Introducing ToM vestiges into the Radiance house Binder system

[Gobliin]

I was wondering if someone has try to use the original Vestiges from Tome of Magic into the system worked by Radiance house? I know that because of copywright issue they didn't had them to their spirit list, but I was wondering if it was balance to add them as they are.

I thought that they starless spirit, with a +10 modifier to their research difficulty since they are even harder to find then the other spirit. What do you think?

[Psyren]

That works as a quick and dirty approach. You can also come up with constellations for them.

Note that the RH system has 9 levels of spirits while ToM only has 8. You may want to decide if some of the more powerful WotC spirits should be bumped up a level.

Also, the Occultist (which you may want to rename now - "Pactmaker?") has a much better chassis than the WotC Binder, so I would use that.

[Manyasone]

And you have a much larger repertoire of spirits to choose from. I don't really get why you would want to use wotc s***...i find the grimoire of lost souls far superior for use in a pathfinder game

[digiman619]

The major problem is that the ToM ones would need to be redone to include the constellations, totem bonuses, capstone empowerments, favored allies and enemies and vestigial bond, Add to the fact that a lot of them probably wouldn't be as strong in a Pathfinder setting and they'd need dedicated rewrites to convert. Let me get homebrewing and see what I can do.

[Gobliin]

For simplicity, I would make them starless
I just want to add them to the spirit from the lost grimmoire, because I like the feel of some of them.

My main problem is the power level of the vestiges. I never actually use them. I m afraid that they would be more powerful then the spirit from the lost grimmoire. I though about increasing all their level by 1, if it balance thing up.

I also though about increasing their research dc by 10 instead of 5 for a starless spirit, since they would be more rare.

I would actually not add a vestial bond, a capstone empowerments, favored allies or a totem, to minimise the work on each vestiage. All cool down abilities would count as major abilities. I know it might be over simplistic, but the goal is to have less house rules.

[Psyren]

Some are powerful like Zceryll and might warrant a bump. But I would say for the most part the spirits are stronger. There are not many vestiges that can compete with the likes of Muse Istago, Jayna Warlock or Loh'moi, particularly at the levels you get them.

[Eldaran]

Also, the Occultist (which you may want to rename now - "Pactmaker?") has a much better chassis than the WotC Binder, so I would use that.

What the deal with that, did they rename the class due to Paizo's Occultist?

[digiman619]

What the deal with that, did they rename the class due to Paizo's Occultist?

Pretty much, yeah. As I understand it, they made a poll and that was the winner, if for no other reason that it's really unlikely that Paizo is really unlikely to make a class or archetype with that name.

[Manyasone]

Pretty much, yeah. As I understand it, they made a poll and that was the winner, if for no other reason that it's really unlikely that Paizo is really unlikely to make a class or archetype with that name.

I was a backer. They indeed made the change as to not go against Paizo