what exactly does the term gish mean?

[jdizzlean]

i see that a lot on here, but what's it refer to?

[Zanos]

Swordmage, battlecaster, etc.

Someone who uses magical abilities to augment their martial skills.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Arcane/ melee class hybrid character. Comes from the Gith language back in 2e to refer to their magic user/ fighting man characters.

[flappeercraft]

It refers to a mix of a Mundane Combatant and a Caster such as the stereotypical Wizard/Fighter/Eldritch knight or getting to stuff like Swiftblades or Abjurant champions. The term Gish derives from the Giths (so Githyanki and Githzerai) IIRC as they supposedly can use magic and fight effectively.

Edit: Ninja'd

[Thurbane]

i see that a lot on here, but what's it refer to?
..........

Some people will tell you it originated in the 1e Fiend Folio (p.43) back in 1981, but don't be deceived! (It was a term used for a 4th level Fighter/magic User Githyanki).

1920s actress Lillian Gish was not only an accomplished thespian, but also a warrior and arcanist of fearsome power! Legend says she had a pact with an ancient red dragon she used as a steed, and also a vorpal silver sword that could cut the silver cord of even mind-barred individuals!

Gaze upon her and tremble!

http://i68.tinypic.com/23hkuif.jpg

The term Gish appears in the 1E Fiend Folio when describing a raiding party of Githyanki - the Gish is a 4th level Fighter/4th level Magic User: I believe this predates the Dragon Magazine.

My scanner isn't set up right now, so I dug out the FF and took a photo:

http://i63.tinypic.com/29m7sip.jpg

Some great monsters originated (or were collected) in the 1E FF: Aarakocra, Bullywug, Crypt Thing, Death Knight, Ettercap, Githyanki, Githzerai, Grell, Huecuva, Jermaline, Kuo Toa, Son of Kyuss...

[jdizzlean]

ok, thanks :)

[Darrin]

Arcane/ melee class hybrid character. Comes from the Gith language back in 2e to refer to their magic user/ fighting man characters.

1st edition Fiend Folio, actually.

This thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?480402-Where-does-the-term-quot-Gish-quot-come-from) discusses the origin of the term and the first occurrence in print.

Briefly:

A githyanki with 4 levels of fighter and 4 levels of magic-user is a "gish". From the context it appears to be a military rank or possibly a vocation of some sort.

It's not clear if the term was coined by Charles Stross (who wrote the original article for White Dwarf) or Don Turnbull (who edited the Fiend Folio). When Charles Stross was contacted via email, he couldn't remember if he came up with the term or not.

Since then, the term has been generalized to refer to any build that deliberately mixes melee class levels with spellcaster levels with the idea of fulfilling both roles.

[weckar]

In a broader sense, it refers to any combination of martial and non-martial powers. Psionic Rogue could be seen as a Gish, as could to a degree the Cleric (War) in itself.

[Manyasone]

Pity the term 'zerth' didn't have the same popularity

[GilesTheCleric]

Pity the term 'zerth' didn't have the same popularity

It would be nice to have a term for rogue/casters. I see a lot of Cleric/Rogues, which is a bit awkward to type out and refer to. I'm game to start using the term if everyone else is. I'll add it to my terminology list (https://docs.google.com/document/d/14D5o2dCyDVgni91iuVFrs2RDRDaCD7O-dUkcO5CCIcE/edit?usp=sharing) if it gains traction.

[Thurbane]

Githyanki Gish (Fighter 4/Wizard 4)
Medium Humanoid (Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 4d10+4d4+35 (71 hp)
Initiative: +6
Speed: 30 ft.
Armor Class: 17 (+2 Dex, +1 natural, +3 armor, +1 deflection), touch 13, flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+8
Attack: Greatsword +9 melee (2d6+4/19-20) or composite longbow +9 ranged (1d8+2/x3)
Full Attack: Greatsword +9/+4 melee (2d6+4/19-20) or composite longbow +9/+4 ranged (1d8+2/x3)
Space/Reach: 5ft./5ft.
Special Attacks: Psionics, spells
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., psionics, spell resistance 13, spells
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +4, Will +6
Abilities: Str 14, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 16, Wis 8, Cha 8
Skills: Concentration +13, Jump +7, Listen +2, Spellcraft +12, Spot +1, Tumble +9
Feats: Combat ReflexesB, Improved Initiative, Improved ToughnessB, Iron Will, Power AttackB, Practiced Spellcaster, Scribe ScrollB
Environment: Astral Plane
Challenge Rating: 9
Alignment: Any evil
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +2

Combat gear: amulet of natural armor +1, bracers of armor +3, greatsword +1, masterwork composite longbow (+2 Str), ring of protection +1, spellbook, toad familiar

Wizard spells memorized (CL 8th):
0 - detect magic (x2), read magic, touch of fatigue (DC 13)
1 - enlarge person, expeditious retreat, ray of enfeeblement, shield
2 - glitterdust (DC 15), mirror image, scorching ray

Psionics (Sp, CL 8th): 3/day blur, daze (DC 9), dimension door

[Fouredged Sword]

In 3.5 is it more specifically generally used to describe a build that gains all 4 iterative attacks AND 9th level spells by 20th level.

[Coretron03]

In 3.5 is it more specifically generally used to describe a build that gains all 4 iterative attacks AND 9th level spells by 20th level.

To a degree yes but alot of classes people call gishes don't hit those standards like a duskblade or (pathfinder) magnus which are definitely "gishes" but don't reach either of those. 9th spells/ 16bab is the ideal gish though

[jmax]

To a degree yes but alot of classes people call gishes don't hit those standards like a duskblade or (pathfinder) magnus which are definitely "gishes" but don't reach either of those. 9th spells/ 16bab is the ideal gish though

I like duskblade for a gish despite the very limited spellcasting. If you're a full caster with 9th-level spells, melee combat isn't going to be the best use of your actions anyway. It's also a great way for new players to pick up a spellcasting character without being overwhelmed. It's not going to win any optimization contests, but it's fun to play if you don't desire a huge array of choices at any given time.

DictumMortuum has a great duskblade handbook that I highly recommend.

[Thurbane]

I like Suel Arcanamch.

It requires a bit more planning and optimization than Duskblade, but this handbook is fairly useful: THE SUEL ARCANAMACH HANDBOOK (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?159617)

[ShurikVch]

Monster Manual IV have Githyanki, Gish - Evoker 5/Fighter 2

Dungeon #100 have Gish Mindslayer - Githyanky-specific PrC with full BAB and 6/10 spell progression