Best Spells for enemies, villains, and NPCs?

[gfishfunk]

What are the best 5e works for enemies to use?

I'm wondering what people find flavorful, not trying to wreck the party.

Any type of enemy or potential adversary is fair game, from the weakest minion to the baddest bad guy, and the friendliest shopkeeper (to name a few).

[Ninja_Prawn]

Hmm. A lot of spells that make little sense for PCs are great for NPCs, like Illusory Script, Nystul's Magic Aura, Mending, Detect Poison and Disease... also Glyph of Warding for obvious reasons.

[Specter]

If the enemy wins initiative in the first round, Mislead.

He seems to prepare an action, then when someone takes an offensive action the illusion takes it with no damage to itself. Then he comes out of thin air to reveal himself in an advantageous position/away from melee reach.

[MrStabby]

For fun and excitement I recommend fireball and similar.

1) It damages a lot of people without picking on one individual. The party gets to experience a more dangerous fight with people low on HP but without making players sit out the fight due to failed saved or unconsciousness.

2) It provides an incentive to break defensive formations. Closed formations at the front stopping enemies getting to the back lines whilst still being close enough to help is likely why the whole party got hit in the first place. Now everyone spreads out and there is a different dynamic as those on the edge can get picked off and the paladin's aura becomes less useful.

3) Its iconic. The best way to show that the bad guy just wants to see the world burn is to have him make the world burn and watch.

4) It is fire damage. This means that you can make tactically more complex encounters as PCs submerge themselves in nearby water to hide from the fire mage and so on.

5) Facing fireball is a sign of having leveled up. Welcome to the bigtime.

[busterswd]

Actually came in this thread specifically to say "not Fireball at 5", funny considering the post above.

It's just really, really strong for its level, and it has the potential to TPK a party with a slightly above average roll. It's also got a HUGE AoE and range, so unless your party is spread out over 50 feet (which means it's a lot less likely your party is going to be able to support each other well), you're going to hit the majority of the party. Level 5 party members will have about 10 + 8 + 20 = 38 HP, assuming they put 14 into Con. Without the Con, they'll have 28 HP. Fireball does 24 on average, 48 max. Yes, there's a dex save, but one decent damage roll, and a few failed dex saves later, and a chunk of the party is bleeding out in one action. Even if it doesn't wipe the party in one go, the party has lost half its health in one turn, and potentially another half with another Fireball.

The alternative is that the wizard gets shut down before casting; it's just way too polarized.

In general, I'd avoid spells that are succeed or die, and I'd only use actiona denial effects (Counterspell, Hold Person, Dominate, etc.) on parties that are a little more experienced. Having an enemy deny you your actions can be a frustrating way to spend a battle if you're still learning the system.

[MrStabby]

Actually came in this thread specifically to say "not Fireball at 5", funny considering the post above.
So I can't persuade you? Not even a little bit?



It's just really, really strong for its level, and it has the potential to TPK a party with a slightly above average roll. It's also got a HUGE AoE and range, so unless your party is spread out over 50 feet (which means it's a lot less likely your party is going to be able to support each other well), you're going to hit the majority of the party. Level 5 party members will have about 10 + 8 + 20 = 38 HP, assuming they put 14 into Con. Without the Con, they'll have 28 HP. Fireball does 24 on average, 48 max. Yes, there's a dex save, but one decent damage roll, and a few failed dex saves later, and a chunk of the party is bleeding out in one action. Even if it doesn't wipe the party in one go, the party has lost half its health in one turn, and potentially another half with another Fireball.

Don't you find this makes an exciting fight? OK I wasn't saying that the party faces it at level 5, but still pretty early is fine. I think a party on the edge knowing they need their attacks to connect, fearing the next spell and so on is tense and fun.

[gfishfunk]

Actually came in this thread specifically to say "not Fireball at 5", funny considering the post above.

It's just really, really strong for its level, and it has the potential to TPK a party with a slightly above average roll. It's also got a HUGE AoE and range, so unless your party is spread out over 50 feet (which means it's a lot less likely your party is going to be able to support each other well), you're going to hit the majority of the party. Level 5 party members will have about 10 + 8 + 20 = 38 HP, assuming they put 14 into Con. Without the Con, they'll have 28 HP. Fireball does 24 on average, 48 max. Yes, there's a dex save, but one decent damage roll, and a few failed dex saves later, and a chunk of the party is bleeding out in one action. Even if it doesn't wipe the party in one go, the party has lost half its health in one turn, and potentially another half with another Fireball.

The alternative is that the wizard gets shut down before casting; it's just way too polarized.

In general, I'd avoid spells that are succeed or die, and I'd only use actiona denial effects (Counterspell, Hold Person, Dominate, etc.) on parties that are a little more experienced. Having an enemy deny you your actions can be a frustrating way to spend a battle if you're still learning the system.

I agree on most accounts. I personally tinker with spells after checking damage output and I love using AoE effects for the reason stated above. I doubt I would use it on a level 5 party, but maybe n a level 7 or 8...

Also agreed on save-or-suck effects. They are valid, but frustrating.

I was actually thinking Witchbolt would be pretty good.

Thorn Whip for annoying controller-types.

Spike Growth when NOT paired with Thorn Whip. Tree growth sounds promising.

Crusader's Mantle could be cool.

EDIT: and Bane. Bane is much better than most save-or-suck effects because you can still function, make plans, and do stuff - the characters are just worse at it.

[busterswd]

So I can't persuade you? Not even a little bit?

Well, that's the beauty of the internet. People don't have to be in agreement over things. :smalltongue:

More directly, no, I find a few of your arguments flawed, and we've also probably got inherently different DMing styles.


Don't you find this makes an exciting fight? OK I wasn't saying that the party faces it at level 5, but still pretty early is fine. I think a party on the edge knowing they need their attacks to connect, fearing the next spell and so on is tense and fun.

Fireball has the same problem that combat at level 1 has, which is swinginess; either you dominate the wizard before they cast, or your entire party is at risk of death. There's no real middle ground. From a philisophical point of view, yes, dangerous AoE can lead to better tactical decisions and more involved fights. From a pure numbers point of view, Fireball is overtuned when it comes into play, and there's very little counterplay to it.

When it works out, you have a dramatic fight that the party barely ekes by. Great. But when it doesn't (and the problem is this situation is far too likely for my tastes), the campaign is over, and all because of a couple of failed saves and one lucky damage roll.

[BW022]

My guesses would be non-combat spells.

A bard or wizard with clairvoyance would be good. Have them spy on the party repeatedly, know what they know, and use that information to always be "one-step ahead" of the party. Familiars might be able to do the same thing.

Lots of charms and illusions used indirectly against the party can be good. Use invisibly steal something from a guard and plant it on the PCs. Disguise yourself as a PC and go bad mouthing a local group of dock workers, then send a note to the PCs to meet them in a bar where the workers hang out. Illusions can also be annoying.

For combat, darkness, fog cloud, etc. can be annoying -- especially if the NPC keeps running. Teleport or dimension door can drive a party nuts -- allowing the NPC to fight the party repeatedly and still always manage to get away. Fly, polymorph, water breathing, etc. can also often have similar effects if the bad guy can keep getting away.

[Flashy]

Phantasmal Force can be amusing, though you have to be careful about how you describe what's happening.

[RickAllison]

Phantasmal Force can be amusing, though you have to be careful about how you describe what's happening.

One of my favorite uses for this is kidnapping a love interest, family member, or other beloved NPC and having Phantasmal Force be a "trap" be a barbed chain that can keep the person from being crushed. Do they chance that it is just an illusion? Or do they keep the one they love safe?

[Sir cryosin]

I like using hold person on my groups barbarian and watch the heavy armor fighter and cleric/wizard. Try and cover for the down party member. They find it very challenging when one out of a 3 person party is down like that. But as soon she breaks the hold person. She starts recking things. I don't think I have gotten her to half HP yet oh they lv 4 right now. Also have a caster cast warding bond on the Bruiser type then put them self in a safe bubble and watch the Bruiser reck stuff.

So my list is hold person, warding bond, fog cloud, conjure animals a few giant owls, slow, fire shield. Just to name a few.

[retaliation08]

I think Contagion is an excellent spell for an NPC or enemy to cast on a party. Even after the battle, the party member can reel from the effects of the spell for up to 7 days, which can lead to further interesting combat and RP situations for several sessions as the PC deals with the disease or searches for a cure.

[MrStabby]

I think an honourable mention should go to gate for high level play. In the middle of an otherwise quiet day an antagonist yanks one of them into another plane - give a chance for the other PCs to also run through the portal.

As a twist, it could also be used as a way to summon extraplanar heroes to your aid (the PCs being the heroes). Somewhat rude without a prior sending of course.

[Leith]

Hold person and the like have a built-in weakness which makes them workable for this: concentration. The party has the option to help their disabled comrade by battering the bad guy who cast the spell.
Also I think fireball is fine for a solo at level 5 cause you'll probably only get one before the baddie gets creamed.

[RickAllison]

Clone: They legitimately won't die! Though killing them once means they can't freely engage in battle again for 120 days, so it isn't a total-BS spell to use.

Nystul's Magic Aura: Parties love Detect Magic. Ritual casting, the Warlock invocation, and even spending spell slots on it. It is a very useful spell and players are generally pretty good at interpreting what spells are in play by knowing the school of magic used, but even just knowing something is magical is a great boon! Except when this spell is used. That flying broom? Looks like an ordinary broom under Detect Magic. That ring that was the centerpiece of a glorious treasure room? Not only is it not magical, but it isn't even gold. It's worthless.

Dream: Want to mess with a party? Send divine messages to them, or demonic ones. Keep the wizard from getting a benefit from his long rest. Quite evil to use. Even just using it to taunt the party and communicate without risk is a great benefit.

[StorytellerHero]

Silence is an excellent spell for committing murders in the night.

[Citan]

Hi!

I'd say it depends on level and party composition.
In general, I tend to avoid any AOE before the party is at least level 4-5, unless I'm pretty sure the party "as a whole" can still win the fight, OR they just acted too stupidly for their own good (such as repeatedly provoking a powerful Wizard).

I use non-combat spells scarcely to try and throw party off a lead when I see that players are intelligent enough to really exploit all of their characters (like always double-checking the veracity of an information of the authenticity of a paper).

In fight, I tend to use spells one level lower than the ones party has access to, unless it's the definitive big fight.

Golden rules of mine.
For players not experienced with DD5, start easy: only one save or suck spell targeting a single player per fight: enough to give them some frights (like Silencing the area from where they wanted to unleash spells, or Holding their main damage dealer) while still giving them a "way out".

Once party has enough HP or healing methods to survive a max damage Fireball, start using it (usually party level 7).

Then up your game by experimenting new spells regularly.
After party level 10, throw the rein away: normally, they experienced all kinds of nasty effects and also have enough spells/features to contend with most things.

Of course, this varies very much depending on party composition: a full martial party would be much more vulnerable to save or suck spells and long-term effects than a party having a full-blown Paladin, a Lore Bard with Inspiring Leader and a Life Cleric for example. ^^

In short: just think beforehand about how much any spell could end in a TPK, and avoid any of such spells...
- in any case, before party level 4-5
- in general, unless it's the fight against your BBEG or you feel the party really needs to face harsh consequences for a sequence of "bad" decisions.
Also, favor spells that are coherent with settings or creatures and give a chance to party to get a hint at what they will be facing (IF they try to get it).

As for (some of) my favorites: Earth Tremor, Blindness, Levitate, Plant Growth, Walls, Slow (VERY nasty), Bigby's Hand, Fireball, Bestow Curse, Telekinesis, Watery Sphere in combat.
Outside: Detect Thoughts, Animal Friendship, Comprehend Languages, Augury (to try and limit my own metagaming as a DM by restraining some NPC's course of actions to the result/requirement of those spells), Invisibility, Disguise Self and Gaseous Form for my "spys", some Teleportation Circle. ;)
Unless very specific context (such as very high level campaign), no use of >=6th level spell.