What is the worst spell?

[Arenabait]

There are some great spells in D&D, but there ae some awful ones too, and I'd like to hear your votes on the worst spells in 5e.

My vote? Flame Blade (Not to be confused with Green Flame Blade). It's a 2nd level spell that costs a bonus action to activate and an action to use, it's concentration, and it only does 3d6 at base level, with an extra 1d6 per level after that.

Now, hows abouts we try casting it at 9th level, hmm? holy hell it only does 10d6 damage at 9th level, an average of 35 damage.

Compare this to it's colored, cantrip counterpart: Green Flame Blade which, by the time you're at 17th level, it does a total of 6d8+Spellcasting mod total, plus another 1d8 from a quarterstaff (Just picking it for the sake of picking something, I picked that. I'll also assume that Str is at 0, just for the sake of showing of how bad normal Flame Blade is.), for a damage of 7d8+5. That's an average of (If your spellcasting mod is maxed) 36.5 damage.

That's right, a cantrip does more than this spell cast at 9th level.

[King539]

Tenser's Floating Disc.

[SharkForce]

well, it's hard to say.

witch bolt is awful. it really is. but, it does have the advantage of only burning a level 1 spell slot for it's awfulness.

crown of madness is also awful, though not completely without any redeeming features (but mostly it is *really* situational to the point of being hard to imagine the situation where it is useful as common enough to be worth knowing the spell for anyone), but similiarly costs only a level 2 spell slot.

in contrast, weird is also terrible and costs 9th level spell slot to use.

and i'm honestly not sure how to decide which of those are worse than the others.

[Foxhound438]

Tenser's Floating Disc.

if it had a higher capacity than an enslaved child it might be worth taking, but yeah.

My vote goes to tree stride. For a 5th level spell, it does very little, and it's extremely niche at that. At a spell level down you could cast dimension door. Sure you only get one go of it, but it's a cheaper slot with a much more flexible effect.

[Flashy]

Phantasmal Killer is also a standout, though probably not quite so bad as the other spells mentioned. 4d10 damage a turn with two wisdom saves before the target had a chance to take damage, applies a mediocre condition, all through a 4th level spell slot.

[NNescio]

Find Traps. This spell is completely useless.

First it's a one-shot instantaneous Divination spell, so it only gives you info once, on the turn your cast it.

Next it only allows you to sense the presence of traps within LoS (within a puny 120 ft). So they have to be lying in plain sight anyway, at which you could, yannow, just use active Perception to search?

Next it only reveals traps that were intended to be traps by their creators. Natural terrain pitfalls? Nope. Collapsing floor? Nope (unless it is mechanically designed that way). This makes it worse than Perception.

Next the spell doesn't even tell you WHERE the traps are. It only tells you that "a trap is present". Stupid Admiral Ackbar moment indeed.

Heck, the spell doesn't even specify it tells you the number of traps. It's a trap (more like "there's at least one trap"), that's it.

At least it does tell you "the general nature of the danger posed by a trap you sense", so you can fearlessly Leeroy Jenkins on if the DM made the traps relatively harmless just to slow you down (like say if there's an enemy/rival ahead of you who's trying to prevent you from reaching him in time by laying down cheap traps to delay you).

But for most purposes?

"It's a trap! Or traps, I dunno! I don't even know where they are! Oh and the traps are really dangerous!"

Thanks for nothing, Find Traps.

[SharkForce]

Phantasmal Killer is also a standout, though probably not quite so bad as the other spells mentioned. 4d10 damage a turn with two wisdom saves before the target had a chance to take damage, applies a mediocre condition, all through a 4th level spell slot.

i think they issued errata on that...

the saves every turn now happen at the end of your turn iirc, so you don't get 2 saves before it even has a chance to do anything anymore.

(it still sucks though).

[Specter]

Witch Bolt.

[Maxilian]

Tenser's Floating Disc.

I don't agree, TFD is a ritual, only that gives it a lot of versatility.

Got too many things to carry around, use the disc!

One of your party members is quite slow or/and its the only one without a mount, let him/her hop on it while you ride away!

and so on

Note: If TFD were not a ritual, i would agree

Also OP, when it comes to Flame Blade, its actually nice for a Druid that get it at lvl 5 (Sadly it doesn't scale well, so you could easily forget about it later) but i kind of agree (But at least it have its time frame where the spell its useful)

[Maxilian]

if it had a higher capacity than an enslaved child it might be worth taking, but yeah.

My vote goes to tree stride. For a 5th level spell, it does very little, and it's extremely niche at that. At a spell level down you could cast dimension door. Sure you only get one go of it, but it's a cheaper slot with a much more flexible effect.

I don't think it should be compared with Dimension Door (mainly because those who get Tree Stride doesn't get DD or viceversa -if i'm not mistaken-), also yes is a niche spell (i wouldn't say extremely niche, its not like threes are a rare ocurrence in most campaigns) but yeah, its an OK spell IMHO (there are better options)

[Maxilian]

Witch Bolt.

Just like Flame Blade, WB is quite useful at low lvls, sadly it doesn't scale well, so its a spell to be forgotten.

NOTE: I will go with Crown of Madness (thematically looks great, mechanically, not that much) -Rarely becomes useful, though a player of mine used it, and did a lot with it -The dices were on his side

Note2: also Find Traps also takes my vote

[Specter]

Just like Flame Blade, WB is quite useful at low lvls, sadly it doesn't scale well, so its a spell to be forgotten.

NOTE: I will go with Crown of Madness (thematically looks great, mechanically, not that much) -Rarely becomes useful, though a player of mine used it, and did a lot with it -The dices were on his side

Note2: also Find Traps also takes my vote

Even at low levels. Its damage is similar to a cantrip except it costs a spell slot, and the 'hit on subsequent turns' has so many limitations and ways around it that it's only decent in niche scenarios.

Oh man, how could I forget Crown of Madness? That totally blows!

[jas61292]

Witch Bolt isn't good, but I think one of the reasons people think it is so bad is that they assume all enemies have intimate metagame knowledge of the spell. Yeah, it's easy to walk out of its range to end it, but who would actually do that? Magic exists that can shoot lightning hundreds of feet. Unless you are a mage who identified that spell, you are not going to know to take a few steps back and then come back in. Your average enemy would more likely either charge at the caster and attack, or retreat and either run away or stay well out of range in case it starts up again from moving closer.

As I said, it's not a good spell, but with the potential for guaranteed damage, it is far from the worst spell when facing enemies that react logically, rather than in metagame fashion.

[Demonslayer666]

Witch Bolt isn't good, but I think one of the reasons people think it is so bad is that they assume all enemies have intimate metagame knowledge of the spell. Yeah, it's easy to walk out of its range to end it, but who would actually do that? Magic exists that can shoot lightning hundreds of feet. Unless you are a mage who identified that spell, you are not going to know to take a few steps back and then come back in. Your average enemy would more likely either charge at the caster and attack, or retreat and either run away or stay well out of range in case it starts up again from moving closer.

As I said, it's not a good spell, but with the potential for guaranteed damage, it is far from the worst spell when facing enemies that react logically, rather than in metagame fashion.

That's going to vary quite widely from table to table since there are no RAW on what a creature knows.

WB is a continuous stream of lightning, getting back from something damaging you every round is kinda instinctual.

WB is also very bad because of the low damage, to hit roll, super concentration, and single target. Firebolt is better because it doesn't use a spell slot.

[Tetrasodium]

Spare the dying. It's a cantrip, so one of the few you are probably limited to. It requires both verbal & somatic components, so you probably won't be doing it while armed or trying not to make noise. It requires touch, so your cantrip using self will need to run right over next to your fallen bud. much like just about any heal spell it takes an action raher than reaction/bonus action & just brings them to stable @0hp instead of healed with >0 hp. It precisely replicates the effect of a 5gp 10 use/charge healer's kit that lets you stabilize someone to 0 hp without needing to make the same medicine check spare the dying saves you from making.

[SharkForce]

Note2: also Find Traps also takes my vote

oh yeah, that's a pretty good (awful?) one. basically gives you no useful information except that you should search for traps with the proper skills (which you already knew, because otherwise you wouldn't use the spell), and it can give you a false sense of security too.

[RickAllison]

That's going to vary quite widely from table to table since there are no RAW on what a creature knows.

WB is a continuous stream of lightning, getting back from something damaging you every round is kinda instinctual.

WB is also very bad because of the low damage, to hit roll, super concentration, and single target. Firebolt is better because it doesn't use a spell slot.

So would you then say such creatures would also run away from a cleric using Spirit Guardians, or a warlock focus-firing someone with Eldritch Blast? In either case, you have something damaging you every round so by that logic they should instinctively flee those as well.

[Braininthejar2]

Frostfell. Ruins all the fun by one-shotting encounters.

[SharkForce]

So would you then say such creatures would also run away from a cleric using Spirit Guardians, or a warlock focus-firing someone with Eldritch Blast? In either case, you have something damaging you every round so by that logic they should instinctively flee those as well.

witch bolt is pretty lousy even in the best situation. if you hit, and they don't run away, and they don't break your concentration, you're spending your action and concentration (and you spent a spell slot either way before even knowing if it was going to do anything at all) to deal a really unimpressive amount of damage.

it's high risk (look at all those resources you're throwing at a problem with a very real chance of doing absolutely nothing), low reward.

[BiPolar]

witch bolt is pretty lousy even in the best situation. if you hit, and they don't run away, and they don't break your concentration, you're spending your action and concentration (and you spent a spell slot either way before even knowing if it was going to do anything at all) to deal a really unimpressive amount of damage.

it's high risk (look at all those resources you're throwing at a problem with a very real chance of doing absolutely nothing), low reward.

Better to shoot an arrow into him and cast heat metal. Just uses up a bonus action instead to cause the damage. Of course, he could always just pull the arrow out.

[Sans.]

True Strike(just attack), Weird(sucky damage), Witch Bolt(most combats will be over in 3 rounds), Mordenkainen's Sword(sucky damage) or Power Word Kill(just cast Meteor Swarm)

[JackPhoenix]

So would you then say such creatures would also run away from a cleric using Spirit Guardians, or a warlock focus-firing someone with Eldritch Blast? In either case, you have something damaging you every round so by that logic they should instinctively flee those as well.

Spirit Guardians, definitely. If there's a guy surrounded by a bunch of spirits that try to murder you when you get close, obvious solution is moving out of their reach.

Eldritch Blast, it's like being shot at by arrows... you either take cover or do something to stop the attacker from shooting. Witch Bolt target may actually use the same reasoning... he may not know the spell has a limited range, but he may think taking cover may work (and it will), and the caster obviously does something to continue shooting the lightning, so attacking caster also seems like option (and it is).


Better to shoot an arrow into him and cast heat metal. Just uses up a bonus action instead to cause the damage. Of course, he could always just pull the arrow out.

Arrows aren't fully made from metal and when you shoot someone, you generally don't have line of sight to arrowhead to target it with Heat Metal. Assuming that the "hit" actually got the arrow stuck in the target, which is a whole other can of worms in D&D's abstract combat and HP system.

[Specter]

witch bolt is pretty lousy even in the best situation. if you hit, and they don't run away, and they don't break your concentration, you're spending your action and concentration (and you spent a spell slot either way before even knowing if it was going to do anything at all) to deal a really unimpressive amount of damage.

it's high risk (look at all those resources you're throwing at a problem with a very real chance of doing absolutely nothing), low reward.

Yep. Let's compare it in two turns with another crappy spell (burning hands).

Let's halve BH's average damage, assuming the foe makes the save: 6.75. That's the same damage Witch Bolt would do on the first turn, except it's guaranteed (no rolls) and could be doubled if the target fails the save. On the second turn, you can cast something like Fire Bolt. Assuming a 50% hit chance, let's say 2.75 damage. Witch Bolt also had that same to-hit chance, so applying that same 50% you 3.25 avg.

So Witch Bolt gives you one extra point of damage, if the Burning Hands target succeeds on the save. All of that occupying your concentration.

But I'll give you'll this: Witch Bolt would be decent if the future damage could also be scaled (2d6 for 2nd level, etc.) Then it would pair up well with grappling parties.

[Tetrasodium]

uhh... wrong post

[Demonslayer666]

So would you then say such creatures would also run away from a cleric using Spirit Guardians, or a warlock focus-firing someone with Eldritch Blast? In either case, you have something damaging you every round so by that logic they should instinctively flee those as well.

WB is very different than SG and EB, but yes, I would consider all factors I could muster when deciding if a creature would run away.

WB is a line of energy constantly affecting one target. SG is an area effect, affecting all who enter. EB is certainly intermittent damage and has to hit every round and not guaranteed like WB.

WB should damage every enemy within 30' and turn you into a bug zapper. heh

[BW022]

Witch bolt isn't great, but it isn't that bad. There are times when it can be useful. Again enemy spell casters, the continuous damage is pretty useful for breaking concentration. I've also found it useful against targets who aren't able to reach you -- turned undead forced to a corner, held creatures, those caught in a pit, creatures in trees, swimming creatures, etc. it can be a useful spell. It is also useful against beasts or other unintelligent creatures who might not know to run away. That said... these cases are rare enough that I'd say is it a bad spell.

For me... the worst spells are those which rely almost entirely on DM interpretation.

Charm Person stands out. Some DMs make it a virtual domination effect with charmed people willing to fight and die for you. Others make it more of a guideline where you'd be better off trying a diplomacy check and more DMs seem to favor the later. It is pretty useless in combat, and the fact a creature realizes that it was charmed after combat... typically means using it is pretty difficult.

Illusions often fall in this category also. Casting an illusionary wall... many DMs simply rule that creatures magically interact with it, take steps to realize it is an illusion. Others, can have players firing arrow through the wall for turns and not guess it is an illusion.

Some divinations fall under that category, though the information you get is typically not subject to interpretation.

Such spells often result in arguments, players with hurt feelings, or (alternately) broken interpretations which effectively ruin the game in the players favor.

[SharkForce]

Yep. Let's compare it in two turns with another crappy spell (burning hands).

Let's halve BH's average damage, assuming the foe makes the save: 6.75. That's the same damage Witch Bolt would do on the first turn, except it's guaranteed (no rolls) and could be doubled if the target fails the save. On the second turn, you can cast something like Fire Bolt. Assuming a 50% hit chance, let's say 2.75 damage. Witch Bolt also had that same to-hit chance, so applying that same 50% you 3.25 avg.

So Witch Bolt gives you one extra point of damage, if the Burning Hands target succeeds on the save. All of that occupying your concentration.

But I'll give you'll this: Witch Bolt would be decent if the future damage could also be scaled (2d6 for 2nd level, etc.) Then it would pair up well with grappling parties.

witch bolt doesn't have guaranteed damage on the first turn. you gotta hit with it first, then you get the autohits on later turns.

(also burning hands is AoE, and up front damage is better than over time damage if the two are of the same amount).

[Tanarii]

True Strike and Witchbolt. Because they're two of the few spells that require system mastery to use effectively, or they become a trap. And even then, 'effective' is something of dubious label.

If they came with a big fat * in the PHB, with a footnote *please reference online discussions on how to use these spells properly before selecting they'd be okay.

[Demonslayer666]

True Strike and Witchbolt. Because they're two of the few spells that require system mastery to use effectively, or they become a trap. And even then, 'effective' is something of dubious label.

If they came with a big fat * in the PHB, with a footnote *please reference online discussions on how to use these spells properly before selecting they'd be okay.

I'd love to know how to make WB effective, I'm going to have to look that one up.

Is it simply combine with a grappler (I've seen that mentioned here a few times)?

[Tanarii]

I'd love to know how to make WB effective, I'm going to have to look that one up.It is technically more damage than a Firebolt at levels 1-4. That's about all it has going for it. Edit: it's also technically more damage for the slot than a Magic Missile on round one + Firebolt on following rounds, if the you can use it on one target for (I believe) 4+ rounds. Really, that means low-level high hit point BBEGs / solos.

[Tetrasodium]

I'd love to know how to make WB effective, I'm going to have to look that one up.

Is it simply combine with a grappler (I've seen that mentioned here a few times)?


IKt seems like it would be decent for an eldritch knight/arcane trickster/etc sort who pummels with melee while maintaining that first level 1d12 every round till concentration is somehow broken?

[Specter]

witch bolt doesn't have guaranteed damage on the first turn. you gotta hit with it first, then you get the autohits on later turns.

(also burning hands is AoE, and up front damage is better than over time damage if the two are of the same amount).

I know. I just accidentally moved the hit chance to the 2nd turn instead of the 1st, but the calculations are the same.

[SharkForce]

IKt seems like it would be decent for an eldritch knight/arcane trickster/etc sort who pummels with melee while maintaining that first level 1d12 every round till concentration is somehow broken?

you need to spend actions to get the damage.

it belongs in a "worst spell" thread for a reason :P

(i'm just not 100% sure it is literally the worst spell, or just really close).

[JakOfAllTirades]

True Strike gets my vote.

[Tanarii]

(i'm just not 100% sure it is literally the worst spell, or just really close).IMO it's worth taking into account how much play time a spell level will see when considering worst. Or how often a spell comes up for consideration by players.

So a Cantrip that's available to all arcane casters (True Strike) and a 1st level spell on all arcane caster spell lists except Bard (Witch Bolt) are definitely major contenders, if only because they're there from the beginning.


True Strike gets my vote.
True Strike technically has more universal usage than Witch Bolt. I don't think I've ever seen a way to make Witch Bolt useful past level 4, where it's always just better to spend the slot on something else offensive followed by cantrip spam. Whereas you can always True Strike (round 1) + upcast Chromatic Orb (round 2) to ensure you don't 'waste' the slot and have that be superior to Cantrip + Cantrip (2 rounds), and usually I believe superior to Cantrip + upcast chromatic orb (2 rounds) as well.

[Jerrykhor]

I thought it was agreed that Mordenkainen's Sword is the absolute worst? That thing is a lv3 spell at best, and even then it would still look terrible when up against spells like Counterspell, Fireball/Lightning bolt, Hypnotic Pattern, Slow, Haste, Fear, Fly and possibly even Stinking Cloud.

[LudicSavant]

WB is quite useful at low lvls

No, it really isn't. Other level 1 spells do the damage of 2-3 rounds of witch bolt in one round, and are more likely to successfully deliver their damage than Witch Bolt is. There's no contest, even at level 1.

[SharkForce]

I thought it was agreed that Mordenkainen's Sword is the absolute worst? That thing is a lv3 spell at best, and even then it would still look terrible when up against spells like Counterspell, Fireball/Lightning bolt, Hypnotic Pattern, Slow, Haste, Fear, Fly and possibly even Stinking Cloud.

it is pretty bad. but i'm not convinced it makes you actually worse on later rounds, which can't really be said of witch bolt, so i'm not really sure it's the worst spell ever. certainly it isn't good. but i think there are worse ones out there.

[MeeposFire]

I thought it was agreed that Mordenkainen's Sword is the absolute worst? That thing is a lv3 spell at best, and even then it would still look terrible when up against spells like Counterspell, Fireball/Lightning bolt, Hypnotic Pattern, Slow, Haste, Fear, Fly and possibly even Stinking Cloud.

That spell is not good but it is not as bad as some of the other spells we are talking about. It at least is as effective as it initially seems. Things like true strike and witch bolt are worse than they even seem at first due to all sorts of little details that hurt them so badly (such as withcbolt requiring an action to do damage every round on top of concentration which is just nuts).

[Zalabim]

Mordenkainen's Sword is just a little weaker than a typical Spiritual Weapon upcast to a 6th level slot. It would probably blend in comfortably as a 5th level spell.

Witch Bolt is well known for having very limited use.

I think Grasping Vine is a strong contender for worst too. It's a 4th level spell and I can't imagine ever finding it useful. To save time looking it up, you create a vine in a space on the ground that you can see within 30', and the vine can pull a creature within 30' of it that you can see up to 20' closer to the vine each turn. Bonus action. Concentration, up to a minute.

This isn't like True Strike or Witch Bolt where it sounds like something good that's overburdened by restrictions and costs. It isn't a trap. It just doesn't even sound good.


Whereas you can always True Strike (round 1) + upcast Chromatic Orb (round 2) to ensure you don't 'waste' the slot and have that be superior to Cantrip + Cantrip (2 rounds), and usually I believe superior to Cantrip + upcast chromatic orb (2 rounds) as well.
It would rarely be better. Ignoring the range, the concentration, and the timing, the target has to also be normally hard to hit for True Strike to have a benefit on average. All that also assumes you're the type to cast Chromatic Orb and don't already have a way to get advantage. True strike is a real strong contender since it may never be worth using and you can't replace it later.

[MeeposFire]

Mordenkainen's Sword is just a little weaker than a typical Spiritual Weapon upcast to a 6th level slot. It would probably blend in comfortably as a 5th level spell.

Witch Bolt is well known for having very limited use.

I think Grasping Vine is a strong contender for worst too. It's a 4th level spell and I can't imagine ever finding it useful. To save time looking it up, you create a vine in a space on the ground that you can see within 30', and the vine can pull a creature within 30' of it that you can see up to 20' closer to the vine each turn. Bonus action. Concentration, up to a minute.

This isn't like True Strike or Witch Bolt where it sounds like something good that's overburdened by restrictions and costs. It isn't a trap. It just doesn't even sound good.


It would rarely be better. Ignoring the range, the concentration, and the timing, the target has to also be normally hard to hit for True Strike to have a benefit on average. All that also assumes you're the type to cast Chromatic Orb and don't already have a way to get advantage. True strike is a real strong contender since it may never be worth using and you can't replace it later.

Well the sword spell is concentration so there is that but yea it still is not the worst spell, just not a good one.

[Jerrykhor]

Yes, Witchbolt. Its so, so bad, but you'd be surprised to see there are people defending it. It's mind blowing how they can't see that the spell is utter garbage.

[Astofel]

I used to think True Strike, but then I thought of a situation where it's actually useful. Be a stone sorcerer with GWM, GFB and Quicken Spell. Use Quickened Spell to True Strike, giving you advantage on the GWM + GFB combo. If you're a vuman, you can do this by 2nd level. Granted, this is a very niche use, but a use nonetheless. As for what I think the worst spell is now, I agree with the people saying Find Traps. It'd be better if it had a non-instantaneous duration so you could walk around detecting traps, but not by much. The real question is: does the Find Traps spell detect itself?

[NNescio]

I used to think True Strike, but then I thought of a situation where it's actually useful. Be a stone sorcerer with GWM, GFB and Quicken Spell. Use Quickened Spell to True Strike, giving you advantage on the GWM + GFB combo. If you're a vuman, you can do this by 2nd level. Granted, this is a very niche use, but a use nonetheless.

Just use GWM + GFB, then GWM + Quickened GFB. It's like getting advantage since you make two rolls anyway, but you have the chance to hit twice instead of just once.



As for what I think the worst spell is now, I agree with the people saying Find Traps. It'd be better if it had a non-instantaneous duration so you could walk around detecting traps, but not by much. The real question is: does the Find Traps spell detect itself?

Only if you have the PHB within LoS. And it doesn't tell you how many trap options they are, or on which page they're located on.

[Zalabim]

I used to think True Strike, but then I thought of a situation where it's actually useful. Be a stone sorcerer with GWM, GFB and Quicken Spell. Use Quickened Spell to True Strike, giving you advantage on the GWM + GFB combo. If you're a vuman, you can do this by 2nd level. Granted, this is a very niche use, but a use nonetheless.
You have to be third level to have metamagic, and on top of all the downsides True Strike has, you could just GFB twice. This is not a use for True Strike.

[jas61292]

You have to be third level to have metamagic, and on top of all the downsides True Strike has, you could just GFB twice. This is not a use for True Strike.

Yeah. The use of true strike is to make sure you don't waste leveled spells. Not the most flashy thing, but it is a decent use, especially if you upcast a spell.

It's worthless with cantrips since any situation you use it with a cantrip, you could just have casted the cantrip twice for an equal effect, but with a higher damage ceiling.

EDIT: Actually, there might be one use. Canceling disadvantage. One normal attack might be better than two attacks at disadvantage. Don't know the math on that one though, so I can't say that with certainty.

[NNescio]

Yeah. The use of true strike is to make sure you don't waste leveled spells. Not the most flashy thing, but it is a decent use, especially if you upcast a spell.

Minor Illusion can do the same against most enemies if they can't see through it. Overlay one on your position to block LoS, then fire through it next round for advantage since you are technically "unseen" even if your opponent knows you're there. Depending on what spell you use (Chill Touch, for example) you may not even physical interact with the illusion (well, your body is interacting with it inside the illusion, but creatures outside can't see that part anyway), allowing you to still keep your advantage for subsequent attacks.

Sure, the advantage goes away if an opponent fires through it instead (at disadvantage) before your turn comes up, but Minor Illusion also has plenty of other uses.

[Giant2005]

My vote goes to Mordenkainen's Sword. Its main issue is that there are plenty of spells that all fall into the same category (bonus action damage), except all of those other spells do it better (more damage plus bonus perks) and come at a lower level.
All of the other spells cited at least have some use in specific circumstances and at certain levels, but Mordenkainen's Sword is only useful if you strangely avoid all of the similar, yet better spells. for its sake.

[RickAllison]

Minor Illusion can do the same against most enemies if they can't see through it. Overlay one on your position to block LoS, then fire through it next round for advantage since you are technically "unseen" even if your opponent knows you're there. Depending on what spell you use (Chill Touch, for example) you may not even physical interact with the illusion (well, your body is interacting with it inside the illusion, but creatures outside can't see that part anyway), allowing you to still keep your advantage for subsequent attacks.

Sure, the advantage goes away if an opponent fires through it instead (at disadvantage) before your turn come up, but Minor Illusion also has plenty of other uses.

Furthering the niche use of this (it just gets smaller...), some attacks for spells like Plane Shift require touch. In such a case, Minor Illusion prevents you from reliably getting to them while hidden while True Strike would be fine.

The best use I can find for the spell is for a Swashbuckler or Bladesinger who doesn't skulk around before a fight. Per normal tropes, you declare that you will make the enemy pay for their crimes while pointing your finger at them - and unbeknownst to them (or knownst, if they know magic), you are casting True Strike to get advantage on your first strike while outside of combat. Initiative is rolled, but you have advantage. Is it worth a cantrip? Probably not, but it is a valid use.

[SharkForce]

Yeah. The use of true strike is to make sure you don't waste leveled spells. Not the most flashy thing, but it is a decent use, especially if you upcast a spell.

It's worthless with cantrips since any situation you use it with a cantrip, you could just have casted the cantrip twice for an equal effect, but with a higher damage ceiling.

EDIT: Actually, there might be one use. Canceling disadvantage. One normal attack might be better than two attacks at disadvantage. Don't know the math on that one though, so I can't say that with certainty.

or, just cast a spell that has a saving throw attached, and ignore to-hit rolls entirely. (or take lucky and turn disadvantage into super-advantage).


My vote goes to Mordenkainen's Sword. Its main issue is that there are plenty of spells that all fall into the same category (bonus action damage), except all of those other spells do it better (more damage plus bonus perks) and come at a lower level.
All of the other spells cited at least have some use in specific circumstances and at certain levels, but Mordenkainen's Sword is only useful if you strangely avoid all of the similar, yet better spells. for its sake.

i dunno, i'm not sure there's even a niche situation where witch bolt looks good enough to use even if it didn't cost a spell slot at all.

if i had at-will mordenkainen's sword, i would at least consider using it. it isn't a terrible spell for the action economy, only for the spell slot. in contrast, something like witch bolt sucks for your action economy *and* for the spell slot. that's a whole new level of suckage not reached by mordenkainen's sword (which is still a real stinker of a spell, if only because bigby's hand is so much better... without that, it would be a slightly weaker version of spiritual weapon, which is fine because spiritual weapon accounts for about 50% of many clerics' offensive options when something is big enough to be worth using spell slots, and fills a need which wizards don't normally have :P )

[RSP]

Just to add my opinion on True Strike: you could cast it before round 1 of combat (or on round 1 when you have to move closer for gishes). That combined with the upcasts previously stated means it does have uses and probably shouldn't be in the running for "worst spell" with such promising other contenders out there (Find Traps sounds like the winner).

[Astofel]

Just use GWM + GFB, then GWM + Quickened GFB. It's like getting advantage since you make two rolls anyway, but you have the chance to hit twice instead of just once.

You have to be third level to have metamagic, and on top of all the downsides True Strike has, you could just GFB twice. This is not a use for True Strike.

You're both absolutely right, that was silly of me. I guess True Strike is back to being an almost completely useless spell that no-one should ever take. It's still not worse than Find Traps, which is a completely useless spell that no-one should ever take, especially rangers who have an incredibly limited spell selection anyway.

[some guy]

I really don't like Cloud of Daggers. I could see situations where it's useful (and it having no save is excellent). I wouldn't complain if a wizard would take it, but if bard or sorcerer would take it with their limited known spells...
It isn't the worst spell, but I really liked it in 4e, so it's more a case of disappointment.

[DrMartin]

Frostfell. Ruins all the fun by one-shotting encounters.

May I ask, where has this spell been reprinted for 5e?

re: Witch Bolt: the only redeeming quality is that the concentration effect does not count as casting a spell on following rounds, allowing for quickened spells other than cantrips while you keep force-lightning your target. Otherwise, yeah, as written it is a terrible spell.

[Beechgnome]

Re: witch bolt. I had built a character designed to maximize its effectiveness: bronze draconic sorcerer for lightning damage bonus, distant spell metamagic when I cast to double its range to 60', quickened spell to cast other non-concentration spells like blindness in subsequent rounds while I maintained the lightning connection...

...and even then I dumped it. It was just much easier to cast distant shocking grasp. I had a better chance to hit if they wore armour, I robbed them of reactions, I kept my concentration free and at higher levels I did more damage. It was no contest.

[Giant2005]

i dunno, i'm not sure there's even a niche situation where witch bolt looks good enough to use even if it didn't cost a spell slot at all.

if i had at-will mordenkainen's sword, i would at least consider using it. it isn't a terrible spell for the action economy, only for the spell slot. in contrast, something like witch bolt sucks for your action economy *and* for the spell slot. that's a whole new level of suckage not reached by mordenkainen's sword (which is still a real stinker of a spell, if only because bigby's hand is so much better... without that, it would be a slightly weaker version of spiritual weapon, which is fine because spiritual weapon accounts for about 50% of many clerics' offensive options when something is big enough to be worth using spell slots, and fills a need which wizards don't normally have :P )

Witch Bolt isn't so bad during levels 1-4. It is only after Cantrips get their second die that its worth drops off.
But there isn't any level in which using Mordenkainen's Sword is a good idea. It isn't just Bigby's or Spiritual Weapon that dominate its niche, it is also the likes of Flaming Sphere, Melf's Minute Meteors, Storm Sphere, and Dust Devil. Even summoning spells like Animate Dead, or Animate Objects could be considered to be the category of 'multi-round bonus action damage' (and do it better than Mordenkainen's Sword).

[Beechgnome]

Witch Bolt isn't so bad during levels 1-4. It is only after Cantrips get their second die that its worth drops off.

This is true. And with the exception of spells like Dissonant Whispers that have unique riders or magic missile with its autohit, you could say this about any 1st level spell that does damage: cantrips always overtake them.

I haven't had experience using it, but Prismatic Spray looks bad to me... it's a legacy spell that must have seemed cool to Gygax at the time, but it is just so fiddly and random and underwhelming I can't see ever casting it.

Anyone want to come to its defense?

[joaber]

I really hate mist of smite spells, because is exclusive for palis. Need bonus action to cast, concentration, you can lose it before hit with attack, one spell prepared and is always better to use divine smite for that spell slot (or a good spell).

[Xetheral]

I used to think True Strike, but then I thought of a situation where it's actually useful. Be a stone sorcerer with GWM, GFB and Quicken Spell. Use Quickened Spell to True Strike, giving you advantage on the GWM + GFB combo. If you're a vuman, you can do this by 2nd level.

On top of the "just GFB again" counter-argument, there is the problem that your use doesn't work in the first place, because True Strike only helps your first attack "on the next turn"... it can't help an attack made in the same turn.

[SharkForce]

Witch Bolt isn't so bad during levels 1-4. It is only after Cantrips get their second die that its worth drops off.
But there isn't any level in which using Mordenkainen's Sword is a good idea. It isn't just Bigby's or Spiritual Weapon that dominate its niche, it is also the likes of Flaming Sphere, Melf's Minute Meteors, Storm Sphere, and Dust Devil. Even summoning spells like Animate Dead, or Animate Objects could be considered to be the category of 'multi-round bonus action damage' (and do it better than Mordenkainen's Sword).

advantages of mordekainen's relative to:

Bigby's hand: sword can't be destroyed, mostly, which is super niche. i guess it also is better aganist rakshasas, but... i think that's actually even more niche than being indestructible.

flaming sphere: better damage type (won't come up often, but it can come up), attack roll vs save (there are more magic items that improve attack rolls than saves, and naturally it's better against low AC high save enemies), it can fly, it makes melee attacks (so you can autocrit held targets, knock people unconscious on the last hit, etc).

Melf's minute meteors: mostly the same as flaming sphere except the flight.

storm sphere: once placed, storm sphere is immobile. also better damage type, and melee attacks.

dust devil: does not actually do any damage at all unless the enemy stays next to it until the end of the turn. also can damage allies.

animate objects: is quite possibly one of the most powerful spells you're comparing it to, so let's be fair: animate objects is probably better than almost *any* damage spell. the main advantages, however, include: very high AC or otherwise hard-to-hit targets, the damage type (animate objects is nonmagical weapon damage) and potentially flight depending on how strict your DM is with animate objects. well, that and vulnerability to AoE damage.

animate dead: major moral concerns, in addition to the concerns of animate objects.

(i've already covered spiritual weapon, not going to do it again; spiritual weapon is definitively superior)

now, not all of those advantages will be relevant, but it *does* have them, and apart from bigby's hand which pretty much outclasses it in almost every way, except for one which will only come up relatively infrequently ime, and of course spiritual weapon (which has the disadvantage of being on a completely different spell list), Mordenkainen's sword has at least *something* significant over most of those other options. if bigby's hand wasn't around (or just didn't deal quite so much damage), i would say it has a place. not a great place, mind you... it would be a very situational spell. but at least it would be something. Mordenkainen's sword is pretty close to being *potentially* useful. witch bolt has regular threads where people try to come up with minor changes that will fix it, and it usually just winds up showing a new way for witch bolt to suck.

[famousringo]

Wow, no mention of Friends? The spell that's literally better at making enemies than friends. One minute of friendship, an eternity of hatred.

There's a joke about marriage in there somewhere, I think.

[SharkForce]

Wow, no mention of Friends? The spell that's literally better at making enemies than friends. One minute of friendship, an eternity of hatred.

There's a joke about marriage in there somewhere, I think.

it needs to be used well, but it does give advantage to intimidate checks (which you were already going to make enemies with anyways, most likely), and frequently is assumed to be possible to combine with, say, disguise self to make someone think that it was someone else that screwed them over, which potentially can make the spell even more useful.

it isn't an amazing spell. but it isn't the worst by a long shot.

[jas61292]

Wow, no mention of Friends? The spell that's literally better at making enemies than friends. One minute of friendship, an eternity of hatred.

There's a joke about marriage in there somewhere, I think.

Friends is quite useful. Just not so much in the way you would think. It gives advantage on all Charisma checks, not just ones to make friends. It's great for intimidation. They would be hostile to you anyways afterwards. Why not get free advantage?

[NNescio]

Wow, no mention of Friends? The spell that's literally better at making enemies than friends. One minute of friendship, an eternity of hatred.

There's a joke about marriage in there somewhere, I think.

It's useful for Disguise Self shenanigans. And if your DM insist on strict RAW in this case, well, it's still good for Intimidate checks, since that guy is probably going to hate you anyway. You can also provoke a fight ("He STARTED it first!" [lie]) or to get by a pesky guard or some other guy who needs convincing (again, using Disguise Self, since he still doesn't get to know who you are, even if he becomes hostile towards you "by magic".)

I mean, sure, you can have another PC Helping you as well, but most DMs I play under (and me as well) would require the helper to say something in character too, and only allowing advantage if it makes sense under those conditions (see the "Working Together" rules for ability checks)


[...]A character can only provide help if the task is one that he or she could attempt alone. For example, trying to open a lock requires proficiency with thieves’ tools, so a character who lacks that proficiency can’t help another character in that task. Moreover, a character can help only when two or more individuals working together would actually be productive. Some tasks, such as threading a needle, are no easier with help.

[famousringo]

it needs to be used well, but it does give advantage to intimidate checks (which you were already going to make enemies with anyways, most likely), and frequently is assumed to be possible to combine with, say, disguise self to make someone think that it was someone else that screwed them over, which potentially can make the spell even more useful.

it isn't an amazing spell. but it isn't the worst by a long shot.

So the best usage of Friends is to either bully somebody into submission or to pretend you're somebody else pretending to be a friend.

Now I know there's a marriage joke in there.

[NNescio]

On top of the "just GFB again" counter-argument, there is the problem that your use doesn't work in the first place, because True Strike only helps your first attack "on the next turn"... it can't help an attack made in the same turn.

Oh yes, totally missed that. Can't believe they can make True Strike even less useful. I bet the Devs got sick of everyone back in 3.5e using Quickened True Strike + Ranged Touch Attack spell or rogues and other strikers carrying Wands of True Strike everywhere because it was just so good (Lvl 1 spell, +20 to your next attack roll made before the end of your next round, no concealment miss chance, you could cast more than one levelled spell per round, etc. etc.), which is why they nerfed it into oblivion.

[Phoenix042]

True strike may be bad overall, but it's not really a contender for worst spell. It's got some use as a way to conserve spell slots as some people have already pointed out, and there's always the case of an arena style combat where you're not supposed to attack until a certain cue, but you can ready yourself first. In that case, it can give you an opening advantage, and I'd argue that while that's a niche case, it's not THAT niche; lots of people use duels and arena matches in their games at some point. Until the match begins, it's against the rules to blast your opponent with firebolts, but it's not against the rules to point your finger at him and mutter nonsense to yourself right before the gong sounds and combat commences.

In a slightly less civilized parallel, it might often be the case that some monster or threat approaches you warily, circling and sizing you up while deciding whether to attack or not. If you hurl an axe at that wolf pack, they're either going to flee or attack immediately, and you could maybe take an extra few seconds to make sure it hits.

That's one I think may even be more common. Sometimes the giant spider falls on you from the ceiling and combat starts at once, but sometimes that owlbear takes a few moment to circle before trying to rip out your entrails. I use that all the time when I want to give my players the ability to decide how the encounter will unfold.

Basically, it's useful anytime you know a fight is about to break out, you can see your target, they're within 30ft of you, and attacking them right now will have consequences that would be delayed by not attacking them yet.

Niche, yes, but not as useless as witch bolt.

The idea that a helpless enemy that can't move or retaliate in any way is worth burning that spell slot on for the extra 1 point of damage per round is... ridiculous. There is no build, setting, or adventure hook that would make witch bolt worth taking over other spells at any level.

[Maxilian]

oh yeah, that's a pretty good (awful?) one. basically gives you no useful information except that you should search for traps with the proper skills (which you already knew, because otherwise you wouldn't use the spell), and it can give you a false sense of security too.

When i say it gets my vote, its that it gets my vote as one of the wost spells

[Maxilian]

True Strike(just attack), Weird(sucky damage), Witch Bolt(most combats will be over in 3 rounds), Mordenkainen's Sword(sucky damage) or Power Word Kill(just cast Meteor Swarm)

True Stike is bad (but it have its moments, like giving you adv on your Spells that require an attack roll)

Power Word Kill is quite good, there are many mobs that would die quite easily from this or huge mobs after getting their HP reduced is quite useful (If players plan it well, it can be a great spell -Combined with spells like Polymorph makes it extremely good-)

[SharkForce]

I used to think True Strike, but then I thought of a situation where it's actually useful. Be a stone sorcerer with GWM, GFB and Quicken Spell. Use Quickened Spell to True Strike, giving you advantage on the GWM + GFB combo. If you're a vuman, you can do this by 2nd level. Granted, this is a very niche use, but a use nonetheless. As for what I think the worst spell is now, I agree with the people saying Find Traps. It'd be better if it had a non-instantaneous duration so you could walk around detecting traps, but not by much. The real question is: does the Find Traps spell detect itself?


Only if you have the PHB within LoS. And it doesn't tell you how many trap options they are, or on which page they're located on.

nope.

it only detects things that are intended to be traps. it can't even tell that there is a trap in there at all, unless we presume that the dev team put the spell in there specifically to screw us over :P (which just doesn't sound plausible).

[NNescio]

nope.

it only detects things that are intended to be traps. it can't even tell that there is a trap in there at all, unless we presume that the dev team put the spell in there specifically to screw us over :P (which just doesn't sound plausible).

Oh riiight, Monte Cook is no longer in charge.