Looking for Super System

[Anderlith]

So I was wanting to run a superhero game, but I need a system, I want a llt of versitility but not a lot of crunch. I can't seem to wrap my head around building powers in M&M, which I find frustrating because I have no problem doing so with other complex games. Also Im not a fan of all the point values you have to juggle when designing/modifying villians.

Is there any other Superhero RPGs (not GURPS) out here worth a darn?

[Koo Rehtorb]

Masks: A New Generation

[Anderlith]

Masks: A New Generation

What's it got?

[Koo Rehtorb]

What's it got?

It's a game about young superheroes growing into their powers. Full of teenage angst.

The "classes" are here. http://www.magpiegames.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Masks-Playbooks.pdf

[Anderlith]

It's a game about young superheroes growing into their powers. Full of teenage angst.

The "classes" are here. http://www.magpiegames.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Masks-Playbooks.pdf

Mechanics? What do you roll, how do you build a pc etc?

[Knaight]

Icons, Godlike, Wild Talents, and Capes are the four that come to mind fastest. I'm not hugely familiar with any of them, and would only classify Icons and Capes as rules light, though the other two are significantly less crunchy than M&M.

[Koo Rehtorb]

Mechanics? What do you roll, how do you build a pc etc?

There are five stats.

Danger - To Directly Engage a Threat
Freak - To Unleash Your Powers
Savior - To Defend Someone or Something
Superior - To Assess a Situation and To Provoke Someone
Mundane - To Comfort and Support Someone, and To Pierce the Mask

Each stat will range between -2 and +3. You roll 2d6 + the stat. on a 6- you fail, on a 7-9 you get a partial success, on a 10+ you get a full success. Each class has a starting stat array. Stats will shift up and down during play so you can end up with any combination of them.

Classes get various moves they unlock as they level up which change the basic rules above and give you new options.

[Anderlith]

There are five stats.

Danger - To Directly Engage a Threat
Freak - To Unleash Your Powers
Savior - To Defend Someone or Something
Superior - To Assess a Situation and To Provoke Someone
Mundane - To Comfort and Support Someone, and To Pierce the Mask

Each stat will range between -2 and +3. You roll 2d6 + the stat. on a 6- you fail, on a 7-9 you get a partial success, on a 10+ you get a full success. Each class has a starting stat array. Stats will shift up and down during play so you can end up with any combination of them.

Classes get various moves they unlock as they level up which change the basic rules above and give you new options.

So kind of like Traveller?
Are the superpowers expansive?

[Grod_The_Giant]

So I was wanting to run a superhero game, but I need a system, I want a llt of versitility but not a lot of crunch. I can't seem to wrap my head around building powers in M&M, which I find frustrating because I have no problem doing so with other complex games. Also Im not a fan of all the point values you have to juggle when designing/modifying villians.
To be fair, the book tells you not to pay attention to the points when designing NPCs. But yeah, it does take some time to wrap your head around the system. Uhhh... Savage Worlds has some rules for superpowers, though I dunno how well they work. Scion 2nd edition is coming out soon?

[Cluedrew]

roll 2d6 + the stat. on a 6- you fail, on a 7-9 you get a partial success, on a 10+ you get a full success. Each class has a starting stat array.Apocalypse World Hack/Powered by the Apocalypse?

[Anonymouswizard]

Wearing the Cape should be out fairly soon, the kickstarter just finished (still waiting on the survey so I can get my PDF copy), but it is based on Fate so it might not be your cup of tea.

Also in Fate there's Venture City, which is 'super punk', essentially a cyberpunk seeing with supers and a superpower system, and all the rules are available for free as an SRD.

[Thinker]

Apocalypse World Hack/Powered by the Apocalypse?

Appears that way. Big list of hacks:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1whsN3C5e31CZfo8hqlJbiKTPBX9kkCDSEG_An9FlP5s/edit#gid=0

Looking at the list, there's a few others that don't necessarily involve teenage angst if that's not your cup of tea.

[gbg42]

Apocalypse World Hack/Powered by the Apocalypse?

Yeah, Mask is the Apocalypse World superhero game. In terms of stat structure, its also based of off Monster Hearts, which is where it gets a bunch of the teen emotion stuff.

Going to OP, I happen to really like Fate. You may look at Spirit of The Century or Atomic Robo for inspiration, depending on what kind of superhero game you want to run.

[SimonMoon6]

My favorite game system is:

Mayfair's DC Heroes RPG (2nd/3rd edition) which is long out of print. It was remade (without DC stuff) as Blood of Heroes, but if you find it, make sure to get Blood of Heroes: The Special Edition (adds errata plus more stuff).

Advantages: One of the most simple systems for making characters. Can you describe the character? You've just made the character. But it's also complex enough to handle all the details of what a character can and can not do. It also can easily handle the most powerful superheroes and entities without any more number-crunching than for an ordinary person.

Drawbacks: Character creation needs to be carefully watched over as it's easy to make a character that's too powerful. It doesn't always handle low-powered characters with a lot of detail (but who cares about non-powered nobodies when you're playing a superhero?). And one obvious House Rule is necessary regarding hitting with attacks involving powers. But it's obvious so I won't mention it.

Stats:

Three physical stats: Dex/Strength/Body
Three mental stats: Int/Will/Mind
Three mystical (charisma) stats: Influence/Aura/Spirit

The three trios of stats work similarly (dodge mental attack with INT, dodge mystical attacks with Influence, etc).

You roll 2d10. If doubles, roll again and add to previous roll, keep going forever. Except double 1's which are auto fail. Compare the roll to a chart to see if you hit and how much damage you did. Skill rolls work exactly the same.

[VincentTakeda]

Palladium's Heroes Unlimited. Opposed d20 combat, percentile skills. Non customizable powers. No MDC debacle.

[Anderlith]

Masks looks interesting, though not exactly looking towards playing as Young Justice/Young Avengers/etc. Ill be looking up the others as well.

[ngilop]

is has a horrible reputation on these forums for being 'too math' ( which I have never ever understood) but the Heroes system is, in my opinion, the best superhero system out there.

its up to 6th edition now and I have no looked at it since 4th.

[Anderlith]

is has a horrible reputation on these forums for being 'too math' ( which I have never ever understood) but the Heroes system is, in my opinion, the best superhero system out there.

its up to 6th edition now and I have no looked at it since 4th.
Is it like M&M? Because its not exactly math, its the wording/keywords they use for all kinds of different things that make everything a headache

[Telok]

Is it like M&M? Because its not exactly math, its the wording/keywords they use for all kinds of different things that make everything a headache

Nah, there's at least three ways to build anything and you have to do basic multiplication and division of a middle school lever, or use a chart. The hardest thing after that is occasionally dropping 30d6 on someone, totalling it for stun damage and counting ones and sixes for body damage.

Edit: and you can find the free basic play book as a pdf. About 80 pages or so.

[ngilop]

Nah, there's at least three ways to build anything and you have to do basic multiplication and division of a middle school lever, or use a chart. The hardest thing after that is occasionally dropping 30d6 on someone, totalling it for stun damage and counting ones and sixes for body damage.

Edit: and you can find the free basic play book as a pdf. About 80 pages or so.

I have to disagree with this. I started Champions (the precursor for the heroes system) when I was 6, so needing middle school levels of math is way off.

[Anderlith]

I have to disagree with this. I started Champions (the precursor for the heroes system) when I was 6, so needing middle school levels of math is way off.

Like i said, its not math, its making things like, a Blast Effect that maybe has somekind of power drain along wih damage, that makes me flip to five different parts of the book, with no clear answers & each new power has a different point cap & other fiddly bits like having it only work or certain keywords or only while the sun is up etc. That gives me a headache. I can math with the best of them, but I hate having to try to stat a should be easy enough power only to have a vaguely outlined list of rider abilities all with fiddly bits attached.

[Telok]

I have to disagree with this. I started Champions (the precursor for the heroes system) when I was 6, so needing middle school levels of math is way off.

With all the whinging over the "heavy math" of Champions I've sort of stopped assuming that people actually get taught math at all before middle school.

[Knaight]

With all the whinging over the "heavy math" of Champions I've sort of stopped assuming that people actually get taught math at all before middle school.

As has been repeatedly clarified, the people criticizing Champions are doing so because of the quantity of math, and not the difficulty of the individual calculations. Now, acknowleding that does require that one give up their sense of superiority over a bunch of people based on their nonexistent innumeracy, but it's also the position with factual basis.

[Telok]

As has been repeatedly clarified, the people criticizing Champions are doing so because of the quantity of math

That's news to me. I still don't see how it's any more than the 3rd, 4th, or Pathfinder editions of D&D, or Shadowrun, or a couple other systems I've played. 30 dice is 30 dice.

[Koo Rehtorb]

That's news to me. I still don't see how it's any more than the 3rd, 4th, or Pathfinder editions of D&D, or Shadowrun, or a couple other systems I've played. 30 dice is 30 dice.

All of those games are also unpleasantly mathy.

[Pauly]

I played in a campaign using SJG's Strange Synergy which was a lot of fun. Strange synergy is really a combat board game, and we had an experienced DM who handled the roleplay side of things.
We'd declare we were using a skill and he'd make a Judgement call on how much the skill helped or hindered the role play action.

The combat system envourages a very cinematic game play so we had a lot of fun,
For me I like free flowing combat and not sweating the small details. But if you want a heavier system with more complex rules for roleplay interaction then it won't be the path for you

[Knaight]

That's news to me. I still don't see how it's any more than the 3rd, 4th, or Pathfinder editions of D&D, or Shadowrun, or a couple other systems I've played. 30 dice is 30 dice.

Putting aside how those games also get criticized, the complexity of said games have literally nothing to do with what criticisms have been levied against HERO specifically and the accuracy of conflating "doesn't want to do lots of tedious calculations" with "doesn't have a strong enough mathematical background to handle basic arithmetic". They aren't the same thing, and speaking as a frequent critic of HERO, our patience for having the criticisms waved away on the basis of us being unable to do basic math has worn thin.

[weckar]

I always liked Silver Age Sentinels. it's quick, easy, streamlined and can facilitate practically any type of character. One 'drawback' is that it is 100% gridless and mapless, so theatre of the mind all the way on this one. It's based on the good old Tri-Stat system which is by now freely and legally available.

[VincentTakeda]

Another reason I recommend palladium's heroes unlimited. No grid, no mat. Powers don't have to be 'built'. Classes are easily recognizable 'comic book archetypes'... Aliens, Experiments, Cyborgs, Robots, Psychics, Mutants, Gadget guys, Special training. Throw in Ninjas and Superspies and you've got your kung fu fighters. Powers 2 expansion opens up some other less common archetypes like immortals, gestalts, eugenics, demigods/godlings. Characters can be really powerful right out of the gate, as some powers scale with level while some powers are simply more narrative in nature.

[Anderlith]

How do i get the beta test rules for Masks? I signed up for the newsletter, put cant find them

[Razade]

I'll vouche for Masks: A New Generation not the least of which because I am currently running a game of it here on the forums. It's a great system over all. Really fond of it.

[Max_Killjoy]

As has been repeatedly clarified, the people criticizing Champions are doing so because of the quantity of math, and not the difficulty of the individual calculations.


I think that's the first time I've seen someone specifically make that distinction.




Like i said, its not math, its making things like, a Blast Effect that maybe has somekind of power drain along wih damage, that makes me flip to five different parts of the book, with no clear answers & each new power has a different point cap & other fiddly bits like having it only work or certain keywords or only while the sun is up etc. That gives me a headache. I can math with the best of them, but I hate having to try to stat a should be easy enough power only to have a vaguely outlined list of rider abilities all with fiddly bits attached.


That sounds like you were playing using HERO rules, but with a group of people who enjoy ultra-cheesing D&D 3.5 builds. Or it's possible that the "written like legal documents" feel I got from previewing 6th edition actually came to pass (I stopped actively participating in HERO's forums around then, I had a disagreement with the self-important jackwagon who managed their forums and software over his lopsided enforcement of the rules based on his own political beliefs --I used to be a moderator there).

There were no "keywords" in HERO 4th or 5th, but that sounds like Limitations -- such as "power costs fewer character points, because it can only be used when the sun is up". That's a very straight-foward thing and there's nothing "fiddly" about it.

At least in 4th and 5th, powers didn't have any sort of different point cap for each one -- what you do have is campaign guidelines set by the group or the GM alone, based on recommendations for different power levels. 12 damage classes (about 60 character points, of 12d6 of basic energy blast or STR-based hand-to-hand damage) was a common recommended damage class cap in 4th and 5th editions.

[BarbieTheRPG]

So I was wanting to run a superhero game, but I need a system, I want a llt of versitility but not a lot of crunch. I can't seem to wrap my head around building powers in M&M, which I find frustrating because I have no problem doing so with other complex games. Also Im not a fan of all the point values you have to juggle when designing/modifying villians.

Is there any other Superhero RPGs (not GURPS) out here worth a darn?
Really depends on the kind of adventure you're running. All systems are not created equal. Champions (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/107799/Champions-Complete) does it all very well but you don't want the crunch. Games with pre-designed powers that are easy to 'plug and play': Marvel Superheroes, Advanced (http://classicmarvelforever.com/cms/advanced-game-and-modules.html), ICONS (http://greenroninstore.com/products/icons-superpowered-roleplaying-the-assembled-edition), maybe Villains & Vigilantes (http://www.rpgnow.com/product/81970/Villains-and-Vigilantes-21).

[daniel_ream]

I'll refrain from jumping into the Champions argument[1] and offer a useless opinion: the two best superhero games, IMO, are ones you can't get any more.

Hands down my favorite superhero RPG is Marvel Heroic Roleplaying from MWP, which is only available on the used market. Cam Banks has the current rights to Cortex and may some day produce the deskinned version, but don't hold your breath. IMO, MHR is the only superhero RPG that actually feels like a four-color superhero comic.

Running a close second is the Marvel Super Heroes Adventure Game, a.k.a. The One With The Cards. Not quite as good at genre emulation as MHR, but a good game nonetheless with some fun and unique mechanics. Even harder to find than MHR, sadly. Tommy Brownell was at one point going to work up a rights-free deck one could PnP, but again that seems to have vanished into the mists of time.

Nothing else out there, IMHO, comes even close to feeling like a Silver or Bronze Age comic book. In all fairness, for some (like Heroes Unlimited or Cold Steel Wardens), it's because they're not trying to.


[1] I have degrees in chemical engineering and mathematics/computer science; I hate Champions (and M&M, and Wild Talents, and such derivative effects-based point buy games) because the math is pointless, not because I can't do it

[digiman619]

there's The Phoenix Project (http://phoenixprojectrpg.com/), which is an add-on to D20 Modern that's all about superheroes. It's more mechanical that flavorful (What if you had 100 ranks in Tumble? What if you had a Strength score of 50?), but it's quite handy nonetheless.

[Anderlith]

I think that's the first time I've seen someone specifically make that distinction.




That sounds like you were playing using HERO rules, but with a group of people who enjoy ultra-cheesing D&D 3.5 builds. Or it's possible that the "written like legal documents" feel I got from previewing 6th edition actually came to pass (I stopped actively participating in HERO's forums around then, I had a disagreement with the self-important jackwagon who managed their forums and software over his lopsided enforcement of the rules based on his own political beliefs --I used to be a moderator there).

There were no "keywords" in HERO 4th or 5th, but that sounds like Limitations -- such as "power costs fewer character points, because it can only be used when the sun is up". That's a very straight-foward thing and there's nothing "fiddly" about it.

At least in 4th and 5th, powers didn't have any sort of different point cap for each one -- what you do have is campaign guidelines set by the group or the GM alone, based on recommendations for different power levels. 12 damage classes (about 60 character points, of 12d6 of basic energy blast or STR-based hand-to-hand damage) was a common recommended damage class cap in 4th and 5th editions.

I was talking about Mutants & Masterminds

It just frustrates me to have to figure out how to make a power work. It's not math so much as just following the rabbit hole of multicolored powers to clidge two ir three effect together to get one power that might be part of an array of oher powers etc. Granted I jumped into the new edition without much experience but hat has never slowed me in other games

[daniel_ream]

It just frustrates me to have to figure out how to make a power work. It's not math so much as just following the rabbit hole of multicolored powers to clidge two ir three effect together to get one power that might be part of an array of oher powers etc.

Ignore the power build system.

Decide what you want the power to do. Use the existing mechanics, but don't be afraid to just make something up if the system doesn't have what you need. If your GM gets huffy about point costs, eyeball the power and make a judicious decision about how much it should cost. Don't get too hung up on this, point costs aren't as important as what the power can do. Write down the power on your sheet and apply the It Just Works Like This +0 modifier.

[Max_Killjoy]

I was talking about Mutants & Masterminds

It just frustrates me to have to figure out how to make a power work. It's not math so much as just following the rabbit hole of multicolored powers to clidge two ir three effect together to get one power that might be part of an array of oher powers etc. Granted I jumped into the new edition without much experience but hat has never slowed me in other games

OK -- I was confused because you were replying to a post about Champions.

Mutants and Masterminds, I've shied away from based on my limited exposure.

[Anonymouswizard]

I was talking about Mutants & Masterminds

It just frustrates me to have to figure out how to make a power work. It's not math so much as just following the rabbit hole of multicolored powers to clidge two ir three effect together to get one power that might be part of an array of oher powers etc. Granted I jumped into the new edition without much experience but hat has never slowed me in other games

Mutants & Masterminds is annoying. While most of my group figured how to build their powers (and the one who didn't has recurring problems with character building) getting everyone to have their powers at the right level was annoying, especially with how some powers were just plain annoying to build (looking at you energy blob girl). A lot can down to it occasionally being hard to separate the fluff and crunch, and we mostly feel back on twisting standard hero archetypes and avoided going equipment heavy (my 4m mechanical sit character will wait for another game).

A weird idea might be Savage Worlds. The superpowers supplement will likely be wanted as standard superpowers are weak (mostly to balance then with mundanes, although they start to fall behind as ultra tech comes online), but the game plays fast and may allow those fights with 20+mooks to be resolved in a decent time frame.

[Mutazoia]

My favorite game system is:

Mayfair's DC Heroes RPG (2nd/3rd edition) which is long out of print. It was remade (without DC stuff) as Blood of Heroes, but if you find it, make sure to get Blood of Heroes: The Special Edition (adds errata plus more stuff).

Advantages: One of the most simple systems for making characters. Can you describe the character? You've just made the character. But it's also complex enough to handle all the details of what a character can and can not do. It also can easily handle the most powerful superheroes and entities without any more number-crunching than for an ordinary person.

Drawbacks: Character creation needs to be carefully watched over as it's easy to make a character that's too powerful. It doesn't always handle low-powered characters with a lot of detail (but who cares about non-powered nobodies when you're playing a superhero?). And one obvious House Rule is necessary regarding hitting with attacks involving powers. But it's obvious so I won't mention it.

Stats:

Three physical stats: Dex/Strength/Body
Three mental stats: Int/Will/Mind
Three mystical (charisma) stats: Influence/Aura/Spirit

The three trios of stats work similarly (dodge mental attack with INT, dodge mystical attacks with Influence, etc).

You roll 2d10. If doubles, roll again and add to previous roll, keep going forever. Except double 1's which are auto fail. Compare the roll to a chart to see if you hit and how much damage you did. Skill rolls work exactly the same.

I'm going to second this. DC Heroes has always been my go-to game for super-hero games. That or TSR's Marvel Superheros. But I find that DC Heroes is much more flexible in creating heroes, with out a lot of the extra crunch that M&M throws into the mix.

[daniel_ream]

But I find that DC Heroes is much more flexible in creating heroes, with out a lot of the extra crunch that M&M throws into the mix.

You may want to hunt up M&M 2E, then. In the same way that M&M 3 appropriates Champions' build system and bolts it onto a d20 resolution mechanic, 2E appropriates DC Heroes' build system. And it resolves quicker.

[Mutazoia]

You may want to hunt up M&M 2E, then. In the same way that M&M 3 appropriates Champions' build system and bolts it onto a d20 resolution mechanic, 2E appropriates DC Heroes' build system. And it resolves quicker.

Have you actually played DC heroes? It resolves quicker than any M&M variant.

[Arbane]

The old TSR Marvel Superheroes game got mentioned - there's a clone of it out called 'FASERIP' (after the statline), Which can be gotten for free (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/177913/Faserip?filters=500_0_0_0_0&).

I've played a rules-light superhero RPG called 'Truth and Justice' which seemed pretty good. I think it's based on the PDQ system: Abilities ranged from -2 to +6, and you have a few generalized abilities like 'made of rock' or 'telekinetic', or 'good with a baseball bat'. Fairly simple.

[Mutazoia]

The old TSR Marvel Superheroes game got mentioned - there's a clone of it out called 'FASERIP' (after the statline), Which can be gotten for free (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/177913/Faserip?filters=500_0_0_0_0&).

It's not bad for a clone, although it does change how the Limitations work (no more power boost for giving your power a limitation).