[Dr.Samurai]

I don't care about how much damage you can do I would say the pyromancer for it from Magic the Gathering PDF is superior because with their 18th level ability all fire damage ignores resistance and even damages creatures that have immunity to fire damage.
Sure, but that's outside the scope of what this build aims to do. Against many enemies that lack resistance or immunity to fire, this build will deal much more damage than a straight sorcerer (admittedly, once a day).

He's not using fire just to use fire. He's specifically looking to stack damage boosts to fire.

[PeteNutButter]

I'm not sure UA is to blame :) they make it pretty clear that it's both user test AND not multiclass balanced.

It's one thing to accept UA, but to then allow multiclass is just silly.

Very true, but also what a cop out on the part of the content creators... I break these things as I read them.

All that aside, so much of it is very poorly written from a rules perspective. The Undying Light is particularly bad. To be fair it was an earlier one, and I think they may have gotten better with it.

"...when you cast a spell that deals radiant damage or fire
damage, you add your Charisma modifier to that damage."

Without even multiclassing, it is vague using the spells given. Flaming Sphere, which is on the spell list of this subclass has unclear interactions with this ability. Does it do the bonus cha damage the turn you cast it? Never? Or every time you hit someone with it? Why? Which makes the most sense as balance? etc

As has been mentioned countless times on RAW discussions, English can be a vague language open to multiple interpretations. In these cases we just need like another sentence, or just a better one.

[Naanomi]

Not a volo's aasimar for more damage?

[PeteNutButter]

Not a volo's aasimar for more damage?

Hah! That was the original build. Just thought the flaming snake would be cooler.

[8wGremlin]

Sleepless drow jalapeno coffee pyromancer?

[Haldir]

Phoenix Sorcerer can only do that for one minute per day.

It's a bigger sorcerer investment, but a Red Dragon Sorc 6 is a stronger version of this that comes on a little later.

[PeteNutButter]

It's a bigger sorcerer investment, but a Red Dragon Sorc 6 is a stronger version of this that comes on a little later.

The sorcerer errata specifies that it only works for one damage roll.

[Haldir]

The sorcerer errata specifies that it only works for one damage roll.

There's no errata for the UA, but you should probably assume that the way Elemental Affinity works is probably the same as the Radiant Soul. I very much doubt you'd see play at any table that allowed a level 1 ability to trump a level 6 ability so thoroughly. But who knows?

[PeteNutButter]

There's no errata for the UA, but you should probably assume that the way Elemental Affinity works is probably the same as the Radiant Soul. I very much doubt you'd see play at any table that allowed a level 1 ability to trump a level 6 ability so thoroughly. But who knows?

Oh I don't disagree with you. It makes no sense, but if you read the OP, part of my point was to show how poorly balanced UA content is. First level in a class should never just let you add an ability mod to damage (maybe replace like with shillelagh, but never add). It just begs for a one level dip.

At least the Phoenix is limited to a minute a day, but it also extends to all sources of fire damage, not just spells. If this legal, DMs have to now worry about giving out flaming weapons if anyone in the party has a good cha score. My current AL paladin has a flaming halberd from the opal rune and PAM, I'd totally dip Phoenix if it were legal. Solid damage increase for a minute a day, plus all the normal paladorc ablities.

[Byke]

We house ruled the Sorcerer errata as dumb and ignore it :)

[Haldir]

We house ruled the Sorcerer errata as dumb and ignore it :)

As did we. I'm currently playing a Hexblade 1/Red Dragon Sorc 6, which is why I suggested it for you. Given the additional HP and AC from Dragon, I think if you're going to use the GFB spam, Dragon is the superior option still. Phoenix is fun, but I don't like the one use ability. I don't like the one use option on the Hexblade either, but CHA to damage and attack is too good.

[Worthingtonian]

A couple of things

1) Sorcerer's don't get Bestow Curse, so with the build you're proposing you wouldn't have it. You would have to go 5 levels into Wizard to get it. And if you're going 5 levels into Wizard you should go one more because...

2) You can actually boost your damage to a ridiculous extent with the 6th level Lore Wizard metagic. +2d10 on each missile, which on your ninth level missiles is an extra 12 damage per missile, 22d10 total. So a 9th level Magic Missile with Bestow Curse and Alchemical Casting has you dealing 11d4+11+22d10+11d8+55+110 for an average of 374 damage.
EDIT: You can only apply the 2d10 once per target. Still works against 11 targets though. I still think 18 Wiz is the way to go though.

3) If you're going to 6 for Lore Wizard...why not just go 18? Phoenix sorcery doesn't give us much beyond first level, and with this build you're still functionally an 18th level wizard, which *would* get you bestow curse, which mitigates your one-trick pony problem a lot, gives you much smoother levelling, and you can still throw out even more obscene fire magic missiles than your 17th level sorcerer, as well as the scorching rays + hex, and better spell slot recovery with arcane recovery. What you lose in metamagic you get back with Alchemical Casting, the other Lore Wizard abilities, much greater flexibility as a caster and more spells, and Spell Mastery.

It's definitely pretty MAD though, since you wanna pump CHA and then INT. You're going to be very squishy seeing as you'd probably have to dump either DEX or CON a little bit, unless you rolled obscenely well.
But who needs those when you can hit with spells from a mile away lol.

[RumoCrytuf]

Been away a while, but it's time to make a new character, this time UA was allowed so I figured I'd drum up something nasty. Furthermore we rolled stats, always a mistake. Having rolled an 18, I intended to demonstrate that mistake (But will probably not, because /notfun for anyone). Full disclosure, this is rather rules dependent on UA content which is poorly written so subject to DM nerfing. I'll discuss further.
The Build Core and Mechanics
Classes: Sorcerer (Phoenix) 1/Wizard (Lore Mastery) 2/ Warlock (Undying Light) 1> Sorcerer the rest.
Race: Yuan Ti Pureblood (from Volo's)
Stats:
We rolled (mistake I know), but if you're point buy, just max cha > con, and be sure to have a 13 int:
Str: 11
Dex: 14
Con: 16
Int: 14
Wis: 13
Cha: 20

Between Phoenix sorcerer and undying light you can add Chax2 to damage of fire spells cast on your turn. Lore Mastery Wizard allows you to make any damage spell a fire spell.
Thematically he is going for a Fire Salamander type look and feel.
Cast Fiery Magic Missile and deal 1d4+6 damage per missile.

Fighting a tough foe? Spend a round Bestowing Curse with your familiar (target weak save via lore mastery) for 1d8 extra fire damage, and Phoenix form up. The following round your magic missiles will hit for 1d4+1 +5 from phoenix +5 from undying light + 1d8 curse and + 5 Phoenix. That's an average damage of 23 per missile (another 5 if your DM lets Undying Light work with the curse damage).

At level 6 you can shoot out a level 3 magic missile (5 missiles) dealing an average damage of 115. Your opponent's only defense is to be immune to fire (take elemental affinity for resistant foes) or to cast shield/counterspell, which is why you make sure you have your own counterspell in the bag. By the time you have ninth level spells your magic missile puts out 280.5 fire damage. Pew Pew.
As mentioned the Undying Light is pretty poorly worded. My interpretation is as literally as possible IMO: Fire damage bonus applies to the spells only when you cast it (thus I wasn't applying it to my fire curse, but the argument for it could be made), but does apply individually for spells that deal multiple instances of fire damage, such as a scorching ray or magic missile. I note the exact wording on the level 6 sorcerer errata for contrast. If your DM rules that it only works once per spell than it might not be worth taking the warlock level, and can be dumped without destroying the overall build. Magic missile would still do an obscene 17 damage per missile while in phoenix form.

As for the multiple iterations of damage for magic missile, according to the sage advice, that is the somewhat murky consensus on how it should work, but if your DM says no to that you can always cast scorching ray for considerable damage which would also allow you to put a burning Hex (Hex that deals fire damage) on foes.

If your DM throws every possible rules nerf at the build your Scorching Rays on a Hexed(fire) target will still deal 3d6+10 per ray, 21 damage per ray (with elemental affinity). At 7th level if all your rays hit you'll be toasting a foe for 105 average damage.
Don't forget to quicken a Firebolt for a little free extra damage.

If you're feeling melee inclined take a level of Hexblade instead of Undying Light and use GFB to put some nasty stacking of cha on melee.

Eldritch Blast can't be made fire as it's a cantrip, but if you make your hex fire damage, you can stack some nasty blasts and quickened blasts. Obviously take 2 levels of warlock if that is the intent.

AoE effects can be really nasty if you adding Cha x2 to all targets.

EDIT: If Undying Light Warlock works as written then feel free to throw out radiant damage Magic Missiles when confronted with fire immune foes.

Happy Burning!

I am going to do this for my pyromaniac character. He will be a danger to himself as much as everyone else! >:D