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Fixer
2007-07-25, 10:41 AM
Apparently the guy who was running Feezul and Diotima (sig) decided he lost control of the last game. Despite the fact it was his brother's character that threw a wrench in the nuclear reactor (so to speak) he has decided he wants to build all the characters and let us choose which ones to play.

This guy is new to the role of GM but he's been a player for years. I have been GMing since the original red paperback so I am trying REALLY hard not to pull my hair out. Character creation is the part I enjoy most!

How would you deal with such a GM?

(and getting another one isn't really an option)

Nevar
2007-07-25, 10:47 AM
Find out how the rest of the group feels about it and if the group doesn't like it let the GM know and that you all would perfer to create your own characters.

Manave_E_Sulanul
2007-07-25, 10:50 AM
I'd get together with your other players and if they are in agreement with you talk to your DM as a group about how that is sooo wholly uncool.

If he rejects your pleas as a group I would seriously consider just not playing, because these sort of problems always seem to come in multiples. (At least, when I encounter them. First they want to decide your character...next its your actions...then they start rolling almost all checks for you, without you seeing...)

Quietus
2007-07-25, 10:52 AM
Do you trust the guy to create characters that'll work into a story you enjoy? Or do you suspect he's trying to turn you all into bit characters in a story he's writing that he'll railroad you through? The answer that question would be what determines my response.

If you trust him to put together a good story, and the other players are willing to give it a shot, I'd say give it a try for two or three sessions, and see how it goes. It might not be as bad as you think! It'll help tie the characters more firmly into the world, certainly, and if the DM is good at what he does, it should be a fun game despite you not having created the character.

If you don't, then just be firm with him, and tell him you aren't comfortable playing a character you didn't create. You don't HAVE to play in any particular game, after all.

Perhaps if you talk to him you can work out a compromise of sorts - see if you can convince him to make a character that fits a general idea you have, like "trick fighter human", "stealthy pickpocket rogue", or whatever, so that he can still build the character to fit the way he'd like, but you still get the flavor of character you'd like.

ALOR
2007-07-25, 10:54 AM
Find out how the rest of the group feels about it and if the group doesn't like it let the GM know and that you all would perfer to create your own characters.

i agree 100%. maybe the rest of your group doesn't mind getting pre gen's. Since this guy is a new gm suggest to him that he limit your options or disalow things he doesn't want in his game.
happy gaming

nerulean
2007-07-25, 11:05 AM
If the reason you don't like this is because you enjoy the process of making characters rather than an objection to playing a pre-made character, perhaps you can offer to help make the characters, or at least yours, with the DM. If you're completely transparent with what your characters' abilities and power levels are then a reasonable person should have no problem with letting you do this, and might even appreciate the assistance.

Keld Denar
2007-07-25, 11:07 AM
Then again, it can be a fun and interesting challenge. Think of it like a method actor given a particular framework to work with, but free to develope his own minor quirks. I assume the DM is mostly going to give you mechanics, and you will provide all the fluff that goes with it. This is all good as long as the characters he provides aren't totally gimped (ie, full BAB class w/o Power Attack, or using Monkey Grip, or one of the other cardinal sins universally understood and recognized on this board)

If there is a certain role you'd like to play (meatshield, caster, healer, skillsguy, etc) ask your DM if he'd make you one of that type if it fits in the party he has thought out. See if you can get your character at least a week before the game. This will let you get a grip of his abilities and how to facilitate them into his personality. Also see if your DM will allow a little wiggle room within the character if you feel you need it. Consider 1-2 small changes you might like to see made to your character, and address them to the DM in a polite manner a couple days prior to the game. This will allow you a small degree of customization if the character is not up to your standards.

An experience I had with this, I played part of the City of the Spider Queen at Gencon back in 2001 (or was it 01?) and the 6 players sat down and were given premade 8-9th level characters to play. All were halflings, gnomes, and dwarves. It was one of the most memorable events of the whole Gencon experience because we took what we had, and ran away with it. We spent almost as much time laughing at our characters antics as we did slaying evil spider demons. To this day, I still remember the feralish badger-raised gnomish barbarian character I played. Good times.

Finally, have fun. Its a game, games are fun. You'd sometimes be suprised that something can actually be fun after you've tried it once or twice. If you aren't having fun, vote with your feet.

valadil
2007-07-25, 11:09 AM
If done well, premade characters have a lot of potential. The advantage is that the GM knows the characters and can write plot around them in advance. I find that games with cast characters often end up being way more story driven than a standard game. It's also fun to try roleplaying a character that you wouldn't have thought of yourself.

I think this only works in a game with a defined beginning, middle, and end. If you're going to be continuing the character for several years you probably want to make it your own character. Games like this are best done in fewer than 10 sessions.

Casting needs to be taken into consideration. Giving someone a character that doesn't fit will ruin the game for them. I think the GM should either ask what sort of character you want to play or come up with twice as many characters as you have players, summarize the characters for everyone, and let you pick and choose who plays who. If the game is as story driven as I suggested in the first paragraph, the extras will be NPCs.

If a game like this doesn't interest you, you probably shouldn't play in it.

ChrisMcDee
2007-07-25, 11:09 AM
While I think there's merit in the idea of having set characters like this I think the DM's going about it the wrong way. Something like this should only be done with the consent of the players.

What I'd suggest for this situation is have the DM create the character with the player so he can speak up if he feels there's anything innapropriate about the character. Hey, it's likely you'll even end up with better (not necessarily more powerful) characters if player and DM work together on them :smallsmile:

CASTLEMIKE
2007-07-25, 11:31 AM
DMing is generally more work than playing.

He might just be tweaking up an older game with pregenerated PCs to 3.5 or he wants to limit things to the basics like core rule books or things he knows well.

If you talk to him and stick to his limitations/guidelines he will probably be amenable to letting you build your PC.

Matthew
2007-07-25, 11:38 AM
If I were you, I would give it a go. If it doesn't work out, then you will have some basis on which to make an argument against this policy in the future. It sounds unlikely that these are Characters you are going to be stuck with for a protracted length of time anyway.

Fixer
2007-07-25, 11:44 AM
He is apparently making these characters himself. As a player his characters were... not terribly efficient. They usually did one thing pretty well (80% effective) and a lot of other things pretty badly (35% effective). I generally go for a more even spread (most things 70% effective) or more optimized (one thing 95% effective, remainder 50% effective).

I discussed with him about just limiting the books we use to generate our characters but I don't think he was listening at that point. I would have even suggest point-buy to make sure everyone was equal starting out but he had to go.

Part of the problem stemmed from the fact that the last party had one bad element in it that refused to act as part of a team. He believes this will be solved by him creating the PCs as members of a pre-existing team and preventing conflicts. I tried to tell him that it was player error and not character error that caused the last schism but, again, I do not believe he was listening to me.

I will give him a chance, of course, because we're old friends and he is TRYING to make this work. I only hope his brother doesn't commit another critical failure in judgement like the last time (i.e. making a deliberate effort to going to the BBEG early and telling him everything the party knows so he personally survives the encounter). I will get very upset and stop playing with both of them if things fall apart due to his brother and the brother tries blaming everyone else again.

mostlyharmful
2007-07-25, 11:54 AM
Might be an idea to create the fluff and ask him to write it up into a PC, if he handles the crunch he'll still be able to nay-say over the top combos while you still get to play the character and team-position you want.

also, if he thinks handing the players prewritten sheets will stop problem players from running amok across his beautifully crafted world he's in for a nasty shock.

Kiero
2007-07-25, 04:57 PM
Provided it's done upfront, and everyone can agree to it, I see nothing wrong with a game which uses pregens.

My own preference for such a game would be to ensure there are more choices than players (ideally twice as many), and perhaps leave the detailed personalisation to players. By that I'm referring to character's name, gender and backstory.

ChrisMcDee
2007-07-25, 05:16 PM
Might be an idea to create the fluff and ask him to write it up into a PC, if he handles the crunch he'll still be able to nay-say over the top combos while you still get to play the character and team-position you want.
Call me crazy but I really like the sound of this approach... I don't think any players would though! It'd be useful if playing with brand new players, at the very least.

BardicDuelist
2007-07-25, 05:50 PM
I have done the "give me a story and I will make the character" thing with new players. I also walk them through what I am doing.

But, if somone would make a character for me (now that I know the rules) I would leave.

If the DM wants to put limit what you can do, ask him to put restrictions on what things are allowed (like no Spike Chain killer combo, or Alter Self or Shivering Touch cheese). If he doesn't see this as a happy medium, ask if you can DM an adventure. Then after the adventure, show him how you handeled the possibly game breaking things that the players did.

Also, have him start at first level if he is not allready doing so. That way he can see what you have when you level up and can plan accordingly.

Again, he does not like these mediums, leave. Play in a PbP game or see if you can just DM (DMing is more fun that not playing at all, even if you prefer to play).

Saph
2007-07-25, 05:59 PM
It REALLY depends on what this DM is like at making characters. Pregens can be a lot of fun providing they're well-made. Pregens that are badly made, mechanically incompetent, or just boring are a nightmare to play. I've heard and played through some real horror stories involving pregen characters.

A much better approach, IMO, is to have modifyable pregen characters. The DM makes them, but the players can change bits of them that they don't like, as long as they keep the basic framework. I've seen some great long-term characters come out of these.

- Saph

Pronounceable
2007-07-25, 06:21 PM
I always generate my players' characters myself. It works well. Player "creates the fluff and ask me to write it up into a PC" as said above, and I do. They start integrated into the story and are MUCH easier to DM.

But my games are always one shots. It may not work that well in a long campaign. And I also don't DnD, things are much easier in a fluff heavy game. So one can say this fits perfectly into a certain gaming style. It might fit other styles too. You should try it.

However I don't think this is the real issue here. No amount of DM interference can save the game from a nasty player. This is a strictly out of game problem, you should try to talk some sense into this player. If that fails, try to have your DM rein him, which might be difficult to impossible. Because this game will fall apart if that player doesn't behave, no matter what DM does.

skywalker
2007-07-25, 09:20 PM
Yeah, I also don't think that this will solve the DM's problem. You can f-up a campaign with a pre-gen just as easily as with your own character(maybe not as easily if the pre-gen is mute... :smallsmile: )

I also think creating the character is one of the most fun parts of the game. Partially because I always roll better stats than anyone will pre-gen, but also because I know exactly what my character is capable of, etc.

My opinion is to try to explain to him that it's not about character creation, it's about his brother being difficult. If he can't understand that, then I would stop gaming with him(although, as you've said, he's an old friend, and it might not be that easy...)