PDA

View Full Version : Suggestions: Goblin Brd npcs



Yechezkiel
2007-07-25, 02:53 AM
I've made goblins one of the main antagonist races in a game I've been running for about a month now. It's been going well, the PCs all thoroughly hate the vicious little guys (they're more pointy nosed and demonic, akin to M:tG artwork in my game).

The PCs are all lvl 3, about to turn 4, so I have to crank up the challenge of goblins. Before I got the game underway I came up with the notion to make a few goblins per gang bards, thinking of them as tribal noise-makers that rile up the crew.

I'm about to introduce them in the next encounters and wanted to get some feedback. Anything from feats, spells, and weapon of choice, to fluff/descriptions you think would add to the goblins.

I'm hoping the Inspire Courage +1 will help put some hurt on the hapless PC adventurers. For spells I'm thinking Daze, Detect Magic, Message and a cantrip I'm calling Tindertwig for now (more or less Produce Flame for 1 point of damage). (1d4) Shortbows seem their style too. I'm going to try to keep em alive and in the back as long as possible so they really becoming annoying.

Hallavast
2007-07-25, 03:12 AM
Your bards are pretty sound... keep them in the back and/or behind some kind of cover of protection if you want them to live long. Goblins (as you must know by now) are masters of stealth... so spells that give them better hiding circumstances are good too. Waging a war of attrition against the party may be all you need to really frustrate them... try to get them to exhaust their resources and use hit and run to keep the fight interesting...

On another note... have you considered using adepts for your goblin leaders or shaman types? They make for surprisingly versatile NPC spellcasters.

JackMage666
2007-07-25, 03:14 AM
So long as they're not alone, they'll be effective the same way a PC is - Support.

The Goblin Bards arn't going to be all tha effect (-2 Cha), but it won't matter much... Like I said, as long as they support your other baddies, they'll serve their purpose.

HydwenPrydain
2007-07-25, 03:16 AM
I'd suggest one slightly higher level bard, rather than numerous lower-level ones. Since inspire bonuses don't stack, a third level bard can give a better bonus through feats & spells, have the HP to maintain it even if he takes some fire, and can support his tribe better with spells.

With melodic casting he can cast and inspire courage at the same time. Then throw on inspirational boost as one of his first level spells, plus grease or tasha's hideous laughter are very nice support spells for a horde of goblins and he can use them while inspiring courage, so I would think about giving him that. Daze is easily the best cantrip for this sort of role.

If you make him third level, song of the heart combined with inspirational boost will make his inspire courage +3 which should bring even grotty little goblins up to being somewhat of a challenge to 4th level pcs. Then he can knock someone out (probably) for 3 rounds with Tasha's, and daze various party members, making them lose actions while boosting the goblins.

nerulean
2007-07-25, 08:12 AM
I'd suggest one slightly higher level bard, rather than numerous lower-level ones. Since inspire bonuses don't stack, a third level bard can give a better bonus through feats & spells, have the HP to maintain it even if he takes some fire, and can support his tribe better with spells.

With melodic casting he can cast and inspire courage at the same time. Then throw on inspirational boost as one of his first level spells, plus grease or tasha's hideous laughter are very nice support spells for a horde of goblins and he can use them while inspiring courage, so I would think about giving him that. Daze is easily the best cantrip for this sort of role.

If you make him third level, song of the heart combined with inspirational boost will make his inspire courage +3 which should bring even grotty little goblins up to being somewhat of a challenge to 4th level pcs. Then he can knock someone out (probably) for 3 rounds with Tasha's, and daze various party members, making them lose actions while boosting the goblins.

I definitely agree with having a single bard rather than a group of them, unless you use particularly large groups of goblins and need the extra area that scattering a couple of bards around would give. Song of the Heart (Eberron campaign setting) is a yes, as is Inspirational boost.

There are a couple of places I'd disagree, though. Melodic casting is great, but you still have to spend a standard action each round concentrating on inspire courage and the bard doesn't get all that many swift action spells. You'd be better off with Lingering Song (CAd) which means the other goblins gain the benefit for ten rounds after he stops the performance, so he can go once and then proceed to cast.

Additionally, if there are no other casters around, take Silent image for all sorts of cunning uses. There's a thread going currently with loads of ideas for it. Also have a look at the masterwork drums in CAd to increase the bonus to damage rolls at the cost of the bonus to saves against fear.

Nifft
2007-07-25, 12:22 PM
Melodic casting is great, but you still have to spend a standard action each round concentrating on inspire courage and the bard doesn't get all that many swift action spells.


Some bardic music abilities require concentration, which means the bard must take a standard action each round to maintain the ability. Even while using bardic music that doesn’t require concentration, a bard cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), spell trigger (such as wands), or command word.

Only three Bardic Music effects require concentration, and Inspire Courage isn't one of them.

Cheers, -- N

giblina
2007-07-25, 12:46 PM
I stuck a bard in with a group of troglodytes and it really messed up the party.

The inspire courage helped the NPCs a lot, and apart from that the bard kept distracting them with a bunch of stupid stuff level 0 / 1 bard spells.

He succeeded in casting cause fear at someone, he distracted someone else using "message" (the halfling heard a whisper in his ear that "I'm a friend, I can help you. Come into the house to your south, I can't be seen") and the halfling went wandering out of the fight to see who it was.

He also used dancing lights to make that floating humanoid shaped light and the cleric started trying to turn it / beat on it.

The party won the fight, but having the bard there definately made it tougher.

Draz74
2007-07-25, 02:05 PM
Only three Bardic Music effects require concentration, and Inspire Courage isn't one of them.

Cheers, -- N

Yeah, it's the Bard class's best-kept secret: they can keep doing most of their bard songs while acting normally on other actions (such as fighting). Just not spellcasting or using wands, scrolls, etc., without a feat.

In fact, technically the RAW doesn't stop them from beginning an additional bard song without ceasing the first song. They can sing two songs at once, by my interpretation of the rules! (Although I've heard there's a feat that lets them sing two songs at once, which makes me suspect the authors don't agree with my interpretation.)

Nifft
2007-07-25, 02:19 PM
In fact, technically the RAW doesn't stop them from beginning an additional bard song without ceasing the first song. They can sing two songs at once, by my interpretation of the rules! (Although I've heard there's a feat that lets them sing two songs at once, which makes me suspect the authors don't agree with my interpretation.) So long as the two uses of Bardic Music didn't both require Concentration, and so long as they used different (compatible) Perform ranks, I'd probably allow it.

E.g. Inspire Courage with Perform(drum) in round 1, then Countersong in round 2 with Perform(oratory).

Two different Perform skills is a big investment, even for a smart Bard. :)

Cheers, -- N

giblina
2007-07-25, 02:37 PM
You don't need two different perform skills.

When you inspire performance and then stop concentrating, it's not that the song is magically continuing to play without you.

Rather, it's just that your companions stay inspired for an additional 5 rounds.

It's well within RAW to inspire courage on round 1, and countersong on round 2 (while people are still benefitting from the inspire courage).

BardicDuelist
2007-07-25, 02:37 PM
I would use inspire courage, inspirational boost, masterwork drums (made from the shields of fallen enemies for flavor), and song of heart to make them a real pain in the bum.

For a Prestige Class when you reach higher levels, try War Chanter from CW. I never liked it for a player character (we don't lead a lot of armies, and that is what they are best at), but it is great for an NPC to make the encounter more difficult.

Jibar
2007-07-25, 02:39 PM
Have you got Unearthed Arcana?
The Savage Bard variant sounds perfect for your goblins.
All the powers of a bard, but with the evilness of a goblin and the uncouth nature of a barabarian.

Yuki Akuma
2007-07-25, 02:58 PM
You don't need two different perform skills.

When you inspire performance and then stop concentrating, it's not that the song is magically continuing to play without you.

Rather, it's just that your companions stay inspired for an additional 5 rounds.

It's well within RAW to inspire courage on round 1, and countersong on round 2 (while people are still benefitting from the inspire courage).

Yes, but with Inspire Courage, you can keep playing for as long as you want, and once you stop playing, the effects last for five more rounds.

And you don't concentrate on Inspire Courage at all. That's the point. It doesn't stop you from using another Bardic Music ability while you play it.

giblina
2007-07-25, 03:11 PM
Ohhhhhh, I see what you're saying now.


Even while using bardic music that doesn’t require concentration, a bard cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), spell trigger (such as wands), or command word.

Other bardic music isn't on the list of things that will interrupt a non-maintenance bard song.

So per RAW, it's possible to continue maintaining a song that doesn't require concentration (ie: inspire courage) while at the same time starting a new song that does (ie: countersong).

I don't see anything particularly overpowered about that, and I still wouldn't rule you need two perform skills (rather, the bard could just sing their inspire courage song louder such that it drowns out the sonic attack :smallsmile: )

Arbitrarity
2007-07-25, 03:48 PM
Yes, but with Inspire Courage, you can keep playing for as long as you want, and once you stop playing, the effects last for five more rounds.

And you don't concentrate on Inspire Courage at all. That's the point. It doesn't stop you from using another Bardic Music ability while you play it.

*Wishes he had known that*

nerulean
2007-07-26, 08:07 AM
Only three Bardic Music effects require concentration, and Inspire Courage isn't one of them.

Cheers, -- N

Well well well. Can I tell you how delighted I am to be proven wrong? :smallwink: :smallbiggrin: That frees up some nice feat space in my upcoming bard.