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View Full Version : Optimization Anti-Antimagic Tactics



NNescio
2017-03-08, 08:08 AM
WARNING: HIGH LEVEL CHEESE AHEAD

Recitals (some ranting, ignore if TL;DR):



Spellcasters are powerful in this game. They bend reality, after all. A well-played team with two or three full spellcasters can roll over encounters easily (even with the stipulated 6-8 encounters a day, if your players are good enough), especially if they get to dictate the terms of combat before it even started via Divination spells and other means (Combat as War instead of Combat as Sport mentality, basically). A DM can still challenge them however, by using NPC spellcasters of his own, or by imposing some sort of time limit to keep up the pressure.

Another popular, if controversial method is with the use of Antimagic Fields. Some encounters, like the Beholder, can be quite fun, as it itself has a crippling weakness since it can't fire its beams into its own AMF. Spellcasters can therefore still use tactics and contribute to the team by using effects that deny line of sight (e.g. Fog Cloud, Darkness, Sleet Storm) to the Beholder -- the Beholder is then placed in a Morton's Fork where it can either maintain its AMF and be unable to fire (thus leaving it vulnerable to martial characters) or to drop its AMF and be blinded (and thus unable to fire either).

Of course, the Beholder itself is an intelligent creature, and as such may have countermeasures set up for contingencies like this. Lvl 3+ Continual Flames, for example, to keep the area illuminated even in Darkness, or low level casters like beholder cultists to Dispel or Counterspell. A Beholder's lair can also often be rather labyrinthine, allowing it to flee and engage the party on better terms.

The party can then come up with countermeasures of their own. Multiple spells that obscure sight, for example. Darkness can also be cast at a higher level if the caster suspects Continual Flame. Banishment can also be cast on the Beholder while the caster isn't in an AMF (and far enough to make sure the cultists cannot Counterspell). The party can then mop up his minions and ready actions to hit the Beholder when it comes back.

The above tactics also have their own countermeasures, and so on. For some people, especially those who enjoy Combat as War (instead of Combat as Sport), this cycle of challenging the players and getting challenged by them (and vice versa) can be quite fun. (Given the caveat of not turning the game into an arms race both OOC and IC as both the DM and players seek to one-up each other. This should only be done if the whole table is okay with it.)

Thus, Antimagic Fields can be a powerful way to challenge spellcasters when done correctly, forcing them to come up with novel approaches to solve an encounter or a general mission without resorting to their usual methods. Done poorly, however, such as with blanket AMFs over a whole dungeon or city, and you effectively deny your spellcasters their main class features for much of the session (or across multiple sessions, which is pretty much a good way to lose players). This can be much worse in 5e, as AMF interactions are poorly defined due to many monster (and some player) abilities and traits being unclear on whether they are magical in nature or not (in 3.5e, however, such abilities and traits clearly spelled out as Su and shut down in an AMF), so players can be stuck in unfair situations where most of their abilities don't work but the enemies' still do.

Now, this doesn't mean a DM who uses AMFs liberally is a BadWrongFun DM that you shouldn't play under. Sometimes, well, whether if he has his flaws or not, you still enjoy his games and stories overall (even if you personally still hate the AMFs), and you can still find fun in his games even if you have to be very creative to find some way to contribute. Now, of course, OOC problems should be handled OOC instead of IC, and you should still have a chat with the DM if you think he's being a bit too heavy-handed with the AMFs and find yourself losing fun because your character is continually being denied access to his class feature. Maybe sit out a few sessions, for example, or bring in a second character.

But sometimes, heh, you would rather rise to the challenge. Maybe the DM has heard stories of how you came up with (or more likely, *cough* borrowed from Char Op boards) Initiate of Mystra/Extraordinary Spell Aim builds to cast in an AMF back in 3.5e. Or maybe just use instantaneous conjurations, Shrink Item'd adamantine cone hats/rocks and creative environmental effects to protect yourself or shoot through an AMF. Now let's see how you do this in 5e.

(Again, with the usual caveat that this is not supposed to be an arms race, everyone on the table should be okay with it, etc. etc.)

DM proposes short high-level (Lvl 18+) campaign to see how we break things to pieces. He will ramp up the challenge rapidly over the course of the campaign. Houserules in place are that Simulacrums can't cast Simulacrums (whether via Simulacrum or via Wishing), True Polymorph can't create magical items or spell components, True Polymorph can't create creatures with class levels, and True Polymorph lasts "until dispelled" as per the stealth errata in page 185 of the SRD (http://media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/SRD-OGL_V1.1.pdf) (I know, RAI as per Crawford "permanent" is the same as "until dispelled" anyway, but DM doesn't want Teleportation Circles and other "cast multiple times over the course of months for a permanent effect spells" to be taken out by Dispel Magic). Otherwise, we stick to RAW, maybe RAI for some ambiguous cases (DM ruled summoning 8x Pixies is still kosher for the Druid though).

I expect AMFs (and Dispels) to come up quite often in this campaign. Unfortunately so far, most of the methods I can think of to combat AMFs require the use of very high-level spells (unlike back in 3.5e, where any caster worth his salt can easily access quite a few methods to shoot through one).

Method 1: By the Power of the Rainbow.

Cast Prismatic Wall. This spell is explicitly immune against Antimagic Field. Yeah, boring, but there are no arguments about it.

Disadvantages: This spell can usually only be used in combat (10 min duration) and has short range, so you can't set it up beforehand, which is a strike against it since you can't actually cast it if AMF is already up. It's also a 9th-level static defensive spell that is generally far less useful than the bigger guns like Wish and True Polymorph, or even Time Stop, Foresight and Shapechange. High opportunity cost.

Method 2: Minionmancy Part 1: Raise the Dead.

This is straightforward and uses far lower spells than most other methods. Animate Dead and Create Undead are both instantaneous effects, so the magic is gone once those creatures are made. It is arguable by RAW that AMF would also wink these creatures out as they are still "created by magic", but Sage Compendium 2015 Page 9 (http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/SA_Compendium.pdf) makes it clear that they won't by RAI.

This method is highly practical even at lower levels, even more so for Necromancers. It's hardly cheesy either, as it is using a spell exactly as it is intended. All hail the Necromancer, indeed.

Disadvantages: Maintaining control over massive amounts of undead can be a severe logistical nightmare (Wight lieutenants do help a lot though). And that's before considering the drain on your spell slots. Creating an excessive number of undead can also be an alignment issue. Also, your undead are vulnerable to being turned even in an AMF, as Channel Divinity "channel(s) divine energy directly from your deity".

Method 2: Pray to God.

Lvl. 20 Clerics can call for Divine Intervention without rolling. This can be used somewhat reliably to duplicate a single cleric spell (including your domain spells), as "the effect of any cleric spell or cleric domain spell would be appropriate". Dispel Magic cast this way (or rather, the effect of Dispel Magic as simulated by your deity) can shut off a single AMF. Alternatively you can ask your deity to smite your enemies (with an AoE or BFC spell). You may be able to spring for stronger effects, like granting the whole party the ability to continue casting, but this becomes far less reliable and more subject to DM adjudication.

Lower level (minimum L10) Clerics can also attempt this, but this becomes even less reliable, as they only have a (Cleric Level)% chance of succeeding.

Weaknesses: Not entirely reliable (even when duplicating Cleric spells), and you only get one shot before you need to wait a week.

Method 3: ...Or Just be A Weather Wizard. Or Druid.

Change the weather towards Artic Cold Blizzard Storm. Useful against antimagic field equipped armies.

Disadvantages: This method only works if both you and your enemies are outdoors. Also, it is possible to read the rules in such a way that the AMF would protect even against the changed weather, despite the spell only directly affecting the weather and not the creatures. A similar reading would also make the spell vulnerable to Dispel Magic.

Method 4: Ain't My Fault They Disbelieved the Floor.

Cast Mirage Arcane to create your own structures or higher terrain, all of which have tactile elements and are hence 'solid'. Your non-AMF using buddies can benefit from cover and height. AMFs using foes? They fall through the Mirage floor or ground.

This is more effective with an Illusionist of course, who can alter the illusion with Malleable Illusions, and can also replicate this trick on a smaller scale with non-solid images by using Illusory Reality.

Disadvantages: This method requires a lot of space to pull off. Your Mirage Arcane is also unambiguously vulnerable to Dispel Magic (even if AMF is unable to suppress it completely). AMF foes with flight can also just beeline straight to your position, ignoring all terrain in the way (and can even make you fall once they reach you, if you're standing on Mirage Arcane ground.)

Method 5: Minionmancy Part 2: Attack of the Helmed Horrors.

Now this is when things start getting cheesy.

Want to upgrade from undead, right? Normal Planar Bound minions don't work in AMFs though, since they wink out. They are also highly susceptible to Dispels removing Planar Binding. Time to make your own minions then.

Use True Polymorph to create Helmed Horrors from I dunno, medium-sized logs or something. Or plate armor if you insist on aesthetics, not that anyone can see it anyway. Since you are well, their creator, set its spell immunities to Dispel Magic, Antimagic Field, and I dunno about the last one, maybe just Fireball.

Now sic those guys on those AMF-wielding blokes. Sure, they are only CR 4, but they have a ****-ton of resistances and immunities.

Disadvantages: Helmed Horrors have Blindsight 60 ft. and are blind beyond that radius, which leaves them highly susceptible to getting kited to death in large areas, even if they can fly. Then again AMFs are less of a concern in large areas anyway.

Another issue is that the True Polymorph spell itself can be argued to be a separate effect from the Helmed Horror itself and hence be vulnerable to Dispel Magic and AMF. Ruling it this way, however, would also mean that Spell Immune creatures like, say, the Rakshasa, can also have its personal buffs be dispelled, despite being immune to Dispel Magic. I think it's more consistent to just rule immune means immune.

Just be wary that these Helmed Horrors would fail to function in a Dead Magic area (as opposed to an AMF).

Method 6: Minionmancy Part 3: Playing God.

Let's turn the cheese dial up to Gouda, shall we. We're going to create 'real' creatures now.

First create a Demiplane. Next True Polymorph a suitably-sized object into a living creature. Clone it, wait 120 days (imprisoning the creature in a separate Demiplane if necessary), kill the creature, and voila, you have an actual, living creature that is not longer under True Polymorph!

Actually controlling the creature can be somewhat tricky though, since it is not a created construct who obeys its creator like the Helmed Horror (and this trick doesn't work on constructs, except for the rare living ones like Warforged). You can choose to create a Celestial, Fiend, Fey or Elemental and Planar Bind them, offering to [s]turn them into a real boy make them real in exchange for their service (contingent on them accepting Planar Bindings right now, and later after you kill and Clone them). Use Magic Circle as necessary to make things secure (especially Magic Circle their Clone before it activates, since they can renege on their promise since they are already cloned). Treat it well, and now you have an actual living, 'real' and AMF-proof minion (it wasn't summoned, so it would not wink out in an AMF either, and Clone is instantaneous) who might even stay with you even after its Planar Binding is up (because Dispels still exist, so don't piss it off either).

If you prefer the stick approach if they don't listen, just abandon them in the Demiplane you created and come back later to see if they have changed their minds. Make sure you have a way to deal with it if it decides to go all hostile on you when you come back though.

Couatls are generally preferred for the above purpose because they have immunity to non-magical weapons (muahaha AMFs) and are more reasonable and personable then say, fiends, who would likely backstab you on first opportunity, even if you treat them well.

Generally, this method works better for a Charisma caster like a Bard who can persuade creatures. He might even be able to convince 'Material Plane' creatures to follow him, bypassing the need for Planar Binding

Bonus cheddar: Try the above trick with your Simulacrum for higher-CR creatures.

Disadvantages: This method has a long set-up time. It can also backfire spectacularly on you if you aren't careful. More so if you are dumb enough of a risk taker to try this on Nycaloths or anything with Dispel Magic, at-will or otherwise. Fiends are also always risky even without Dispel Magic. Also, since creatures created this way are basically NPC with their own agency (unlike the constructs), whether you are able to persuade them or not depends a lot on the DM.

Another issue is that the creatures can harm or kill you if they turn hostile.

It's also debatable whether creatures created this way have souls or not, in which case they won't come back via Clone. This gets even muddier if you True Polymorph your simulacrum instead of an object.

Method 7: I've Got a Monster in my Pocket.

Stuff some AMF-proof creature, or creatures in your personal Demiplane. Open the Demiplane when you need to to get your creatures out. These can be anything from Animate Dead mooks to Helmed Horrors to the creations you made when you were playing God.

Just be careful not to use intelligent creatures (especially if they have Plane Shift/Dismissal or some way to get out) if they aren't under your control, as they would be pissed with you for locking them in the Demiplane.

With non-Intelligent creatures like most beasts (and some undead/aberrations/monstrosities), you can try to lead them towards your enemies, especially if you have illusions (and you yourself, or better your Simulacrum remains invisible, far from the AMF. The Illusionist can do this trick better with Malleable Illusions).

Bonus cheddar: Use Thaumaturgy to open the shadowy door to the Demiplane from range.

Disadvantages: This inherits the disadvantages of whichever Minionmancy tactic used to produce the creature (the undead approach wouldn't eat up your spell slots though if you don't mind not being able to control them). You could capture real creatures for use, but this makes things much harder. Also non-controlled creatures can backfire on you as usual.

Method 8: Say Hi to My Bear Cannon.

True Polymorph AMF-proof creatures into small rocks. Preferably those that get angry easily and iaren't too intelligent to realize you were the one who did this to them. Keep the rocks in a small chest (the kind you put spellbooks or diaries in) to block line of effect from AMF (or even safer, stuff it into a Bag of Holding). When you encounter an AMF at a distance, take out a rock and fire it via Catapult toward enemies in the AMF.

Disadvantages: Getting the creatures can be somewhat troublesome as you need to True Polymorph them and ensure they fail their saves. You only get one attempt per day.

Also, accidental Dispelling or AMF-surpression of the rocks while they are still on your person (after you open the chest and/or take them out) can backfire on you.

Method 9: Make a (Simulacrum) Wish.

This is arguably the cheesiest, if refreshingly direct.

Create a Simulacrum using the Simulacrum spell (don't duplicate it with Wish) while you still have a 9th level spell slot. Keep the Simulacrum around until you foresee encountering AMFs within the next 8 hours. Have it use Wish to grant you and your friends immunity to Antimagic Field (specify the magical effect, not just the spell) for 8 hours. Now you can cast in AMFs, and your other buffs will probably remain up. You can also Teleport or Planeshift out to escape from the situation. Or Time Stop to access the situation.

Disadvantages: You still can cast in an AMF, but that doesn't mean most your spells (at least the ones that create a discrete effect like Demiplane) aren't suppressed. Targeted spells also won't work on other targets within the AMF (and arguably you yourself can be targeted by spells cast by casters from outside the AMF) . Your magical items will also be shut down. Arguably your buffs too (like the Helmed Horror case), depending on whether they are considered part of you or separate effects. Still, this can lead to hilarity when your suppressed spells (that nobody expect you to be able to cast) fire off the moment the AMF is removed.

Probably will not work in an actual Dead Magic (not just AMF) zone though.

--

Anyone has any other ideas? Preferably some better way to replicate the old Admantine cone hat trick (a Shrink Item'd Adamantine Cone which returns to its original size in an AMF, blocking the caster who wears it from the AMF's line of effect) back in 3.5e. Wearing a True Polymorph'd Gelatinous Cube, maybe?

Squiddish
2017-03-08, 07:57 PM
Golems and helmed horrors continue to work in antimagic fields, in fact, all constructs do unless they were directly created from a spell (the temporary constructs from animate objects) or the Antimagic Susceptability trait (animated objects from the MM). Otherwise, they work just fine. However, ones created with true polymorph might still be dispelled. The other option of course, is to hire a barbarian/BSF to help you. Either way, your Big Strong Thing is would go and beat up the casters who made the antimagic field. This also works in reverse: if you want to destroy a caster, create an antimagic field and have your golem beat them up. If you both have golems, the fight will probably last longer than the field.