Feats for a core-only barbarian

[blue_fenix]

So, I've played plenty of DnD before but never played a dedicated melee character before. Now I'm building a Barbarian for an ECL 5 core only game. I've already decided to go with Wood Elf (+2 str and dex, -2 int and con, plus all the other elf racial abilities) but I'm kinda lost as to what feats to choose. I know power attack + 2 handed weapons is key to doing plenty of damage, but what else should I get after that? Weapon Focus(greatsword)? Lightening Reflexes? Improved Grapple? Something else? Also, as long as I'm here, are there any really awesome non-core feats I should ask the DM for?

[Indon]

The number of outright ridiculous non-core Charge/Power Attack feats there are out there is very high. I won't touch those.

I'd recommend grabbing Improved Sunder, personally, because I always find my fighter-types breaking things.

[Skjaldbakka]

But- you're breaking the WBL if you take Improved Sunder.

[kpenguin]

Cleave+Great Cleave. Trust me on this.

[Droodle]

Power Attack and Cleave. I wouldn't go with Great Cleave since you won't be one-shotting too many ECL appropriate enemies by the time you actually qualify for the feat. Improved trip is a keeper. Disarm isn't bad if you have extra feats to blow (playing core, you just might). Standstill can be useful for a reach fighter and Reckless offense (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#recklessOffense) is one of the best feats available for a core only power attacker. While rather situational, improved grapple can be useful although you probably won't need the feat to grapple wizards or monks since the Barb is a full BAB class...and the feat probably won't help you very much against grappling monsters since their grapple checks are usually so much better than yours even with the feat.

[Zherog]

Cleave isn't bad; Great Cleave is most often a poor investment in a feat, unless your DM regularly sends your group up against a lot of weaker opponents at one time. That is, if you face the evil, vile necromancer and his body guard as a typical challenge, Great Cleave isn't for you. If you face a pack of 20 goblins on a regular basis, Great Cleave can, in fact, rock the house.

Weapon Focus is only worthwhile if you intend to always use one weapon. If you're always going to use a greatsword, WF is good at low levels (but begins to lose impact as you gain levels). If you intend to grab up the best two-handed weapon you can find at any given time, avoid Weapon Focus and any other weapon specific feats, such as Improved Critical.

Other core only feats, assuming you're going straight barbarian, that I find worthwhile:

Iron Will I can deal with failing a Reflex save - I have the hit points to soak the damage. But failing a Will save likely means you're attack your friends.

Improved Bull Rush This can be useful to have, but isn't a priority. Bull rushing can be a tool to help protect your weaker party members, such as the wizard, and it can also be used to force your opponent to provoke attacks of opportunity, which can be useful if your group sets things up correctly.

Improved Initiative In my opinion, going before your enemy is a huge tactical advantage.

And, um... Wow. Core feats blow chunks for a barbarian. I don't see anything else in the SRD worth serious consideration... Of course, there's always Leadership - the most powerful feat in the game.

[Quietus]

In core only, I'd look at what you want to do - if you find yourself against fair numbers of enemies on a regular basis, cleave would definately be among my list of feats to pick up. If your DM enjoys location-based battles where you can use terrain to your advantage, Improved Bull Rush could be nice to pick up. Improved Sunder is pretty limited-use, since you'll either be fighting mooks who you might as well hit directly, or fighting guys who will likely have magical weapons that you don't want to break.

If you have the int and feats to spare, combat expertise/improved trip is nice to have, because you'll have a nice brutish strength to use with it.

Outside of those, in core, I'm fond of Iron Will and Improved Initiative.

[lord_khaine]

but leadership requires you to be lv 6 :smalltongue:

i would recomend taking power attack and improved iniative, going first is good, and so are hitting for a truckload of damage during a rage.

[Indon]

But- you're breaking the WBL if you take Improved Sunder.

Sunder is for more than breaking loot, even in combat. Spell component pouches and holy symbols are just one example of the endless possibilities of the ability to break things.

[Wolfwood2]

With +2 to dexterity, I'm guessing you'll have a decent dex. I'm also guessing your intelligence isn't going to be good enough for anything in the Expertise chain.

Power Attack, Cleave, Quick Draw, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Sunder, Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative

In that order.

There, that takes you through 18th level and gives you some nice combat options.

[Zherog]

but leadership requires you to be lv 6 :smalltongue:

Yes. And? He didn't ask for feats to take at first level. He asked for recommendations for feats.

On Improved Sunder... one use of this feat that often gets overlooked (and the same goes for Improved Disarm, though that'll require you to get a 13+ Int): You can sunder (or disarm0 things such as holy symbols and spell component pouches. Removing those things often - but not always - makes spellcasters a much less scary encounter.


Power Attack, Cleave, Quick Draw, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Sunder, Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative

In that order.

There, that takes you through 18th level and gives you some nice combat options.

I don't see Quickdraw as a very good choice for any character, with the exception of the "knife thrower" style builds. In my experience, the number of times you'll use the feat is pretty low. You can already draw a weapon as part of your movement, so it's really only useful for those times you could make your attacks without moving.

[Draz74]

I think grappling is indeed the most effective way for a Core-only Barbarian to head. Magical spiked armor (maybe even with the Vicious property, if you have a very high Con score and a good healer-Cleric in the party). Massive Strength with Rage. :smallsmile:

So I'd say:
- Power Attack
- Cleave
- Improved Initiative
- Iron Will
- Improved Unarmed Strike -> Improved Grapple
- Leadership (if allowed)

Combat reflexes is a good feat, but only if you already have a pretty good Dex score; don't bother (on this build) pumping up your Dex just for that. But if your Dex is already at least 16, then yeah, get a reach weapon (to go with your armor spikes) and Combat Reflexes.

[BardicDuelist]

Just a question: Wood elves aren't core, correct?

[mostlyharmful]

It may not be combat orientated :smallredface: but Track is an almost essential barbarian feat, lets you do most of what a ranger can and still rock in combat. If you're having plenty of wilderness, want to be useful outside combat and even want your woodelf to seem realistic go for it.

[Zherog]

Just a question: Wood elves aren't core, correct?

Wood elves in the SRD (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/theraven_stephenh/monsters/ELF.html) (scroll to the bottom, under the variants)

I believe you can find the same stuff in the Monster Manual.

[blue_fenix]

Thanks for all the advice. Based on this, I'll probably go power attack and track (for flavor, RP, and non-combat uses) to begin with, then take cleave at 6 and pick between the other suggestions later on.

[Zherog]

Thanks for all the advice. Based on this, I'll probably go power attack and track (for flavor, RP, and non-combat uses) to begin with, then take cleave at 6 and pick between the other suggestions later on.

As an alternative to that, you could multiclass with one level of ranger. It'll do you a few things:

You'll get Track for free, which allows you to save a feat slot
You'll get more skills for that level, but they'll maintain the same "feel"
Favored Enemy is a nice bonus, and it's generally easy to work it into a character's background
Wild empathy, while often not useful, is a nice "flavor" ability for a woodsman
You'll gain the ability to use cure wands, which is always useful (though not while raging, of course)


As a wood elf, ranger is your favored class; so you don't run the risk of any multiclassing XP penalties either.

[blue_fenix]

The one level ranger dip would actually be pretty darn good mechanically, the only problem is that my character has a specific back story of resenting the more "sophisticated" rogues, fighters, and rangers from his home town.

[Zherog]

Frankly, in my opinion, that doesn't preclude you from having a level in ranger.

[Everyman]

Agreed. In fact, rangers are on of the few classes that can go either wild or civilized without sounding odd.

For what you're trying to do, Barbarian X / Ranger 1 wouldn't be a bad way to go. Of course, if you multiclass that way, I would HIGHLY suggest Iron Will, to make up for your weakened Will save.

[Zherog]

As I said previously, I highly recommend Iron Will regardless. Being the target of dominate person and forced to attack your friends is a sucky thing...

[Person_Man]

Sadly, Core only melee builds have very few options available to them. The best Core only melee attack combo uses the mounted combat tree.

Power Attack + Spirited Charge with a lance two handed from the back of a mount.

Deals: {3*(1d8+[Str*1.5]+[2*BAB]+magic)}+extra dice of damage (such as extra damage from a Flaming Weapon or Sneak Attack). Four feats, which is a reasonable number for a low level build.

Works best with Smite Evil, but also fun with Rage, Favored Enemy, and Cleave. If you're worried about maneuvering a large horse in dungeons, be a Halfling and ride a medium mount, sacrificing a little damage but gaining the ability to go anywhere mounted, plus a bonus to AC, To-Hit, and Saves. Lances are also reach weapons, which will give you some battlefield control/defense.

If you decide to go with TWF instead, pick up Improved Unarmed Strike, and punch people for your offhand attack. Power Attack applies to unarmed strikes and other natural weapons, but not regular light weapons.