[3.5] Clockwork Steel Dragon

[Thurbane]

OK, so for some odd reason I'm looking at making a Clockwork Steel Dragon (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20040328a) as a monster/NPC in my game.

The Clockwork template is from Green Ronin's Advanced Bestiary (http://greenroninstore.com/products/advanced-bestiary-for-3rd-era-pdf): I was hoping to avoid 3rd party, but it seems to be the only template that changes type to Construct but leaves special abilities more-or-less intact.

Shooting for CR 10-12. He will be LN, with a capital "L". He will be very inflexible, and will either be an ally or enemy depending on the actions of the party.

Just wondering what feats to allocate (to go with the whole clockwork theme); also possibly gear and skill allocation.

Trying to keep as "official" 3.5 as possible.

Cheers - T

http://i68.tinypic.com/357lmo8.jpg

[One Step Two]

The Effigy Template from Complete Arcane, turns the base creature into a construct, that might be what you're after Thrubane. A +1 CR for +4 Str, -2 Dex, and a host of construct goodies. It even looks like the real creature, and needs a DC 20 spot check for people to realize it's clockwork.

Edit: Be sure to hit it with an Awaken Construct spell for it's Mental Stats.

Edit 2: Oh, it will lose it's breath weapon though... sorry about that.

[DrMotives]

Edit: Be sure to hit it with an Awaken Construct spell for it's Mental Stats.


You can't restore the effigy's mind with Awaken Construct, that only works on things with 2 arms and 2 legs. Both the SS and the Spell Compendium version require it be a humanoid-shaped construct.

[One Step Two]

You can't restore the effigy's mind with Awaken Construct, that only works on things with 2 arms and 2 legs. Both the SS and the Spell Compendium version require it be a humanoid-shaped construct.

How odd. The Target for the spell is simply One Construct, it doesn't mention that it needs to be humanoid until the description, that one should go up in the rules dysfunction thread. Is that an issue through? The spell description is: "This spell awakens a humanoid-shaped construct to humanlike sentience."
Wouldn't that just mean it grants a Dragonoid-shape construct Dragonlike sentience? It's still a valid target: "One Construct."

[Technetium43]

Effigy loses all special abilities regardless of whether it's awakened or not, which is explicitly not the goal.

[One Step Two]

Effigy loses all special abilities regardless of whether it's awakened or not, which is explicitly not the goal.

Only those that use the creature's Con score for the saving throw DC.

[DrMotives]

Only those that use the creature's Con score for the saving throw DC.

So, you're saying a zombie dragon effigy can use a breath weapon, just not an effigy of a living dragon. About that dysfunctional rules thread...

[One Step Two]

So, you're saying a zombie dragon effigy can use a breath weapon, just not an effigy of a living dragon. About that dysfunctional rules thread...

I know, right?

The other thing you can do, is apply the Soulfused Construct template from Magic of Incarnium (before using Awaken Construct), to give the Effigy the Living Construct Subtype, and a Con score for it's breath weapon back.

[Venger]

So, you're saying a zombie dragon effigy can use a breath weapon, just not an effigy of a living dragon. About that dysfunctional rules thread...

no need to rope effigy into it, zombie dragon already has a breath weapon. you actually couldn't if you wanted to since you can't apply the effigy template to an undead creature.


I know, right?

The other thing you can do, is apply the Soulfused Construct template from Magic of Incarnium (before using Awaken Construct), to give the Effigy the Living Construct Subtype, and a Con score for it's breath weapon back.

That's some clever maneuvering.

While it's definitely in keeping with things to give you breath weapon back in that case (and I'd advise as much) I don't know if the rules technically allow it. it doesn't say you lose attacks like poison and whatnot as long as you don't have a con, just that you never get them in the first place, so I'm not sure soulfused would actually let you do that.

[Thurbane]

I had looked at Effigy, but Clockwork is a superior template for my purposes anyhow. Don't have to jump through hoops for the creature to keep its special abilities intact.

A Clockwork Adult Steel Dragon comes in at CR 10; 19 HD; Str 25 Dex 14 Con -- Int 16 Wis 15 Cha 12

That means 7 feats and 110 skill points to play with. On the plus side, all of it's former class skills remain class skills, plus any skill it's creator had 5 or more ranks in (hello UMD!).

[One Step Two]

no need to rope effigy into it, zombie dragon already has a breath weapon. you actually couldn't if you wanted to since you can't apply the effigy template to an undead creature.

That's some clever maneuvering.

While it's definitely in keeping with things to give you breath weapon back in that case (and I'd advise as much) I don't know if the rules technically allow it. it doesn't say you lose attacks like poison and whatnot as long as you don't have a con, just that you never get them in the first place, so I'm not sure soulfused would actually let you do that.

Well, the entry in Complete Arcane States: Special Attacks: An effigy loses all supernatural special attacks, spell-like abilities, and extraordinary special attacks for which a target’s saving throw is based on the effigy’s Constitution (since the creature no longer has a Con score).

Since it loses the special attacks et al, due to no longer having a con score, what happens when that is no-longer true?

It's a murky bit of RAW interpretation true, but I think an Incarnium User with Craft Construct creating Breath weapon capable clockwork Dragons is too cool not to use!


I had looked at Effigy, but Clockwork is a superior template for my purposes anyhow. Don't have to jump through hoops for the creature to keep its special abilities intact.

No problem, I suppose I was just trying to be clever for the sake of being clever.

Also, just as an idea in general, if you want to provide said clock work dragon with a Mechanical cohort, Zelekhut has an ECL of 15, which means with the leadership feat he can have a pretty powerful underling that is every bit as Lawful Neutral as he is.

[Thurbane]

Also, just as an idea in general, if you want to provide said clock work dragon with a Mechanical cohort, Zelekhut has an ECL of 15, which means with the leadership feat he can have a pretty powerful underling that is every bit as Lawful Neutral as he is.

Cool - that would be a good fit.

I'm thinking maybe pick up some Maneuvers and a Stance using the feats?

What I'm looking at so far (rough draft):

1 Multiattack
3 Ability Focus (breath weapon)
6 Martial Study (emerald razor)
9 Flyby Attack
12 Martial Stance (pearl of back doubt)
15 Martial Study (ruby nightmare blade)
18 Martial Study (disrupting blow)

[Gandariel]

Sounds pretty cool! Would you mind sending me the final statblock so i can add this to my steampunky adventure location thing? ( link in my sig)

[Thurbane]

Sounds pretty cool! Would you mind sending me the final statblock so i can add this to my steampunky adventure location thing? ( link in my sig)

Sure thing. Should have ot done in the next couple of days.

[ShurikVch]

Dungeon #091 have Half-Machine template - it doesn't turn you into Construct, but also doesn't penalize any abilities

If you really need Construct type, there are Dust-Stuffed in Explorer's Handbook, Captured One and Half-Golem in Monster Manual II

[WhamBamSam]

That means 7 feats and 110 skill points to play with. On the plus side, all of it's former class skills remain class skills, plus any skill it's creator had 5 or more ranks in (hello UMD!).UMD is always a class skill for True Dragon RHD. So you don't even need it to be a skill for the creator, and could conceivably design the creator to have ranks in something else if you wanted another class skill.

[Thurbane]

UMD is always a class skill for True Dragon RHD. So you don't even need it to be a skill for the creator, and could conceivably design the creator to have ranks in something else if you wanted another class skill.

Cool; so if I'm reading correctly, all true dragons get these skills:
- Concentration
- Diplomacy
- Escape Artist
- Intimidate
- Knowledge (any)
- Listen
- Search
- Sense Motive
- Spot
- Use Magic Device

...and steel dragon also gets the following:
- Bluff
- Craft (any)
- Profession (any)

What kind of craft skill would be most appropriate for repairing clockwork devices and/or constructs? The template mentions craft (armorer) and craft (weapon-smith) to create the creature, but that doesn't seem quite right to me...

[Coidzor]

Cool; so if I'm reading correctly, all true dragons get these skills:
- Concentration
- Diplomacy
- Escape Artist
- Intimidate
- Knowledge (any)
- Listen
- Search
- Sense Motive
- Spot
- Use Magic Device

...and steel dragon also gets the following:
- Bluff
- Craft (any)
- Profession (any)

What kind of craft skill would be most appropriate for repairing clockwork devices and/or constructs? The template mentions craft (armorer) and craft (weapon-smith) to create the creature, but that doesn't seem quite right to me...

Craft(Mechanical)? Craft(Clockwork)? Craft(Gearage)?

I'd go with max ranks in Concentration, Sense Motive, Spot, and Listen; good ranks in Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Knowledges; and enough to get by with UMD.

For fluffy fun, I'd probably go with Craft(Mechanical) and Profession(Barrister) or similar.

[Venger]

What kind of craft skill would be most appropriate for repairing clockwork devices and/or constructs? The template mentions craft (armorer) and craft (weapon-smith) to create the creature, but that doesn't seem quite right to me...

you could go with metalworking if those don't grab you.

[ATHATH]

Just gonna drop this here:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?303204-The-Truest-of-the-True-A-Handbook-to-non-Kobold-Dragons-(WIP)

I recommend being a Wyrm of War and dipping Warblade for some Maneuvers.